Kim Kardashian's The System: The Case of Kevin Keith - Episode 1 - Life & Death

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Voice Over 00:00 The System contains adult content and may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

Police Tape 01:08 Scene of a homicide at 1712 B Marion Road. In the living room are two shell casings. In this room, we have shards of glass. We have a blood spot on the floor, blood spots all over in front of the door. We enter the living room area. In this room, we have two bodies. One against the wall, which has been tentatively identified as Linda Chatman. Her top is resting on the feet of another body laying on its front, which has been tentatively identified as Marichell Chatman. There were four other people shot, three of them children.

News Clip 02:04 30 year old Kevin Keith was arrested at his home in Crestline, halfway between Bucyrus and Mansfield. He is charged with three counts of murder for allegedly killing three members of the Chatman family, including a four year old girl.

Tonya Strong 02:23 Kevin, you’re accused of heinous crimes. Children were shot. Did you do this?

Kevin Keith 02:30 No. I didn’t Tonya. I love kids. I could never commit a crime like this. Never. Never.

Tonya Strong 02:41 When I talked to you on the phone, you didn’t seem nervous. But you look nervous now. You look scared now.

News Reporter 02:49 Are you sure it’s him? And you do know why, you’re not telling?

Police Chief Joe Baron 02:51 Well, I didn’t go to bed last night worried that we had the wrong man. Not at all. Not at all. I don’t know that we’ve got the only man involved, but I’m very confident that we’ve made a good arrest here.

Kevin Keith 03:01 I just find it kinda strange that the police haven’t questioned me at all about this.

News Clip 03:06 What do you think about it?

Kevin Keith 03:08 I think it’s a frame

Charles Keith 03:09 They’re just trying to speed everything up so the media don’t catch up.

Attorney James Banks 03:19

They’re relying merely upon the fact that it was a large black man that they saw in the project area, and then being shown pictures of Kevin, and a person saying yeah, that’s the person I saw that night. If that’s the information they’re relying on. That’s not too accurate.

News Clip 03:33 Three other shot at the South Bucyrus apartment did not die. And now our sources say the survivors, all three of them have identified Kevin Keith as the gunman.

Ruth Keith 03:42 I don’t believe he did it. He ain’t never been in no trouble like this before, so I don’t believe he did it.

Michael Corwin 03:48 Do you know who shot you?

Richard Warren 03:50 No. I have an idea, it was Kevin something.

Michael Corwin 03:57 You’re sure? Is there any doubt in your mind at all?

Kevin Keith 04:01 Hey, how you doin?

Kim Kardashian 04:29 Hey Kevin, how are you?

Kevin Keith 04:31 Good. Good to see you again. I haven’t seen you in a while. Yes, it’s been awhile.

Kim Kardashian 04:36 I know. How are you?

Kevin Keith 04:37 You look great. I’m doing good.

Kim Kardashian 04:39 Thank you.

Kevin Keith 04:40 Yea, I’ve been doing good.

Kim Kardashian 04:41 Good. Good. I’m so glad they’re letting us do this.

Kevin Keith 04:45 Well, I appreciate the opportunity.

Kim Kardashian 04:48

The voice you’re hearing right now is Kevin Keith’s. At the time of this video call. Kevin is sitting in the Marion Correctional Institution. He’s been in prison for the last 28 years.

Kevin Keith 05:00 Well, last time I talked to you, you were, I got to meet some of your friends. And you got to meet some of my sisters. Right. Well, I’ve been pretty much you know, doing what I do and that’s programs, mentoring and things like that. Just try to get guys in the right direction and keep myself in a good place. And that’s pretty much my comfort zone when I’m busy and help the guys out, being a shoulder. That’s pretty much it.

Kim Kardashian 05:30 Kevin was convicted of a triple homicide in Bucyrus, Ohio, in 1994.

Kevin Keith 05:36 I don’t get that chance to really talk to anybody because I got to be that guy for so many people, my mom. I got to be that guy for family. I got to be that guy for inmates. I’m just that guy. Okay, so I go outside and walk the yard some times talking to God. I’m like God, I just need a minute. Okay, I just need one minute.

Kim Kardashian 06:01 Over the last few decades, Kevin has tried numerous times to get his case reevaluated.

Kevin Keith 06:07 That’s what it is. So I gotta bear that.

Kim Kardashian 06:12 That’s why I’m really hopeful with this podcast. Just to get your story out there. Because I think it’s so important for people to understand that, just our system is so fucked up.

Kevin Keith 06:28 What else can we do? We can just get the story out there. And hope that, you know, it gives people you know. I don’t know. I don’t know, Kim. I’m just tired. I’m at that point to where I’m tired, and so, I don’t know.

Kim Kardashian 06:51 The case of Kevin Keith and the Bucyrus Estates is deeply twisted and incredibly heartbreaking from all sides. But before I tell you about this case, let me explain why you’re hearing it from me.

Voice Over 07:11 Welcome back to Celebrity Family Feud everybody. The Kardashian Family, once again!

Kim Kardashian 07:17 I did the show Family Feud a few years back. And one of the producers came up to me and said that he had a case. People always ask me like, oh my god, do you have a second, like, want to talk to you about this case of like a family member or someone that’s really close to them. And one of the producers came up to me and they pitched me Kevin Keith’s case.

News Clip 07:40 It’s been described as one of the worst murder cases and Bucyrus history. Six people were gunned down, two died instantly and a third died less than an hour after the incident. Keith is charged with

three counts of aggravated murder, which carry death penalty specifications and three counts of attempted murder. He said from the beginning, he’s innocent.

Kim Kardashian 08:02 I’ve only been on the case about a year. It really spoke to me. The whole situation sucks. And I just don’t feel like he was given a fair shot.

Lori Rothschild 08:12 Sometimes it’s like, I sound like I’m bullshitting you, like I like this is the reason why I’m so passionate about the case. It’s like unbelievable to think that all of this exists in a file somewhere. And how come I’m the one looking through it? It’s like no, look at it with me. I’m not. I’ll show it to you, too.

Kim Kardashian 08:30 I met Lori through the producer at Family Feud.

Lori Rothschild 08:36 My name is Lori Rothschild, and I am a television producer. And I specialize in true crime television.

Kim Kardashian 08:43 And so she came over with a huge notebook of details and information all about the case. It seems like she knew this case in and out better than any investigator I’ve ever met. And so when I sat down with her, I was so into it. And I asked her if I can keep her notebook, which was like her prized possession.

Lori Rothschild 09:01 Let me just pull this really quick. It’s a labor of love this thing.

Kim Kardashian 09:06 And I just said, can I keep it through the weekend? So I can just read through all of the evidence, I really want to like dig into this case. And she left it with me and I gave it back to her on the Monday and I was like, I’m in.

Lori Rothschild 09:18 I mean, it’s still a work in progress. So I think it’s six years of paperwork that has been accumulated in this binder.

Kim Kardashian 09:25 There’s been so much work put into this. There’s been so many people that have tried to help Kevin.

Lori Rothschild 09:32 I create these big binders to help me because there’s so many small details especially, you know, as an investigation happens, looking at a police report if you if you read it in a linear fashion from top to bottom, page to page, you think you’re getting all the information from that, right? But it’s like when did they say that, is really important in a case like this. You have to follow the dates not just the police reporting. But following the dates on all the reports actually create the timeline for you to be able to see where the mistakes have been made.

Kim Kardashian 10:07 This timeline sounds straightforward at first, but the deeper we go, the more the reported events of February 13th are called into question. Pay attention to what’s said here, because it’s the backbone of the case. These details will come up later. And not everyone has the same story.

Voice Over 10:39 On the night before Valentine’s Day 1994, in the town of Bucyrus, Ohio, a man approached apartment 1712 B of the Bucyrus Estates complex, sometime between 8:45 and 9pm. Six people were there that night in the apartment, Marichell Chatman, her four year old daughter Marchae, and her boyfriend Richard Warren, who had been living with her for the past few weeks. Marichell was also babysitting her younger cousins that night. Seven year old Quanita Reeves and four year old Quentin Reeves. Around 8:45pm Marichell’s Aunt Linda Chatman stopped by to pick up Quanita and Quentin on behalf of their mom Joyce Reeves. Shortly after this time, a man started lingering around the door of the Chatman’s apartment. Richard Warren opened the door and the man asked to speak to Linda. Linda let him inside. The man engaged in some brief small talk about the basketball game on TV. Then he asked for a glass of water, which Linda got for him. Richard Warren described the man as having a turtleneck pulled up through his nose covering his mouth. Warren reported that the man drank the glass of water through the fabric. After finishing the glass, the man pulled a gun out of the plastic bag he was carrying. He ordered everyone to get on the floor. Marichell pleaded with the man not to hurt them, to which he responded with something along the lines of well, you should have thought about this before your brothers started ratting on people. Then, the armed man opened fire into the small apartment and fled the scene. Richard Warren, though wounded, was able to stand and make a run for it. He ran towards a nearby restaurant named Ike’s, screaming for help. The gunman fired at Richard again outside, striking him once more and causing him to fall onto the snow. In her first statement to the police, a neighbor named Nancy Smathers reported seeing a large stocky black male leave the home in a hurry and get into a light cream colored car. The man revved the engine and peeled out attempting to leave quickly. However, Smathers said he quickly lodged the car in a snowbank. Smathers reported seeing him rock back and forth to shake the car free from the snow before speeding away successfully. Smathers said the man she witnessed wore dark clothing, a winter coat and a hat. She stated that his face was not covered, but she couldn’t make out any discernible details. Richard Warren, bleeding from his multiple gunshot wounds finally reached the nearby restaurant Ike’s. At 9:06pm a 911 call was placed. Richard Warren was rushed to the emergency department of Grant Medical Center while Quanita, Quentin and Marchae were brought to the Children’s Hospital. 39 year old Linda Chatman and 24 year old Marichell Chatman were pronounced dead at the scene. Four year old Marchae Chatman died later that night the hospital.

News Clip 13:43 Police Chief Joe Baron says a single gunman opened fired on the little girl and two women in their apartment complex Sunday night. The shooting which occurred around 9pm also left three others wounded.

Ike’s Worker 13:56 I looked inside and I just seen the bodies laying on the floor, two inside, one to the right one to the left and two smaller bodies, one in front of the couch. Bent back. Another one on its side over towards the TV. No movement or nothing. It just made me sick when I opened that door, seeing them little kids.

Voice Over 14:20 Two days later, Kevin Keith was arrested at his fiance’s home in Crestline, Ohio and taken into custody. He was charged with three counts of aggravated murder, as well as three counts of attempted aggravated murder. Kevin Keith was never questioned by the police.

News Clip 14:38 The protesters lined the sidewalk in front of the Crawford County courthouse to show their support for Kevin Keith charged with murdering a Bucyrus family on February the 13th.

Kim Kardashian 15:00 Kevin Keith’s trial began on May 10th of 1994, only three months later. This is unbelievably and concerningly fast for a capital murder trial. Kevin was represented by defense attorney James Banks. Banks had never worked on a capital murder case before.

News Clip 15:19 Keith was charged with three counts of aggravated murder, which carry death penalty specifications and three counts of attempted murder. He said from the beginning, he’s innocent. Keith, who was accompanied by defense counsel James Banks of Columbus maintains his innocence and claims it’s a mistaken identity.

News Reporter 15:39 How would they come up with something like that?

Kevin Keith 15:41 I don’t have any idea.

News Reporter 15:42 Fair of me to say, who you think did all this?

Kevin Keith 15:45 I wouldn’t have any idea who would do something like this, especially in this area, and it would take somebody was crazy. And I don’t know anybody like that around here, that would hurt those kids.

Kim Kardashian 15:55 There was lack of physical evidence presented during trial that explicitly linked Kevin Keith to the crime, such as forensic evidence or a weapon.

News Clip 16:04 Defense attorney James Banks said the state lacks evidence including the murder weapon.

Attorney James Banks 16:09 They searched the apartment where the crime was committed. They considered fingerprints. They considered glass samples fiber samples, and yet not one piece of evidence was retrieved. That would point to Kevin Keith.

Kim Kardashian 16:31 The trial lasted two weeks

News Clip 16:33 Presiding Judge Nelfred G. Kimerline will give the jury as long as it needs to reach a verdict in the Kevin Keith murder trial in Bucyrus.

Judge Kimerline 16:43 Otherwise, you can go for as long as you want to, we’re certainly not pushing to arrive at a decision.

Kim Kardashian 16:49

Kevin’s friends and family express concern that the jury selected was all white, especially considering that the key witness surviving victim Richard Warren was also white. In fact, Richard Warren was the only victim that wasn’t black.

News Clip 17:04 Keith’s family and friends are still professing his innocence. And some are questioning the decision of an all white jury.

Gracie Keith 17:11 We’re very hurt. Banks presented a good case. I don’t think they heard they heard anything. I don’t know what the jury heard what they thought. But we know that this is a racist town.

News Clip 17:24 Keith’s family chanted “we love you Kevin” as he was led out of the courtroom and back to the Crawford County jail where he’s been since his arrest February 15th. If convicted, Keith could die in the electric chair.

Kim Kardashian 17:39 For Kevin’s friends and family, the outcome was the worst imaginable.

News Reporter 17:44 His execution day is set. How do you feel?

Charles Keith 17:47 We expected it. We expected all of this.

Kim Kardashian 17:51 This is the voice of Kevin’s older brother Charles Keith, Kevin’s biggest advocate.

Charles Keith 17:57 And it seems like we went back to Warren’s testimony to sink him. When the prosecutor himself said, Indeed, he Warren cannot identify Kevin with certainty. Now how can he remember a speech? You’re talking about fabrication.

Ruth Keith 18:11 They lied. Everybody got on that stand and testified lied. And everybody was in there listening knew that, even including to Judge Kimerline.

News Clip 18:21 Russ, did you expect the outcome today to be what it was?

Russell Wiseman 18:24 No, I expected it because there was no there was no mitigating factors present in the case.

Kim Kardashian 18:30 This is Russell Wiseman, the prosecutor who presented the state’s case against Kevin.

Russell Wiseman 18:36

Given the the manner in which the crime was carried, out the motive for the crime and the lack of any explanation for or excuse. I really wasn’t surprised. Like I say, I don’t take any joy in these kinds of cases. I wish it never happened but under Ohio law, I think the jury made the right decision.

News Clip 18:56 Keith’s execution date is February 13, 1995, the one year anniversary of the slayings. Reporting for WMFD, I’m Rhonda Davis.

Kim Kardashian 19:28 The court ultimately ruled that Kevin should serve the death penalty for the three murder convictions and also serve a seven to 25 year prison term for each of the attempted aggravated murder convictions. Of course, he wouldn’t finish serving that time before he was executed. As Kevin sat on death row, he watched his petitions and appeals be continuously denied by the court system. Eventually he fired his lawyers and took the case upon himself for a while. His brother Charles helped him investigate. In 2007 Kevin sought new representation in Rachel Troutman, Assistant State Public Defender. In 2010, the year of Kevin’s scheduled execution, Troutman petition for clemency. Only a higher governmental power could change Kevin’s fate. And now it rested in the hands of Ohio Governor Ted Strickland.

News Clip 20:26 State Defense Attorney says new evidence clears him.

Rachel Troutman 20:29 The Ohio Parole Board must recommend and Governor Strickland must grant clemency for Mr. Keith. Any other result will be irreversible, sickening and a tragic mistake.

News Clip 20:40 Keith’s brother, Charles helped deliver 10,000 signatures to Governor Ted Strickland Tuesday, urging him to stop next month’s planned execution.

Kim Kardashian 20:48 Finally, Governor Strickland commuted Kevin’s death sentence, only 13 days before Kevin was scheduled to be executed. Now Kevin is serving a life sentence at the Marion Correctional Institution. In other words, though, Kevin narrowly escaped capital punishment, he is facing life in prison. And in his mind, it’s another slower death sentence. Today Kevin’s legal team is preparing to file for clemency for parole, a process in which a higher authority, in this case the Ohio Governor Mike DeWine, would be considering Kevin’s case for a reduced sentence or reinstated rights. Kevin Keith, his family, and his legal team are hoping for a pardon a commutation to time served, which would release them immediately. Or at the very least the possibility of parole.

Lori Rothschild 21:47 This case, actually is the very first case I ever opened as a wrongful conviction, that I ever even considered to be a part of.

Kim Kardashian 21:57 Again, this is Lori Rothschild.

Lori Rothschild 21:59 It crossed my desk through another case I was working on. I remember my friends saying you should look into the case of Kevin Keith, do you know the Kevin Keith case? And I said I don’t I don’t know. It’s

a wrongful conviction case. My thought in my mind it will everyone says they’re innocent. And how hard is it to prove that someone actually didn’t commit a crime they were convicted by a jury of their peers. You know, this is the system that I believed in because I came from a law enforcement family. I think the first piece of information that I saw was that a local Cleveland magazine had done an article on Kevin Keith. In this article, they talk about another person being paid to commit this crime. And the police knew about it. In me, just looking into that part of it, it started the twist of all of the other things that were so wrong with this case. And I also realized that that information about that other person being paid to commit the crime didn’t come out until like 2007. Kevin was convicted, and the crime happened in 94. And that’s how he got his clemency. Why didn’t they give him life with parole? You’re just basically leaving someone in prison to die.

Kim Kardashian 23:20 Was someone paid to commit this crime? I was intrigued by this. Like Lori said that information didn’t surface until 2007, over 10 years after the crime took place. We’ll get into the alternative suspects later. But there’s a lot of ground we should cover first. Hello, hi guys.

Erin Haney and Jessica Jackson 23:45 Hi. Hi Kim.

Kim Kardashian 23:48 So I have another case that I want you guys to look at and see what you think. It’s a case in Bucyrus, Ohio, and it’s about Kevin Keith, who was sentenced to death for a triple homicide. A family was involved. I have read over all of the evidence. His sentence was commuted. So he was relieved of the actual death penalty pretty close. Right now you’re hearing me discuss Kevin Keith’s case with my personal legal team, which includes attorneys Erin Haney and Jessica Jackson. These are the two same attorneys that I worked with on my first wrongful conviction case that I took on the Alice Johnson case.

Alice Johnson 24:36 My name is Alice Johnson. I’m a mother, grandmother, and great grandmother.

Kim Kardashian 24:43 And she was in prison a life sentence without the possibility of parole for a nonviolent drug offense. That was her first offense. When I looked at it, I just didn’t understand how their first time nonviolent drug offense, got the same exact sentence as Charles Manson. Like that, to me didn’t make sense. And I thought, okay, there’s something wrong with our system. So I sent the video to one of my attorneys, Sean Hawley, who actually was an attorney on the OJ case with my dad. And we always stayed connected. We looked into it, and I thought, well, what can I do who can change this? Everyone told me that the President that Donald Trump was the only one that can commute her sentence and give her a pardon. And so I was advised by a friend to call Ivanka and she connected me with her husband, Jared Kushner, who reviewed the case looked at all over brought it to the President, and within a few months, we got her sentence commuted.

News Clip 25:45 After more than 20 years behind bars, this was Alice Marie Johnson’s first full day of freedom. She was released from federal prison in Alabama late yesterday after President Trump commuted her life sentence on a drug conviction. Mr. Trump tweeted today, good luck to Alice Johnson have a wonderful life.

Alice Johnson 26:02

I’m feeling no handcuffs, nothing on me. I’m free to hug my family.

Kim Kardashian 26:08 That was just like unheard of that we were able to get that done. And I couldn’t just stop at that. I saw how successful we were with that. And I want to just do more. So I figured like Alice was the face to show people. Hey, like, it’s okay if we let people out. See, she’s a sweet, great grandmother that like would never harm anybody. And to me that put the face on reform and why people deserve to be out.

Alice Johnson 26:40 Never in my wildest dreams, did I think that it will be Kim Kardashian, who would take my cause on.

News Reporter 26:46 In prison yesterday, she got a call. It was Kardashian West.

Alice Johnson 26:51 When she say at home, just that word. I could go home now. I started screaming and jumping and..

Erin Haney 26:58 So he, he has I think right life without parole, though, right? Wasn’t that that what they commuted it to, which would mean he would never get a chance to be free. So part of what you’re doing it sounds like is trying to get enough attention and support so that he would have a chance at justice and freedom.

Kim Kardashian 27:18 Recording this all interviewing him, his brother, anyone that would talk to us on the other side, all sides and creating a podcast. Maybe from hearing this, someone will come forward maybe just by publicizing this.

Kevin Keith 27:44 There are reasons to be on outside, right? Okay. I mean. Think about this, this is what haunts me. Okay, this is what haunts me, this is where my demons come in. And that is the fact that I could have been executed in 2010. September 15th. My attorneys, Rachel, and my attorneys came up with all this information, a lot of this new information after the fact now they came up with a lot of information before that you would affect the court, judicial system and saying, wait a minute, let’s put the brakes on this. Okay. Okay, we’ll give them that. But since then, they’ve come up with all this information that the state was using against me to prove my innocence. And I’m still sitting here. So that’s the judicial system for me.

Kim Kardashian 28:33 I know. And that’s the case for so many people and it’s so unfair, and it like, infuriates me. I mean, I it. I can only imagine how you feel, and I can’t even begin to put myself in your shoes.

Kevin Keith 28:48 I just didn’t think that you could be made a victim by the judicial system. I didn’t know the judicial system, would actually create a victim.

Kim Kardashian 28:55 Like, it seems like it’s stuff that just happens in the movies, like you really don’t think it’s a reality.

Kevin Keith 29:01

Exactly. And especially when it’s clear. It’s just they then broke everything down. Now they’ve exposed everything. And I’m still sitting here 28 years later. I’m probably only tell one person and use this word that I’m innocent. And the reason for that is because people don’t want to hear, especially from outside, they don’t want to hear it but they frankly like everything they bring around is innocent. That’s what they say. But that is the reality of the situation. There’s not too many guys I’ve met over the years say their innocent. But I say that to say I can’t approach young people and encourage them with the narrative of I’m a victim even though I’m a victim, because in order for me to reach them I could not complain. This is what I mean by sometimes I’m overwhelmed because I had to go with the responsibility. I talked a lot of time recovery service that I volunteer at and chair meetings and things like that. And so the first thing I do is I take responsibility because I teach this program called boyhood to manhood. And this is rites of passage program. And so six of the principles that we stress to the guys is authority, responsibility. and the sacrements, imitations, repentance and courage. Those are the six principles. So with those principles right there, I gotta stand on those principles and always go back to me. And because of my generation, a lot of young guys that I’m talking about locked up in prison. Their fathers are my age. So we kind of dropped the ball on these young guys. So the first thing I had to do coming out the box, I gotta take responsibility for myself, and for their fathers, so that they got a connection, because a lot of them didn’t have that. So now, when they look at me, I don’t want them to see a victim. I want them to see somebody that makes some bad choices in his life. Okay, taking responsibility for those choices. And moving forward.

Kim Kardashian 31:11 You’ve heard a lot of pretty unbelievable things about this case by now, how there was a lack of physical evidence, how the jury may have been stacked against Kevin how a report surfaced later and highlighted another potential suspect. And that’s just scratching the surface. There are a lot of details that haven’t been available to the general public. And that’s my goal, to make sure that you can all hear the facts and make your own determination. Because sometimes, our system is not as trustworthy as we’re led to believe. We’ll get into all of these topics and more during this podcast. But as I said before, this case is not black and white. And there’s more than one side to this story.

Damon Chatman 31:56 Talk about them. I talked about them all the time. I talk about them to my friends, how much I miss them, you know, and a lot of the good times we had together and stuff. And then I wish I just wish they were still here.

Kim Kardashian 32:10 This is Damon Chatman victim, Marichell Chatman’s brother.

Damon Chatman 32:15 When I heard about it, somebody called me, maybe call me or text me. I don’t know, but and they was like, I think it was a shooting at the Bucyrus Estates. And we’ve been oh, we’re on our way over there now. Soon as we get over, we see all the police over there by my sister’s house. Uh, we run in there. The police tried to stop me from going into the apartments. They wasn’t stopping. I go in there. My sister was laying beside my aunt and my niece was running up. She was running up steps. She was face down, face down on the steps with two shots in her back. I mean, I will never forget it. Never. Me and my cousin Charles, Yolanda’s son, knew who did as soon as we walked in there, we knew it. We both looked at each other once they made us come outside. And then Charles looked at each other and was like Kevin did this. And we knew it. We knew Kevin did it.

Kim Kardashian 33:23 I’m Kim Kardashian and this is The System.

The System: The Case of Kevin Keith is a Spotify Original Series, produced in partnership with Big City TV and Tenderfoot TV.

I’m Kim Kardashian, your host and Executive Producer.

From Big City TV, Executive Producer is Lori Rothschild Ansaldi.

From Tenderfoot TV, Executive Producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsey. Lead Creative Producer is Meredith Stedman. Production, editing, and sound design by Tristen Bankston and Cameron Tagge. Production Manager is Tracy Kaplan. Music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Mixed and mastered by Cooper Skinner. With additional support by Devin Johnson. Associate Producer is Jaime Albright. Voice work by Miles Agee.

From Spotify, Executive Producers are Julie McNamara and Liz Gateley with support from Podcast Executive Lila Benaissa. Senior Program Manager is Jessica Dao with support from Program Associate Matt Greene. Special thanks to Dawn Ostroff, Tracy Romulus, Christy Welder, Ollie Ayling, Travis White, and all the cross-functional teams at Spotify that helped bring this program to life.

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