Rituals - E34 • The Occult Swindler


Christine today’s episode is going to boil down to one little thing and that is persuasion, who.

Well as someone who is easily persuaded to do things, I will buckle up.

Lend me your ears Christine because you’re going to see, just how, how good one man, Giacomo Casanova was a persuading people to believe he was a full-time occultist and Got them to basically make him a social Elite Force.


Oh my gosh.


Okay this is already getting the vibe of like my favorite movie, which is Catch Me.

If You Can, you know, just convince everybody Giacomo and Leonardo DiCaprio happened to both sound a little similar in my books.

I don’t you tell them there’s a little Italian going on and the truth as you’ll find out.


Is that this charming a cult loving, man?

Actually spent his time running from one place to another.

Very Catch Me If You Can, because that’s what scammers do.

Do so they don’t get caught.

I just love a good scam story.

I cannot wait.


Hi everyone and welcome to rituals a Spotify original from podcast.

I’m em Schultz and I’m Christine Schieffer.

Every week, we’ll explore the evolution of spiritualism and the Occult through stories practices and the impact on Modern culture.

I am so glad and also so sad that you mentioned to nice.


Catch Predator, catch me if you can That’s the one.

You always mess.

That’s the one.

I love because catch, if you can’t is exactly what I wrote in my notes.

For this no way.

Because it just, it just felt like the overarching theme was a con artist.


Doing what he does best and make it work.

There’s something about a con artist story.

It’s you know True Crime but it’s also seeing Humanity get duped and I just I love a scam story.

I can’t wait.

I think because part of you knows you’d be the dupey when you wish you could be the new park.


I know I think.

That’s what it is.

All right, well, let’s crack into it. so, since we’re talking about persuasion today, I thought I’d ask how persuasive of a person do you truly think you are even though we just discussed you’d probably be the doopy, but I want to know your confidence rating for yourself, probably far too high, but I do feel like like I’m pretty persuasive and I think that comes, I mean, you and I’ve had long conversation about We’re not going to get into it, but I think that comes a lot from past experiences where I’ve had to really monitor people’s, you know, feelings expressions, like, you know, that hyper-awareness of what people are thinking feeling at every second childhood trauma.


Yeah, I look at the little sparkly childhood trauma GIF in there.

So, I think that is where I get my leg.

I think I’m persuasive in a lot of ways and I think I’m also often times easily persuade it.

So, you know, maybe they go hand-in-hand in some ways where, I know, What old trick me so I know a little trick.


Someone else.

What are you persuasive?

I don’t know.

I think before I had to really sit with myself and look within I would have said, oh yeah, I’m persuasive, but I really can’t think of a single thing I’ve ever persuaded anyone.

Okay, here’s the thing.

I think you can really persuade me to do things when I already sort of want to do them, but I’m like, I need someone else to like really push me into it.


So if I’m like, I don’t think it’s a good idea and you’re like, oh, come on, do it, do it, do it, do it, then I’ll do it.

See, I don’t think I’m a very good at being Persuasive than I just think.

I’m a really good height, man.

Just pushy.

Oh oh I’ll take it.

Talk about this affair.


Well I’ve tried to think of something.

Like I mean, is there something you’ve ever convinced somebody of the like they didn’t plan on doing until you from A to Z?

You were responsible.

I gotta say I don’t know.

That’s a great question.

I feel like I need to ponder that later.

I will say I feel like I’m very persuasive in conversation at getting people to To see, trust me or like think that what a fun game we’re playing.


How manipulative are you?

That’s what’s disturbing.

I’ve had conversations with people, where I’m like, I’m probably my therapist when I say people.

I mean, my therapist, where I’ve said, like, you know, I’m a little worried at how manipulative I could be and how, like, good I am at it and I think it does come from that place of like childhood trauma.


But, you know, it is a skill in the right hands.

There it is, we aren’t the right hands, but, you know, it’s a tricky mix because I feel like we came from similar.


So I feel like when you are raised by shout-out to our parents by manipulative people and now you have developed a guilt complex.


It’s almost like, you know, how to harness the power being manipulated yourself because you know, what will guilt people will give solutely.

Yeah, yeah, I don’t know if I’m persuasive but I certainly know how to cater to knowing what people want to hear.

So maybe that’s that’s part of it.

I wanted to be tricky.


I was trying to think desperately of a time that I have convince somebody of something.

And I think the only Time was a, you starting a podcast.

Yeah and you did and I think that was probably your best move yet so keep it up.

I tried once and I’m going to end on the high honestly.


Yeah yeah.

Quit while you’re ahead because we got a good thing going and I’m very thankful you, I almost had tricked me into it but you did persuade me into it.

But did you ever hear about the Tinder swindler?

Oh boy, that was a great documentary.

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

So I bring him up because similar to to our topic today he was a man Lured woman with a fake idea of who he was.


He claimed to be rich and important and he used them for money and Casanova was kind of similar except instead of looking for money, he just was using it to crawl into climb up the social ladder and crawl into some occult spaces.

Wow, I like how you initially said, crawl up the social ladder because I feel like that’s what I try to do.


I just am, like hanging off and I’m like, no, I’m not gonna get anywhere with.

So hang on did Casanova.

Is that why we have this name Casanova?

Mhm, yeah.



Isn’t that silly?

I always thought I was like, why?

Whatever I said, Casanova, I always have one particular opinion of it, but, you know, I’ve never thought of him as like someone in the occult world.


I had no idea, no idea.

So, here we go.

Are you ready to hear about Giacomo Casanova?

I’ve never never been more ready.

Laura, Meehan.


Well, the very first fun fact of it, all his name’s Jacques, homo didn’t know that and Casanova is, someone who seems myth.



Because you seems like a character from a book but he actually was a real person.

His reputation has lived on mostly because of his Memoir called story of my life which has been called legendary looking forward to the day.

Someone says that about our book on a road, atlas go check out.


Yeah, what’s that about?

Also the fact that you can write a book just called story of my life which is literally the definition of the word Memoir like you just wrote.

This is a story about me and it was somehow legendary that goes to show.

This guy was.

Yeah, somehow.

Yeah so good else.

One Casanova expert is quoted as saying about his book it’s probably the greatest autobiography ever written and its scope its size the quality of its pros.


It says fresh today as when it first appeared.


Is this thing on Audible?

Because I want to check it out.

Keep in mind the endorsement we got on the back of our book is literally from ourselves.

We wrote Our Own endorsement that’s embarrassing but it’s true.

So the book itself, the reason probably Wyatt just sold Hotcakes is because it covers his Tons of love affairs, arrests escapes, and all his travels and him meeting the elites of the world.


So, thanks that’s not what our book is about.

So it doesn’t it if it tracks, why we don’t have experts that study ours, you know, right.

And the latter came from his exploiting of the occult which is like the cherry on top to me and well that, but as life is kind of one big zigzag because he was usually on the Run.


One Allah catch me if you can accept Tom Hanks, wasn’t hot on the trail.

He was never saying a one place for very long and usually that was because he was forced to go.



So Giacomo Casanova was born in Venice.

In April 17. 25 to young parents who were both actors, which was a job that was pretty much looked down on back then.


So interesting and sadly, his dad passed away when he was just eight years old and his mother toward as an actress.

So, we’ll Casanova just hung out with Grandma.

And while he was with Grandma, he got his first taste of magic and experience virtue, or her snickerdoodles.


No, not quite.

It was the sweater made of love and every Stitch, here’s the thing.

This is a weird what a weird way to be introduced into magic, but he got a lot of nosebleeds as a kid.

So his grandma took him to see a witch which, um, okay, not the route.

My mom took when I had a lot of nosebleeds.


The which apparently did some sort of Magic on him and told him that he was going to meet a Charming lady and that has happiness depended on it and keep in mind, he’s eight years old.

So, you know, like second that’s yeah, sure is, it’s a lot to load up on a kid with a nosebleed.

You know.

You will never be happy until you meet a Charming lady.


Oh my God, so that night, I guess he found his Charming lady because he saw a woman dressed like a queen come out of his chimney.

Are you sure?

Nosebleed hadn’t gone on for a little too long and he’s just feeling woozy, because what are you talking about?


Are we sure it wasn’t December 25th and Santa wasn’t dragged?

Yeah, yeah.

Well, so casanova’s reaction was to think it was either staged or he was dreaming and he didn’t even really believe in Sorcerers or witches.

But he did recognize their influence in getting others to believe.


So sure, sure.

I think this was kind of I don’t know how real this story was or how real that woman was maybe should have called 911 if someone was breaking in.

I’ll letcha me but I think it was just perfectly time that he found the switch and and she said, you’re going to meet a woman and it was just kind of the first time he had it like Bennigan’s almost of something.


Yeah, that’s fascinating.

The power of persuasion.

Can you imagine?

She was just like, lost and fell into a chimney and then like, somehow change this guy’s whole entire life and created one of the most like powerful influential people.

I mean, I don’t know how she fell into the chimney, but, you know, whatever what a perfect day to fall into a chimney though, because 24 hours I think which said you would so Casanova grew up and went to college and he graduated with a law degree.


I want to say as a gun to you, he graduated with a law degree at 17.

Oh sure.


Which like either he was a genius or the education system was very different back then.


I think maybe a bit of both but probably mostly that the educate.

Like remember we always talk about how people went to Harvard to study medicine at 15 or whatever like that.


Say, you just how they did it, but Then can you imagine a seventeen-year-old sniping your lawyer?

Hmm, honestly I’d probably be persuaded and speaking of persuasion and be like, I don’t know.

He seems like he knows what he’s doing.

Honestly, I think I’d fall for it.

Anyway, the problem was, that was apparently not the problem.


The problem was that.

He also picked up a pretty nasty gambling addiction.

Follow him through the rest of his life.

Oh no.

So after that Casanova, went to study for a career.

In the church, he’s taking a sharp left turn.

Gotta get religious.



So he worked in Rome and this feels like a job that isn’t just like your everyday entry internship.

He goes to Rome.

And he gets a job from the Cardinal.

That was second in command to the pope.

Oh sure.

Sure, sure, sure, sure.


You know, it happens.

I’m telling you, this feels a little Catch Me If You Can.

Hmm, it’s just like how he was magically a lawyer.

He got a job, a high-ranking job very quickly, and While he’s in Rome, he’s networking a lot making all sorts of connections, which I’m not surprised if you’re like a degree away from the pope.


We like people probably want to know you great point and this is something that he’d become very good at.

It would get him through life quite a bit.

I imagine he was just like a real schmoozer like a real.

Yeah, there’s something to be said for kind of being in that position of like an assistant or an intern or you know where you’re getting your your kind of if you have your ear open like you are catching all Information and Intel you’re learning but you’re kind of in the background so people don’t really expect it from you.


But yeah, I can definitely see how that would have given him a jumpstart to all his Antics.

And honestly, I mean, I don’t know if he was actually like assistant of a pope or anything, but I gotta say there really is, some just a moment of recognition to assistance because they seem to be in the background but they always know.


So I mean, they’re in control of what everyone else is that’s in the front doing so you and And I and Eva have had hours long conversations where we’re just telling stories from when we worked as assistants, just the stuff we saw the secrets we’ve gathered, we are like weirdness that we’ve I don’t know.


There’s something about being in that role where people just kind of ignore you and your able to be a fly on the wall, which is wild because those people also have assistants and like should know how important and decision is no hard work.

But anyway, all that goes to say that, you know?


Yeah, he may be in the background but I promise you.

Every assistance, since the dawn of time knows a lot more than they probably would ever let on.

So, you’re right.

I think at these parties, he’s probably really schmoozing it up.

And he has Intel, and he’s getting more until to make his job, you know, it’s a very powerful role.


He’s in total is also overlooked, which is in its own way a privilege.

So he’s recognized that the art of persuasion is making a lot of connections early on in life.

So not only does he have this role, but he’s also a real smooth talker.



But while studying for his career in the church, everything begins to fall because he lost his virginity, remember a career in the church he lost weight?

Yeah to two sisters.


Ooh, La La, the drama, the drama, the drama, just the fact that it’s even like, he lost it.


Like, it’s not like, oh, he’s slept with.

It’s like he was, fortunately, the Two Sisters.

What in the world?

Yeah, he slept with two people losing his, his Purity look yassuh, two sisters.

So he was kicked out of the church and he started traveling around trying to find his next calling, and his next calling for him, happen to be the military and playing the violin.


Why not, you know, God keep it interesting, throw it in there and an interesting tidbit that makes him seem not completely heartless.

Was that Casanova?

Often acted as a Healer or a caretaker when people needed him for help.

Oh, that’s nice.

So for instance, when he was a kid He helped a friend get through smallpox after he had gotten through it, and when he was 21, he saved the life of a wealthy Venetian Senator well.


So he’s just, he’s just helps wherever he can.

So when he saved this Venetian Senator to pay Casanova back for saving him, the senator gave him tons of money and bought an expensive clothes and got him into High Society events and basically allowed him to live a lavish life, that sounds like a rom-com in the making you know, like it does place right time and you say Someone’s life from choking like you know, do the heimlich and suddenly you’re like living the dream or your Maid in Manhattan and suddenly you’re in the right place at the right time.


I’m just saying, I feel like we could make a script off this.

I will say if I ever had to perform the heimlich on someone, I certainly hope that they are feeling generous and have the means to do that if that’s going to get me invited to parties, you know.

Yeah I’ll do it.

I’d at least like to be invited to a party for sure, for sure.


So unfortunately this lavish life that the senator has At him does not last very long because Casanova tries to pull a little stunt.

Oh, what do you gotta lay low when you’re in the heat?

I guess he’s still learning.


Yeah you gotta be grateful.

God be grateful, take a step back, but trying to be this funny charismatic guy, he pulls a prank by digging up a newly buried corpse what?


And I don’t really know the rest of that crank.

All I know is it involved?

A newly buried corpse, but he shocks the man that he was trying to prank, and he shocks him into Alice.


What a fun prank, I thought a good luck.

Oh boy!


Oh boy, oh boy.

Oh, not a good luck.

So, Casanova was forced to leave Italy, which like, new whole country, which makes me think the person who was that, shocked must have been pretty powerful.

Well, it’s not now you’re just shamed by the whole country.

Yeah, that’s bad.

Move, bad move.

So once again, he is now a nomad.


And now this is where his experiences in the occult start to come into play.

But remember, how being The Healer brought him rewards so he found the same result came from joining.

Some secret societies.



Up next Casanova, finds himself in the ranks of some well-known, occult groups, but it could all have been to benefit his social status.


It’s hard to blame him, though.

You know, I agree.

You tell yourself, it’s only a movie none of this could ever happen to you.

You feel relieved until you discover what you’re watching is based on actual events.


Hi listeners.

It’s Vanessa.

And Greg from the Spotify original from par cast, serial killers in our Halloween special Real Horror were spotlighting.

Three of the most iconic horror films of all time and telling the terrifying true stories that inspired them recovering the real Winces behind characters like Ghostface from the 90s mega-hit scream, Hannibal Lecter, and Buffalo Bill from the oscar-winning Thriller the Silence of the Lambs and Leatherface from the 70s.


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Giacomo Casanova was in his mid-20s when he recently got interested in theological Concepts and secret societies.

And we already know he didn’t really believe in magic at this point after his experience with the witch with during his nose bleeds.

What more do you need?

You see a woman climbing out of the chimney, and that’s not enough.


I feel like it at least stuck with him.

And so he was Yeah, I kind of remember that that sorcery, he respected that it had an ability to draw people in though.


That’s fair.

I think he took that and ran with it.

Mmm, so after getting run out of the church after losing his virginity to Scissors, by the way, Casanova took his gambling habit for.


He has a gambling habit and he traveled the world sleeping with many women along the way.

So this is where we start to see that were the Casanova name.

Sure the classic.

Yeah Trope.

I think in today’s Today’s world we still hear the maybe not anymore but I definitely heard a growing up.


Like if someone’s a Casanova they’re like a little bit of like a like a fuck boy.

You know?

Like yeah.

They’re kind of a little slime, like not to be trusted necessarily but like yeah, player may be a player.

It was like a Romeo but no, but I think Rome unicast over about the same as I think of their Brosius like that - okay, well, I would like, I would say that the name itself of like that Trope is like, it means like you get a lot of girls but maybe not in the right.


Most genuine ways.

Yeah, you’re sort of a player, I don’t know.

Yeah, a player player.

So anyway, this is where he starts sleeping with a lot of women.

Hmm, around 1750, he finds himself in the city of Lyon, France, where he is initiated into the Freemasons, and he also became involved and Rosicrucianism, which we’ve got home.


Oh, yeah.

And he used his connections from both groups, to make friends in high places.

So, he’s moving and grooving again.

He’s back to the schmoozing also much mousse and like the number of times where we’ve seen people These groups are just having these like highfalutin parties and like, making these connections, I mean, this must be where the higher-ups hang out at these bananas occultist groups.


No wonder.

They only let men in half the time.

Hey, makes sense to me.

And so, don’t forget.

He also had a caretaker and healer side, and while it seemed genuine Casanova did see that as an opportunity.

So, I got to say, though, that is very powerful stuff, because, like, if you’re just this sort of kind of sleazy, dude, sleeping With a lot of people that’s one thing, but then you have that soft side.


That’s what real people in like your Charming, but you also are genuinely a pretty like caring person.

I mean talk about persuasive.

He is a recipe for a bad boy, you know?

He’s a recipe for like a like a.

I don’t know who your parents warned you about.



Like go get fooled.

He’s gonna sleep is where the top, but he’s gonna use his kind heart in the beginning, to trick you to really, really win.

So he reportedly would prefer His Supernatural access to Medical wisdom.

So in Paris, he is just an example by the way, but in Paris, he apparently helped The Duchess clear up her acne, which like, I feel like in 1750 he was just like girl.


Here’s some soap.

Like trust me apparently with diet and hygiene.

He was able to clean up her acne and so that made him also look to a higher higher role.

Glyco I’m helpful.

And I mean, I’m gonna say like Clearasil would have paid big bucks for this.


You don’t even like people are still to this day trying to find the best way to clear up acne.

So, like, if he really did that, like, that’s, that would be impressive nowadays, let alone.

That’s true.

That’s true.

And apparently, he did through diet and hygiene and she was glowing, she was glowing.

So, during this time, Casanova was still hopping from town to town, usually, to be driven away because of his reputation of seducing, so many women and being a bullshitter Okay.


Okay, I mean I can’t imagine he just helped The Duchess and then didn’t try to sleep with her, you know what I mean?


Certain especially once her skin was glowing and he was like well he’s like well, I’m not here.

I’m already here and you look a lot better than you did.

Five seconds ago.


Look, beautiful today.

And several years after Freemasonry was banned and Venice in 1751, it seems like Casanova was back in town, because one night in 1755, Five, just after his 30th birthday, by the way.


Casanova’s, Freemason membership was used against him when he was arrested in Venice and tossed in jail, for an affront to religion and common decency.

The common decency is what gets me like not just religion.

I wonder if the Freemasons like actively try to expunge that from the record of like we were in a front to religion and common decency.


So anyway, he was there in 1755 and he spent 15 Months in jail until he escaped.

Oh boy his Escape earned him some publicity obviously Casanova the famed schmoozer is escaping jail.

Hmm But it also got him exiled from Venice for 18 years and boy so he went back to Paris in January 1757 and jail.


Must have meant nothing because Casanova picked right back up with his BS.

This time he’s claiming to be a rosicrucian and an alchemist East.



I mean, we all saw that coming The Alchemist part.

I think he was like, oh, for the Freemason thing didn’t work.

I still got my little tendrils in the occult world.


So mmm, and it was around this time that the Philosopher’s Stone which we’ve did an episode on.

Aha, the Philosopher’s Stone was a big story so he wanted to profit from the popularity.

Of course, just ride that wave you know, riding the wave just like everyone else was all the rosicrucians at the time.

It’s true being a social climber, not a crawler.


Not, he could crawl.

He probably I think at this point it’s turned into like a social Sprinter.

Like I think he’s just trying to get up that ladder as fast as he can.

Make sense, Casanova needed, something to keep him in the good, graces of the social Elite and that thing was his knowledge in the occult.


Okay, I love that though.

That’s a powerful person to be too if you’re like mystifying to the people of top, they want to keep you in their Circle.

If you’re already persuasive and you’re already a smooth talker and now you’ve got this like Whimsical mysterious thing that other people want to know about it.


You’re the only one to look to.

I mean, you’ve really set yourself up and salute Lee back to our conversation about assistance and how they’re very powerful behind the scenes.

I mean he was already talking to people in these circles.

He knew what was going to get them?

Yes that’s a great point.

He probably had all the behind-the-scenes Intel to do with what he wished.



He had kept it in his back pocket for all those years.

He was like I know how I’m going to get my way back to the top.

One way he’d made friends with Nobles and Senators would be to claim.

He could talk to supernatural beings by using a mystical.

And using figures and letters from the person’s question.


So, whoa, It’s feeling like he probably use some version of like a numerology situation.

I like, maybe I’m thinking, like, oh the freakin Pythagorean theorem but I guess that makes more sense.

We don’t totally know.

I think it was just his own version of numerology and he was just completely scamming people, okay?


God is usually, the calculation was partly just Casanova.

Turning the person’s words into numbers using the number of letters in each word.

It was fake math.

That was fake math.

Okay, okay.

Glad glad we’re settled on fake mouth because I was trying to make some sort of sense of it, but most would and maybe that was the Brilliance of it were like nobody knew what quite like him.


So you had to believe it to him.

You couldn’t crack it because there was, no, it wasn’t real.

That’s, I mean, kind of genius.

And this mystical calculation would then produce a response that was totally made up by Casanova, by the way, but people bought it, people were into it.

So I mean, way to keep himself exclusively Of and the whole totally, totally, no competition.


I have to stay here because you’ve got no one else with the answers smart.

So in Paris, 17:58 Casanova, made friends with Madame du room, all, who after convincing her, that he’d be able to help her with Prophecies of mystical Insight.



Is it becoming buddies?

She then introduced Casanova to her husband, and her High Society friends.

So now he’s locked in rubbin, elbows and believing What he said she would talk to Casanova as if he could see into the future.

And he even though he was making stuff up, she was a fallen for it.


I mean, it’s like that classic Trope of the psychic.

That just tells you, what you want to hear, you know?

Yeah, exactly.

And she was buying it, and that was just getting him more and more access to her friends that were in the higher circles, right again?

Remember his healing side because there was a point where Madam rumah lost her singing voice, and Casanova, The helper, he is decided to help heal her.



Okay, tell me how he’d do.

We know how he did it?

He has this magical miracle and it basically, He adjusted her sleep and bathing routines and prescribed a fake magical ceremony, using the Sun that she, and she would do this on the daily until her voice felt better.


Keep in mind, I have a feeling that this magical miracle was probably just a week of vocal rest but like yeah.

And he said, oh, you have to do it every day.

Pay for this many days and by the daytime, the days were over.


It’s like one of those old-timey prescriptions were it’s like drink alcohol for 14 days and then you won’t have a cold anymore.


And it’s like girl, if you just pick 14 days, one of a cold anymore, alcohol had nothing to do with.

It’s like, wow, all these migraines and slyke will take my magic pill and it’s really just coding and cocaine.

And you’ll feel so much better because you’ll probably sleep for three days straight.

Yeah, so yeah.


So apparently he healed her voice by adjusting her bathing.

Scholes or whatever.

But maybe maybe it was a steam.

Maybe it was the same.

Actually, you know what, maybe he was onto something.

And then in the sun, you know?

I mean, I don’t know what the sun does but the steam, maybe?

I don’t know, I don’t know.

I don’t know.

I think maybe half of it was not bullshit but the other half was absolutely bullshit.


Why am I trying to give him the credit?

Like, it’s very obvious that you’re being persuaded 100, 300 years later.

Gosh darn it in his autobiography.

He admits to telling many of France’s nobility usually women that he was a rosicrucian and there were several women in high positions who believed in the occult the Philosopher’s Stone and Alchemy so they loved that.


He was a part of that.

That’s got to also get him, get him the girls to you have to imagine you know he’s mysterious he’s different than the other guys.

He’s the bad boy.

He’s the one.

He’s got all the answers so we’ll spooky.

You know, he knows more about you than you think, you know, that’s true.



You could ask him any question about your future and you know he used that in the most player way of like why you’re gonna sleep with someone tonight.

I told it was magical is going.

I’m out of the chimney and then he climbs up the chimney.

No surprise Casanova.

Also pretended that he could talk to spirits and that he knew all the secrets of alchemy and the Occult, right?


So at this point, I feel like he’s unraveling.

It’s like if you like maybe even he believes it a little too much that he can just say anything.

And anyway whatever.


And because of this rich and Powerful, women gave him tons of money, they gave him an apartment, they paid his debts and more, I imagined something in a bedroom at one point.


And more.

Let’s just look at.

Let’s just leave and more and more dot dot dot just because he could make up so many fake but believable occult practices and magic spells to help fix their problems.


And the fraud can only take you so far.


So when everyone finally began to wake up to Casanova scams, he was run out of France and life started a downward spiral from there.

So I’m just picturing this whole scenario and I’m picturing like in the screenplay.

There is definitely a man who from day.


One just does not trust this guy and everyone’s like no, he’s totally great.

As name is Tom Hanks and his name is Tom Hanks and he’s like no there’s something up with this fella and like maybe Casanova slept with this guy’s wife.

I don’t know what the Vendetta is, but this guy’s like I’m out to prove that he’s full of bologna and I don’t know, this is how I’m picturing this scene and then suddenly people start turning on him, he’s like I told you guys this guy was not for real scam artists.


I’m writing this.

Can cut this out.

I’m just writing my scripts.

Oh well, cut it out, obviously.

So we can write the scripts and yeah, copyright reasons only.

So now at 38 years old and 1763 oh how the mighty have fallen and Casanova is now in London and he’s hoping to copy his success with the state lottery there as well.


But things don’t go too.

Well, the next year, in 1764 he was forced to leave.

England to avoid a potential death.

For forgery.

Oh no.

Which the fact that you could be executed for forgery, is wild to me, but also he has now been kicked out of Italy.


France and England.

That’s a lot, that’s a lot.

So his next stop your hometown, he goes to Germany.

Hey, hey, we’re his usual occult scams and seductions didn’t work.

Like they used to are you proud of the Germans?


And this moment, I’m not usually proud of the germ and I’m just going to say blanket.

No on.

Are you proud of The Germans in really any scenario like the answer is almost always.


So today I think you’re the German tough looks that they probably gave him of like we are not falling for this.



Try a slightly comical to think of like some of the people I’ve met.

Who would not even take a second to figure this guy out to be like, okay, guy we’ve seen it all, you know, forget it well so did, I don’t know if he got kicked out of Germany, but later on, he ends up getting kicked out of different cities in Poland.


And in Spain and Italy again so he’s just like trying to sneak back into Italy every five minutes it’s like give it up my guy like it’s over.

It’s over.

Needless to say the 1760s were pretty rough on Casanova and it got worse for the man who was always able to charm his way through life.


Oh, no.

Are his charms fading?

That’s kind of a sad.

I mean, you know, I know he’s kind of the bad guy but it’s a little sad.

I do Wonder like what it was that like, was he just aging out of the things that people People needed to hear to fall for him or was he just like like was it the the culture of different places and they just didn’t quite fall for the same thing.


Was he like losing his kind of charm?

Like you said, kind of Aging out of it?

Was it like yeah, he wasn’t keeping up with the times or the cultures.

Yeah, really interesting.

We gotta write this movie.

Okay, got it.

Well, write that after our Houdini Broadway, where it’s okay.


Going against all the mediums.


Okay, great.

So women This is when women begin to turn him down for the first time in his life which if anyone ever wants to call someone a Casanova, just know that Casanova also got turned down.

So that’s like you could use that either to your advantage or disadvantage could be a fun little tete-a-tete.


That’s not the right word.

A tit-for-tat situation.

Whatever you’re like a little.

Is it a tete-a-tete?

I don’t know.

But the the where you have like a back-and-forth where you could say, oh yeah.

You are just like Casanova in 1765 and it’s like, wow.


You got him?



Are you know, it’d be a good.

Would you say Tata is like, you could say like, oh everyone loves you.

You must be like a Casanova and it’s like, um, it’s like six different countries.

Don’t like you.

Yeah, yeah.

Actually, I’ve burned a lot of bridges.

I feel like it’s one of those things where all of the, a lot of famous sayings out there.


They actually have a second half to them, people ignore and it actually completely changes the most of the cat like out of context.

I feel like that’s like Casanova, like I’ve always thought of him as like this, like Charming.

Well to do smooth guy but like if you look at the second half of his life like nobody likes them like he’s getting kicked out left and right from different countries.


It’s like a big Fall From Grace.

Oh yeah.

Oh, and also he was in the occult we don’t ever talk about that right also.

There’s that that nobody seems to want to bring up.

So women begin to turn him down and Casanova wrote about it.

This is a quote from him, the power to please at First Sight, which I had so long possessed in such measure was beginning to fail me.


That’s almost sad.

No, Emma was about to say.

I know this is just me getting suckered in, but like, I feel sad for him.

Yeah, things are not looking the way they used to for him.

I don’t feel sad like, oh, poor him.

I wish you know, well, but something about that.

I’m just, like, that’s got to be hard.


The Glory Days Are Over.


And I think we can all relate to that, in a way.

Like, yeah, we don’t, we don’t have that spark.

We used to all Casanova at heart.

So throughout the mid late 1700s, he bounces around Europe, wherever he’s welcome, I guess.



And basically, by the time he turned 60, he was penniless and took a job as a librarian about 60 miles, north of Prague.

Can you imagine like that?

Like what a fall from grace of like, oh, where’s that guy that we used to hang out with them party all the time?

Oh, he’s like he has no money and he just like lives on the outskirts of a random City.


Look him up on LinkedIn.

Oh, he hasn’t updated it in 40 years.

Like what do you think he’s up to?

Let’s find his Instagram and his Facebook.

Oh, wow.

He’s a librarian now, with gentlemen, see that coming That’s sad.

So in 1789 Casanova was obviously depressed.


So his doctor told him he should write his Memoir, which is this legendary experience and everyone’s having and in a letter to a friend, Casanova says what pleasure and remembering ones, Pleasures.

It amuses me because I’m inventing nothing.


I adore this because he has invented so much in his life and now he says, all of this is true because it Tall hat, all my bullshit, I’m putting on the page for you to read, you know what I mean?

For all the inventing of a character or personality or all the story and venting he did the beginning.


The ultimate invention was just his his Memoir of Lego life, all of that was just so that one day I could talk about how I made it up and like you.

And I’ve had talked about this.

And speaking of persuasion, I would say 95% of the time, maybe even more that somebody persuades me to do something.


It’s because in the back of my mind, I know This will be a fun story someday.

Yeah, yeah.

I feel like there’s an element of that and that might be why I kind of have an affection for him.

Where I think like, you know, he was doing all this nonsense, you know, lying and like manipulating and tricking people.


But in the end it was like, now I’m going to write a whole story about how great it was and we’re all going to enjoy it and kind of laughs along.

I agree with you but he does get strategic about it and he seems to only share the parts that he thinks would be fun because I feel like his Memoir.

So he writes Story of my life and it ends when Casanova was 49.


So basically all the fun.

The fun starts.

Yeah, he really was like, this will be a great story and then all the parts that I never said that about won’t be included in my story.

Yeah, which I guess not really the most full-fledged Memoir, but I can get I can understand if you’re depressed.

While you don’t want to linger on all that.


You don’t want to dwell on the downward spiral.


So in 1797 Casanova, got sick with the kidney infection and he died the next year.

Oh no.

Yeah, that’s sad Casanova would probably love the fact that his name has since been used as an adjective for Modern Men, who behave the way he did.


Fascinating coming up, we’ll talk more about his legacy and our final thoughts on this legendary.

A cult swindler.

Oh, I can’t wait.


I think we can agree, Giacomo Casanova was a fascinating person, not for all the right reasons.

But even through the lens of his time, he was problematic.

But however, he sort of got what he wanted because most of us today know him as this charming guy with charming ways with women at, maybe not so much.


As the guy who used the occult to charm his way up the social ladder.

Yeah, he definitely if he wanted to be known for something and he definitely had a bit of an ego or at least wanted people to think.

Of him a certain way.

And I mean, hey, since the 1700s people have literally called anyone good with women a Casanova like, yeah, that name, I mean, we knew that name without even knowing this guy’s back story.


That’s a pretty powerful Legacy.

He’s yeah, left for himself.

I feel like that Park I left out of his Memoir.

I think it like I don’t even hear about his Memoir.

Like all the hard writing, he probably did for that all I try and pull himself out of a depression.

I mean, yeah.



I gotta say I mean, maybe this just proves what we Gust at the top of this show, that I am clearly a sucker, but like, I’m, I’m like, feeling for him.

I’m feeling like guy, I get, I get it, you know, you kind of did some not-so-great things, but what’s interesting to me is like, I feel like, I mean, he climbed a social ladder by talking about the occult all the time and pretending to be an expert with the occult and maybe for all, we know, he was an expert on the occult but it’s interesting that that was such a big part of the story and you just I heard about it.


I always heard.

Oh, you’re a Casanova.

I knew.

Nothing freakin nothing.

Like maybe maybe because there was maybe a time period where like the occult wasn’t very big but I would argue that since he died both waves the spiritualism happened and no one ever talked about Casanova.


I wonder if it had just gotten swept aside like not even intentionally but like maybe that just didn’t like you just think oh, Casanova had such a way with women and like, it never dawned on people to even include Glued that part of him which means he must have been so F and good with women to any or that big-ass plot line.


That that part isn’t even relevant.


Well, so in modern times, his name has been used to describe men who behave just like him with women but Casanova once claimed that he was, I just want to let you know Casanova once claimed that he had encounters with over 120 women in his life.



And two of them were sisters, at least two, just to give you some insight on how Cody was a woman like we’re talking about because to have been with over 120 women.

How did he keep track?

Oh they keep they keep track in his book.


He wrote that quote cultivating would ever gave pleasure to my senses was always the chief business of my life.

You know, I’m sorry.

I can’t I’m having a hard time faulting him for that because yes the lying and the manipulating was bad but it’s not like he was out there, you know killing people like ruining lat.


Maybe he was ruining lives with like sleeping with people who are married.

I don’t delusionally maybe, I, maybe he was just a, he’s just a player, just an F boy, you know, it’s just seeking his own pleasure and like, I don’t know, maybe I need more details on like, how he treated the women like maybe I need more dr.


Gray life.

You know, like, I don’t know, maybe he treated them like garbage afterward and that would change my opinion, but the way it’s presented now is just like, oh, he slept with a lot of women, like, in my mind, that’s not a bad thing.

You know what I mean?

At least nowadays, like, It’s you can sleep with a lot of people whether you’re a lady and gent and baby, you know, and it’s like, you know, we’re trying to make it less of a stigma to sleep with more people.


So I’m like, maybe he just was having a good time.

But again, that takes out of context how he treated them afterward, maybe during maybe.

I don’t know the details, but I can’t agree with you.

I think in an ever-growing sex-positive world.


He seems like, less, and less of a villain or A ne’er-do-well variant.

I think he was just fuck boy.

And I think he was just really good at it and the sliminess of like a lot of slimy.

Yeah, he’s slimy, dude, you know, and we both have talked about how there’s that kind of extra icky, part of people using spiritualism to fool vulnerable, people who want to connect with their loved ones.


And yeah, you know, I don’t have any freaking patience for that.

So I guess in that way, like I don’t relate to him on that front.

But you know, I do kind of And the notion of wanting to just follow your own pleasure and as long as you’re not causing too much harm along the way, I guess you do you but I think in the script that we’re writing about Tom Hanks like being on to him this whole time.


In my mind they both keep bumping into each other at parties and Tom Hanks is character actually is like a real expert in spirituality and the Occult and just keeps hearing him like, say all the wrong stuff and misinforming women just to sleep with them at parties.


And Tom Hanks is like I’m on to you.

I know that everything you’re saying is wrong and eventually there’s like a double blind.

You know, I was kind of half joking earlier but I really think this could be a fun screenplay.

Like Tom Hanks has actual Freemason show up and he’s like, I want you host a seance for us since you know what you’re talking about and do it in front of all the women.


You’re sleeping with.

I honestly think we could pull something like this off.


I got it.

I’ll call Tom, you know, all the many times time slots, we have on our hands, all the all the free time.

We have, well, I’ll end it on this.

We started this episode by talking about his Memoir and in 2010 the manuscript for that book.


Sold for nine point six million dollars.


So he really did even in the end just in 2010.

That wasn’t even like that long ago, like he just like, is still raking it in, after his death.

I wonder where that money went.

I don’t know, to fund our movie.


I sure hope.

So, in today’s society, do you think I know we’ve talked about this a little bit, but do you think Calling someone Casanova holds the same meeting.

Or is it a bit more - I think we both kind of are on the same page here where it just feels like it feels slimy but maybe you’re just really good at it.



And I to me I feel like the vibe was always what you mentioned earlier of.

Like the person your parents warned you about, like don’t get too emotionally invested in someone like that because they probably aren’t here for a long-term committed relationship.

You know what I mean?

Like if that’s what you’re looking for, fine.


Like like a casual thing.

But if you’re looking for, you know, a deeper, emotional romantic connection, don’t let him break your heart because he’s a heartbreaker.

You know, final question.

Do you think for the guy who claims to be an expert or have all the knowledge about the occult?


Do you think he was actually a legitimate member of any of these secret occult groups?

Oh is that he was a Freemason, he said it was a result so we don’t know he’s an alchemist.

I wonder, I feel like if you’re hanging around in those circles though, you’re bound to run into people in those actual groups and they Would know whether or not you’re well, I mean, I feel like you said he was inducted into the Freemasons, so at least there was that, right?


Like, at least I don’t know about the rosicrucian thing.

Maybe he was just like an amateur was like an armchair expert or something.

Yeah maybe he just had enough Intel where he could convince people he was in it even though.

Yeah, maybe I mean if you hang out with enough Freemasons, I’m sure they’re talking about alchemy and all that stuff anyway.


So maybe you can just kind of just like pick and choose what you bring up.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah yeah and also remember he got like arrested for being a Freemason so maybe he felt jilted and didn’t talk to that group any more so than when he climbed a new Social Circle, he didn’t bump into any of them.

I don’t know.


Yeah, it’s hard to say hard to say.

But anyway, that is a Casanova for you.

This is one of my favorites.

I can’t believe I didn’t know the story behind the term, Casanova me either.

And I’m mad that after all this time, there was a whole occult backing to nest and just no one said anything.


I’m like, that’s That’s the more interesting part to this.


He was making up his own freaking spells and we could revamp the word, I guess.

Where, instead of it being like, Oh, you’re a ladies man.

It could just mean like Casanova should have been a term that Houdini called mediums like, oh, you’re tricking people into spiritual practices or thinking about like, a snake oil salesmen where you’re like, you know, you’re trying to help people, but you know, you’re pulling one over on them, but only for spooky things, but yeah, from now on when I call someone a costume, that’s what I mean and they’re gonna be like thank you and you’re going to be like hmm if only you know, listen to this episode and you’ll understand Thanks so much for listening.


We’ll be back next week with another great episode information.

On today’s episode came from history today, the New Yorker Giovanni Giacomo Casanova libertine, Gambler.

Spy Statesman, Freemason by Ira, Gilbert Smithsonian Magazine by dot-org Casanova.


The rosicrucian by Matthew D Rogers, Casanova.

Celebrity a case study of well-known.

Nacinda In century Europe by Nicola Jody the universe key and the BBC remember to follow rituals on Spotify to get a brand new episode every week and you can listen to this and all other episodes of rituals for free exclusively on Spotify.


And if you like the show, follow at Park asked on Facebook and Instagram and at Park as Network on Twitter, you can find me at the M Schultz and you can find me a text and she /.

Thanks again for listening and we’ll see you next week.

Rituals is executive produced by Max Cutler and is a Spotify original from podcast.


It was created by Max Cutler sound design by Kristin Acevedo with associate sound design by Jamie Ryan research, by Chelsea would fact-checking by Catherine Barner.

It’s produced by Kristen Acevedo and Jonathan Ratliff with production assistants by Ron Shapiro.


We’re your house, Christine cheaper, and M Schultz.

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