Rituals - E31 • The Ancient Mystical Order of the Rose Cross


If there’s one thing I know about you and me and it’s that we love a good secret society.

I’m so excited.

Imagine studying the mysteries of Life, maybe even finding some answers and then only sharing what you’ve learned with a secret group of people.


So like a juicy group chat.

Yeah, there you go.

It’s like its own little WhatsApp.

Just for all the secrets of Life, L League of Their Own Rosicrucianism, isn’t an attractive topic on Paper.

But in the world of spiritualism, the group story is fascinating and also has a pretty mysterious background in and of itself.


Well, you knew you had me at secrets and then you kept going with mysterious.

So I’m fully locked in.


Hi everyone.

And welcome to rituals a Spotify original Par cast.

I’m Christine cheaper.

And I’m M Schultz and every week, we’ll explore the evolution of spiritualism and the Occult through stories practices and the impact on Modern culture.

Today, we’re getting into a topic called Rosicrucianism, which is strangely at something, I learned about briefly in high school and vaguely.


Remember, but really, am excited to kind of delve into more this week?

I know it’s a secret society of sorts, but I am looking forward to you really teaching me Me the ways of it because I know very little what shocking.


But, I am very excited to become obsessed with it by the end of this episode, wonderful.

So let’s crack into it.


So, people used to ponder the universe in the past and in some ways, it doesn’t seem that way anymore.

Although, as somebody, who has always spent my life writing in journals.

Like, what is the meaning of life?

I think I might be the exception.

I’m not sure.

But, do you ever feel like you think about, you know, the meaning of life, the secrets of the universe.


I feel like that’s all I think about, but then, once my therapist told me I have existential OCD, so I don’t know.

That could be that coming into play.

Well, thank you for diagnosing me because Ha ha ha have the same thing.

I think about it all the time and I kind of keep it to myself now because in hindsight I was like one of those horribly obnoxious 14 year olds who like thought I was like the deepest mother effer in the whole galaxy saying like I watched Donnie Darko and the Eternal Sunshine spotless.


Internal spotless, whatever that one is.

I watched it like one time and I thought I’d cracked the case on the meaning of Dave.

So yeah, I think ink after I like kind of realized how like cringy I was I was like okay time to dial it back or at least, keep it private.

So, yes.


I like to still think about the meaning of things, but I don’t think I’m as intolerable as I once was.

Yeah, no.

I have the exact same feeling.

I wonder too.

If this has just become a more personal thing for people, rather than, like a group activity, like, yeah, shelving into the meaning of life as a group, you know, I gotta say talking about it in a group, though.


I know it was cringey to be 14.

But I really loved when none of us cared about how cringey an obnoxious we were, or we just had like, no awareness of that.

And all of us would just, I don’t know about you, but me and all my friends went through that phase, where we would just all sit together, just be like, what does it mean?


What does it all mean?

You’d lay on the trampoline.

And look at the stars and be literally, no, for were you there?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah probably just in a different coordinate on the United States map.

I do miss it a little bit.

I do miss it but I also hey, It’s do it.


All right, cool.


Gotta come over after this.


See you get the mini trampoline out.

We’ll put our heads on many lucky.

I was gonna say, we could like put her little toes on there.

That’s about it.

Well, do you think there are secrets to the universe that we haven’t discovered yet?


I like to think so.

I think there have to be if we’re talking paranormal right?

Like there have to be some things.

We haven’t quite cracked the code on, I definitely have their sayings.

We haven’t figured out yet to answer your question.


In terms of like Is there a purpose to all of this?

I don’t know, but I think to avoid myself from thinking about how Bleak it could all be to have no meaning, even if it’s just to keep myself from getting sad, I have tricked myself wonderfully into thinking that there’s got to be a reason for everything.


And I just, maybe I’m just not meant to know about it.

I don’t know, opiate of the masses.

It’s true.

Like why not?

You know, believe it if it makes you feel better.

Yeah, I’m very aware that.

Maybe there is no reason for all of this but maybe there is a reason for all this.


And like either were not meant to know or recent figured out yet.

I’m certainly not going to be the one to figure it out and I have made my bed with that.

So maybe I take it.

You feel the same way that there are definitely secrets that we just have yet to divulge.

Yeah yeah.

I feel like we don’t understand everything yet and I think some people think we do but I don’t feel like we’ve got a full grasp of it yet.


And yeah maybe I do just tell myself that for, I don’t know.

To feel better.

Do you think we’re supposed to know by now or do you think if there are secrets they are intentionally kept from us?

Or do you think like our stupid little human pea-sized?

Brains wouldn’t even be able to understand it?


Yeah, I don’t necessarily think there’s somebody out there like keeping the secrets from US.

Unless this is a simulation which is another Avenue I’m currently pursuing.

But as far as secrets of the universe I don’t think anyone’s necessarily like gate keeping the secret I think.


Maybe we’re just not at a evolutionary place to understand.


Yeah, you know, like if you could talk to an ax like explaining taxes, yes ma’am.


I feel like it.

If someone came to us and gave us the secrets of the universe, I would still be like, wait, what?

Yeah, that’s exactly it.

It’s sort of like, maybe you just gotta trust the process to a degree.


Yeah, no, yeah.

Look, we’re having our very own trampoline talk right here on Zoom publicly, which is the worst part of it all.

Oh, no.

Well, as far as Enlightenment maybe understanding the universe does, I mean, anything specific to you or is it just kind of a word?


I feel like it’s one of those words.

I like it has a definition.

I’ve never really liked, it’s so vague.

But it’s I understand it enough.

I’ve never really looked further into it and Beyond it just being like, kind of like a spiritual.

Aha moment, I guess is like, the best way for me to describe it?

I know a lot of people think of Enlightenment is like transcending, or maybe like, having answers and feeling content with those answers or like knowing better than to get in the way.


I feel like it’s like, Having like a wisdom to you that like you’ve accepted and understanding and understanding I don’t know, I certainly don’t feel enlightened.

Um, yeah, I guess that should have been the question around either.

It’s like really.

I don’t know how to describe it if I’m not it.


That’s a great point where the ant in this scenario.


Yes, yes, yes, 100%.

Does it mean anything to you?

I would probably be in the exact same camp as you as far as.

You know it means something on an intellectual level.

But I don’t know that like Well, I certainly don’t feel enlightened so I guess I could just jump on board with you and say the same thing.


I feel very confused all the time which I don’t think an enlightened persons of like buzz.

So I’d like to thank an enlightened person.

Would have a little bit less constant, underlying anxiety, but maybe that’s part of it.

I don’t know, fair enough.

So those are all very surface level thoughts when it comes to Rosicrucianism.



So we’re at a shallow level here.

We can’t even begin to understand the depths of this rosicrucian.

You know, I’m totally fine with that.

I will not lose sleep over that.

I don’t think so.

We’re on the outside looking in, and that’s okay with me.

Yeah, the rosicrucian order has a very mysterious past, but the overall belief system isn’t like super far fetched.


Do you know anything about Rosicrucianism?

I feel like this question comes up in every episode of Rachel’s.

Just to remind me that the answer’s.

No always know.

I will say again, Shameless shout out to all of our lovely researchers who find topics that we know.


Think about and I we are very, very lucky to be in a position to get to learn about it.

Alongside everyone is listening to those.

Oh yeah, I had my Heyday when we talked about Harry Houdini and I’ll just never have a moment like that again.

No, you are on top of it with that.

You had like extra fun facts.


You know, I remember a chapter of one of my textbooks being about Rosicrucianism and I don’t think I grasped it fully at the time I think.

Now I get a better idea of like oh this is a lot more interesting than I thought.

I remember like very specific symbolism like, We elaborate crosses and, you know, that kind of thing.


So I did have a vague understanding but really not like as much as I’m going to share with you today.

Sure, as far as secret societies Go, I mean you’re all about a secret society.

I know this about you buy medicine your Society.

So I just feel like saying you’re in a secret society though, doesn’t that defeat the whole point of being in a secret society?


I think it’s that you’re in a society that has Secrets I see okay because I wonder okay yeah that’s a great point.

So a society with Secrets, not necessarily that the society is secret away from the rest of the world, I prefer it to be that way.


So I’m in the Odd Fellows and I feel like they wouldn’t be able to like host events and then come to them.

If we weren’t allowed to tell people that we were Odd Fellows, you know, I mean, I see what you’re saying.


So like, I don’t really know anything about them.

Do you feel like they’re genuinely like secrets that you could not ever share with me that, you know, from this group like if there was like Like a gun to my head.


I would sing like a bird.

Let’s put it that way, but so there are really secrets that you guys are more like a.

I mean yeah, like I wouldn’t especially talking into a microphone publicly.

I wouldn’t say like what the, like, the nature of the secret.

Yeah, I really don’t want like an Odd Fellow to email me later and feel like you should have said that.



I’m an Odd Fellow me.

You’ve shared all our secrets.

I don’t know if there’s any like world changing.

Like I’m holier than thou or better than someone else because I know like an Illuminati secret, mainly the secrets are like, the rituals are like the like what you talked about in meetings and things like that.


Like, which is so ironic that we’re literally on a show called rituals.

And I can’t tell you about my rituals but no, no, listen, keep it a secret.

I’m not pressuring you to share.

I think that’s interesting because I don’t really, I mean, as someone who was not even in a secret side, I was not ever even in like a society.


Like I was never in a fraternity or sorority.

So I’m like, very out of the loop in this whole world, you know, I love a good Society.

Also, I will say the Odd.

Fellows is fun.

Well, let’s put it this way to, like, when it comes to, like, if there are secrets about like a new world order or something, I have not been enlightened to be clear.


Also, I easily scare so, like, if something happened in the Odd Fellows that I was not vibing with I would not be there.

Let’s just put it that way.

You’d FaceTime me like, help me, but I think there is not a lot of people like secret societies, which 100% Can attest to is, I just somebody asked me, like, you know, that superlative game of like, who’s most likely to?


It said, like who’s most likely to join a secret society?

I think everybody who knows you would vote you.

Thank you.

Well, I still have a personal grievance that I’ll never have closure on it because in college, I went to a school where there was a secret society that all we knew was the acronym was pif, and so they were called piff.


I was desperate to be in this ear.

At Society.

I was like, how dare they not invite me?

What do they have against me?

That was what I thought.

I never liked science, everybody.

But I was like, I just want to be in the secret society, so damn bad.

And then there was another secret society called The Society of the severed hand, what and I wanted to be an either of them so badly, but I think you weren’t and I wasn’t.


But I know that a lot of different departments at my school had a secret society.

So I think the Society of the severed hand, it was like only like English Majors could get in or something.

But GIF.

No, one seemed to know anything about paf but I have a feeling because the only thing they were known for is they would do random acts of kindness.


So I was like I have to be in this.

I really thought you were of say violence and I was like it ran back some kind of still, like I don’t know if they still do it, but during like finals week you would always find like a random like act of kindness.

That was like a public display.

So, like one year, they had like a kiddie pool full of like, rubber duckies with, like a good like, fortune on the bottom of it.


Oh, next will be a sign that’s like, from Pif, good luck on your finals and so I feel like it was like the Alumni Association and I feel like pif meant Pay It Forward.

Oh, that’s cute.

So they’ll wonder I wasn’t able to get in because I wasn’t an alumni.


That’s what I would tell my team, get in, if you’re not even sure who’s in, you know what I mean?

Like, that’s I know kind of the fun of it.

Well so what is the I guess the appeal to you?

Because you’re the ultimate person who’s like into this like what’s the appeal to you?

Just like belonging in something and maybe back then?


It was like I really wanted the like the fun felt like especially in college with like piff and all them.

I don’t like not being included.


But now as an adult like why I joined the Oddfellows is like I first of all the name but doesn’t take much to earn.


My loyalty.

Don’t blame you for that for one second but I do like the idea of community.

I love the idea of community and when you wrap it in something that’s kind of mysterious, it’s like spooky community and I’m like, oh yeah I want that and before getting Into the Odd Fellows.


I don’t know what to expect, but in my mind all secret societies kind of have this, like are about them, that feels very Illuminati or Freemasons like oh maybe they know something like hmm I think I was just too nosy as like I want to know what’s going on.

So I walked right into the Freemason place here because it was an open house weekend, a lot of house in our neighborhood had like an open house at Christmas time.


And so my mom and I were like, let’s walk into the Freemasons and see what happens.

Yeah, so we Then and they gave us a tour and they let us sit on like the throne and everything fun and yeah, it was a little fun and then a little weird it got a little weird because I think women are not supposed to sit in the throne and he got in a little bit of trouble with his other cohorts but you know I got a little Glimpse in and I said this isn’t for me.


Thank you though.

Yeah well I think I just the nosiness of me like if I could sit in on a meeting at every like Society I would totally do it just to know like what it’s all about.

But I guess this is like fulfilling the whole point, right?

Of a secret society is like people will want to know but they can’t because it’s a secret society and so it was like has that mysterious about it forever?


Yeah it makes a lot of sense.


Anyway that’s why I would and have joined.

So cool cool.

Yeah I love it to know what Rosicrucianism is all about.

We need to break down the secrets, your favorite word of the rosicrucian order.



In English, the group’s formal name is the ancient.

Order of the Rose cross.

Oh, rosicrucian Rosa gracious cross, there we go.

Which is why you’ll also see the acronym A Mor.


See, a mark, That’s what I’m calling it.

If you don’t I will.

So you may have guessed and you just did that.

The symbol for the group is a rose and a cross join together.

And this symbol the cross symbolizes, the human body and the rose symbolizes the individuals unfolding This which I think is very interesting.



Symbolically I love a good symbolism.

Love it together.

The rows of the Cross represent the experiences and challenges of a thoughtful life.

Well-lived nice.

Like I could get behind that, you know.

Yeah, so far I am on board.



Especially because Rosicrucianism is not affiliated with any religion.

And I think this is what threw me when I learned about this in, like a theology class in high school because the cross, I think always just spoke to me.

Is like, well, this must be some sort of branch of Christianity, but I guess you’re really not affiliated with any religion.


So let’s get into what their belief system is all about and where it all came from.


Well we have both the mystical stories that have been passed down for Centuries by word of mouth and that’s basically similar to any spiritualists or occult groups history and then we have actual facts and dates of how Rosicrucianism came to be.


Oh I love the combo deal of like we got a little oral history.

We got A little fun facts like actual fact.

Yeah, like actual history, like maybe I don’t want to say oral histories not actual history, but like actual details that are can be confirmed and then just more of like a retelling haha.


So, very different than probably what you were thinking and your theology class, 100%.

Yeah, clearly.

I didn’t pay very close attention, which I mean surprised to know one, I’m sure.

Yeah, modern-day rosicrucians will point to their mythology originating from three books from the early, 1600s over all the books, Physical and spiritual Alchemy, the Kabbalah mysticism, scientific advances within Protestant, Christianity, and a society discovering the secrets of Enlightenment.


So badass, a casual little gamut of sources but it does go back even further than that the origins of Rosicrucianism actually date back to ancient Egypt approximately 1500 BCE well.


So way back.


So, like really far really far, not a hop and a skip away.

Like Like know, all the way back.

Okay, like super super duper far back, right?

So the origins of Rosicrucianism date back to ancient Egypt, approximately 1500 BCE when special groups of people, or schools were formed to explore, life’s mysteries and secrets.


So, sorry, how do I get the invite to that?

I know sign up me up.

So, I mean, a secret society, I guess, but for some reason, it seems so much more fun back then.

I don’t know why, but that’s, he’s very silly.


I’m very Here about this.

I am peeking ends interest.


Yeah, by serotonin levels are at an all-time high right now.

I’m kind of flustered, so you had to show a real deep interest in mythological, knowledge, and passed certain tests to be considered for these groups, which is oh my God.

Also appealing to me because I’m like, oh so you have to like be a certain you know fulfill a certain criteria to get it and it’s not just like anybody can pay 50 bucks and get in.


Well so it’s like so it gives you the wonderment of like could I I pass the test like, yeah, what would it take?

And I don’t know if I really have a, I have a deep interest and mythological knowledge, but I don’t actually have a heavy set of skills and that like I have an interest but you know, education.


Like I don’t think I qualify.

I also think we probably wouldn’t qualify just based on other aspects of our lives in general, but I don’t know because I mean, like, let me give you an example members of this Elite group included.



So now Ronald Egypt so I think maybe I don’t know.


Maybe in some past life we were up there with the ruling class, but I don’t know, I don’t know.

I just want to say, maybe we wouldn’t be invited, you know, wherever it feels a little.

I don’t know if it’s right to say but feels a little Illuminati you so far because a lot of people think the like dignitaries and like, it feels kind of elitist.


Yeah, you know.


But I don’t know.

I don’t want to say that in like a negative way but it seems like you did have to be kind of a certain, a certain some milk.


So like I said, Members of this Elite group of deep thinkers included, Pharaoh’s who ruled Egypt around that time, who allowed it to actually affect the direction of Egypt’s religion and philosophy.


Wow, that’s how deep rooted this was, wow, centuries later.

There were Greek philosophers who made their way to Egypt and were initiated themselves into the mystery schools, mr.

So school’s history school, that sounds like saying you and I would join, I would like a PhD from Mystery school and I’d like it now and it’s written in crayon.


So those philosophers would bring back to the Western World, what they learned in these mystery schools and the records of what they learned is.

What would then plant the seed to becoming the rosicrucian order.

I’m with you very cool.

Backstory in my opinion, a major part of the orders history.


Also passes through Alchemy and we’ve said it before, but Alchemy seems to pop up in a lot of these topics that are, you know, kind of traditional old school.

Yeah, all Over the place, a cult topics, and that would make sense for a group asking questions about natural law.


The Alchemists were also exploring the natural elements and how they worked and trying to figure out how they could manipulate them and control them.

So, you know, I can see why they would go hand in hand, it’s definitely.

Now, this is where maybe the word of mouth part.

The oral history comes into play according to those three books are manifestos that more modern-day rosicrucian is quote, there was a German Doctor, Christian Rosen kreutz, Okay.


Present crates like rosicrucian.

Oh, didn’t even cross my mind.

What I mean, you were absolutely valid and waiting for me to connect the dots are sorry.

I didn’t know how to say it in The Savvy.

Clever way.

But yeah, his name was Christian rosin core.

Its there is a very coincidental situation there.


Well, so the idea is that this German Doctor.

Christian Rosen kreutz started.

The order at the turn of the 15th century.

So, it wasn’t a coincidence.

It was like, it’s named after him, right?

I see.

That’s One of these ideas apparently Rosencrantz traveled around the Middle East toward Jerusalem, learning all he could about hidden life, secrets and Mysteries and he then put together a secret group that would over the centuries.


Evolved into Rosicrucianism.

Ha ha.

Okay, I’m there with you now.

Yep, so essentially the idea as part of this oral history is that he learned these secrets and developed this group and overtime.

Yeah, it became named after him in a way, got it.


On the other hand, Some Scholars today, claim that Rose and kreutz never existed at all.

Plot twist plot twist.

Coming up more on the mystery of Christian Rosen kreutz where he and those three manifest is surreal Foundation of Rosicrucianism question, mark trick question because we don’t even know if he existed.


That’s right.

Factually, we’ve tracked, the origins of Rosicrucianism back to ancient Egypt and through three manifestos from the 1600s.


And I just want to point out, I think it’s really cool that factually speaking.

I mean, we already talked about how there’s this combination of kind of oral history and like written like factual history.

I think it’s so cool that were able to First suretrack this back all the way to 1500 BCE.


Obviously, that’s the coolest thing ever that.

It’s not part of the like myth.

It’s like no this actually was traced back this far.

I think that’s very cool.

Pretty unheard of yeah, you can get that far back.

On fact.


Someone we were just talking about ancestry.


Genealogy was like I got back a couple generations and was like, oh man, I got back to like hmm, maybe 70 years ago, maximum and then it was just all hell broke loose.

So so we’re impressed by this.


Yeah, 1500.

See situation, one of those manifestos is the chemical wedding of Christian Rosen kreutz which sounds like Fall Out.

Boy song.

Sounds like My Chemical Romance and follow only mixed together their combo album.


It’s a symbolic work that follows this German Doctor.

Christian Rosen crates through a mystical wedding.

That’s actually an allegory it’s an alchemical allegory oh my God, you know, just your classic alchemical.

A just your everyday run-of-the-mill everyday run-of-the-mill.


We’ve all been there in this book.

Alchemy isn’t about turning base Metals into gold.

It’s actually about a person being enlightened through a spiritual process somewhere.

My English teacher, her brain is breaking at the Creativity, like this is a Cheesy gapping.


All of us would do on our assignments.

They’re like, you know, simile metaphor allegory.

I’m like, I don’t follow, but this, I follow.

Yeah, this is why I always disappointed my teacher because there’s people like this.

Making me look bad glass, exactly.

The other text, talk about how rosenkranz traveled around the Middle East toward Jerusalem, learning all he could about hidden life, secrets and Mysteries.


Many of the lessons allegedly learned by Rosen crowds were related to her medicine.

Mm and gnosticism and if you don’t know, gnosticism says the path of Salvation is through knowledge.

So it’s this idea that like you need to acquire as much knowledge as possible and that’s kind of how you can Elevate yourself.


Enlighten yourself knowledge is power, knowledge is power, M gray.

Oh yes.

Said by gnosticism and Schoolhouse Rock, so I was going to say of the ultimate highest order Schoolhouse Rock are religious text if you will.


Our moral history in our secret society.

We just know the preamble to the Constitution, that’s and that’s it.

That’s our secret.


The secret is, we don’t know anything that’s going on, we don’t know anything besides that, that little fun song and hermeticism provides knowledge through Alchemy astrology and theurgy.


Now theurgy Googled how to pronounce this word.

It involves invoking God’s and Pirates.

So whoa.

We’re right.

Just silly little things like invoking gods and Spirits.

Just a light invoking.

This is a simple everyday invoking and then, you know, combined with Alchemy astrology.


So, really speaks to me on some level when he went back to Germany, he got seven acolytes together, swore them to secrecy and basically formed what would later become the rosicrucian order mice.

Good for him, I wonder if that’s such an important number.


And also, how did he vet them like was there an eighth potential?

And then he was like, absolutely not passed the test.

Yeah, that’s very interesting.

You know, 7 is a very biblical number.

I wonder if that’s a coincidence or not but also doesn’t 8 represent infinity, I don’t know.


And my mind, I feel like I guess every number is got a meeting.

He was the eighth, he collected some people and he’s the eighth.

Now, it’s an infinity symbol.

Wait a minute, the researchers I progress like we did not say say any of this, please don’t the researchers.


Like, why is that what gave you chills?

And none of my hard work.

Your fake facts that you made up on the spot?

Those are the ones that gave.


Oh boy.

Well, I would like one day if I could request anything Park as researchers, all of our stupid questions.

Let’s have a reunions episode where that’s just all the information on the script.


We just pulled out all the stuff that’s on The Cutting Room floor that we made up and make a big fake episode.

So he went back to Germany, got these seven acolytes the other sworn to secrecy created this secret group, that would later become the rosicrucian order.


So that’s the story behind this resin crates and to keep it all going.

They created an initiation system where they would choose a successor.

And in 1484 this Christian Rosen kreutz died at 106 years old.

Whoa, he certainly knew something he knew how to take care of himself.


I’m saying some sort of secret whether it was like the And diet or I don’t know what it was, but he knew something that was keeping him healthy and alive for a long time.

My grandfather, he’s turning 97 this year and he’s always said that the reason he’s always stayed so sharp for so long is because every day he has a banana and a glass of gin.



So that gives me hope for my own future just going to leave it at that matter.

You know spoil his Secrets.

But if you want to make it to 97 that has been the only constant in his life.

If this whole time a banana in the morning and some Gin and the afternoon and that’s it.

Okay, this is the basis upon which Emma and I are founding our secret society and it’s basically you just have to eat a banana and a glass of gin every day.



To prolong your life and we also know the preamble to the Constitution, a perfect.

Well I don’t know if it’ll work for anyone.

I will say my grandpa’s name is lucky so for all I know he’s secrets are just his secrets are just absolutely like her him off the rails and just only worked His favor.


So, who knows?

I’m gonna take his word for it just for my own benefit.

Perfect, drink your gin.

Yeah, makes me feel better.

You know about my own habits.

Yeah, that habits so Christian Rosen courts, he dies at 106 years old in 1484 and was buried in a concealed grave but his secret group continued on for 120 years.


Pretty cool.

Pretty cool.

Then, in 1604 one of the members opened Rosen crisis tomb and found.

Ange inscriptions in a manuscript in Golden letters.

Whoo, ah, thank you.

This all group.

They’re like, our whole purpose is to know all the World secrets, but we did not see that coming.


Like also, are you supposed to be digging in his grave?

I feel like maybe that’s a room.


Like you’re not supposed to be taking about what’s going on after tomb.


Where are you supposed to do that?

I love that they were just like what a shock.

Yeah fine.

The secret on the wall.


After that members decided, it was the right time to publish the manifestos and reveal their existence.

So they’ve been like in secret like fully and secret this whole time and now they are bringing their existence publicly to bring in new members, essentially, so they’re going to start, I guess recruiting.


It’s a good story for PR of like well we’re expanding because we recently found a Manifesto that even we can’t explain see a new openings hop on board.

Help us out.

Now, as I said at the beginning of the episode, some Scholars today, claim that Rosen creates never existed.


So with all this flowery talk of his hundred and six years and his Mysteries and his golden letters, some people say, actually this guy was not even real.

And to be fair, there’s actually no proof of rosin courts or his secret group.

Also not a good look, hmm?



But there are some theories One says, Rosen kreutz was a Swiss Alchemist living from 1493 to 1541.


A another theory which just is like a complete 180, is that he was an Italian.

Ex-monk who was burned by the Inquisition for heresy.


In 1600, all righty, if I were as and cried said, be hoping.

I’m the first one.

And another says that Rosicrucianism was the result of radical protestantism So, like Rosencrantz isn’t even part of this conversation, okay?



So we’re really just throwing theories of the wall.

Oh yeah, these are three different theories as to where Rosicrucianism came from, basically the telephone game, you know, we’re passing on information and was he real?

Yes, but he was a Swiss guy, yes.


But he was this monk know, he’s not real at all.

It’s hard to say.

All right.

Either way, we can thank Christian Rosen.

Kreutz, real or not or the three.

Manifestos that came after him but Rosicrucianism really caught on and started to spread.

Interesting, interesting, interesting.


Interesting, during the 17th century, the idea of elevating scientific knowledge to make life.

Better became All the Rage in Europe.

What a fun fact.

But A New Concept.

So you think old idea, are you telling me things don’t have to be like this?


Hang on?

I know.


I mean to make sense I guess like they were just like Like going through it so I can understand there’s a lot before that.

Yeah, that they had to focus on I guess.

Yeah, before science became All the Rage but is interesting to think there was a time before you know, we thought science could help make our lives better.



And this was when people were dealing with political instability religious conflict, right?

You know, seeking answers.

So, you can understand why that might have come about.

And with that, those manifestos, got bumped up the popularity chain or like the bestseller list, I guess if you want to put it that way.


New York Times had come in to its fruition yet.

So, but if they had, I think these manifestos would be right on up there, okay?

Maybe like the self-help, how to but yeah, no, yeah.


Miscellaneous ice.

So they got bumped up the popularity chain and the info in the manifestos spread quickly, suddenly these rosicrucian ideas were making the rounds among emerging intellectuals, including the English philosopher.


Francis Bacon.

Wow in the late. 17th century Francis Bacon.


Push the formation of the rosicrucian Arts and Sciences in America.

All right, so he is helping spread the word historian Francis Yates wrote in her 1972 book, The rosicrucian Enlightenment that the manifestos helped prompt a new way of thinking about the world which seems like was what people were seeking new answers new way of looking at things.



I would have 100% been in the rosicrucian circles I think of at the time.

Yeah I feel like I would have been Definitely intrigued.

Definitely intrigued.

I would have gone to a meeting.

See what it’s about?

Yeah, if they let me in, I don’t know if they let me in.

Because like, my next bullet literally says educated men started, forming their own secret societies.



Well, once again, I don’t think I’d be invited but like, I maybe we can make our own like outcasts group, you know.

Yeah, those are called witches, my friend.

So I thought, oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

You know what?

You’re right.

That’s why I feel like my past lives had a lot of Torment.


Some bad decision making perhaps.

So the mythology, like I said, of this group of the secret group also had its influence and educated men were forming their own.

Secret societies all over the place which like I like that like this Society like wasn’t good enough.



They’re like, let’s do our own one.


The worst.

So educated.

We have exceeded our space for this.

We have to go somewhere else like yes and like, oh, that one’s fine.

But we also want to do this but ours is better and we are starting from the ground up.

Up with no real background.


However, we know the secrets now.


And also, you have to pay to get in and it’s a pyramid scheme in the end.

And also only educated men allowed, because there are no educated women, no such thing.

No such thing.

Oh, your voice.

Heard to static.

When you said that, I can’t even hear it.


Those are your eyes graying over.

I’m a friend.

Okay, so over time, rosicrucian groups made valuable contributions to the newly emerging American fields of printing philosophy.

The Mrs. And arts, which is pretty cool, American leaders, including Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine.


Were reportedly connected with Rosicrucianism?


I just think that’s really cool.

You know, to throw back to ancient Egypt the Pharaohs.


And now we have like still all male leaders which you know and maybe a little westernized or Americanized and now I’m well maybe becoming a little westernized but it is kind of fascinating to think like you know we can trace it all the way back to these leaders.



Egypt and now, you know, more modern-day still kind of the same.

Yeah, idea.

I just think that’s pretty cool.

It also lets, you know, I think that like, I feel like a lot of people forget that, like, beliefs that come from our, I don’t know about founding fathers, but early on notable people feel like their beliefs still came from somewhere.



Just a good reminder of like they didn’t just like come up with her own ideas.

All the time, everything.


Founding fathers.

So, the mid-1800s is when we got what will become modern Rosicrucianism, and it was originally intertwined with the Masons actually until 1858 when dr.


Occultist and writer Pascal, but keep your shout-out, got involved and we’ve covered him before.

So if you want more info on PBR, check it out.

The rosicrucian order settled in Pennsylvania.

And today actually owns land in Bucks County.


Pennsylvania fun fact, cool, right?


Yeah up next Rosicrucianism still thrives today.

It may surprise you how far this mystical order stretches across the globe.


I’m going to guess it stretches across the globe.


How did you know that?


Just a guess.


The 20th century saw the start of two of the most successful rosicrucian organizations, the first being the ancient mystical order of the Rose cross, you know, a more kind of them you’ve heard of them which was founded in New York City in 1915 and its founder H.


Spencer Lewis said he was a student of the Rosicrucians.

Oh then there was a second most successful rosicrucian Group which was the rosicrucian fellowship and its founder.

Got his rosicrucian education in Germany and the rose.

Christian Fellowship was actually founded in Seattle in 1909.


Oh okay.

So we really hopin really hopping all over the place.


All over the place a Mork.

I really don’t know if that’s how you say it.

It sounds right.

Sounds really silly.

It sounds right.

Some be great at the same time.

I’ll just say morc in case that’s the right one, I will say.

Everything we do sounds right but silly or sounds wrong, but silly sounds wrong, but also silly.


That’s a great Point.


So who knows a Mark has more than 200,000 active members worldwide and is found in more than 450 cities.

It is.

I like this part, nonprofit, non-religious and non-political, and I’m officially a rosicrucian.

Look at that.



Because you didn’t pass all the secret test.

You’re right, yet?

You’re right.

You’re right.

But I am a fan.

Let’s put that way.

Yeah, it’s really An interesting concept members continue to study natural and spiritual laws in order to get everyone to live in harmony, which I think is a goal that we can all appreciate your.


And I am kind of with, um, we should check.

If Burbank has a rosicrucian order, I would certainly snag a brochure from their main office from the front lobby.

I’ll Download a pdf and see what it’s all about.

Yeah, it sounds like a group that I could join.


I love the irony that this mysterious group but searches for answers It doesn’t even know if like their founder really exist, but that seems to be like every secret society, right?

It’s very funny.

Cause I always hear that that like, oh, maybe you was real, maybe he wasn’t.

Yeah, who knows?


Yes, at the very least, we know that those manifestos were real and they did come from that at the very least.

So at least we do know like, they know, you know, a good chunk of their history.

Their still like written down fact somewhere.

Yeah, exactly.

So yeah, do you think it’s strange that this Tire movement.


I’ll give you a spoiler.

I don’t think it’s that strange.

That this entire movement can be traced back to men meeting in private to talk about what they’ve learned about the world.

That seems to be most of the history of most things, I think, on this planet.

But yeah, no, no, it is not weird to me.

I feel like there’s nothing men have historically, loved more than to go into a room away from like feeble minded women and discuss what they know about the world brag about things.


They claim to know better than anybody else.

Like yeah, that Does not Shock Me really at all.

I Hope they’ve, at least made updates to like some original beliefs, because I feel like if a lot of this stems from white men in rooms away, from everybody else, like kind of deciding how things are going to go, right?


I like to think that if this really is a belief system based on like there’s some science involved like they are one of the only ones with like some sort of factual history like to thank every now and then they check in there.

Like you know what, maybe we need an update.

Like, let’s keep researching.

Let’s actually figure out like what this is all about.


I’m happy to tell you that.

I have a little bit of an answer for you here.

Oh, I’ve joined, I’m not joined.

I’ve joined, I am a rosicrucian.

I’ve entered the rose, cross order website.

And I’m reading the invitation to affiliate.

And here, this is what you need to become a member, okay?



We carefully.

Select those, who believe have a true desire for greater understanding and wisdom only those who humbly aspire to.

The greater light and request.

The secular knowledge of the Rose cross order are admitted if you sincerely desire.

The inner knowledge taught by the rosicrucian the knowledge that sets worthy, men and women of Good Will free you too.


May request admission as an aspirant to the Inner Light, aspirant aspirant mono.

It also says, if you are only curious, please don’t bother to request admission.

It is certain that your application will be rejected.

I got it.

Okay, so actually never mind, I don’t know.


Sure for you, man.

I just want to see what it’s all about.

So you have to like blindly commit, I’d totally blind.

There’s a lot of information on here.


You have to really confidently.

Be like I want to be very involved in this and I want to 110% commit to being part of this.



Well, as someone who loses their luster after a fortnight, as we’ve mentioned before tonight, yeah, maybe I should take a back seat for now.

But if you commit and then let Me know what’s going on.

I think I need a buddy on the inside first.


So like someone who knows me, I need them to be like, oh, you’re gonna absolutely go crazy for this.

We gotta go like right you need a reference to be like yeah I totally got you.

Yeah, well I’m going to read more into it because again they really want you to be fully aware of what you’re signing up for and I feel like sushi a are yeah I do too.


I ever stood fast.

Oh dear.

Well it looks like there really is a something called a professional.


Hmm, even one God.

So you know maybe this isn’t for me, we’ll see I’ll do some digging and noticed the how much of this is for me or not?


And then if not we can just make our own right?

Yeah yeah yeah.

Still on board for that.

If you are I’m happy to start building our own faith and people and again, just add, you don’t even have to really be committed.

That’s fine.

We’ll take ya.

Oh no.

Yeah you can be as flight as you want.


I do.

It will give you a brochure actually encouraged because none of us.

Us really want to make it to the meeting anyway, so we might not even go.

Yeah, you might be sitting in a room by yourself be like, what is this all about?

I don’t know.

Well, thank you for teaching me everything.

There is to know and the most basic level of resolution has mm.


Apparently, it’s far from everything we need to know because there are a lot of links on this website.

If anyone wants to check it out.

It’s rosicrucian Dash order.com.

So all right, it looks like there are a lot of little sections that might teach you.

You know, whether this group is for you or not.


Check it out.



Thanks so much for listening.

We will be back next week with another great episode information.

On today’s episode came from a Mork dot-org.

Rosicrucian dot-org Britannica, Atlas obscura the New Yorker, Newsweek one, dream daily, the Straight Dope, and the rose cross a historical and philosophical view by Carl Edwin Lindgren.


Remember to follow rituals on Spotify to get a brand new episode every week and you can listen to this and all other episodes of rituals for free exclusively.


And if you like the show, follow at Park asked on Facebook and Instagram and at podcast Network on Twitter, you can find me at the M Schultz and you can find me at Eckstein Schieffer, thanks again for listening and we will see you next week.


Rituals is executive produced by backs Cutler and as a Spotify original from par cast, it was created by Max color, sound design by Kristen Acevedo with associate.

Sound designed by Kevin McAlpine fact-checking.

By Hayley Milliken research by Chelsea would it’s produced by Kristen Acevedo and Jonathan.


If with production, assistants by Ron Shapiro, we’re your host, Christine cheaper and EM Schulz.

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