How's Work? with Esther Pere - From Bartender to Business Partner

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What you’re about to hear is an unscripted one time counseling session focused on work for the purposes of maintaining confidentiality names, employers and other identifiable characteristics have been removed, but their voices and their stories are real.


He’s been the bartender.

She’s been the boss.

He’s been more than the bartender.

He’s been the loyal manager of the bar.

And for the 1st time, they are going to partner together and open attic area, which they hope will become the beginning of a chain of successful Tech areas for the last few years.


She’s had other partners, primarily family members, and perhaps, this is why she never discussed Equity responsibilities.

And She would like to do it differently this time.

And so, with this new business partner, she hopes to have a clear sense of who does what when, and how I just I feel continually undermined.


The job has always been that place where I’ve been needed and I feel important a lot of the people that work for me are like an extension of my family.

There’s no doubt that you’re emotional and relational.


Dowry comes with you to work.

Imagine going to work every day, and I’m really busy place and no one will make eye contact with you.

I mean, it feels like a breakup.

It doesn’t So, how’s work?


You know, I’ve had work Partnerships in the past that we’re in, really like talked through because I didn’t know that I had to and now they’re really difficult.

They’re still active.

They’re still active and they’re a mess from the beginning.


We didn’t have like really good.

Clear, communication about what we wanted, what was expected.

There wasn’t a clear agreement ex-husband’s.

It’s a family member.

It’s a family member, but they like ex-husbands in.

Sends that you have an ex-husband with when you have kids and you have to continue to raise those children.



Yes, and then you’re right.

Something like that.


Have an ex-husband has.


So, you know, we are building this new partnership for these new business and we have a friendship with work together, but I know that we need to do some work in terms of what is agreed.


What is the spec tation?

Like, what’s this commitment going?

To look like because it’s going to change so much that if it’s not cleared from the beginning.

Once we get working, it’s just going to be head down working because that’s the nature of the industry that we are in and you have Ex-Wives know, I have in the metaphor.


I have a City full of Ex-Wives here, right?

But meaning, for me, the x is also when you sit in this new partnership, And you talk about expectations.

It is my sense that our expectations in any new relationship are often.


Influenced by the relationships that we had, before the good ones, the less good ones, and the god-awful ones.

What would you say is the some of the history?

So, our group grew up with my mother, you grew up in the US or Robin Colombian:.


So, I grew up in Columbia with my mom and my sister and dad had another family, and then I moved to the state’s when I was 17 solo.

Con, La, Familia Sola.


I came, I had family here, like a herd and uncle and an aunt.


And that Uncle is my partner.

That I’m dealing with at the moment.

So there’s a lot of like, history, father like history brother of my father.

Yeah, that matters to I would imagine that it matters.


But so yeah, you know, when I arrived here at 17, he he has really been a very influential person in my life.

And for a long time, I said that he was like my father and I’d first when we first.


Open this business.

I read, that was what that was for the restaurant.

Okay, and I was the working partner.

So I just kind of dove into that work head on and worked really, really hard for a long long time.

Not really knowing what was expected and I had two little children and I was married at the time.


It was, it was a lot of effort and like energy out all the time and he wasn’t even around.

We said we were going to have this partnership, God Alone.

Got the thing started and like Midway through.

He said, I have to move back to Colombia because I’m in love with this woman and I need to marry her.


So we didn’t even know but he wasn’t even around.

You do open but by yourself, yeah, so the restaurant still runs.

Yeah, and he’s a successful restaurant.

It is like it’s been up and down up and down.

And a lot of it is because I’ve been learning us.

We do because he wasn’t around to teach me.


Did you think you would give up when he left?


It wasn’t even an option that wasn’t even an option.

I have decided that you could either be really pissed at him.

Because he left Midway or you could I’m some in some weird way almost appreciate the fact that he’s finally out of your way and you don’t have to deal with him because he is anyway, not particularly helpful.


And therefore you can just do your own thing.

So I think I’ve felt both.

I think I felt I think at the time I didn’t know it but I’ve always said that one of the biggest blessings was the fact that I was able to do things my way.

Even though it was really hard to start to learn them on my own, but I got to do them my way but I think for a while I was still like quietly resentful because he left, you know, and I felt like he abandoned me.


Like you felt.

Yes, absolutely.

And he may be men.


Whatever in Partnership is one here.

I and so part of your legacy is all these men, leave they fall in love with somebody.


D they leave they don’t even live for love for love.

This is yeah.

It’s like a Latin soap opera Novella and that it’s played out in my intimate relationships, too.

They promise you the moon and then they vanish.



Appeared of Abandonment, for sure.

She understands that her uncle which is her business partner in the restaurant and who was here, when she arrived to the u.s.


Is the father that she never had.

And now she also understands that the uncle Ilyas business partner, who’d effects and leaves suddenly in the middle of the job.

Also is reminiscent of the father who abandoned her.


Both cases, she felt the loneliness of the abandonment but also the freedom and self-determination that came with it.

He’s 50/50 with you.

He’s 50/50 and you’ve been doing 100% of the work for 10 years. 12 years, 12 years while he’s 50 50.


Yeah, this is a conversation.

We need to have we like here and I need to have and what stops you from having that conversation.

Well, I try to start.

So I started this conversation.

Three years ago was like, hey, can we come we figure this out?


So I’m not feeling like I can continue to do.

This, can you give me that and he’s hard.

It’s hard to bring him to the table to have a conversation.

It’s really emotional for for me.

I feel like I cannot.


Have a strong argument around him.

How young do you become?

I don’t know.

I feel like he he knows how to like money, believe me emotionally and I can’t really like State my ground like say, hey, this is not okay.


I really feel really vulnerable around him that cause he was good to you when you arrived here.

Yeah, and because we’ve shared some really hard things together.

There is a history of this in our family of, like working together and people taking advantage of it.


Other, and then, like, big fights, family, split.

Nobody talks, everybody’s in a camp.

So I was like, I don’t want to do that, and we’re doing it.

But this Dynamic of working with the family members.


Uncles, aunts siblings.

By definition.

If you have, you know, if you, if you have a business partner, that is not a family member and the business breaks up or the partnership breaks up.

You didn’t have other attachments often to that person.


When you have those kinds of breakups with family members.

You don’t only lose your business partner.

You lose the uncle who was there.

When you arrived, you who was your father figure, who has been invested with all kinds of other all emotional, Innings and therefore, you can’t really treat him like you would have treated someone else because he was once so important.


And if you cut him off, then you could have a part of your childhood and your history.

Everything is mixed know, at the same time because everything is mixed, people allow themselves to treat their family members in ways that they would never treat.


Somebody who was outside of the family.

Because I gave you therefore, I deserve.

And I was there and you don’t I mean more than just this.

So that’s one thing this time that you don’t have.

It is, does he know the risk you take?


Not the business risk, you take.

The emotional risk, you take, if you think that, you know, I think so.

I mean, I think that, you know, I’ve learned your story and I’ve been witness to a lot of this, like nothing that is being revealed right now is a surprise to me.


I mean, I don’t think that you would leave right away.

I think that’s kind of where it, why we are, where we are, is I came in and I gave full commitment from the beginning.

Trust was a stet, was given an earned and all of that and it’s kind of maintained, and I think that’s why this is even a possibility when you have a.


I think that for me.

The way that I see this as being successful is, if we can create this thing.

And have sort of like, a template that can be replicated.


But if we do what we’ve done in the previous things that we’ve done, like that is going to be really hard.

That’s why I’m always telling you like, you know, like we really need to have a structure in a system because we, we can like, tie ourselves.


So, Intimately into what we’re going to do because then we’ll never have the trust that somebody else is gonna be able to do it as good as we do.

And there’s no way that we can grow.

Are we really thinking like big picture with this like with this because I’m actually a little worried that this is not going to be enough income for you to let right.


Is this going to be enough?

Like these plants are like getting married and like the family thing like is it going to be enough and can We get out of the way to think that way.

Let me just ask you something.

There’s a moment every time you describe the past, where a surge of sadness appears.


What is it that you’re touching on?


I think that it’s, because You know, like work is been twelve years is a long time.

And you know, I’m not married in part because of work anymore.


So feel like that was like a failure that I had in my life, but I think for me things have shifted.

Where that energy that I had at the beginning.

Like, that is not there anymore.

It’s really not but you’re also telling me that.


The men leave the business because they fall in love and they have more important things to do while you stay working and you just told him that you want to make sure that he’s got enough income this year so that he can marry.

Well because I know it’s something that you want to do.


Yes, but basically your left thinking I’m the one working while the man followed their hearts.

You didn’t say that.

I just heard that.

I mean, I sense you on the one hand, super excited about this new Venture, and at the same time.


There’s a way in which you would like to do it differently.

Yeah, for sure.

And then there’s a way in which this applies to him.

That’s the conversation that you just start.


Well, I think That. differently, I mean, We have this idea but we don’t have to do all of it.


Just us, you know, which is what I did when we first open the restaurant and I think when I did that, I really sacrifice a lot of things and maybe that’s the sadness that it’s there.

You know that there was so much that was put on hold.


Because I felt like I didn’t have a choice.

Like this is something that I had to make work whether I knew how to do it or not and a part of what you’re talking about is, how do I, how do I do a new business venture that still gives me room to also pursue my personal life?


Yes, but not just for myself, but for this partner to, because I know that That is important.

So, you know protective of his upcoming marriage to did.

I just hear that?


That’s what I’m hearing.

I saw your face and just to be clear.

There’s no upcoming marriage.

There’s also no no, I’m coming marriage, but I think it’s meaning, you know, the price of sacrifice.

Yeah, and you’re trying to tell him.


I’ve already gone through this.


I have more experience and I’m older than you.

And I know what it’s like to do every to throw yourself and do as you just said I would throw myself full.

Yeah because and I’ve seen it.

It’s a high price to pay.



I think that’s what it is.


And I think you know that.

I just think that is unsustainable because I experienced it in a lot of levels.

So what are some of the most important learnings for you that you want to make sure?

I feel like you take with you.


I feel like for the lifestyles that we want, where we were a little bit more removed.

It’s like what we’re trying to do with this new business, is create something that is a business.

Not a job.

Not a, not a everyday hustle.

It’s a, it’s a thing that kind of lives and breathes and you know, kind of runs itself.


Yeah, you know, I think one of one concern that I have is that, you know, you are Both like really like identify with what we do, like, as a like identity, like like we leave and breathe, and all of that.


And I know that for a long time, when I was doing that work, Just, you know, it got to a point where it was really exhausting.

We literally, you know, I wear the brand hmm on my body at all times kind of thing and identify with that.


So the success of the brand is My Success.

Not the not the financial success of the business.

So much as it is the perception of success.

Yeah, the perception of success is something that’s really valuable to me.

And I think it probably stems from, you know, my pursuit of of Ventures that were alternative to my family.


And I wanted to say, like look, I can be different and still be a success.

And success looks like this and I guess and I haven’t sold my soul and I’m still an artist and I didn’t just become a business guy, that pursues the money.



All of that is in there too.


What’s your girlfriend’s view on the whole thing?


I think she is supportive in that she wants to be supportive.


She has a much more 925 straight lays gig and You know this my work and my passion pulls me away from her and and you work with another woman.


And I work with and how does all of that and another woman that has a lot in common with me in all of those things ways that my girlfriend.


It’s a little bit of a foreign language to her and I try to do kind of the bare minimum to keep her satisfied.

As far as being a part of that but a lot of times she’s kind of a bystander more than she is an Part of it.

She comes, she supports events.


She is there and she’s lovely and people love her to be around her.

But you know, she was chill tune out when I started talking talking about, you know, spirits and Cocktails, and ingredients and things like that.

It’s foreign and the same way that I am with, with what she does.


Unless you serve her one.


Well, she’s happy with, she does this, she does appreciate that.

Do you feel a tension there?

I do.

Yeah, I do.

Even on this trip.

I’m out in New York eating drinking having a good time with someone.


That’s not her.

We don’t get a ton of time away from work.

And so, you know, I do feel like there’s she’s definitely jealous of this situation right now because it she doesn’t understand it and I’m away.

And I usually explain my life to people, as you know, I’ve got 90 90 percent of it as work that I love and so I’m happy to do 90% of it.


And then the other 10% I have to divide that time between my family, my friends, her, you know, everybody gets that sliver and I give it fully, but that means that everybody’s left with two and a half percent.

You know, the, a lot of the most important people in my life were left with this little babies.


How meticulously he’s But I think about all the time and they’re all hungry.

They’re all hungry.

And I and that’s what I’ve got to find the balance in because the only way to get out of that, you know, I’m I am looking at the future.

I would like to get married.


I would like to have a family and I have no idea what that looks like with a person that gives 90% of their time to this other thing.

That’s good.

That’s why I’m, you know, that’s why I’m 36 and haven’t been married.

Because I’ve chosen myself or whatever it is.


Well and I think the reason why I’m always bringing this up is because I had to make that choice for myself at some point is like, okay.

We are open these many days and then I have my kids these many days.

So, how do I make my schedule work?


So I can actually be present for my kids because if I am not, somebody else is going to have to.

And in my relationship with them is not going to be what I would like for it to be.

But I had to make that choice and I think I didn’t make that choice earlier when I was married and I chose work.


So I will you see him and you say been there done that.

Yeah, I think so.

You have a personal life.

I tried to have a personal life.

Yeah, it’s 10 they get two and a half percent take it.

So whenever I meet somebody I say I have my kids Sunday through Thursday.


So like I don’t compromise that time with them and I have Thursday for myself.

So, Thursday’s available, and then I work the weekends.

So that’s, there’s a sound good to you.

It doesn’t.


See you next week.


Yeah, that’s for like, how it is.

It’s a bit ironic when I asked her.

If she has a personal life that she basically parses out the seven days of the week.

And her day of rest is Thursday, which is the day for the boyfriend.


And that, that would amount to a personal life.

Then of course, they are the children and they are part of her personal life, Sunday to Thursday.

So there is the mother.

There is the businesswoman, and there is a sliver for the woman.


Yeah, so it’s now it’s not.

It’s going.

Okay, I guess but that’s also kind of this.

Well, I don’t know, maybe we just gotten beaten down to think that’s part of this industry.

But, you know, the way I view it is this like, I never interfere with my girlfriend’s life.


I am proud of her and and any opportunity that she gets to feel valued to travel to do anything.

I never say.

Wait wait ever.

It’s great.

Do live.

I want her to have every experience that she can and what I want in return is the same thing that if I get an opportunity to travel to New York to get a bunch of great food.


I want immediately that to be like, oh wow, awesome.

Good for you.

It never feels that way for me and I want to feel like we’re cheering each other on and moving forward, except that you are very clear.

When you say 90% of me goes to work right?


And then within those ten percent she gets to So when you say I’m going to do one more thing.

It’s very, it’s not easy for her to say, oh, go ahead have a great time, enjoy.

Because most of these things are not about her or with her, right?


And how many years has she been accepting this living with this?

She’s we’ve been together for two and a half years and is no end in sight because you’re about to start another business right now.

She’s not happy.

It’s a kind of a no-brainer.

It is very hard to sustain relationships in the midst of this.


So she’s been very patient.


And instead of exciting to her.

I don’t get your support from where she comes.

She’s But that right.

He’s been quite generous.

And may I say I guess you give what did you say?


There’s nothing I’d want do is 20 hours of me fully giving I would venture to say that the best of you goes into the business and the leftovers come home.

That’s true, you know, the quality of your conversations here when you discuss pricing and Aesthetics and locations and all of that stuff you’re engaged to present, you focused.


You’re interested.

When you go home, you probably want to chill.

Right, and I think I defend that by saying.

I’ve I have as I’ve gotten older, I’ve been very clear with people that I meet and saying this is who I am and I know that that I know that that doesn’t mean a whole lot, but I’d like to think that she’s attractive that this is what.


Well, she can’t be attracted to the guy who is gone.

Most of the times 6 to 7 days a week and then comes home, exhausted.

What’s attractive about it?

You’re right.




I mean that’s one piece this, you know, it’s amazing.

She’s waiting for two and a half years because seriously, you’re not you’re not giving there for good reasons and maybe did you choose not to, at this moment, but you need to be aware of that.


You can’t pretend that she gets something really special for, which she should be willing to let you be gone, right, you know, seven days a week.

Number two, is the two of you are aware that because there’s Artist in you.

And because there is a certain attachment to the businesses in which you feel very much like they reflect you.


There’s a part of you that has often favored how it looks more than what bill it pays.

And that doesn’t mean you haven’t paid the bills because you wouldn’t be holding a restaurant for 12 years you doing fine, but that when you make choices, you often will make aesthetic choices.


What they call Brand choices more than Revenue to I would say, definitely, that’s more me than you.

I feel like you’re more more practical, you’ve learned.

You’ve, I just had to learn you learn.

Okay, so this difference is useful.


You can fight over it or have tensions over it.

But in fact, it’s useful.

Because she will think over the stuff you don’t think about and you will think over the stuff that she may still value.

But doesn’t allow herself to think about and so you’d become, it could become really complementary.


If you make it work, well, right and it’s not always a cutting it in the middle, you know, in Hospitality.

I am sure that this is a trade all the time back and forth.

It is how much it costs, how it looks, how it tastes Etc.


I mean, this is the essence, one of the essence is like balancing act.

Like you’re always there.

Do you ever consider, you know, joining organizations where you can get input?

There are, there’s a lot of experience out there, and a lot of what you have had to learn.


You have learned alone.

You figured it out, and that works up to a point.

There’s a certain growth that you want to have now that demands you talking to people who’ve done things like that.

I’ll take what you want and you leave other stuff but it looks like you need more than just the two of you like mentoring.





That don’t have to be necessarily specifically in your industry.


You hit you need both those who are doing what you do and therefore, no specifics of that.

But also those who doing other things, but have grown things have scaled things.


Yeah, I think it’s scaling.

It’s really and I’ll tell you one thing, just on this one.

The amount of these organizations who are looking for women entrepreneurs.

They will all have opened doors.

They want women.

And then on top of it, foreign women or immigrant women.


You’ve got everything on the cashier.

Sorry, dude.

They have boot touched upon.

Various other aspects of this Business Partnership, but the one that is glaringly present.


That I see the entire time I’m talking to them, is the fact that here is a immigrant Latina woman and a white American men, younger and that, that complementarity must play a role in why they are together or how they are together and how people view them.


And how the divisions of roles will be distributed because of The intersection with the particular backgrounds that they bring and it influences, the way that they can relate and speak to their employees, the ones that are in the front of the restaurant, the ones that are in the back.


The ones that clean the tables and the ones that are at the sink washing the dishes.

What’s your attitudes towards your employees?

How do you how similar different?

Oh, I think I love and respect where she comes from, because I’ve learned it a lot of it from her.


She gives everything she can.

It’s her mission to make, you know, to provide a safe and friendly work environment, like all the, all the goodness that you can put, there is something that’s very important.

To her.

And it’s something that I’ve witnessed and and that I value Open Door people.



Oh, yeah.

I’m very loyal.

It was the yeah.

For the most part.

We have a really strong core of employees.

I think for me, a lot of the people that work for me are like an extension of my family.


So, our relationship just doesn’t stop at work. it’s it’s a lot more energy and a lot more investment, but I feel like It just makes work so much more.

Gratifying for me because we spent so much time together to have a feeling that the stuff listens more to her.



Our existing staff, you know, I’m a manager.

She’s an owner and so it’s always the buck stops with her with the kitchen.

Who’s mainly Spanish-speaking.

You must learn Spanish.


You must learn Spanish.

If you’re going to be in this business, with her doing, you know, mass and Tacos.

You have to learn Spanish, right?

Like, you’ve learned the language of cocktails, right?

You have to learn the language of Spanish.

By the first one to tell you that.


No, it’s something that I’ve wanted for, but I’ve never put the time.

It’s like, it’s I’ve chosen to spend the 90% on things, the 90%.

You can tell every employee to start to only talking to you.


It’s pretty enough quick.

This is going to go.

How do you think she learned English, right?

He was thrown in here.

Did you speak any of this before you came some?

I knew some.


I know some English.

She still learning.

I’ve teacher.

Well, it’s a two-way street.


If you don’t, they will always be a barrier.

Not that you can’t do it, but they will always be a barrier.

And you could totally do it, because then, when something really important has to be explained, she will have to step in to come and explain it talking back kitchen.



I think a lot of the listening.

For the staff.

And I think, you know, this is something important for us to consider as we move into higher new stuff for this place.

Is that a lot of their listening of you is that you were a white man. and if we’re going to hire like Latin American Staff, They’re going to listen to you from that place and that’s something.



It is a challenge.

I mean, not we I mean, we talked about it a little bit but there’s always even if there’s respect and understanding and compassion.

I can’t change the fact that I’m a white man.


Hmm, and that, that is going to filter their everything.

Yeah, they’re listening and and all of that.

You have a lot on your mind.

Well, yeah.

I was just thinking that like it just came out.

Like is that one of the reasons why you want to be partners with me?


Because I can facilitate that those conversations and those relationships.

Oh, I mean, I think it it’s a big part of that yin-yang kind of situation.

You know, you’ve made me you’ve been a major part of how I’ve fallen in love with Latin American culture and Flavors and all of that stuff and you know, that it’s a genuine love that, I really connected to it, but you give validity to that.


And so that’s why I think that this makes a good partnership.

I’m bringing like the authenticity to it.

You bring on any hey, when the police are called, you call me your white guy.

Yeah, um, business will make them.

Oh my God.

Me ask you something, given that we are here and that there are things that you want to discuss.


Let’s use this place to discuss some of these things that you have wanted, but have not brought up to each other.

Has anything come to mind for you?

I know that discussing the partnership agreement was a request that she wanted to address in this session.


But so far we have talked about a lot of things and we have yet to touch the partnership agreement.

So we transition to this tough moment where we discuss facts figures and numbers.

I think that.


I think we need to sit down and have a operational, you know, like a an agreement on.

How is it going to be down to like the little?

Yeah, like, literally, this is how the money is divided.

This other work is divided.

And when this happens, this is how we’re going to deal with it.


Like that, clear, like, right, nothing.

You don’t have an operation agreement right now.

We don’t.

And I don’t have one with my other partner.

And we this isn’t the first time we’ve had the conversation, but just like so many other things.


It’s like it can be on a to-do list, but, you know, the business is going to open in two months.

And if we haven’t had it done then, everything else is going to get your way.

And we’re not we don’t want to be nitpicky and cold when it comes to a 50-50.


On paper is one thing, a 50-50, emotionally is a different thing.

I am nervous of once we get down to those the nitty-gritty that it’s going to become an offensive thing like herb.


It’ll be okay.

It will become less relational thing.

It just gets a contract.

And a contracts will have things for when things don’t work out.

Not when they work out and you don’t need the contract, and the contract will not show all the warmth and the love.


That’s not what the contract is for.

The contract is actually for for, in some way for when, if the relationship was falling apart, but you need one, you’re avoiding it because because it’s all about the numbers, and less about who we’ve been for each other in what we’ve given each.


Other know, that that’s a It’s story.

I have it is a necessary one.

I think it is.

And I think for me, I know that accolades are something that rarely interest you.

And I think for me something that I want is to re-establish myself as your partner in this and not, you’re the vice president.


And so I feel like as long as we go into this partnership.

Saying, you know, this is us.

It’s not you, it’s not me.

It’s us and it’s always us as long as we just stay true to that.

That’s one of one of my fears because of the, your perception already in the town.


Because how long am I going to stay the devoted boy of mrs.

Such-and-such, right?

And that’s the perception because I know what our relationship is.

She knows what our relationship is, but It’s important to me that it’s clear everyone not from a not from a status standpoint, but just because a receipt is no status involved.


Oh, okay.


No, there is status involved.

I shouldn’t say they’re both have a way of underplaying the stuff that matters to you because because the brand and the picture in the image and it matters to her.

She just doesn’t say it out loud because in case it won’t happen.


She will be less disappointed.

But of course it matters to her.

That’s fair.

I definitely I mean it’s not just matters to you.

I’m so many years.

You’re going to be number two, right?

And that needs to change.

You need to be able to both be more honest about that.

Together is there’s nothing shameful about it.



What now?

I’m just thinking about what you said.

I think this honesty thing is a hard thing for me.

Yeah, I don’t want to justify it as like a survival thing, but I think that’s what I strive for in this partnership.


I want to be able to be honest.

Me, too.

I want to be honest, too, because I feel like fine.


I want to feel a true partnership.

I want to be able to tell you, when I think I’m being taken advantage of.


Even when it’s wrapped in this, beautiful Narrative of we’re family.

You know, and I’m very really on the one hand talk about boundaries, but on the other end, we have a kind of a culture in which boundaries are there, but they’re often crossed because we care because we are family because we Justified yes, we justify.


We have a whole way of basically constantly trespassing on the boundaries.

So honesty is what specifically for both of you.

I think you did a great place by the way, even the very fact that you’re stating in like this.

So, keep going.

What is honesty for you and in this?


I think I work hard and I like to be seen for the hard work.

I guess that’s that’s a really important thing for me is getting you know, working for the credit of them, receiving the credit, never having anything fall through the cracks.


Did, you know, did you see that?

I did that.

Did you tell me you saw that you did that.

Did you then tell me that you appreciated it?

And I’ve and I feel like that that’s where I live, you know.


So what I would say to that is that I Might not be able to catch everything that you do and recognize you for it.


So if I don’t then don’t take it personal because it’s not intended to be personal and why not because you don’t do it for you.

Is that why I just said that out.

Is that one know what I was thinking is that because I’m doing something else and I’m I miss it right because I’m my occupied with other things.


The same way that he needs to learn Spanish.

You need to become more attentive.

Yeah, that just say if I don’t don’t take it personally.

Right now it’s I will try to be more attentive to this.


I’ll try to be more interested.


This is also a language to.

Yeah, I get it.

Then it’s a language to now, of course, you will miss and he doesn’t always speak the language either but it’s different to say.

If I don’t do it.

Don’t take it personally.

Versus, you know what?

I get.

This is important and I will make an extra effort.



So honesty Huh?

so, I think for me, honesty is about Yeah, being able to say exactly what I need like, this is what I can do for this business.


And this is what I cannot do for the business.

Just like being able to like say that and not be judged that I am not doing enough.

I think that’s where I live.

I’m not doing enough.

I’m not doing enough.

Yours is under doing enough.


His is I’m doing so much.

Does anybody notice?

Those are the sub stories.


Key pieces that color the expectations that you bring to relationships.


I think that they carry you and your life as well.

Generally the same narratives that we bring to work.

We bring to life to love to family the circulate in the same way.

See and part of why you may fail to recognize what he does is because you’re not even busy with the recognition.


You’re just busy with.

Am I doing enough?

I think there is some sort of like, same thing for me that comes up in the recognition of it.


Like, yep.


What am I to say?

Like, I’ve made it or yeah.

Or like this is really great.


So anyway, my love.

No, no, don’t jump over this quick.

I think you’re right on the mark.


Yeah, I don’t know why, you know, where that’s from.

I don’t know where that’s from.

Do you know what?

Let me see if I can see it.

It’s usually from the historical back kitchen.


It’s usually in La Familia.

Gosh, I don’t know mean.

It’s probably going down to damn Mom and Dad’s, you know, like their breakup and the way that we were raised, you know.


Say more.

Mom and dad were a couple, but they were not married, and then I was born.

And then he was kind of like playing around with somebody else.

And then he left Mom.


And I got this other woman pregnant and got married to the other woman.

So like he didn’t choose us.

It was always them.

Maybe this.

That’s what it is.

Sounds like worked hard enough to show him or to show whoever got out. but maybe they that I was worthy enough to be chosen.


I think that’s it.

Yep, and I think I do that a lot.


Can you see it?

Oh, yeah, I see it.

I struggle with it as your partner because I see like so clearly what I’ve worried.


What I worried you don’t see.

In that, in that you have so much to be proud of, and that you are so successful as a human being not, not not, not even as a restaurant or, you know, to fight for the recognition of yourself for it, but you don’t know how to receive it.


You know, I got.

So this is The gift that awaits you.

From the little bit that I know, because I’m not fully involved in everything, but it seems like there’s a constant kind of it’s like, a know, like, like you were saying like the like a TV show them as, you know, there’s there’s drama and happiness, and disappointment, and all of this stuff going on at all times.


It’s like this, you know, it’s always never-ending how many seasons to telenovelas, last, this one’s going strong.

This one’s been picked up for another.

Other season.

So what is this telenovela?


She has a long history of disappointed.

Relationships with men who let her down and he enters a Business Partnership, realizing that he is the next man who has to prove to her on some level that he will not disappoint her like all the others have and this is where the tachycardia enters.


Esther perel is a best-selling author, speaker, and host of the podcast.

Where should we begin to learn more about Esther perel?

It’s world to sign up for her newsletter, or to apply to be on the podcast.

Go to S diaper /, how’s work?

How’s work is produced by magnificent noise for gimlet and Esther perel Productions.


Our production staff includes Eric Newsome.

Evil watch over.

Destry Sibley, Alex Lewis, Kristen Mueller and are coordinating producer is Lindsay rutowski.

Our recording engineer is Noriko acaba.

And Damon, Whittemore is our mix engineer.


The theme song was written by Doug slavin and the executive producers of housework are Esther perel and Jesse Baker.

We would also like to thank nazanin rafsanjani, Matt Lieber, Darian, the beach Courtney Hamilton.


Kelly Roos, Nick, oxen Horn, dr.

Guy winch, Paul Schneider, Thomas, Curry Shawnee, avram, and Jax all