Rituals - E5 • Werewolf Trials

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I would say almost every Supernatural monster has a real life origin story and that includes werewolves.


I’m not saying they’re real but they do have a very real past.

They were real to me as a little kid, at least one actor did Lon Chaney jr.

He was a werewolf and like the some of the older movies.


I thought he was really a, really, a werewolf.

I’ve never even heard of that person.

I couldn’t have to not be fooled.

Maybe he is.

I don’t know.

I don’t know, tell you, but we are going to put aside some of these tropes, like the full moon tropes, the Silver Bullet tropes.

I don’t know if Abbott and Costello or whatever that was from had any tropes, but we’re going to put those tropes aside to for just a bit and get the true story behind man, becoming Beast, if you will, I’m already liking where this is going, like I’m home.


Okay, moving on.


Hi everyone, and welcome to rituals a Spotify original from par cast.

I’m Christine Schieffer.

And I’m M Schultz and every week, we’ll explore the evolution of spiritualism, and the Occult through stories practices and the impact on Modern culture.


We’re Takin werewolves.


I’m excited about this.

I didn’t have a lot to say about worlds, but I did come up with a couple jokes for you.

We don’t have time today.


Oh, getting too bad.

What is a werewolf?

Favorite drink?

Forego like fake.


Oh, no.

I don’t know.


That’s really good.

And then what’s their favorite mineral?

Like, gemstone?

Did you come up with this?

No, I really wrote These down because I wanted to look up some jokes, but did you Google this?

Or did you make these up yourself?


No, I did not make these up.

I’m not that smart.

Okay, what’s a werewolves?

Favorite mineral?

I don’t know.

How light.

Is that a mineral?

I think.




Okay, that would then leave.

Okay, 111 a tattoo, okay.

Try not Moonstone.

Okay, whatever.

Anyway, I am very excited to talk about werewolves with you.


I’m so glad I’m here then to teach you about the werewolf trials about werewolves a history.

You know, what’s real?

What’s not real?

I can’t wait.

Let’s crack it to it.

So I know you have your own strange connection to werewolves as far as whatever that thing was.


You said earlier, Lon Chaney jr.

Is that a purse?

That’s an actor?

Yeah, as an actor, he was at all the Abbott Costello videos, but everything wasn’t in all of them Abbott, and Costello weren’t all the oven casilla videos.

But Lon Chaney jr.

Played the, The Wolfman and there was a movie where they met Frankenstein and Dracula and I still really love Abbott and Costello.


That was, if you’ve never given them a shot, go for it, but I highly suggest the spooky movie Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein featuring Dracula and the Wolfman and I was convinced he was a real werewolf.

I really thought, if I were to bump into him one day he would take me to a full moon and if I were really nice, he let me watch him turn into a werewolf.


Like wow, maybe even give them a little scratch behind the ears.

Are they throw him some peanut butter treats?

I don’t really know what werewolves are into.

But yeah, I thought we could, you know, be buddies.

Well, my knowledge of werewolves is admittedly, pretty limited.


And I would say it’s the extent of it is probably Twilight.

I was Team, Jacob.

I’m going to be honest with you on that and Harry Potter, you know, I feel like those are my only real insights into a werewolf and pop culture.


I know about like the, I’m a Back to the Future.

Heard so, because of Michael J.


I have seen Teen Wolf, but it did not impact me.

Unfortunately for mr.


His performance was not the same as launch.


A new Junior know.

Well, who’s could be, you know, you said I hear, I don’t know.

Well, there are the tropes that we’ve all heard.

There’s full moon.

Like, you mentioned earlier, the full moon is when the werewolf when the man is transformed to Beast.


If you will, the the notion that silver bullets are the only thing that can kill a werewolf is something I’ve heard and then it does remind me a little bit of a vampire in.

Yes, you have to get bitten, right to like become one and silver as well, but kind of similar floor.



It also reminds me of the Hulk and some ways because a lot of times they’re waking up naked the next morning not knowing what happened the night before.

Also drowns, like me in New Orleans.

All right.

But that same thought.

Okay, what do the Hulk a werewolf and Christine have in common?



You gonna go add that to riddles.com or wherever you pulled this truck?


Anyway, those are the tropes.

Those are the ones that I know.

Anyway, is that where your knowledge lies as well.

The buck stops there?

Yeah, the buck stops there.


The bark know that was bad too.

What is wrong with you today?

I don’t know you, you get one little taste of telling a joke and all of a sudden.

All hell, breaks, loose all hell, breaks loose.

And as far as werewolf, trials go.

This is something I didn’t learn until you told me about it on.


And that’s where you drink.

And I again have forgotten much of it.

But I do remember the drama the theatrics.

It was it rivaled the witch trials.

I would say I would say so too.

I will from what I have retained.

I would say so too.


I remember it being quite a big deal and being surprised that I hadn’t heard more about it.


So part of the reason that the Werewolf.

Trials are well.

Okay, I would say the werewolf trials are similar to The Witch Trials in that.

I mean, it’s very obvious similarities in that, you know, innocent people were being accused of something.


They couldn’t really disprove.

Almost are right.

Like there was no proof that it wasn’t true.


How do you do that?

I don’t really know.

And so in some very obvious ways, there are similarities, but whereas Witch Trials, involved more Supernatural accusations Werewolf trials, were a little different.


They often times had to do with cannibalism wild.

I know, I see the connection of like, eating people, right?

I guess.

But also, I don’t think one of the tropes I knew of werewolves is that they actually ate people.

I just thought they bit them and then ran off to me to.

I didn’t know that either breaking down walls, breaking down barriers here, because I did not know that they were just ravenous Killers.


I thought they were just ravenous biters.

That’s right.

We’re breaking the case wide open.

There’s also a little Satanism involved.

So, Why not what Holly and the just scary stories creating fear surrounding what people being werewolves.

So I cannot wait to get into this.


Do you remember any of the men who are accused historically of being werewolves?

I feel like I remember something about appointment.

I remember them ladder.

Oh my gosh, that talk about a recovered memory.

I remember, I remember only because how often do I use the word ointment?


And I was like, what is going on here?

So that was that All I remember, but I could not tell you the name of anybody know.

Okay, great.

Well, we’re going to meet some of the most famous ones.

So let’s begin with how we even got this concept of people turning into beasts to begin with from human to animal.


Let’s figure it out.

So long before we started putting people on trial for it.

The idea of this was written about in Works, including the poem, The Epic of Gilgamesh from Mesopotamia in 2100, BC.

I don’t know about you, but I had to learn about that in English class in 10th Grade.

I was I think our, our English 10th grade class was more Focusing on Beowulf.



I think those went hand in hand if I remember.

Yeah, I don’t remember Gilgamesh, but I do know an unfortunate amount of Beowulf.

So and his mother Grendel grandal was a piece of work.

Let me talk piece of literary work.


Let’s leave it at work.

A piece on a literal literary.

Piece of work is exactly what I was gonna say.

I’m so glad you understand.

It was also written about in a Greek mythology.

So we’re talking like, whoo.

Long, long, long time ago.


Yeah, it feels like most of these topics.


We cover on this show.

The spiritualism.

A cult stuff seems to stem back really far.

It seems whether it’s Gilgamesh or Greek mythology.

I feel like these topics are all real old-school.


I wonder if it has if it’s because like they didn’t have Christian root.


It’s like Greek mythology was intruding Christianity.

So maybe it was there’s more a cult history their interest if Not Christian that it must be Pagan, right?

I should be Satan.

It’s must be also like I can see like sacrifices to the gods that they go hand-in-hand there or like I think there was actually a Greek goddess of Witchcraft.




I don’t know the answer to that one.

My friend.

If you were to watch Thor.

His mother was a Norse god.

And she was also a wedge.

So you told me well, I think you just told me.

I think I just cracked the case.

No, I do think.


There was, there’s a Greek god of Witchcraft.

I would bet money on it.

So anyway, I guess that they grew up together in some way.

They had those connections.

Yeah, it makes sense and some of the basic stuff like the Mythos behind how things came to be.


I think it makes sense that some of that still lingers.

So the stories from Greek mythology are pretty close to what we’ll talk about today when it comes to real life werewolves accusations because like, I kind of alluded to it involved cannibalism the idea.

Being if you’re eating people, you must be an animal.


So I can see where that connection kind of happened in people’s minds.

Oh, yeah, there are also stories about human sacrifices and cannibalism rituals being performed in the name of Zeus.

So what ads?


Meanwhile Zeus is like, oh my God, please stop like I don’t want this didn’t I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait wait, it’s like why are we doing this for me?


Don’t put my name on this.

Well, some of those stories were about Zeus himself being tricked into eating human.

Maine’s because what a fun prank?


Can you imagine?

First of all, knowing a God, then knowing him personally that he wants to hang out with you, then tricking him and then tricking him into something like that.


Like yeah, tricking him.

And then taking it too far.

That’s a lot of steps.

It’s a lot of steps to get personal with Zeus and then piss him off like that.


Like today.

We have Ashton Kutcher.

Well, we don’t I guess in 2005, we did.

I mean we do but we had punks in like 2008 or whatever.


It was not necessarily the most modern day.


But the kind of pranking that went on.

There was slightly different from what apparently happened to those Greek gods.

I feel like in a world where Zeus and Ashton Kutcher know each other or have at least a person in between them.


I feel like I should have totally thrown a trick at him but it sounds like Zeus is probably not going to be happy about this.

I feel like he would hate also being on Punk’d.

Yeah, you know what Zeus he’s got a lot of important things to do and eating humans is not something.

I think that he’s looking to add to his.



And unfortunately, he’s, he was tricked into eating humans.

And so the punishment of course they had be punished.

He would turn the person responsible into a wolf as punishment.

Hmm, interesting.

So I think that’s, you know, that’s another connection there between werewolves and cannibalism.


I feel like if someone tricked me into eating humans and I had the power to do anything about it.

Turning them into a wolf is not on the top of my list.

I think maybe reversing time and not eating a human might have been right.

If I were God, I’d be like I just turned that into cheese and wine.


I don’t know.

That’s about as far as my magic powers are going to take me also, like, like they’re certainly getting punished if I can do anything about it, but a wolf is not like what’s happening here.

It will sounds like too nice of a life for you.

I think I would just if I could have the power to do anything in spite or and retaliation.


It would just be like, I would curse them to be slightly inconvenience at every moment.

At every moment.

You got to play the the low and slow.

Game, yes, terrified.

Not a Sprint, you know, yes, I guess that just doesn’t have as much Pizzazz though.

For one of these old mythological stories.


You know, they only had so much time to write these things out.

By hand, Philly, the long, the slow game is not something they wanted to write out and wait for during Story Time.

Alright, let’s get into the werewolf trials, em.

Talk about the theatrics, the drama.

All of it, only rolled into one.


Oh, yeah.

As we walk through the 15th to the 17th century.

We find the werewolf trials.

Took place in parts of Europe.

It’s a very similar time frame and locations to The Witch Trials, which is interesting.

So clearly these kind of went hand in hand in some ways.


Everyone was hurting in some way everyone.

This is being accused.

I couldn’t win.

Really is what I like to think.

Some of the werewolf blame was spun off of The Witch Trials.

So in Switzerland, some accused witches were blamed for adopting wolf forms and killing cattle.


So not only were they accused of being witches, but Then they, on top of that were accused for becoming wolves also and killing people’s cattle.

You would think that the witches and werewolves at some point, got sensationalized.

It’s like having some sort of affair with each other because if the werewolves are killing cattle, and the witches are destroying crops.


They’re just taking everyone’s food.

There is ever just eating and eating and eating magical buffets together up in the clouds.

They are having the most magical buffet and I wish I were invited cattle and corn cattle and corn.

That’s what that’s the real party.

It’s a classic also like the witch trials.


Generally, of course, it was the poor who were being targeted.

Throw figure.

Be a go figure seems to be a pattern here, but they were usually taking the blame for other people’s Superstition religious and political clashes.

So it seems like people had a problem and decided the blame had to go somewhere and why not?


As you like to say, kick them, all their down.

Tell me where it’s wrong to say that because Cuz that’s what I would say.

You’re a hundred percent, right?


Yeah, you point the finger at people who are already struggling and how are they going to defend themselves?

I don’t know.


Well the accused would end up confessing after being tortured which I think they conveniently called interrogated or questioned.


But we now know was often times torture.


What a nice pleasant way of making it seem like these people weren’t completely brutalized completely relies on forced into admitting.

Thing ridiculous.

Yeah, some historians think somewhere while suspects suffered from delusions or weren’t smart enough to understand the charges, which is an interesting notion that like maybe they didn’t even know to be fair.


It is a confusing thing to be accused of right?

Like sure.

I mean, think back to the witches, you are the weather, which is you’re stealing corn and giving it into the clouds.

Like that’s quite a wild thing to be accused of.

So, I understand why being accused of being a werewolf.

You’d be like, you think I’m doing what?

And yeah.


No, the night and eating children.

Rio also, if they’re if they’re saying that they think they suffered from delusions that also implies that people aren’t just targeting people who are poor.

But people who are mentally ill.

That’s a very good point there.

Just like find an every sort of person that is at the time seen as other or less than and just like, oh, you’re the problem.


Let’s like, even if we were to get rid of you, who cares, right?

Like the most vulnerable of society and take them and basically set this whole Whole entire historical phenomenon on their poor backs.


So after the torture they would end up confessing even though a lot of times perhaps are mentally ill.


Perhaps they didn’t understand what was even yeah.

What the charges even were and then eventually the educated and Elite stopped believing in the devil or animal transformation at all.

So suddenly they were too smart for it.

I guess they were right now.



Also like it must be Supernatural that you poor and mentally ill.

Tell people if I see Supernatural that you’re acting this way, but as educated folk thinking about animal transformation and the devil, that that sound, that like we’re cool with that, that’s makes total sense to us that goes all the way back to Gilgamesh.


Okay, so I wouldn’t even talk about educated.


Coming up.

I’m naming names, meet some of the most famous men who confessed to, or were accused of being werewolves and what led to their persecutions.


Were any of these men who confessed Lon Chaney jr.

Honestly, jury’s out, but probably, yes.


So, it’s sort of reminiscent of we’ve taught, I’ve talked about at least a lot about this on, and that’s why I drink of satanic panic in the 90s where everything was blamed on devil worshippers, and then kind of like a 180, it became sort of laughable.

Like, okay done.



But for a while there people were very, very I mean, really panicked.

Really paranoid about teenagers summoning, the devil, and it’s sort of the same idea with the werewolves.

Like they had their own Panic era, history just goes round and round.


Doesn’t it though?


Yep, doesn’t it?

Oh, yeah.

Well as promised I have a roll call of some of the most well-known werewolf cases so we can get into even more detail on how this all went down.

So we got Pierre burgo and Michelle for Dune in 1521 there.

These two Shepherds.

And they confessed to making a deal with the devil in exchange for food, which is really sad because I feel like all you’re asking for is food.


You must be pretty in a hard place, you know.

Yeah, things are that hard that you’re just so hungry or making a deal with the devil?

Yeah, it’s rough.

That’s super rough.

I will say.

And I’ve also been hungry and thought I was making a deal with the devil.

But no, I in this case like they were simply just probably probably poor.


I mean if they’re not if they Even afford food and like there, I guess allowing themselves to go that far.

Like they’re allowing themselves to have to make deals with the devil to Simply fill their bellies off.

They’re just hungry.

Yeah, it’s sad.

And they said they met a man in Black who gave them an ointment Christine.


I knew the ointment was coming.

Yeah, you did.

You called it.


I’ve used the word ointment and two different conversations and like the same year.

It’s crazy.

I feel like I’ve never said, white men are as much as I do, when I’m Talking about werewolves or somebody’s wasn’t that interesting little twist.


I mean, I say a lot as a parent of an infant diaper rash ointment, but I guess werewolves is really the second.

Most used term.

Do we know what type of women?

This was was a diaper rash.


It was an ointment.

I don’t believe it was a desert in, but it wasn’t meant that turned them into werewolves.


So I don’t know if that has a name but it’s it does what it says on the packaging.

I don’t accidentally give that one to your baby.

It would turn on.

Put it out on the bottoms.


Things will turn South really quickly.

They then hunted and ate children in the middle of the night.


So they were so desperate to eat food that they made a deal with the devil and they were so desperate to eat anything.

But the devil said, okay, I’ll give you food here as people here’s people.

And I mean, again, I’m assuming this is a result of some interrogation and I don’t these, I don’t know that these people were necessarily joint.


Commenting themselves up.

I think this is just another case of the panic gone too far and therefore both men were burned at the stake awful as punishment.

Very dark.

We got another guy.

His name is Jill Garnier and he was a poor man.


Of course who lived in the forest, in the Eastern, French town of Saint Claude.

And in 1573, he was accused of killing children.

I mean, these are very, very big He’s Asians killing children.


Also out of the famous cases, 242 now, it’s about killing children.

So I can understand why the first rail thought was of other people.

As like, I don’t even know if this is true or not.

But if they’re killing children at all, I want them to pay, you know, I’d like it’s like an immediate emotional response of probably, an anger response and a fear response.


I would imagine.

So he confessed after being tortured.

Of course.

He said he killed four children and fed their bodies to his Early on a Friday.

Oh, now I want to tell you that this is actually double sacrilege because, according to the church, one shall not eat meat on Fridays.



And then the other sacrilegious murder.

I assume is.


The the whole part about killing the children and feeding them to the family, but it was on a Friday which makes it just W as bad.

I feel like I’m gonna I’m gonna wager that probably more than just two acts of sacrilege happened around that time.


Those are the main ones.

Those are the two big ones that were talking about here.

Yeah, but you know the Catholic Church says someone who suffer.

I mean, grew up in the Catholic church.

I I will say, you know, on Fridays, you’re not supposed to eat meat, but they, that’s when they do the fish fry and I’m thinking isn’t a fish.


If that doesn’t count as me then I don’t know.

It’s all very confusing.

I feel like the church certainly is Christina.

I can tell ya, from an outside view looking within.

It is very I think the logic may be out the window out the stained glass window.


It’s really not in the window will tell you that not all the other side.

He was burned at the stake despite there being doubts.

He was telling the truth, which I imagine there could be doubts about any of these people but sure are such an extreme accusation, but I guess despite these doubts.

He was burned at the stake.


And then st.

Cloud’s Grand judge became convinced.

There was a bigger witches and werewolves problem in his town.

So they arrested even more and Charged even more.

Okay, with these crimes.


So first of all, imagine, you’re a judge of a small town.

This feels like a Halloween Hallmark movie.


We’re like, you’re already trying to protect your City from witches and out of nowhere.

Just werewolves are rampant.

What sorry this feels like something.

My like q and on grandfather would start talking about.

I like he’s like, there’s lizards and there’s, there’s wolves everywhere.


It’s a really good point, Emma.

And as you said, history repeats itself, just saying Three does repeat itself because q and on started with people wanting to protect children from that well trafficking ring.

You know what, I’m just saying.

It’s a little bit scary.

I’m seeing a couple of a couple overlaps here.


I’m seeing some patterns, the judge claimed he had seen werewolves in his courtroom on all fours and they had to be under the devil’s spell because how else could this be happening?


Of course, now, we have a little guy named Hans, the werewolf.




There was no evidence that young Hans ever.

Murdered anyone.

But he was still put to death in 1651 after confessing to being a werewolf.



Han said for two years.

He unwillingly transformed into a werewolf after a man in Black who turned out to be a werewolf bit him.



Now this is sad to me because he said he unwillingly, he did it unwillingly.

He said it’s not his fault this man who bit him.

That one does Megan so that makes it pretty.


And I like to assume that if any of them were Saying, AK, being tortured for information.


I’d like to thank all of them are probably saying like, Okay, maybe I’m a werewolf, but I don’t mean to or like I’m X, it’s not my fault.

Like it just happened.

So like right, right.

It probably goes in stages.

Yeah, like what are you gonna say?


I loved it.

I mean right?

Like you already.

Well, that does make it extra sad when you realize that they were also still trying to negotiate not getting hurt or something.


Yeah, it’s their fault.

It makes it really sad.

It’s a tough spot to be in and so This guy in Black who turned out to be a werewolf that bit him, of course, was considered evidence of Satan wolf, get it.

I do at his trial Hans showed the court his scar from being bitten as proof.



It’s really sad.

It turns out Hans was just a teenager scrambling to try and like appease, the people who were torturing him.

He just wanted out of the scenario.

His scar was actually from a dog bite and He was put to death in 1651.


It’s just really low sad.

I don’t know why.

I’m still surprised because there’s like you’ve been telling different versions of the same story, but it’s every single one of them is just so miserable.

It is, it’s sort of like a downward slope.

The second year accused of something like this.

There’s no way out.

How do you disprove it?


Especially if you’re a Hans, you’re saying like, look, here’s the B, here’s wait technically according to them.

It would have been evidence and it’s like he was just trying to like appease the masses and just get home.

You just want to be Home.

Well, probably the most infamous real-life werewolf, True Crime.


Story is the case of Peter stumpp.

Okay, in bed Berg Germany, bedbug saw a series of murders happen between 1564 and 1589.

And by the late, 1580s rumors of a murderous werewolf.

We’re going around because that’s what the rumor mill, created ice.


Cuz we’re on the set of a horror movie or something.

I actually have the gossip Mill is grinding away.

And werewolves are where it’s at.

So the story says that men tried tracking the animal down.

This this is upsetting and at one point cornered it and cut its left paw off, then they cornered it again and it transformed into Peter.



Okay, first off I feel like if you were able to corner a werewolf long enough to cut through its paw you had a corner long enough to To just kill it if you wanted to, if the plan was to kill a werewolf.


You could have done it.

I feel like they just were torturing anything that they could like it’s harder to cut off the Paw of an animal than it is to just kill it.

If you can other people are holding a wolf down long enough for you to cut down the pot.

They’re holding it down long enough for you to do worse.


If the whole point of this was to chase down and successfully hunt a werewolf, but you clearly don’t even want to do that.

So it’s not even the point apparently and then okay.

Now also it turned into a Human being here as well and not just any human being and it turned into Peter Peter.


Okay, it’s right.

And this is where this will start.

To kind of I say, makes sense, but makes sense is not really that one out, the window scene glass window a long time ago.

So this is where it starts to make some sense in a way where we don’t really know.


There’s a disconnect on what Peter’s last name.

Really is.


It could be stumped or in the German Stumpf or could be stumped with two peas.

He’s because Peter a farmer was also missing his left hand.

Oh and that was just as much evidence as like the dog bites car.


And also like can you imagine being someone who like, just doesn’t have a hand for some reason and like, you’re probably at some point had a period of time where you were wildly insecure about it, and now people are looking for you because of it because that’s their version of evidence that like, you deserve to die or at the very least.


I’m sure it was an inconvenience.

As a farmer in the 1500s, right?

Like, that is an excellent point, missing a hand.

And then, all of a sudden, that’s the thing that gets you accused of being, you know, this monstrous Beast, of course, he was tortured.


They tied him to a stretching machine, which is one of those things that I really hate to think about authorities brought Peter into questioning which, of course in the 16th century meant torture.

And after some time on the stretching machine, he Chest.


Because, why wouldn’t you?

I think all of us would, aha, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say he was doing it under duress under duress, at the very least.


Peter said, he practiced black magic since he was a kid, then he met a devil, who gave him a magical belt, which allowed him to transform into a werewolf when he put it on, and when he took it off, he became human again, but of course this belt was never found, but also, I just think if you’re a werewolf wearing a belt fashion fashion, how do you Get off in the body.


Take it off.


Opposable thumbs.


Here’s the other thing.

I wonder if Peter, which is like really sad, but like, I wonder if he knew at this point.

He was like, I’m gonna die.

I’m just going to see how crazy my story can go, and if they’re just going to believe it the whole way through and maybe I’ll say something so crazy.


They’ll be like this, can’t be true.

He’s lying.

Yeah, you wonder what the thought process is in that desperation.



I mean truly he could have been just wildly tortured and even he started to believe it.

Or maybe he thought that it actually made them.

No sense, compared to anything else, but I feel like if you’re going to go so far as to say, like a belt, which no one else has done.


And it’s such a weird, a weird way to explain how werewolves are created.

So I wind makes you wonder though.

If maybe the questioning went something like, oh, and like leading questions, you know, like oh, and did he give you a magical object?

Yes, you know, what was it?


Oh, yeah, Bell.

I wonder if maybe they led him into some of these quote-unquote facts or confessions, but I don’t know.

Yeah, it’s hard to say.

Because it’s recording, they believed him and decided he was telling the truth.

Okay, Peter said he ate livestock women and children for 25 years as a werewolf.


Wow, and of course this made him a cannibal I guess if it were true, yes.

By definition if he’s eating people by technicality, right?

So Peter was executed on October, 31st 1589, his death was very gruesome.


So we’re gonna spare the details on that one.

But it was slow and horrific.

So, you know, do with that information, what you will?

Yeah, just another sad tale of how you know, people got roped into this and really couldn’t find their way out.



Next, I’ve got some medical explanations for the possibility of the existence of werewolves and how pop culture has created their own interpretations.

Very exciting to see how we have gotten all the way from all those horriffic stories to like, Abbott and Costello Teen Wolf.


Oh, how’s it going further?

Be like, MTV like Tyler Posey.

Like what?

Like, what?


I’m excited to see how we, how we end up there.


Now we’re going to get into kind of the medical possible medical explanations for why werewolves might exist, why people would even confess to being a werewolf or why they would even think that they were one.

Okay, so doctors would testify that those who confessed possibly suffered from depression, Mania or delusions, but also there’s a thing The stretching table that might have had something to do with it.



The thing that I imagine only Renaissance fairy tales have, that were like, that’s that bad part before the someone comes to save, you only the German fairy tales the really dark ones.


I can’t imagine torture devices.

Existing in real life.

Just I can’t imagine.


And that person at the Renaissance Faire who refuses to go into the Torture Museum thing because I can’t.

Yeah, I can’t cope with it.

It’s too much.

I feel like if they’re saying that those who come fast pause.

Possibly had these things.

I would argue that they definitely had it after they confessed, like Prussian.




I would say they had a lot of issues after trauma, of being held somewhere tortured, knowing they’re going to die because it doesn’t like anyone survive to this.


I mean, the doctors work, I guess on to something.

I feel like anyone with eyes.


I could have made the same conclusion though.

So I totally agree and I feel like they conveniently forgot to kind of include Torture part.

But they did probably hit on something with the rest of it.

Like the depression.

I would totally agree.

Some doctors.

However, when a different route and concluded that it was it could definitely be Satan involved.



Well, I could always be say no matter what we’re talking about to be fair.

That’s always a possibility.


I cannot not be sure of that so impossible to disprove, like that’s the connection here.

Everything’s impossible to disprove.


I feel like doctors who are supposed to be about.

Like stats, and logic really, were just throwing anything at the wall, just to see what happens.

Doctors of that time were a crazy Bunch.


I mean, you could kind of just say, hey, I’m a doctor, right?

And lo and behold, if you could say something, as obvious as people being tortured are depressed later.


I think.

I think they’d be like, oh, gotta schedule.

My point with the doctor.

What did you see?



Well, there’s also diseases like porphyria which can lead to symptoms including sensitivity to light.

Reddish teeth psychosis and excessive hair growth so that could have been something.


That again, somebody who looks different from the rest of society, my girl targeted for that.

And then there’s your favorite punny were like anthropy, which is when someone thinks Sarah werewolf, and if you didn’t get em, Solaris joke earlier, what was the joke?



I think I set out saw something about me.

Liking the story like in it.

Yeah, that’ll all make sense to you.

Now, unless you just didn’t think it was funny to begin with I am Understand it’s a possible staying in the episode though.

So out of it is, it’s just that’s our decision.



So like a breeze when someone thinks they’re a werewolf and that could be from hallucinogenic, herbs, mushrooms, Etc.

So that could just be you and Jess something and it gives you a sort of delusion that you are a werewolf and that’s called lycanthropy that’s called so-called just tripping balls.


That’s the medical term doctor.

And yes precisely and so those are kind of the things That are possibilities as to why somebody would have confessed.

Those are possibilities aside from the stretching table, you know, but now we’re going to get into the cultural impact.


So besides your Abbott and Costello, you’re really timely hot off the presses reference Timeless.

Mind you time.

I’m sorry.

Your I’m wrong.

You’re right, the Timeless reference.

So there’s also Universal Studios movie, Werewolf of London.

From 1935 into the 40s.


Universal made more werewolf.

Movies, I guess this was just a Hot Topic at the time in 1981, There Was An American Werewolf in London, then we scooch a little forward to 1985 and we got Teen Wolf starring, Michael J, fox.



It is.

There’s my man.

There’s the one, one, and only.

And then in 2009.

We had the Vampire Diaries, that was definitely kind of our time and it had a few spin-offs.

And then there was Teen Wolf on MTV in 2011.

Another two class acts of our uh, Ewing were Twilight like you mentioned earlier highlight and True Blood and True Blood.


And there was also, you know, werewolf mentions in Harry Potter.

So I mean, it really is, has seeped very strongly into our pop culture like from the 30s onward.

Speaking of Werewolves of London.

Did you ever hear the song Werewolves of London?



So I used to listen to that as a kid with my dad and I’m pretty positive, Sweet Home Alabama, ripped off Werewolves of London because every time they start, you cannot Tell which one it’s going to be Werewolves of London.

Oh, Werewolves of London, but it’s the same music underneath just play.


Just everyone.

Here’s your homework.

Go listen to Werewolves of London and then listen to Sweet Home, Alabama.

And tell me it’s not the exact same song and then you make up your own opinion about that.

Do km.

I will be sure to do that later and I will, totally not forget.


So, all of these werewolf stories, I feel like the running theme between the Culture, version of werewolves is cute teen boys.

I feel like tends to be a running theme at least from what I remember these shows.

I also feel like we should mention that I’m not loving in Twilight.


That all of the Wolves were indigenous people and absolutely sidered beasts.


We could unpack that a lot more if we’d like, but let’s just mention and throw it into the world.

You do what you say.

We see it, you know, we see it, and we don’t like it.

I see it.



Yeah, so I think that was definitely something that probably in the 1500s wasn’t necessarily like, oh, let’s find the cute boy and like it was not as wrong.

Clearly, not as romanticized back then, as it is now, I think being a werewolf in 2000’s TV shows was a much cooler thing than it probably was in the 1500s and probably did not involve eating children.


It certainly has become weirdly sexualized, but also, you can argue.

So has every Every Cryptid out there, but werewolves are encrypted with an actual very dark past.

So that’s true.

That’s true.

People who’ve actually been hurts a really good point.

So what do you think, Emma?


How do you feel re learning all of this about werewolves?


Well, I really had no idea.

I one point.

I must have to have told you the story before, but with today’s brain, I really don’t think I was aware of the dark undertones.


I just, don’t even compare.

Are it in my mind to The Witch Trials, which is so wild because I feel like everyone knows something about the witch trials.

But you know, why aren’t the werewolf trials getting that same kind of energy?

I think in my mind, they were just some sort of fable or lore that didn’t come with all the really horrible cringe stuff beforehand.


So I’m glad that we’re bringing it to the Public’s attention, agreed.

I am very surprised about the earlier connections, even before the trials of like Zeus.

About did not see Greek mythology coming into this.

No, but yeah, I don’t think one Chaney jr.


Is a werewolf anymore.

That’s for sure.

You know what, and that’s the biggest takeaway and the biggest kind of growth moment.

I think you’ve ever had on any of our episodes.

If this episode was meant for anyone, it was for me to unpack, some some childhood stuff and I’m glad we did that.


It was really just an intervention for you or important.

It was a never mind.

I was going to do another pun and I am going to stop.

Thank you.

I’d also like to add em, I think you Made a really powerful point that is going to stick in my brain forever, which is how history repeats itself and how nowadays we still have people accusing other people of being various mythical animals, like perhaps a lizard.


We have people accusing people of unspeakable crimes involving children.

I mean, it’s you made that connection and I cannot unsee it.

I am always a little bit thinking about Cuba or not.

So, oh, that’s a dark life to live.


But yes, I understand.

I keep it at a very far distance, but I am always aware of it somewhere in the back of my Noggin.

And so probably I’ll should be just to keep ourselves aware and on our toes.

It’s a very interesting in real time frame of reference to when we talk about other stories from like it.


So it’s it is weird that we have not changed much as people.

Yeah, because you know, you see these topics and it feels so distant and far away and then you think about it and it’s like well wow, Human Nature.

ER still pretty same old.

Same old.



Yeah, so that really you blew my mind.


I’m but well, that’s I guess I’m out then that was what I wanted to do.

So you quit while you’re ahead.

So do you believe werewolves actually exist, is my last question for you.

The only one it could have ever been for me was mr.



And I think today we have broken the the vision we’ve crossed him off the list, huh?

I don’t think there’s a werewolf out there.

Obviously a big believer in Ghosts, big believer in Aliens, but the second it turns into like a Cryptid situation.

I have always agreed called that, I am open-minded, but I think I’m just even if decades ago.


There was someone who actually did have like excessive hair on their body or something.

Now we know with science that it was not, whatever they were claiming.

It was back then absolute and it’s very troubling connotation to accuse them of being some sort of Beast.


Yeah, exactly.


Kick them while they’re down.

They like, people are already aware if they’re not fitting into a certain of their differences, right?

And now you’re just going to like put them on full blast and also torture and kill them.

So yeah, I I’m going to just do a firm.


No, two werewolves.

Well, am I’m in the same camp.

I think it’s a dangerous thing to accuse people of this kind of thing for very obvious.

Historical reasons.

I guess I should say I’m going to side with you on this one and say probably not going to accuse anyone of being a werewolf.



Fair enough, even if I thought werewolfs it exists.

I’m certainly not going to point fingers and they want except launching jr.

He’s still slightly slight possibility.


Thanks so much for listening.

We’ll be back next week with another great episode information.

On today’s episode came from history, the conversation, history, collection and history of yesterday.

Remember to follow rituals on Spotify to get a brand new episode every week and you can listen to this and all other episodes of rituals for free exclusively on Spotify.


And if you liked this show, follow at Cast on Facebook and Instagram and at our cast network on Twitter.

You can follow me on social media at Eckstein Schieffer, and you can follow me at VM Schultz.

Thanks again for listening and see you next week.

Rituals is executive produced by Max Cutler and is a Spotify original from par cast.


It was created by Max color, sound design by Kristen Acevedo with associate.

Sound design by Jamie Ryan.

Fact-checking by Cheyenne Lopez research by Chelsea would it’s produced by Kristen Acevedo and Jonathan Ratliff with Adoption assistance by Ron Shapiro.

We are your host, Christine Schieffer, and M Schultz.