Rituals - E35 • The Vardø Witch Trials

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All right, I am today.

We’re talking misogyny.

Racism, intolerance.

Oh my, your typical Tuesday.

Got it.


Difficulties day on this show, talking about every other Ordinary Day in the US of a.

Okay, let’s go the day-to-day Antics.

We always go through.


So today we have yet, another case, surprise, surprise of women being persecuted whoo-hoo and just what do you think?

Think it couldn’t get any worse.

Hmm, it does.

Okay it does we are talking about the varda witch trials that infected an entire Seaside community in Norway for almost an entire Century.


I just got goosebumps saying that and I’ve read it three times.

Whoo, it’s a long time to have this BS going on.

Yes, Hi everyone and welcome to rituals a Spotify original from par cast.


I’m Christine Schieffer, and I’m M Schultz every week, we’ll explore the evolution of spiritualism and the Occult through stories practices and the impact on Modern culture.

Today, we’re talking about the varta witch trials.

These are some trials.

I had actually not heard of and I’m Shocked because they are extremely dark and horrific, I hate that.


There’s a variety of Trials.

I always just assumed and maybe maybe hoped that the Salem Witch Trials were just the only Witch Trials hmm but one day we’ll have gone through them all.

I think I sure hope so feels like it’s never ending at this point.


Well you want to crack into it?

I want to crack it to it.


We’ve talked about which Charles quite a bit, and for whatever reason, we have not heard about this, The varta Witch Trials on and that’s why I drink or on this show yet.

So, is this something you really just have never heard of it, right?

I haven’t heard of the Bardo Witch Trials.


No me neither thankfully through rituals.

I am getting a very quick education on all the Which history there is out there with you.

And I at a party next year, we’re going to be like step aside.

We know a little bit about a lot of Random.

I’m really have you ever heard of weather?


Which has they’re responsible for corn or not?

I love corn.

We think it was hard to remember.

It was a long time ago.

They’re responsible for everything all the way down to Corn, just everything, okay.

And what you were saying earlier?

Sorry, I just had a very a wise thought if I do say so myself.


It’s about time.

But when you said earlier, you were talking about like, oh, it feels like a day to day Life In America, which is kind of effed up.

Considering we’re talking about these quote-unquote old-timey.

They Feel outdated.

They feel old, these Witch Trials, and yet it all feels a little too close to home.


Do you know what I’m saying?

I yeah I know what you’re saying.

It feels it’s a shame that history just can’t stop repeating itself, it’s so timely, it’s horrible.

Obviously we’re not going through the same type of torture.

That these people went through, but oh sure the fact that one groups got to be persecuted for every arbitrary reason, some another group can imagine just just because, just because need a scapegoat, the narcissism And the it’s just a toxic, it’s all toxic.


It’s also toxic.

And I’d like to have thought in a more naive version of myself that you know we’ve moved past this.

We can look back and just be glad we’re not there anymore, but I feel like it’s a little hard to do that nowadays for a variety of reasons.

So as we talked about this, something to keep in mind, I feel like that.


Hey let’s just try to avoid doing this kind of shit again.

You know what I’m saying?

Maybe one day we’ll have a period of time where this isn’t happening somewhere.

Are in the world where people are just be lovely, having their, their freedoms, in their rights, taken away.

Women are respected, or not, blame for everything.


But a man doesn’t understand, you know, I have my doubts, but like, we can dream, you know what I’m saying, maybe in the year like, 3,000, we got to go ask the Jonas Brothers.

How that’s how it’s going over there.

I’m sure that like 2001 A Space Odyssey, they had such high hopes and then we hit 2011 and we were like wait really.


No, so tragic, we laugh?

Because if not we cry, well the varta witch trials, were an offshoot of the European Witchcraft Trials, which I know you’ve talked about a little bit and were considered among the most intense ones out there.

Of course, they were okay, they happen between 1593 and 1692 in finnmark the northernmost County in Norway.


So, I mean, sounds a little bit like a Finland, Denmark combo, a marriage.

In the midst of Norway often Mark, which is the northernmost County in Norway above, the Arctic Circle.

So, They got that sad that seasonal affective disorder.

I don’t know if that plays into any of this but, you know, I get pretty bummed out during the dark times of the year.


It’s certainly in full swing at least today, maybe I’ll stop them.

Yeah, the trials were centered around a fishing Village called varda.

And finnmark itself was extremely isolated which is partly why the witch trials there were so severe, which is kind of a dark thought like you’re isolated your Rural and you know like every horror movie, you’re out there with no like outside influence.


And that is how these trials.

Also, intense I was going to say they also they could probably get away with more because there weren’t people seeing what will first time?



And that’s exactly what it was that the local courts were pretty far from the central authorities and Copenhagen, and the local courts had the power to issue death sentences and so they were given us power.


No oversight.

Like you said and they were like, great.

We got it.

We can do this and we can do it.

Very efficiently yikes.

Okay cool.

So The accusation rate was disproportionately high relative to the population.

I don’t think that’s surprising to us at this point.


When all was said, and done, 91 people were killed and 80 of them were women.

There were men involved as well, which I’ll explain later, but compared which you just mentioned, how sometimes we consider the Salem, Witch Trials, the worst ones of all, if you compare this to the infamous Salem, Witch Trials, a few decades later. 25 people were executed and here 911.



So that just gives you an idea like more than triple the number of Them’s, okay.


No, that’s definitely puts it into a different perspective because I mean, go figure with American education, but I just always her.

Do the Salem, Witch Trials, nothing could be worse, and just like one quick, Google lets, you know that, oh, there’s actually a lot that was equally or much worse.



And it’s alarming to think, like this was, you know, at least we were taught growing up, like, oh, this was an American incident.

But it’s so because, you know, we’ve covered the Ghana which trout, we’ve got her Ghana, which camps we’ve covered all these Topics in different Aunt countries and so it’s not.

It is much more Universal than yeah, exactly.


Exactly in another world.

Imagine if you to not be a, which is, when you’re being persecuted, oh, oh, you’re just like, oh, I’m the outcast here.

I’m not.

Yeah, like you’re not magical and The In Crowd.

Yeah, I do have my very own familiar.

It’s pretty sad.

I would have like a pet rock and I’d be like, this is my familiar and it would be like, that’s not anything we have cats and lizards and you have a rock that doesn’t count, thanks causing An animal overpopulation over here and you and your rock can go home with you and your rock aren’t part of the In Crowd.


Yeah, Dad.

So let’s talk about what led to the varda witch trials.

As we know whenever there’s a problem people like to blame someone else people like to have a scapegoat and that is what they looked for when there were no Solutions.

No explanations for things like, drought storms.


Other disasters that like affected people’s lives in a really tragic way.

Especially when we were talking about corn with the weather which has right.

If something went wrong with the crops this wasn’t just like an oopsie.

It was like a oh my family can’t eat this year, you know?


And so when there was no science to explain things like drought storms or other disasters that led to poverty and death, what did they do?


Well, they turn to one of the underprivileged groups of that time which were women, of course, of course, in the 1400s religious groups, introduced a new doctrine that expanded existing beliefs on witchcraft.

In this new idea was called demonology We actually discussed in the King James, the first episode.


So in a nutshell demonology involved, making a pact with the devil, which would give you the power to shape, shift, and perform evil deeds, and rejecting God and renouncing your baptism.

So, this is what it entailed.

If you were kind of in on the demonology thing, I feel like I desperately wish I was making a pact with the devil then like of all times of my life, if that’s a demonology, a sign me up, honestly.


And I think about it to where It’s like, oh well they they accuse everyone of making pacts with the devil and you know, doing stupid things like causing a rainstorm and I’m like if I were making pacts with the devil, don’t you think that making pacts with the devil?

All these women would have had much more to do and much more of a powerful?


It’s like oh you caused a rainstorm while these women and the devil.

Like, don’t you think they could have taken over the world?

Honestly, if people were able to make a pact with the devil and then all of a sudden could just do whatever they wanted, don’t you think they I would turn on the people killing and torturing them.


That’s what I’m right.

It’s like, oh wow, you’re so powerful.

You drowned a bunch of women.

But like, Christine really in League with the devil, Christine were overlooking.

The fact that women are stupid, that forget, men, your have female brains, they don’t know what they’re talking.

They’re feeble-minded, give them all the power in the world.


They wouldn’t know what to do with it and imagine that time of the month.

Oh boy.

Oh, forget is, you know what?

I finally feel like I’m on the side of the men, I think.


I finally get it, I get what they’re going for it.

Yeah, so remember our familiars episode, where animals, not pet rocks.


Unfortunately, just animals would comfort you and get you to make a pact with the devil.

They would like, kind of Sidle up and get you vulnerable.

And then they would have you hooked and they would get you to sign a pact with the devil.

That is kind of what we’re talking about here.

So the devil would tempt a woman with promises no more period cramps.


I don’t know what these great promises were.

And she’s so stupid.

She obviously say yes, she would just my next line, the new doctrine explained that women were weak.

I’m telling you if they don’t have a man.

Next to them to look at the contract.


That know what they’re doing exactly.

They’re just gonna decide their dumb little name on the line and then what they’ll just wish for more rain.

I go.

Yeah, I guess they’ll just have some more corn stolen from the field.

So this is what this Doctrine said, they’re weak, their feeble minded and they are already predisposed to do evil.


So there are very dangerous vulnerable population because when the devil swoops in and tricks them, So feeble minds they are going to fall for it.

Interesting, interesting.

I wonder what the data was there.

Like, if it was just this Doctrine and men are saying that they’re like of the superior mind and are better at thinking through anything.



Not a single one of them went that doesn’t track to know what.

Nope, just just blindly following and and agreeing to everything.

Some people even believed this is disturbing that Norwegian women were committing adultery with demons since a Stayed home while the men were out fishing for long periods of time.


So I love this, it’s like keep the women at home, but guess what?

While they’re at home, they’re also doing terrible things, that are ruining our lives.

I’m out here working hard and they’re at home, having sex with demons, what?

It’s like that.

Also goes to show you that a man just has no idea what a woman does, every day, that’s that’s the thing.


It’s like, what could they possibly be doing?

I come home to a full dinner and a clean house, and the kids are all in bed, cooking, and cleaning that takes like, what five minutes of your day, you must, Doing something else.

Another important element of the new doctrine was that witchcraft was no longer just an individual practice.


This was a collective action, so, which is could gather, this is very dangerous.

You see?

Because when you put all these feeble Minds together especially when they’re under the spell of the devil, they could gather, they could strengthen their numbers and I could pass their witchcraft on to others.


So this is very dangerous kind of parasite sort of situation A Parasite, that’s a pack mentality.


The wife is safe.

No butter is say your daughter will be just quickly thrown into this world and we’ll get to it.

But no child is safe either.


So sorry to spoiler alert, but there’s that as well, there were a lot of books published about this new witchcraft Doctrine and the ideas made their way into religious scripts as well.

I mean, at least shocking information ever and it’s still there today weird, it’s weird.


They haven’t edited that out yet.

You know, the most well-known book was called Malleus maleficarum and it was published in 1486, we talked about this during the weather, which is episode and I like to think we’ve gotten better at saying it.

It’s a lot of syllables I am here.


We are.

I am happy.

I didn’t have to say it.

Yeah, we were doing a great job.

Thank you politics and power.

Of course played into this as well.

The Danish Norwegian Monarch Cristiano.

Fourth was really really into witch-hunting.


This is like his favorite pastime.


All right, forget real hunting, he liked witch-hunting.

Great idea by The way he probably couldn’t put that on his dating profile because every woman would see that and go.

Oh, shut up.

Oh, well, you know, it’s probably the first time I’ve ever wished someone were into hunting, like, regular hunting some like I’d prefer that right over this right for once.


He actually issued a decree abolishing witchcraft in 1617, which I love.

It’s like, oh it’s let’s make it against the law, okay?

You know, aren’t you’re already all opposed to it but if you’re already hunting them for sport.

So pretty sure.

People already don’t want to be caught doing this.



I guess making it illegal.

Just gave them an excuse to be able to execute and torture people I guess that’s what he was going for.

So now high-ranking government officers were rolling this into their agendas.

So every time a new District Governor was installed.

There was a bump in the number of Witchcraft Trials.


It’s sort of this, like I mean, think about how you have politicians nowadays, who have this tough on crime approach.

This is sort of what was happening back then.

It was like, We’ll look, I’m going to be in Stalled.

And I’m going to crack down on this witchcraft problem, big, yikes, all around.


Basically, we have these conservative men in power and they hate women.

So super fun time to be had for everyone.

But surprised men were not spared.

These atrocities either.

So you know what men?

Sometimes you get wrangled into your own games, okay?


I’ll explain what happened.

Coming up next.

They say time heals all wounds, but sometimes time can do anything but welcome to cold cases.


The new Spotify original from par cast.

I’m Carter Roy.

Every Monday join me as I revisit the clues and miscues of some of the most elusive criminal cases in history, from burglary and arson to kidnappings and murder each episode of Cold cases.


Explorers, The many types of crime, the many ways, they remain unsolved and how long it takes to find the answers if ever will Justice.

Be served, only time will tell follow cold cases, free and only on Spotify.


We’ve established at The varta Witch Trials, were largely rooted in authoritarian misogyny but why stop?

There, there was obviously going to be a healthy dose of racism as well.

Because why not?

Sprinkle that in just the light pepper, I’d one-fifth of the population of finnmark was made up of an ethnic group called Sami and the indigenous, Sami had their own rituals and healing methods.


They use drums to go into a spiritual trance and seek answers about Health illnesses and cures.

Of course, the Norwegians misinterpreted this as sorcery and Sami rituals were demonized in popular literature.

Again, the seems Universal Trend country to Country culture to culture.


Not surprised not surprised that decree we mentioned earlier outlawed, even white magic, otherwise known as good.

Magic often used for healing as opposed to black magic, which is used to harm others.

So Sami men in particular were thought to be very good at source.



And that’s why there were a good number of Sami men who were tried.

It makes it so much worse because it’s like it’s not even about women being witches.

It’s about people who are underprivileged who are in a vulnerable state and they’re the ones being targeted.


It’s just generally being uncultured and just like not respecting other people’s practices.


Or minorities of any sort.

There was one small problem, which is that hey, this is happening again, witchcraft is impossible to prove but don’t even worry.

I am because they had their ways of proving it.


God, wherever you’re taking me, I’m mad.

Yeah good, good choice, good selection, the courts accepted what they considered circumstantial evidence and would basically as we’ve seen time and time again just torture women into confessing classic.


Yeah, this is disturbing and I feel like we’ve probably both heard about this tactic before.

So the circumstantial evidence was something called the water ordeal which is the Most understated name for this practice I’ve ever heard or deal really?


Yeah it’s just it’s just a small ordeal.

Do you realize you’re causing the ordeal your yeah.


It’s your yes.

Thank you.

And that’s probably what’s making me.

So irritated about that names.

Like what a condescending way to say that?

Like ver the problems like you built this, I guess I’m just gonna throw you into this Lake, what an ordeal for me you know, so the accused was thrown into the ice-cold see with their hands and feet bound.


Very traumatic.

And this is what I think.

Monty Python may have memorialized.

I think so too, because they, it’s like, they think of, which will float.


The float.


If they floated, they were guilty because water was considered sacred and able to repel evil.


So the water was pushing them out to say.

No, no, they’re evil.

Get away from me.


And if they sink, oh, shoot, they’re not a witch.

Oops, I guess we just drown them that on its own is a completely other.

Ordeal units attempted homicide.


Yes precisely.

But you know they had circumstantial evidence.

So I don’t think you should be worried about that.

It’s fine.

They did everything by the book.

Can you imagine if today someone tried to kill a person they’re like, you don’t understand.

They didn’t float.

That’s the problem.

It was not me but a logic just doesn’t really fly after the water ordeal.


Many of the accused would be chained up in what was called, The Witches hole and often tortured.

As if this hadn’t been enough already until they confessed, Boy, this is where I just get, I just steal myself because I don’t like the torture stuff.


And even at the Renaissance Faire, I can’t go into those torture museums.

It’s just too much.

So some of the torture methods included, the rack, which is you pull the body, apart by the limbs.

So disturbing red-hot, tongs was another one or putting sulfur on the breast.


That was another one, interesting.

Okay, I hadn’t heard that one before after they confess the accused would then be Coerced into turning on others.

Because remember, this is a group activity.

Now in the minds of these, these people in charge.

So one child would then lead to another and another, and the child’s would be linked and they would just have this perfect chain of people confessing and pointing fingers at someone else in town.


And this gave rise to what modern historians called witchcraft panics that could last months.

If not years and Amex just a full panic and how scary would that be if We’ve talked about this before but if somebody points the finger at you, and you’ve had nothing to do with any of this, but they just think of your name while they’re being tortured and it’s all takes spit yours out.


And now, suddenly, you’re on trial to, it’s very scary.

There were three panics or waves in varda, but let’s start at the beginning phase, one of the Witchcraft Trials was between 1600 and 1619.

Just a cool 19 years you know, right?


The first trial involved a Norwegian man.

Kristen the Taylor.

A Sami man named Morten Olsen, Kristen, allegedly paid Morton to cast a spell on the District Governor and both men were found guilty and burned at the stake.

The first finnmark panic came in 1621 sparked by that new sorcery, legislation of 16 17 and the placement of a new overzealous, thinking tough-on-crime District Governor.



So, 15 women were killed accused of causing a storm for years earlier.

Okay, so a Time ago that had no evidence left.

It was like literally washed away, just anecdotal.


And this storm had sunk 10 boats and killed 40 men and I guess four years later they’re still looking for a scapegoat you know and so they blame these 15 women who were killed the women allegedly attended Satan’s Sabbath as animals on the night of the storm, what?


Okay, I just okay, that makes zero sense but The thing that’s the worst about that is that you know somebody had to be significantly tortured to have confessed.

Something this outlandish?

Yeah that’s the thing.

A lot of them become so outlandish because you’re you know they’re just getting pressured into saying whatever comes to their mind.


Yeah it’s disturbing.

The second Panic happened between 1652.

And 1657 after multiple storms sank, many ships, I mean, we’ve talked about this with weather which is but the stress of bad weather and thinking.

Wow, I might be blamed for this is just yeah, unfathomable to me, I mean, think about like if there’s like a Cloud Rolling In and they’re like, do I die tomorrow?


Because of this, am I going to jail?

Because the storms going to ruin my neighbor’s crops?

Yeah, maybe oh God, dozens of women were tortured so badly, they confessed because the prospect of death actually started to appeal to them, which God, you know, you want the torture to stop.


It’s human nature.

For example, a woman named Kristen olstad.

Confessed to casting spells on two boats because she was angry with the men on board.

Well, and I think this is the best example of what you were saying of like, how outlandish these can be.


Okay, she confessed that she had shape-shifted into a large seal, then Dove under the boats and flip them over.

I’m like so you had they said it will.

How did you do it?

And she’s like, I didn’t do it but if I had to have done it, I guess I’ll come up with some animal that I Can think about with will also like, part of me, obviously like once to at first laugh because of how like ridiculous that story is but then you remember like first of all that story came out of being under duress and then sure a legal reason I want to laugh is because it’s so unbelievable.


And yet that was like more believable to the men than her.

Just not being a witch like, in a storm knocking a boat over.


At some point, they’re almost has to be like a study on like the men themselves in this, like, groupthink or this mob mentality.

Aldi of like, oh, her becoming a seal that’s more logical than her just having no responsibility for this.



It’s a bedan has.

No it is and it’s like there’s no way out when I feel like, you know a lot of these scenarios.

It’s so hopeless that it makes sense to me that they would confess because what they’re just going to keep being put through this.



It’s just an abusive relationship with the whole town.



There’s no way out.

And so it’s very, very scary.

She confessed quote-unquote confessed under Extreme duress.

And she claimed that she had learned this shape-shifting witchcraft from another woman, the third and final Panic centered around an alleged curse, on fin marks Regional Governor.


This dude repeatedly accused witches of trying to cast a deadly spell on him.

But he, he was like, I have been so fortunate because I’m so close to God, that none of these deadly spells have worked on me.

Barf, okay?

Barf breaking news, a man considers Solve above all, others.


Also like sidebar, he claims to be powerful enough to be unharmed by Magic, but other people are being tried for witchcraft.

Yeah, so he on the one hand, he is important enough.

High enough and powerful enough figure to be targeted by witches, but right?


He’s so special that these targets and these attacks just kind of flow off him.

Like he is too close to the his holy spirit.

He’s good.

She’s witches are not going to touch him even though they really want to.

It’s just right.

Oh, barf in the, the barf, just, I feel like he was like, the Andrew tape like that time, just like a big Alpha like, oh, nobody could do that to me.


No one would do that to me.

You know what, Jesus himself whispered into my ear and said that I’m special.

And so now I can’t be touched by, which has such this.

I’m sorry, I know you want to, but you can’t so Scholars.

Now, view this as a brutally violent case of political propaganda on Surprisingly.


Yes, I think he was probably just trying to make himself, look good.

Such a power trip to be like I wasn’t affected, but everybody wants me.

I’m too powerful for this world, I guess.


Yeah, in this final Panic, even girls as young as 8 years old accused and thankfully, they were acquitted because of their age.


But, you know, you only imagine the trauma and the fear that this probably does to a child and the parents as well.

Well, even imagine like that’s because they’re eight.

What happens when Are like 18, like, they’re people going to come back and try to get them again or something, or or like what happens to them in the meantime where people think they’re saving them from witchcraft great Point.


Like, have they been marked now for the future?

You know, that’s a very scary.

Thought are like, harsher rules placed upon them and childhood so that they don’t turn evil even though it’s been imposed on them or right now.

Do they have to like read the Bible every day and put on a show of Cast Away?


Satan, you know, I don’t know.


Up next.

How this awful era of violence and Injustice?


Thank goodness.

Came to an end.

Thank goodness, is the best way to say it.


Thankfully there was a judge that was smarter than the rest and was largely responsible for finally ending these Horrors.

And it’s always telling to me when there’s one person who can kind of step in with a little bit of reasoning, empathy, logic, and really turn this whole thing upside down, and I always think like, why are there not more of those?


Ought to stop bill.

I wonder because like I think like oh finally it took one person with the brain to for people to start coming around, but maybe it was just the only person with privilege that.

Good point, good point.

I mean, in power, I’m sure a lot of women were like, this doesn’t make sense and yeah, everyone, they could not say it, right?



Took one man.

Those probably all it took and it one man in power, but I think that’s also a lesson, you know, like yeah, there are plenty of small people on the bottom saying something or thinking.


But if they don’t have the privilege, or the power, or the authority to do anything, like, hello step up, everybody who have that Authority very frustrating.


But he finally showed up and he said, you know, I think burning people alive based on rumors or circumstantial evidence is a little much.

It’s a little crazy, it’s a little silly.

They’ve been going a little too far, and he actually defied public opinion and the local authorities to dismantle these laws that allowed the witch trials, which honestly was probably a dangerous move.


I am so I’m thankful that he did it anyway.

Yeah, I was going to say like that’s really putting himself at risk there.


So I’m thankful for that and in 1687 a new law was introduced.

Requiring Parliament to review, judgments in witchcraft cases before they could put anyone to death.


So there had to be kind of, more of a process.

Obviously, still not ideal.

But at least a little better than just, hey here.

You have free reign to execute people.

You know, at your leisure.

Yeah, at least something got done, but also like 87 years.

You’re too late.

It’s a little too, little too late situation.


But you know what?

At least we were headed in the right direction and Norway’s last known which execution took place in 1695.

So, this was legitimately a 95 year long poof just trauma.

I imagine for a lot of people it’s just amazing.


Just it’s mine mind-blowing.

Yeah, it’s such a long time.

And very scary, very scary.

That it took that long for anybody to step up and say, hey, why don’t we turn this around, you know, A little much.

It’s a little sweet, a little extreme today.

You can actually visit the location, where The Condemned were thrown into the sea and where they were burned to death.


And I think that’s really powerful that you can go to this site and Ponder and think on what happened here, and I don’t know if everyone believes this, but I imagine the energy there is pretty wild.


Very powerful.

A lot of horrible things.

Obviously happened there.

So as far as varda goes today, Norway’s Queen unveiled, the staleness mmm-mmm-mmm.


Ariel in 2011 in varta.

And this is a memorial, overlooking the coastline.

It was designed by sculptor and artist Louise Bourgeois and architect, Peter Zone Thor and it’s made up of two structures.

So before we recorded, I looked up photos of this, it’s very powerful Memorial.


The first structure is a 400 foot long hallway flanked by white sail cloth, suspended by Steel wires, which is sort of a nod to the area’s fishing industry.

Mmm, and you enter by walking up a gangplank.

So, A little bit of a powerful almost metaphor there, and the corridor is lined with 91 small Windows.


Each one is representative of a person who was killed.

Wow, that’s powerful stuff.

Yeah, a light bulb illuminates each window and a plaque tells the victims story.

I have Goosebumps.

Wow, really powerful stuff.



A way to use your art, you know, yes, like yes, exactly, exactly.

And then AT Pavilion leads you to a steel and smoked glass box.

In there is a chair with a Burning Flame in the middle and mirrors above it reflect.

And distort the Flames to make you feel like you are in the fire again.


What a way to use your art because I mean talk about a way to have a memorial in place for these people and make it that powerful oof.

It’s true, it’s true and and people who say, you know, art it doesn’t do anything.

Well I would argue that This is probably more powerful than just a chapter in a history book, you know.


Yeah, definitely a VOC something, because I got goosebumps everywhere me too.

Me too.

All right.

I am.

Well, that is the story of The varda Witch Trials, yet another in the long binder.

We’re creating evolved these awful times of history and hopefully in the past, you know what I’m saying?


Yeah, I mean I said it earlier, but I do look forward to the day where we have no more Witch Trials to cover.

I can’t believe that it’s, it’s such a global Mobile experience and not a single one has made any sense to me yet, so it’s just wild.

Yeah, it’s very dark.


And again, you know, especially timely when we’re talking about persecuting, people, and blaming them for things, just going to leave it at that.

But I think, I think we know where we stand on that.

I know also that in, and that’s why we drink.

We’re always trying to find a way to lighten the mood after a dark story, and I always fail to deliver.


So today I’m hoping I’m hoping, but maybe we can finally And on just a light, a lighter note.

Okay, a palate cleanser a little bit.

I’m we’re still talking about witchcraft so we’re not really cleansing the palate of much but okay, we’re gonna try.


So the concept of Witchcraft means something completely different today and I think as people who are very interested in Witchcraft and know which is ourselves, I just think it’s an interesting turn that we are able to have that privilege of dabbling in witchcraft or learning about witchcraft without the Threat of death.


Oh such a privilege.

I can you imagine a witch from then seeing?

Oh yeah possible today like a true witch not so much true but like right accused of it but I would like to thank they’re really happy that the world has changed somewhat.

But also like man I feel for them not being able to practice back then I really I feel like it’s definitely changed.


I mean among Society but I think there’s also just better rules in place like you just can’t kill.

People could for a because you have an opinion, right?


But no I also think it’s changed a little bit.

Maybe in terms of like, what witchcraft means to people.

Mmm, the way it was always described to me and I’m not speaking for all witches, but my stepmom who’s been practicing witch for longer than I’ve been alive.


She always described it to me, is just to her, it is truly her religion and her faith and it comes from just wanting to be closer to Nature.

And so instead of praying to God’s, she’s praying to, you know, she’s appreciating what we have here and what could be above, what could be below.


And so I know she’s like all of her spells are very nature based and so it’s kind of just it’s a lot less quote scary of a concept than what I think.

A lot of uninformed people think it is all of her spells are made of like water and sticks and leaves, and it’s like very much like not that much of a spooky thing.


But on top of it, I think that this in the world were in today where people are really into True Crime and all the creepy stuff, the version that my stepmom has always followed where it’s like, more about nature and Appreciating what’s on the planet.

But there’s also this other category.


Now of people who are really like leaning into the, whatever you would Define a spookier or creepier, and just learning more about, what it could all mean and appreciation for that.

So I feel like there’s like an interesting marriage happening between those two worlds, totally, totally.

I feel like it’s much more acceptable nowadays to express an interest in, kind of the darker sides of humanity.


And I think those definitely go hand-in-hand.

Yeah that’s kind of my Ending of modern witchcraft to and I know people practice in different ways and I mean, we had already talked about that recently in an episode where we talked about how, you know, I mentioned the eye of Newt is not really an eye of Newt.


It’s a mustard seed, and yeah, how a lot of times there’s this understanding that, like, oh, witches are like cutting up animals and putting, and that’s just not the case.

I feel like parts of, it are actually much more simple than people are trying to scare people with, but I do appreciate that in today’s world.


Maybe it’s just comes from.

I know a lot of people in the which Community are also strong feminists.

And so I wonder if like the small gear elements were all interested in stems from, you know, people being outspoken feminist since like, well, we couldn’t do this then.


So now let’s really Embrace what they couldn’t pay attention to the lately or the True Crime stuff.

And people are into darker, spookier elements of spirituality and so that just kind of falls back into it.

I think there’s just a lot of because the world has changed.

People have changed.

And in the other things are just more welcome now.


So totally totally great.

Like for example, witchcraft in general is no longer viewed with that same suspicion or hostility and I also think part of it becoming more mainstream is there’s not this understanding that.

Oh, people are communing with the devil, every variety do witchcraft.

And I think, you know, when that kind of died down when the satanic Panic of the 80s kind of died down the hostility toward witchcraft lessened a bit, it’s become much more mainstream and you know there’s more Focus now on Magic and healing.


We’re not just running around killing people over practicing this without any sort of evidence or proof or what have you.

And I think you and I probably both agree that witchcraft is something powerful and fascinating, and the rituals behind it, especially the nature-based ones.


I find I find really, I don’t know comforting and, and Powerful.

I agree.

Yeah, 100%.

Thank you for teaching me all about this.

I’m sorry.

It’s such a dark matter again, but But I appreciate getting to learn a lot more.

I feel like it’s probably for the best that we sit down and deal with the the sad histories to at least recognize them.



You know what I mean?

These stories deserve to be told.

So I’m honored to have told you about it today.

And thank you for bearing with me.


Thanks so much for listening.

We’ll be back next week with another great episode information.

On today’s episode came from witches of the high North by live Helen Williamson.

The judge who stopped The Witch Trials by Hans Peter Graver a timely.

Remembrance for witch hunts of the past by Karen Gardner, the finnmark Norway, Witchcraft Trials, Discerning patterns from the archives by Gwendolyn Hostetter.


Are the 17th century vardø.

Witch Trials by David nickel, the New York Times and the work of live Helen Williamson.

Remember to follow rituals on Spotify to get a brand new episode every week, and you can listen to this and all other episodes of rituals for free exclusively on Spotify.


And if you liked this show, follow at Park asked on Facebook and Instagram.

And at Park has Network on Twitter.

You can find me at the M Schultz and you can find me a text and Schieffer.

Thanks again for listening and we will see you next week.

Rituals is executive produced by bacteria.

Max Cutler and is a Spotify original from par cast.


It was created by Max color, sound design by Kristen Acevedo with associate.

Sound design by Jamie Ryan research by Sapphire Williams fact-checking by Hayley Milliken.

It’s produced by Kristen Acevedo and Jonathan Ratliff with production assistants by Ron Shapiro.


We’re your host, Christine cheaper and M Schultz.