All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg - E34: Wuhan lab leak theory, India's 'traceability' law, Coinbase's fact check, media consolidation & more

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Okay, so Jason you’re gonna send a zoom link great. I’m gonna make love to not that would take 70 minutes

And then I’m gonna stretch and shower

I’ll be ready at 115. Okay. Awesome. Thanks. I just puked in my coffee a little bit, but okay

It’s just that he does he gets seconds and minutes mixed up, you know

To the all-in podcast. We got a cold open. Somebody’s gonna be a highlight. That’s

Cold open that should be the cold open

My god, by the way, that’s all right these seconds includes trim up brushing his teeth

I

Hey everybody, hey everybody it is another edition episode 34 of the all-in podcast with us today

David Friedberg the Queen of quinoa the science

sorcerer of the pod Rain Man David Sachs hot off his 60th birthday bash in Los Angeles

Sorry, sorry that was just going by me his looks and the dictator

Polly hop atia fresh off of writing editorials about himself in Bloomberg. Congratulations everybody

Thank you. Thank you. Give yourself a pat on the back for that exceptional

Yeah, free burgers know my favorite bestie because he actually showed up my birthday party and like you guys

Oh, I’m sorry, David David. How do you expect people to react in 24 hours to 72 hours city?

Yeah, it was a surprise. It was a surprise birthday surprise to the gas

It was a surprise to all the invitees as well. Let me tell you guys what you missed out on

Okay. All right. Wait, let’s give background sacks is now

49 50 years old

A last-minute birthday party after I bought tickets to the Knicks in and the Nets and invited family members

Go ahead and now we’re the bad guys. We fly down for the birthday

They you know, they shuttle you on the cars from the plane to the to the house. We get to the house long driveway

There’s like dudes making like watermelon tequila beverages while you hang out and wait

There’s some dude from America’s Got Talent playing the guitar or playing the violin in the driveway

The bathrooms are nicer than the bathrooms. I have at home, you know, these be porta potties. They rented in the driveway

And you know, we’re all waiting. Of course sacks is late two and a half hours to his own party

We’re all hanging out and starving

But then we go into the party sit down for dinner and then who shows up as our you know dinner experience

It’s the guy that won America’s I American Idol two nights before

So no one knows who this guy is except 17 year old girls and myself. So I hop out of my seat

I’m like, oh my god, it’s that guy from American Idol

I had to rush into the backstage to get a photo with him, you know, it sacks his garage

And then they have like coolio shows up

So we’re like sitting down to dinner for course to all of a sudden pop comes out of the woodwork coolio

I lose my shit. I run up on the

The dance floor. I grew up coolio like it’s like high school jams, man

I mean that’s like in the car cruising and at this point, I’m like seven tequila watermelon tequilas in

Coolio I think we all thought I was sacks, you know, cuz he’s like, yeah, he’s like, oh to South African Jews

You guys all look the same coolio comes up starts high-fiving me and hugging me and I’m like, what’s up coolio?

Oh my god, this is like a dream come true

He’s like hugging me. His face is right next to my face

I didn’t know what to say and I like I’m I’ve had a little bit of tequila and I whisper in coolio’s ear

I’m like, oh no, I appreciate I appreciate you

I think I saw Freeberg throw his panties on stage to

Wow, what a nerd

Can I go back to the part where you said that you were dancing and instantly the image I had was Julius Louis Dreyfus

We have to find that security footage

Mark Mark McGrath from Sugar Ray performing and he had that dude from cool in the gang performing

I’m the game showed up to give sacks a birthday wish. What are the game the rapper the game the game came?

Yeah, the game I was just to do a movie together like 15 years ago and you know, I never panned out

But he still remembered me and he came by to say hi on my birthday. It was pretty incredible. Very nice

That’s have you guys ever met sacks as parents? Yeah, of course. I just 40th. Yeah, they’re so nice

Like they’re so nice. We spent so much time with them. We’ll love hanging out with them

It was a really really cool party. I’m sorry. We missed it 72 hours is generally a

Shorter window than most out of city parties, but I have a better excuse

I had a corporate offsite for my team. So I apologize sexy. That’s okay. We missed you guys. It was really fun

I can’t wait

Invite for a party you definitely want to

Throw a party. She does. She knows how to throw a party. You know, it’s how to make it. So, how does it feel being?

this old and just

Looking so exhausted David Thomas

Exhausted Jake aren’t you turning 50 this summer? I was I was

50 in November I did. Yeah, I was in quarantine. So we’re gonna have to have like a post. How heavy is that?

Give or take

It wasn’t actually super heavy for me. I mean, I think just you do think about hey, we’re counting down

It’s the back nine. You want to make good use of the time you have left?

And so yeah, of course, it’s something where you’re gonna consider, you know your life, of course

Yeah, and just make sure you make good use of the time that you have here

Yeah, I think 40 was just a party but 50 feels a little bit heavy. It’ll still be a great party

But it does feel a little bit

Metaphysical I guess yeah

Metaphysical right now

Okay, listen we didn’t get together on Friday, but here we are recording on a Saturday and

Lots of stuff going on the thing. I think I’m most interested in hearing from

Friedberg about is the lab leak theory and I think that this touches on a little bit of the

politicization of

Science I guess we there’s a lab in Wuhan. I think it’s more Trump derangement syndrome

It didn’t allow us to see the forest from the trees and the same words just said by a different president all of a sudden

invokes a an investigation

yeah, so I mean there is a

Kovat laboratory in Wuhan. It is the only one in China and that’s where the virology labs where they study viruses

Yes, but specifically they’ve studied kovat viruses

They have yeah, that’s I mean, that’s a big class of virus

So and it’s the only one in China and it’s funded by America and China and the who?

The institute of virology. I mean this is this is I mean, this is a

China Institute of virology was posting job

wrecks two years ago for

specifically for researchers of bat viruses

We know they were studying bat viruses at this place and we want just happens to be the place

Where a novel coronavirus that seems derived from a bat virus, you know, it like emerges

I mean, what are the odds right? I mean, this was such an obvious

theory the idea that

You know kovat might have leaked from from this particular lab and yet we were forbidden

From talking about it, I guess till Donald Trump was out of office

I mean, I think there’s really two stories here. One is Chinese culpability, you know in in the spread of the virus

The other one is the media story. Why were we not allowed to have this discussion? Why did the media?

Brand anybody who discussed this leak theory as being some sort of conspiracy theorist or a racist

Why were big tech companies censoring or removing any user-generated content from their sites that were putting forward this theory?

You know, why was the media and big tech doing this?

I mean is it somehow I can I can tell you but but somehow they were telling us it was more racist

To talk about a lab accident then to David because the person who could have explained it in a de-escalated factual way

Chose to escalate it and be emotional and superficial and that was Donald Trump

And so I I don’t I don’t think that you could point to us and say we could have changed how the narrative is

Exploited all of us are just normal average people on the ground

but there probably is

Sort of you know a hierarchy of like information and there probably isn’t a single individual

individual beyond the president that who has access to more information and

So if he was if he was just more moderate and normal and basically said hey guys

there is a legitimate risk that we need to investigate because

Fast forward basically 18 months later and this president who is moderate you can like him or not like him

But he’s kind of moderate and unoffensive

Says basically that and now we have this news cycle about investigating something

We should have been investigating 18 months ago. Just at least to get to the bottom of it

What was going on but Trump had to make it such a big deal and about himself and I think that’s a takeaway

But just because Trump says something doesn’t mean it’s not true

I mean, he is occasionally gonna say things that are true. And that’s not what my point is

My point is the president of the United States. You just have to have more discipline

Well, but but I think you’re right in the sense that the reason this became a forbidden topic is because the media had to act

Like anything Trump said is is untrue or crazy or race. It’s a failure on both sides then David

I mean the the media is failing to be independent critical thinkers and

Trump is failing to be a good leader and be clear and that means you have to be an independent critical thinker

The media’s first obligation here is to the truth

They’re not supposed to distort the truth or push forward a false narrative because of the political

Consequences and and that they didn’t want to be seen as helping Trump in any way and that’s really what their motivation was

But I find it equally disturbing that big tech was censoring the truth on this issue

The whole point of having a free marketplace of ideas is so that we can arrive at the truth

And how’s that gonna be possible when big censoring? I really disagree with you

I think that the the big text decision to censor this information was a

Was a derivative of the first two things like I don’t think that decision would have happened had Trump been normal and

Then you know

Media would have just listened and said, okay, maybe there’s a chance this guy’s right. He’s saying and acting in a normal way

Let’s go investigate and then big tech would have basically said we don’t know the truth one way or the other but it seems

Legitimate sane people are on both sides. So it says Donald Trump published mean tweets

It was okay for big tech or rather the media to basically

Portray the correct theory as a lie and a conspiracy and it was okay for big tech to engage in censorship on that basis

What I’m saying is the following the president of the United States

Independent and whoever it is has a very specific

responsibility to be measured to be unemotional and

To be about the bigger picture. That’s what the president of the United States is

responsibility is no matter who holds the office and

Then the media’s job is to fact-check that and hold that person accountable and cold that person in a transparent manner

Freeberg yes or no. Is it a viable theory and then let’s get to odds and percentages

I mean as a scientist

Do you think that this is because came from a wet market or some accidental exposure or somebody eating bad or some cross

Contamination a bat and a pig and then somebody eats the pig or do you think somebody from the lot from the lab?

Accidentally brought it home with them

Don’t know doesn’t matter. I feel like we need to kind of recognize that bio

warfare

bioterrorism is

A real risk and I think more importantly that this moment whether or not it’s proven it will never be proven or disproven one way

Or the other so it really doesn’t matter

What will ultimately happen is we are going to kind of become much more cognizant of these sorts of threats

To the human population. Let me be very specific a

kid in high school

Could write up some RNA code

Today on their computer

Order that RNA to be delivered to them by what’s called an oligo printing facility get this RNA boot it up turn it into a

Virus and they could release that thing into the wild

There are several very cheap over-the-counter internet based ways that one could do this

So the fact that there’s some sophisticated government run lab doing this. I don’t think matters as much what’s really compelling

In this whole storyline is like holy shit. This is possible

It’s possible that there’s either an engineered or discovered virus and it shows just how if these things leak out and they are infectious and they

Are transmissible can become a real risk to the global population and it’s not just viruses

There are other mechanisms of bio warfare that can be printed and created

using similar techniques of genomics

There are proteins called prions and prions cause other proteins to fold in a mismatched way

This is actually what mad cow disease is it’s a prion

So it’s a protein that you find in the brain

And if you eat this particular protein ends up in your brain

It causes the other proteins in your brain that match that protein to misfold and it basically

Replicates and creates this cascading effect. So basically like aliens like aliens and in fact

Yeah, but I guess my point is like whether it’s prions or or viruses

There are techniques and there are capabilities and instruments now that all humans have access to

That theoretically could allow for the booting or the creation and the distribution of

truly terrifying

tools

biological tools

Now this comes hand-in-hand with the incredible optimism and opportunity that these tools present much like chemical engineering

Presented in the early 20th century to humanity

We could create things like DDT and kill ourselves or we could create things like artificial fertilizer and feed ourselves

And so there’s this this tremendous as there is with any new technology

This tremendous kind of optimism and fear and it’s gonna create I think a very powerful debate narrative over the coming decade

On what do we do with these tools? Is it even possible to regulate them?

Where is this gonna go? And and what are the risk and it’s not necessarily just government agencies that we need to kind of be

Considering here. It’s the fact that there’s a democratization of this tooling which is enabling

Does it sacks does it matter if it was leaked or not Freeberg is saying it doesn’t matter a big picture, of course

Of course it matters. And and the only reason we don’t know conclusively that it came from a lab is because

The Chinese government wouldn’t let they thwarted the investigation

they wouldn’t let the investigators come in and

so the smoke is pouring out of the Wuhan Institute of Virology and they will not allow the

Firefighters in because those firefighters come from the West

We could establish the truth of what happened if they would let us talk to the scientists who work at that lab if they could

Go, what would you do about it? Let’s say that you find out that it did like yeah

Well at a minute, well, first of all, we’re talking about a virus has killed millions of people’s millions of people across the world. It’s

Caused enormous damage to the economy to our economy to economies all over the world

You know, we have to think through carefully what the consequences would be

But it matters a lot how the Chinese government handled this at a minimum at a minimum

We need to decouple ourselves from China with regard to anything. That’s a vital American interest

We cannot be dependent on them for the manufacturing of our PPE for our antibiotics for our pharmaceuticals. It is insane

So there’s nothing we’re gonna do

We’re not there’s nothing we’re gonna do to China in terms of sanctions if we find out they covered up a leak

If there’s an accidental leak and they covered it up. We’re not

As a it acts more as a warning sign for us to do better and be more independent

It’s a principle of escalation

They are still the critical supplier to most of American manufacturing and industry

Every product that American companies make most products have some sort of Chinese produced input

And I would start I would start with I think the measured response that’s also in our national interest is to reassure

Any critical components that we need for our pharmaceutical industry?

So drug manufacturing and the manufacturing sanctioning China, it’s about getting our act together Chamath

Do you agree with this?

And what do you think if we did find out that it was in fact a covered up leak, which I think is the most

reasonable

Assumption here. What should we do as America as a country global?

Reaction to China. I agree with Friedberg and David Sachs in in

parts

There’s nothing to do I think we have to move on

I think it’s important to get to the bottom of it

It’ll maybe help eliminate some of the politicizing of science that we’ve seen as a result of this thing

But ultimately what’s done is done

instead what I think we have to learn from it is you can’t elect hotheads and

people who are unpredictable and unreliable to basically be our

Truth tellers and fact tellers and

If anybody but Donald Trump was the president of the United States in that moment

We probably could have had a chance of getting to the bottom of it when it counted and whether you support him or not

It doesn’t matter the style

Made it impossible for anybody to really listen that to me is the most important takeaway of that moment

Which is he does have a responsibility above everybody else’s the second thing is I think this is the most important

macro investing theme that I’ve seen in my lifetime, which is that globalization as we know it is over and

What saxapoo just said is what I really believe which is that?

You have to onshore and you have to move to a place where you value

Resiliency over just in time and if you look at the businesses that get that need to get built

in order to enable resiliency

you will see

Trillions of dollars of opportunity and I really really believe in that and that’s that’s very exciting to me. So instead of great

Yeah, instead of being anti China, which I don’t think is productive

I think it’s better to be pro-america and say hey, let’s just figure out how to build this stuff ourselves

Now, here’s the problem though when the rubber meets the road

the biggest impediment to onshoring jobs into the United States are the same people on the left who actually

Claim that there is no upward mobility and here’s why

When you go and you want to basically balkanized supply chains

You are introducing inefficiency

You’re also introducing some puts and takes in areas that today have been like third rail issues. For example

The people on the left believe in climate change more than anybody else

But when you explain to them that in order to eliminate hydrocarbons, you actually have to mine critical minerals and metals out of the ground

They’re the same people that say no way

Well, you can’t have one without the other and you actually have to have a rational conversation and realize like listen

We’re gonna have to do this. And so for example, like Biden this past week somewhat capitulated for

Environmental interest and said, you know what? Yes climate change is critical, but we’re gonna try to get them from everywhere else

But America it’s not gonna work

so

That’s kind of where like I’m a little frustrated

But those are my two takeaways. Number one is past

Let’s just get past China and let’s just focus on the United States and number two is

Globalization as we know it is done and we need to focus on resiliency. Did you guys read the Wall Street Journal piece on?

the miners who in

2012 were the ones who

You know, we’re clearing

Essentially bat-dung back. Yeah. Yeah, and so this this is a really fascinating

Turn of events that we’re starting to know what this lab was doing. If you didn’t see the Wall Street Journal story

We’ll put it in the show notes

Yeah

We’ll put the show notes but in April 2012 six miners fell sick with a mysterious illness after entering the mine to clear a bat

Guano, I guess is what?

That poop which is supposed to be a primary source of fertilizer worldwide. Yeah, so three of them died

Chinese scientists from the Wuhan Institute of Virology were called in to investigate

After taking samples from bats in the mine identified several new coronaviruses now unanswered questions about the miners illness the viruses

Found at the site and the research done with them have elevated into the mainstream an idea once dismissed as a conspiracy theory that SARS

Cove to the virus that causes COVID-19 might have leaked from the lab in Wuhan

I mean, this is just becoming more and more obvious

My my gut tells me that our government already knows this has known it for some time the 90-day

Sort of window that they’ve given the Chinese to kind of give us an answer as to what happened here is

Window dressing and then we’re gonna start the process of becoming more independent from China because there’s I mean, it’s nothing you could do

I mean, how could we retaliate for an accident? We’re not gonna get in a war over this

No one’s suggesting that but I think we have to open our eyes to

The regime that we’re dealing with over in China and just to add a layer to this analysis

Novel Cronus

Coronaviruses are not the only thing coming out of Chinese labs. China is also the number one producer of fentanyl

Yes, and that’s another truth that we can finally talk about now that Trump is out of office

People haven’t wanted to talk about it or they thought that you were hysterical or promoting a conspiracy theory if you talked about it

But I just posted two articles in the chat one from Brookings and one from NPR

About how China is the main source of fentanyl that’s pouring into our streets first

It makes a stopover in Mexico and then somehow it gets smuggled into the u.s. This is a huge problem in our cities and

You know, I think this is not this is not accidental, you know, this is

This is deliberate

Yeah, the Chinese your position is the Chinese government is deliberately sending a super opioid drug into the United States

For profit or to destabilize the country and different cities and create more division between the left and the right

because homelessness and wealth inequality is getting mixed up with a super drug as

Opposed to a homeless problem. This is a little this is getting a little long. I know it’s getting crazy

Well, that’s what I’m reflecting back to sack

How’s it a conspiracy theory? We know that China is mass-producing the fentanyl that’s coming into the u.s

We know that that fentanyl is creating a gigantic crisis of drug addiction and homelessness on the streets

We know they could stop it if they wanted to they have total control over that country. What is the conspiracy theory?

Yeah, I don’t know if that’s the equivalent of saying America produces all the world’s cars. It’s not America

There are organizations within the United States that are under the purview

The CCP is hand-picking who gets to run bite dance and ants and they’re retiring CEOs

They get to decide what is produced in that country and who produces it. You’re telling me that

What do you think is going on in the federal government when they say to their counterparts at the Chinese Communist Party?

Hey, we need you guys to stop producing fentanyl. Do you think that conversations happening?

Yeah, it was this was an agenda item during the Trump administration and talks between

Do you have any sense of what the feedback was from China? I mean, what’s the counterpoint?

I don’t know enough

But what is the counterpoint that China would then say like why they can’t stop it or why this is still happening?

I mean my understanding is there are thousands of kind of you know

Call them under regulated factories and facilities in China any number of which this could be

Question it just does China have a fentanyl addiction problem in their streets

We don’t know

And the answer is they round every single person who’s a Hong Kong dissident who would sell a book or if anybody goes to the

That’s fair. Tiananmen

You’re going to jail for five years

They just announced Hong Kong citizens who go to the Tiananmen Square

Memorial this year are getting five years and if you tweet about it, you get one year in jail so they can

They can control anything in their country just to build on your control point

I tweeted this to you guys in the group chat

We can post this as well in the show notes

But there was an article in Forbes this week that said friends don’t let friends become Chinese billionaires

That was the title and the data point that this is an old story. By the way, it’s like eight years old

Just you know, no, no. No, this was written now

That might have been no, I think read the story. I think at the top it says the story is like eight years old

But anyway, it is true that Chinese billionaire Chinese billionaire dies every 40 days

Unnatural deaths have taken the lives of 72 mainland billionaires over the past eight years 15 were murdered

It’s the Wild West over there man

17 committed suicide 7 died from accidents in 19 accidents and 14 were executed suicide accidents

But they execute the 14 for can you imagine 14 billionaires just get executed? Is that story real?

What is that story from tomorrow? I mean, well this this may be is a good segue into coinbase fact-check, but this is

All

Right India versus what’s up? Well, I’ll give you the rundown on the India thing

So basically, you know there there is a right to you know, free speech effectively in the Indian Constitution

But then India passed the law as effectively. I’ll just I’ll just

summarize it as traceability

which basically means that if you have an online network and you post something in the network if an Indian sensor or an Indian regulator or

Authority basically says hey, hold on. This is an issue. They have the right to basically have this the the network or whoever owns that network

Trace it down to its originating source. Now. That’s a really important distinction because there are certain products

So for example, take whatsapp where a feature of the product is end-to-end encryption, right?

so it’s hopping around in ways that are very difficult and near to impossible for anybody to really figure out and

Now all of a sudden that that that element which used to be a feature is

Now a bug because if the Indian government says hey, hold on that statement. I have an issue with I need you to figure out

Who said that?

They’ll essentially have to undo all their end-to-end encryption to figure out. So then whatsapp filed a

court case in New Delhi

This week essentially I think asking for an injunction. And so I think this is going to go to a head

But you have this now

State of affairs, which I think is really interesting, which is so

You know, we we talk about how we have an issue with Chinese censors

Well now here’s a different more complicated example because this is the largest democracy in the world and what they were effectively saying is

We need to have an equivalent

red button and a set of levers so that we can figure out what’s going on when we choose and

There’s going to be a lot of implications because inside of India what’s different than America as a democracy is it has lower

Average incomes it has lower health. It has lower literacy rates. It has more

religious sort of tension

And it’s got you know

Many many more young people who are more prone theoretically to get you know

bamboozled by

Misinformation and disinformation and so, you know India sees those facts on the ground and probably wrote this law with those intentions in mind

Right and it’s had a bunch of these issues by the way

Particularly between Muslims and Hindus and so what do you do, you know, what is Facebook and whatsapp supposed to do?

What is Google supposed to do?

What does it mean for internet rights? I think it’s a super super complicated problem. And do you prioritize?

misinformation and disinformation above

The right for people’s privacy and you’re gonna see it unfold in the largest democracy in the world over the next couple months

I don’t really know how I feel about it to be honest

Except I do think that Indian government has a right to set the rules of their own country

Well and set the rules they are I mean remember they also banned tik-tok in an instance and hundreds of other apps

I think 60 apps from China have been banned permanently in

India so India obviously has a different approach to China, which is we’re gonna put our foot down now

Of course, they’re involved in some skirmishes on their border. But yeah, it does seem sacks. What do you what’s your thought you have?

Personal right to privacy end-to-end encryption and then you have you know, the ability to run backdoor a backdoor to it

Yeah, this is another

major

Sledgehammer to globalization, you know in the in the mid to late 90s

We had this beautiful dream that we’re gonna create a single Internet for the whole world

it would create a single common market a single place for people to interact and go and that all of these

Barriers these geographic barriers tribal barriers would come down over time

And now what we see is the trade barriers have come up and now instead of having one Internet for the whole world

It’s fragmenting into a bunch of different Internets governed by local laws

You know, it started with the the great firewall of China creating sort of a separate Chinese Internet

now you’re starting to see country-by-country regulations and I just think it’s it’s sort of an inevitable reaction that

the power of governments and sovereignties comes before the power of corporations and they’re

reimposing their will and I think the question for all these companies is going to be where they decide they’re willing to play and

You know

I think

now I do think it’s a very different choice whether you want to play in India or whether you want to play in China because

In China when the government tells you to hand over information on dissidents you really are

Aiding and abetting what could be political oppression whereas India being a democracy

I don’t think the choice is quite the same at all

and so, you know

I do think these tech companies are gonna have to decide which countries they want to sort of play ball with and

Ultimately, I think they probably have to make a determination

Based on working with the Democratic ones and they’re probably gonna have to exit the ones that engage in political repression in my first of all

I think that’s really well said what you said in my in my annual letter last year

I kind of wrote like here’s the white paper on how to dismantle big tech and there were two frames one was around

Taxation which we’re also seeing but the second was on this regulator regulatory point David that you’re bringing up

That’s the simplest way to sort of break these companies down

Which is if you have to engineer now instead of one monolithic codebase

Multiple instantiations where you can’t even get the leverage of like, you know cross-border data centers

I mean, by the way, there there’s a really interesting thing that the Biden tax bill also proposes on this dimension, right?

It’s gonna prevent you from sending IP, you know into places like

Like Ireland and keeping it there, right? So you can’t have all of a sudden, you know code

That’s running in Ireland that executes something that makes money so that you can pay Irish tax versus something code that runs in America

That’s largely, you know user oriented that’s not gonna happen. That’s not gonna be allowed anymore, right?

So all of these things are happening at the same time essentially to reign

Big tech in making it almost a whack-a-mole problem inside these companies where you’re fighting a tax thing

For example, Google’s fighting antitrust in France

Then you’re fighting antitrust at the EU level then you’re fighting, you know traceability and encryption in India

Then you’re fighting, you know inversion of an IP in America

Wow, like it’s like all of a sudden the lawyers inside of these companies will outnumber the engineers

And I think a lot of this is the downstream

Consequences of what happened back in January when Twitter and all the other big tech companies deplatformed Trump

Remember at the time it wasn’t just you know conservatives or in the US who raised alarm bells. It was Angela Merkel in in

Germany it was the finance minister in France. I think India, you know

Talked about it. I think Modi had a statement about it

They all woke up and said whoa a head of state can be deep platformed by Jack Dorsey

He’s more powerful than the president of United States and countries all around the world started looking at the power of big tech and realize

That they’re subordinate to all these tech billionaires and oligarchs. Tell me about coinbase and fact-check. I think this thing is incredible

I mean I have to say by the way the first thing I’ll say about and this is this is the exact opposite of what I

Said the last time Brian Armstrong wrote a memo

This memo is excellent. And if you haven’t had a chance to read it, we’ll put it in the show notes

But Brian’s essay is super I think there have been a couple of CEO memos in the last two months that I think

Honestly should be in the Hall of Fame in the Smithsonian

One is the Toby Lutke memo

that the internal email he wrote and the second one is this one that Brian wrote because I think this this thing is probably one

Of the most important things in my opinion that has been written

By a CEO which has the potential to lead to huge systemic changes

Well, he echoed he echoed a lot of the things we’ve been saying on this pod about going direct

Don’t let the press tell your story go direct get you get the truth out

there basically what the what the blog said is they’re gonna start using the coinbase blog as a forum basically as a

Media publication for for crypto related things and the fact-check part is that when the popular press?

Gets crypto wrong, which they do frequently in coinbase’s view. Coinbase is gonna call them out and correct them

Basically, here’s what he says the increased awareness has been great

Unfortunately, we also see misinformation published frequently as well whether in traditional media social media or by public figures

This doesn’t always come from negative intentions

our business and crypto can be difficult to understand and often people are rushed to post first impressions online making mistakes in the process at

Other times misinformation comes from people publishing their own agenda or from people who have a conflict of interest

This is not unique to our business or industry, of course

So, how should companies respond one turn the other cheek to fight and three publish the truth

I believe there is a reasonable middle ground between these first two options

turning the other cheek and fighting which is to simply publish the truth in a

Way you fight back is you publish the truth. So that to me that’s not a choice

Those are the same thing is you can either remain silent

Take the high road which always results in people believing whatever, you know

Lies are being said or you fight back by telling the truth fact-check approach is not about antagonizing or embarrassing others

That’s Brian Armstrong, but simply sharing what happened through our own channels

It also means sharing the good along with the bad with radical transparency

I I just want to say that I wish him all the success in the world because I think if if if and as this

Works with that which I think it will because

People in the crypto universe are more prone to actually get their own information and do their own diligence

I think the spillover effects to other companies can be really positive. All of this is going to the same place, which is

The intermediate layer of traditional media is basically getting whittled down, right?

There was a there was a different thing that happened in this last few weeks, which was

The Tribune company I think it was

Basically got taken private by some hedge fund and in it

they talked about what has happened in the industry and

the most incredible thing was the amount of revenue that has disappeared from newspapers and

Literally from the tens of billions of dollars to basically single-digit billions today over the last 20 years

which effectively means traditional media’s revenue source is going away and

If then all of a sudden if you take that media

Model away and there are no more economic incentives

Then it stands to reason that the overarching incentives that remain are around reputation

Which is then about facts and so the fact that Coinbase will have a place that says here are the facts and we’re gonna put

It on chain permanently on the record. That’s I think a really powerful idea Andreessen Horowitz, by the way same situation

They’re doing it in venture capital, you know, one of the largest and most prolific and important

sources of

Funding the future. They’re on the record on chain in their own way, right with their own media

And and they’re now helping to tell the stories of other folks through it David Sachs, you know, Sachs has put so much content

In terms of teaching people about the business that he knows really well

But at the same time he’s also been able to write about what he thinks about certain things and then eventually on behalf of his companies

He’ll be able to say things and do things as well. So all of a sudden not all of a sudden

I guess we’ve seen it. But if we had to put a label on this

This is the dismantling of traditional media. It is happening in real time and

It’s accelerating

It turns out, you know as a subject being

Interpreted as you’re being through the New Yorker right now in your story Chamath and I am through my business insider profile

You know all these profiles that they do

They’re interpreting your life when people could just tune into the podcast and hear us talk about it, right?

And it’s like you can go direct to the source and listen to 34 episodes of all-in or you could read

Some interpretation from somebody trying to get page views. Well, here’s my here’s my observation. The thing is that people who create

Artifacts on a real-time basis. So in many ways we have all collectively now started to create a weekly artifact of who we are as people

It leaves very little left over for interpretation

And so then unfortunately what happens is journalists trying to write content have to introduce some form of flourish to stand out

Yeah, because if you’re just repeating something that was said on the podcast or something that we said in a tweet

There’s nothing left to talk about it’s kind of already been said and so that’s what creates boundary conditions for lying

And it’s what creates boundary conditions for mistruths and we’ve seen a handful of reporters back in the day fall

You know fall into that trap. We you know, there was a couple writers in the New York Times that got pinched for lying

It’s gonna be harder and harder to lie

So in many in some ways

I’m actually pretty optimistic that that reputation management and truth will be easier to do in the future when this intermediary layer doesn’t exist

But it’ll take many other companies to do what Coinbase is doing and recent us in this podcast

Us with our tweets and our memos and our posts. I think it’s it’s all in the good positive direction

Yeah, and and and and Armstrong in his in this blog talks about the gel man amnesia effect

Which we’ve talked about on this pod before which is I saw that. Yeah. Yeah, which is great. I love that

Because you know that the gel man amnesia is you read the newspaper about a topic?

You know something about you see that 50% of it is just wrong

Then you turn the page to some other part of the newspaper say, you know world affairs

You don’t know as much about and you just assume it’s true

and we all know that the media is maybe 50% right about everything and so

Yeah, I mean, so this is why we have to hear from experts directly. I think it’s why it’s a decentralization of media

It’s why I think this like heavy-handed

centralized censorship by big tech is so

Offensive and anachronistic is to try and control what everyone can say

Especially when it later turns out that you know, big media gets so many things wrong like the lab leak theory

So it’s it’s this is definitely the way things are headed

I would like to invest some money to basically free Berg a platform to explain science. Well, that’s right here free Berg

tell us about the science of

NBA games and large gatherings in the age of

Vaccination. I’m pretty sure you got COVID this week Jake out. I’m pretty sure I definitely lost my voice at the Knicks games

But I have to say this was pretty stunning

To go to a Knicks game have everybody in the arena show their VACs card to get in. I suppose somebody could

Photocopy one or steal one, you know

It sounds like a lot of work and I don’t know what that if there’s any penalty for doing something like that

But what when you see a full arena Madison Square Garden everybody vaccinated free Berg

Do does it give you any pause as a scientist that this is not a good idea or this is too soon

Or do you think heck? Yes, this is what we should be doing proper risk assessment. Finally

No, we should do what we want to do

Do what you want to do

Way to keep the free bird ratio high that was supposed to be the science segway we’re ready for a monologue

Let’s go free bird. Come on. Let’s go free brag. We’re poking the tiger here Friedberg

Why don’t you tell this is something I thought was incredible am Jen

This week at the end of this week got approval for this really incredible drug that basically targets k-razz mutations

In lung cancer, which has been this body of cancer that has basically been somewhat intractable for a really long time

And these guys have cracked the code. It looks like and now the drug is 18,000 a month, I think but

You know, that’s that’s for insurance to take care of but pretty incredible breakthrough that people are talking a lot about

I don’t know if you if you were tracking it. No, but I

Think that there were several other gene therapies. There were several

Drugs that got approval in the last like month

one of which is this or actually was about two months ago this drug that

It uses targeted car key therapy

Basically, you know, we all have t-cells and

We can edit our own t-cells now using this car key therapy

This is a series of techniques where you basically

Reprogram your t-cells genetically to go after a specific target in your body

And so there are now a whole series of car key therapies that are coming to market that are actually in market

You can go down and go get treatment

Today for several these car key therapies that you know, not too long ago. We’re really difficult to kind of understand

You know being real

They take your t-cells out of your blood, you know

So you go and you get your blood drawn a couple weeks later you come back to the doctor

They’ve taken the t-cells out of your blood. They re-engineer them the way they re-engineer is really interesting

They basically

Use this technique where they zap them with electricity and it gets this gene editing in there and then they get edited and then they put

Those t-cells back into your in your body

It takes about an hour to get them re-injected back into your body and then they do their job and they in many cases are

Being used to target cancer cells. It’s very specific receptors

So now the t-cell has been programmed to go find that cancer cell receptor

They hit the cancer cell receptor bind to it and then eliminate that cancer cell. So essentially in

Plain English you’re putting this super t-cell back on the body

It goes through the blood and then it finds something foreign that shouldn’t be there like a virus or cancer find anything

You want bacteria, whatever you want it to find and it snipes it but yeah what it does

Remember, it’s it’s looking for a specific protein and that protein for example can be expressed only on the surface of specific cancer cells

So if you found certain cancer cells that you have a cancer and we know that there’s a specific

Protein that shows up on the surface of that cancer which is common in many cancers because they all follow very similar kind of

You know mutations you can end up

Targeting that cancer cell and only that cancer cell and your your t-cells go to work and they go and wipe it out

I think the breakthrough this week was in multiple myeloma and thyroid cancer

Yeah, there’s a multiple myeloma one, which was a bluebird bioproduct. Yeah, and then I think it got picked up by

Bristol

Or someone else picked it up. So they basically paid the fee and they run their own good manufacturing practice

Facility where your blood is shipped to them

They do all the gene editing with your own t-cells in this facility and they ship it back to your doctor and it gets re-injected

Back into you. There are

600 car t-cell

Is that what’s called car space t-cell?

Yeah

So car stands for chimeric antigen receptor and that is the little call think about it as like a seeker

That’s on the outside of your t-cell it goes and it finds a specific thing

It’s trying to bind to and so you’re reprogramming your t-cell to have a specific

Receptor and then as soon as it finds that that as soon as that receptor binds to the correct protein that it’s looking for

Boom that that cell that it binds to gets wiped out

are we gonna talk about the crazy media mergers and spin-outs that are happening because

It seems like just in the last 90 days the entire industry is rewiring itself

And it’s kind of a pretty significant set of transactions that are underway

Amazon is buying MGM which owns most importantly James Bond James Bond has done 20 billion dollars in

Adjusted revenue for their movies and you can obviously see many different backstories and television shows around the James Bond

So this is kind of in my mind of that eight or nine billion

They spent six billions on the franchise for James Bond so that Bezos can play James Bond obviously while he returns

If you take a zoom out, you know

Several years ago. You guys may remember, you know early 2000s into the mid, you know

All the telco started freaking out

Because they were sorry all the media companies were freaking out

Because their controlled points of distribution which were network television and then their cable television stations and the movie theaters

We’re getting disintermediated by the internet

So all these internet companies showed up like YouTube and Netflix and we’re going direct to consumer where consumers were not getting access to content

Directly without the control channels that the media companies controlled at the same time

The telcos were freaking out because it turns out people didn’t need cell phones anymore or need phone lines anymore

What they needed was internet access and internet access was quickly commoditizing

So the telcos were like holy crap being in the business of providing internet service not a great business

We need to be making more value per user per year than we’re gonna be able to make charging them for internet access

So the telco started buying up media companies

This is what Verizon and others did and the media companies and AT&T and the media cut

So remember Verizon bought AOL and Yahoo

AT&T bought Time Warner and then the media companies the old-school media companies that were kind of like still

Decided not to sell and to stay on their own

They decided well, we got to go internet

so we got to figure out how to be on the internet and compete in this world where companies like Netflix and Amazon are

going direct to consumers and

You know, they all started building their own internet services

And so now you got Paramount Plus, HBO Max, Hulu

And that you know, Hulu was a big one and meanwhile the tech companies that went direct to consumers

They’re realizing you know, what if these media companies aren’t gonna play ball. We better get our own media

We got to get old content. And so then they started licensing, buying, funding and building their own media companies

And so there’s a total reorientation that’s underway. Now what’s interesting in the last couple weeks is Verizon decided

You know what? We can’t be in the media business

We’re not very good at it and they spun it out and they’re selling AOL, Yahoo

And then meanwhile this really interesting deal is AT&T gave up on owning Time Warner

And so it turns out that the telcos who thought that they could own the media and monetize it

You know what? It’s just a pain in the butt. It’s another business

We can’t really figure out how to add value to our subscriber base with these products. They’re gonna have to exist on their own

We don’t know how to run them because we’re not media guys, and they’re spinning out

So now the telcos, the interesting question to ask is what are they gonna do next?

What’s the next move for them because they got to keep growing

Meanwhile, the tech companies and the media companies are just like this

And there’s 50 subscription services each with their own silo and vulcanization of content

And we’re all gonna have to choose as consumers

Do I want HBO Max or Paramount Plus or you know

The the bundle I get from Comcast and it’s gonna be a nasty battle for the next 10 years

Where you and where you want content you’re gonna have to go pick and choose who do you want to buy content from?

And so yeah, I have a theory

I think consolidation happens when markets don’t matter anymore and are getting commoditized and

What I would say about all of this what it shows me is that we’re now

transferring to the phase of the market where it’s all about cost of capital and

right now the only person that actually understood that was Netflix and

Netflix issued billions of dollars of debt and they’ve started to finance every piece of content under the Sun and

being small and trying to compete against Netflix was not possible and

Now we’re in that part of the market where content is actually not that important because there is an enormous diversity of it

So no one single person can really corner that market

And so then it becomes how much can you make and how cheaply can you make it and their scale matters?

So I can think like what this shows me back to sort of what we talked about before on the other part about like

Facts and truth is this is part of a much broader, you know media puzzle that’s becoming more obvious, which is

traditional outlets that push top-down content is kind of yesterday’s news and

what it’s being replaced by is more and better forms of user-generated content and

Highly commoditized

Unprofessional content and in all of that the economics are going away. So I don’t if you if you if you are not sure

Go and look inside of tick-tock the content that individual people create inside of tick-tock is

unbelievably good and

They are training an entire generation of kids

to consume content

15 seconds 30 seconds at a time

Which has huge implications by the way for how they consume music

So for example, if you guys like look inside a tick-tock and then go to YouTube and look at the most popular videos the same

And same thing with Spotify. It’s 15 second clips now

No, you know these kids want to listen to the hook of a song and then they won’t listen to it

I see how my kids use it and it’s crazy because like they get addicted to a hook on tick-tock

They try to go to YouTube to learn the lyrics

They only want to learn the lyrics for the part that’s in the tick-tock bus it and then they move on a challenge

Yes, whatever it is

And so the the point of all of that is that content costs are going to continue to go down

Which means the economics are going to go down the margins are not that good

And so it’s all just a commodity that almost doesn’t matter. I don’t know about that

I think for the top-tier IP like you can’t displace a Disney

And they are growing portfolio of IP and those things are high margin and you know having 250

I don’t know having 250 to 500,000 500 million people paying you monthly has never existed in the history of humanity

There’s never been a at-scale service like this before the closest was Verizon AT&T when they hit 100 million

I’m not disputing that people won’t pay

999 what I’m disputing is

The denominator of what they’re paying for is increasing so fast that no one piece of content matters Jason

No, the idea we agree with that collections matter, right? So the IP of Marvel Disney

Pixar put together

Right like pick Disney launched this thing with no direct-to-consumer relationships with when they launched Disney Plus

What do they have now 60 million subscribers or something to a hundred now hundred million subscribers, which is incredible

You guys have kids my kids watch this stuff on you

We’ll have it for the rest of our lives over and over they’ll put on friggin Moana

I cannot tell you how many times I’ve watched the seashore scene of Moana. They want to watch the beginning

They want to watch the middle part

It’s just like infinitely reusable content and so Disney’s content library is so powerful for that particular demographic

Basically the demographic of anyone with children that it’s an instant on kind of moment

These other guys like Paramount Plus and you know, HBO’s obviously got some special content

But it shows how much content matters, right?

The quality of the content for the demographic is so key for this to work all these media companies that have kind of a broad

Dithered, you know library of half quality half good kind of content

They’re gonna struggle man, because they’re not gonna feel like they’re ringing a little too much out of it with this too much content production

There is like 50 shows about superheroes. Then there’s like 50 shows that are like, you know

Met a commentary on the superhero show. It’s almost becoming exhausting like how many homeland style shows are there gonna be?

How many Soprano style shows are gonna be Game of Thrones? I’m getting burnt. I think I like your I think you’re making my point

Which is that no one piece of content matters anymore. It’s all yeah

So my big takeaway from Bezos buying MGM and these other, you know, M&A events is

It’s less about the decline of content, even though there are more and more options there ever have been and therefore more competition

And it’s more about the rising power and wealth and influence of big tech

I mean if you look at throughout history

Whoever is buying studios in any given era

They’re the people with the money and power and they’re seeking influence. It was

NBC it was Gulf and Western buying Paramount in the 1970s an oil and gas company or

What happens in the picture so that’s right Sony Sony

Columbia in the 1980s when you had the era of the Rising Sun

So whoever has the money and the power and seeking influence are the ones buying studios

That’s what Bezos is doing right now

but I think this time it is a little bit different in this sense that we’re reaching an end state of digital convergence where the

Where content and the digital distribution are now reaching their kind of final state

And so I don’t expect these studios once they’re owned by big tech to ever go anywhere

And I don’t think they’re gonna be trading again every 10 years. I think this is the end state

Amazon wants this library for their streaming service

And I think that big tech is gonna gobble up the rest of these libraries and that’s where they’re gonna stay

Do you think all media will end up in tech? Yeah, I mean, I think I think I think big tech is gonna eat Hollywood

Look, we’ve been on this this path of convergence now since the mid 90s with the Internet and the question was always

you know, we knew that tech and Hollywood were converging and and

Joining just more and more and the question would be on whose terms

This final merger would take place and I think that big tech now you just look at the market caps

There’s so much bigger than the market caps of these studios that eight billion surrounding era

Running air for Bezos. I mean, it’s one days. It’s one day’s

Revenue or whatever less so obviously big tech is gonna win this battle. They are gonna own Hollywood

except for the few guys that have

Scale to actually be successful like Disney, right Disney maybe HBO to some extent

We’ll see how I mean look Zaslav who runs this guy. He’s an incredible media guy

And he gets it

but they could be like this discovery plus slash HBO plus whatever that combined business ends up looking like

That could be a competitor and their babies like there’s two to three libraries

They’re deep enough and strong enough to compete and stand on their own as a tech kind of platform

But what’s also really interesting is that all the telcos are exiting and what are they gonna become right?

It’s clear. What’s interesting is they’re not they’re not tech companies

Are important, right?

So so here’s the thing with the telcos that the telecom stack is we know that tech is taking over Hollywood

But the question is what part of the tech stack and what’s happened is the part of the tech stack that has the direct

relationship with the audience

Apple Google Amazon who aggregate millions and millions of consumers

They’re the ones who should actually own the content because they are the ones delivering up

The content to the consumer and everybody else who’s lower down in the stack who are just the pipes

They don’t really have a claim on these libraries in this content

The pipes are the pipes are valuable, but they’re a commodity what Elon is doing with Starlink is gonna disrupt them

I’m not saying they’re not valuable, but they’re not in a highly leveraged position to do anything with the content

They’re gonna keep increasing speed in order to keep you paying 30

They realize you know what we cannot we can’t run media businesses and we can’t monetize it

Well, what are they gonna do focus on faster bandwidth get us to gigabit. I mean, it doesn’t matter

I mean like you guys are like you guys are so fucking old like you’re just like talking about yesterday’s news. Nobody cares

This is what I mean

Consolidation in markets like this should tell you it’s time to move on and focus on something else

This is a dead industry with no profit

So Chamath what happens to AT&T and what happens to Verizon over the next 10 years? It doesn’t matter

Well, I agree. I agree with that part that it doesn’t matter what happens to these telcos. They should be dumb pipes again

They’re not in a leveraged position to create value around content

They never should have owned it

But I do think there is major major significance in Amazon and Apple and Google and these other big tech companies owning

Hollywood because they have they’re gonna combine the influence

They already have with the influence of Hollywood and you already have again censorship on these tech platforms

Are they gonna start censoring the type of content the Hollywood produces?

I think these issues are gonna get more and more important over time because so much control

Over our politics and society and culture are being concentrated in the hands of frankly our industry

But this is what I think about the other the other side of that coin is what we talked about before with respect to things

Like Coinbase while that’s happening more and more people who have their own distribution are going direct

So let’s just separate entertainment and facts

From a fact perspective. I think we’re seeing everything sort of become highly decentralized and I think that that’s constructive now

There’ll be services that will be there to help us navigate

But I think that’s what’s happening with respect to entertainment

I just think like it was our generation was the last one that actually even cared about movies

That cared about these tent novelizations that that cared about water cooler type conversations on a Monday morning books novels

Kids will not understand what the hell we’re talking about

They’re like, what do you mean you used to run into work on a Monday?

You think it’s only couldn’t care less really they play

They love video games. Yeah, I mean by the way, they’re obviously like that, you know, the combination of media tech and

They’re just be kind of ultimate manifestation of where it’s all and it’s not just our kids

Just look at the monthly active usage numbers that roblox and epic

Yeah, it’s it’s nuts

And so they are voting every day with their attention and at the end of the day the thing that has never been

Improved is the nut or increases the number of hours in a day such a mock your

Telcos, you know as an investor, I own a bunch of Verizon and AT&T stock if you were running that company

What would you do? I would quit

You might run it for capital and then buy assets. Oh wait, they did that

These businesses have had horrendous capital allocation for decades

And the reason that they were allowed was that they were they were part of a culture of insiders

There were other in where other insiders said that they were important

But as it turned out to individual users who are making usage decisions every day

They were not important at all. And this is what we’re learning that the Emperor has no clothes

So while everybody was, you know looking around themselves saying AT&T is important and hey, you know

Let’s go and like, you know buy all of these crazy old-school media assets

Young people were like I use snapchat and tik-tok and YouTube and I’m done. Thanks. Goodbye. Talk right and who owns those platforms?

I mean, you’re right that professional content is being crowded out to some degree by amateur content

But now the big tech companies own the professional content or the studios for creating them and they own the user-generated

Platforms that lets the amateurs create the content so big tech now owns everything

No

but you’re seeing the next shooter drop because the thing that I think content creators haven’t yet realized and

Social media personalities and influencers haven’t yet realized is how can I own my own distribution and

Monetize my relationship that feature of the web

Will get figured out in our lifetime and that’s what starting to a patreon and then Apple is now

Spotify is doing pay content these people doing stripe accounts direct with their fans. Those people are too old

They’re not gonna figure it out. What I’m saying is there are going to be people who are teenagers today

Right or kids who will be teenagers in a decade 20 somethings?

Who will figure this out for whom the idea that if you’re a Charlie D’Amelio, right?

You’re tick tocks top biggest star with a hundred and twenty odd million followers

That to go through an intermediary to talk to your people will not in the future make any sense and I think David that’s that’s

Where the the next thing will change. I just think it’s unreliable to expect

Laserbeam, mr. Beast Charlie D’Amelio all these people

To go through the no because they have they have such

They could go direct to some of those guys could go direct now that they’re huge

But it’s it’s no different than building a name on the New York Times and then starting your own sub stack

It’s going to happen. Yeah, but you can’t go viral and you can’t get discovered unless you participate

Not an or you can use the platform and you can have a new relationship build scale

You will build scale on a platform and then you’ll go on your own because you’ll want to control and monetize your own relationship

It’s it is what these folks have done meaning like how Kylie Jenner and Kim Kardashian had built incredible scale and wealth

Yeah is effectively through that they build scale through Instagram and Twitter and wherever TV show

Now the only thing that they haven’t done is they’ve monetized it through offline goods

But if somebody figures out how to monetize it through an online relationship

Then what you’re really doing is you’re learning how to build scale in an established platform and then you on ramp to something else

That’s also online and you go from there to think that it won’t get figured out. I think is being nice

It’s being figured out. It’s being figured out right now. The street is figuring out

There’s something called ghost which is like an open-source version of

Substack it is an open-source version of substack and people are building direct relationships and doing their own

Patreon and if you leave substack you get to take your stripe account with you you use your stripe account

So now it’s portable you can go on substack for a year leave and keep all your subscribers

I think this solution will get figured out

Through the crypto community and the reason is because that is by definition to your point Jason

Fundamentally distributed and tied to a payment and a store of value because that’s what effectively this is

It’s like where is the value of somebody’s reputation and right now?

We don’t have a way of measuring it and you can you can put that on chain in some way

I don’t claim to know how but I mean people have talked about this is all these different

I hope I hope that happens

I hope that crypto figures out a way to to create decentralized social networks and all the rest of it

Yet and the only way that mr

Beast or Charlie D’Amelio or any of these people became stars is they went viral on

YouTube or tick-tock or insta they on up on a big tech platform

And so right now the strategy is gonna be doing both you use the big

Power, they have all the power right now because if they deny you access to one of these platform

Oh, you’re talking about cares about Trump

You’re talking about Trump

Trump in their life, but you okay

You’re the one on the on the brain. What are you talking about? We love that. He’s bad. You love he’s bad

What do you want missing? No, I’m not missing it at all

But you want him back or not?

We’re trying to do takeaways on these moves by big tech to buy Hollywood Studios and I’m telling you it’s about who has I

Power money and influence and it’s all good. I’ll go out on a limb and say

We’re we’re it we’re in the sort of the the August of their

Supremacy, so and again, I would just say David if on the one hand

It’s a whack-a-mole problem with governments on taxation and regulation

And on the other hand you have a way where you can have distributed social currency and value

Wow, I mean these big tech companies are getting bombarded on every single side

And I think that’s just a hard place to be one last thing for you guys on a market check

My 10-year break evens remember

We’re now down to 242. It’s been

18 days. What is he talking about?

My little inflation check my little inflation check and seems like things are trending in the right direction

Hmm, the market is back. The market’s back a little there may not be inflation

Well, I think what happened Chamath is you you put it?

Well, I think a couple of pods ago the market sent a signal to Biden that look this is too much

Taxing too much spending. It’s too inflationary

And I don’t know if Biden heard the message but several Democratic senators did breaks and they pumped put on the brakes

They reduce the size of the package. They’re now talking about maybe the capital gains rate going to 25

The infrastructure bill is you know been chopped in half. So I think there’s less inflationary pressure

Coming out of Washington, hopefully

Yeah, what I what I heard last week. I spoke to some folks in Washington. What they said was exactly what you said, David

They’re not gonna at best. They’re gonna get the cap gains

Sorry, no movement on cap gains. They don’t think it can happen at all. So that’s not gonna move

Okay, number one number two is that corporate will go to 25 but not to 28 and then number three

They’re gonna really tighten the IP loophole

Which will prevent American companies from shipping IP to places like Ireland to not pay tax

They’re gonna make it impossible to do things like inversions all this kind of stuff and then scope that down

That’s actually to your point a very very good

outcome for the markets

So this was actually productive if this happens if the infrastructure bill gets I think the Republicans now

They first McConnell said 600 to 800 billion. Now, I think they’re they’re at 900 billion

I think the Democrats started at 2.3 billion now. I think they’re at 1.7

So hopefully it’s being brought down to a more reasonable number. That’s not gonna bust the the budget

1.2 1.3 and everybody will have something but here’s the crazy thing

I mean the US government debt is now at a hundred percent of GDP. We owe our entire economy

It’s pretty crazy. And there’s still other countries that are 1.5 right and double like Japan and others

Biden Biden six trillion dollar budget would increase our budget

Debt our debt from a hundred percent of GDP to 117 percent if he gets his way too much

It’s a World War two level of spending but what is the benefit equivalent to World War two that we’re getting out of this thing?

Well, also, we’re have a surplus in so many states that we’re doing lotteries. Thank you Queen of quinoa Rain Man and the dictator

I’m JC Calacanis. We’ll see you next time on the all-in podcast. Bye. Bye

Just got crazy

We should all just get a room and just have one big you Georgie because they’re all

It’s like this like sexual tension, but they just need to release them

You’re a B