Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Kristen Bell


Hello and welcome to armchair expert.

I am Dax Shepard.

And today, my guest is the lovely Kristen Bell.

She was Ronica, Mars Sarah Marshall, Princess Anna, and she’s currently Eleanor shell strop in the good place.

She can sing.

She can dance.


She can do drama.

She can do comedy.

She’s frustratingly, talented and special, and above all those things.

She’s my wife.

And even more importantly, she’s an incredible mother to our girls.

What is funny about this?

Interview is that I naively assumed.


This would be a slam dunk because we’ve acted opposite one another and a bunch of things and done dozens of interviews together.

And for the most part, those things have always been pretty effortless.

And in full disclosure.

She was my first interview because I was so confident, it would go well, but on this day this day, you’re about to hear.


We just were not getting along.

We were bickering and impatient with one another and the first half of the interview was a struggle.

In fact, I considered just leaving this unreleased because truthfully I’m embarrassingly controlling throughout most of it and she is by my estimation, very suspicious of my motives throughout But ultimately I have decided to put it out because it’s real and true and we do find our way back to liking each other.


By the end.

In short.

I want you to think of this episode, as the antidote, to our Samsung commercials, please enjoy.

He’s an object.


We’re ready.

Go ahead and slide your cans on.

I’m very excited to welcome.

What will definitely be the club.

The guest.

I’m closest to in the whole world.

Assuming we don’t have our children on Kristen Bell.


Thank you for joining me on armchair expert.

Thank you for having me in your little nervous.


I can’t because truth be told, we’ve been arguing for about the last 12 minutes or just little baby little thing.

Yeah, we’re both on edge and that’s not how I like to go into a public.



Yeah, or or public appearance with you, but you are annoying me.

So I’ve been back and that’s life.

And how what was I doing?

That was so annoying mostly just asking you to do this, right?

Is that the main point?

I did look I did have to go to Michael’s today.


And then I missing Garland and I really want that Garland, it ready folks that don’t go to Michael’s, that’s a yarn store.


It’s like a crafts and here’s a perfect example of why you’re being annoying.


It is a Crafters, not a yarn store, but it also has great Garland and And if you need yarn, where’s the best place to go?


Any of the McDonald’s knitting?

Taco Bell, not water Village.


Well, I associate, maybe wrongly Michael’s with crafts and yarn and knitting needles, those kind of things.


So you, you would prefer to be at Michael’s, you’ve made that abundantly clear.


But I also think because you have this new, you have this podcast now and you’re like excited to strip people down and I’m just scared.

You know, you’re going.

Well, that’s me because, you know, I don’t know a lot of stuff and I also don’t have a Good memory.

So you’re going to be like, but I have I have all your memories now locked in here, right?


So now this podcast with yourself about me, I considered it.

I really would prefer, I think everyone, but I did because I do a great impersonation of you.

Yeah, and maybe it’d be better if I just recounted all your stories as you good.

No, you’re not.

I love you.

You just, you were being annoying because you want to hear my impersonation of you sure.


Wow wailing.

Oh man.

Well, there’s another example of white black.

I was trying to get work done.

One for a job that I have right, which you have a lot of them and I’m very bright and you were talking over it and making jokes and saying, do you guys see the all the bay laurel trees?

We got outside?


And I was like, does he not realize I’m trying to get this done as quickly as possible?

So I can do this podcast, then your refuse to get a door on your bathroom, and I give you a perfectly accurate, observation that we could put a curtain, and you say it’s scientific, technically, impossible.

You just hang a curtain there.


This everyone knows we’re in a, what would be described?

I guess as an addict that’s been Inverted into a little room above, a garage of a house that we are at the brine, the north pole trying to move into and it’s, yeah, it’s shaped.


Well, I here’s the thing, you and I have different.


I wish everything could see this room because you and I have different ideas about nesting and how to welcome someone in here me, I would probably get the wood chips off the ground.

I would vacuum the carpet.

I would possibly take all the These like loose cords, this like open Live electrical system.


And so guys, there was a wall in here and it really cut into the open space.

So I tore the wall out with my own two bare hands which an actress of your caliber should be grateful that she married, a husband who knows how to tear a wall out.

But you’re not hearing any of that.

You’re just hearing all the complaints about the electrical complete.


I’m just saying if you’re going to be inviting people here to your podcast, you have to have a door on the bathroom, by the way.

If we went downtown to a new restaurant and it look like this, we go so cool.

They left all the electrical stuff, things.

You love to make observations about like current hip things.


Like you hate the word artisan and all this stuff.

You don’t.

We don’t know that.

All I’m asking you is in feet.

How many feet away is that toilet bowl from my face right now?

It is no, no, no.


You have to do is picture me Lane and and so I’m a little over six feet.

So I think it’s about 15 feet away from you.


I think that’s less than two bodies of you.

I think.

It’s probably one and a half, but regardless, let’s say it’s 12 feet of your close to the commode.

That’s inarguable.


And if you have a guest up here, let’s say Robert De Niro, does your podcast, he likely will.

Yeah, right.

So, he’s not going to want to go to a toilet that first of all, I can see into right now.


Hmm, you have to put a curtain on that.

Okay, you have their certain, the challenge you to have human beings want to spend time with you.

First of all, I hear you.

And I respect your opinion about this.

Secondly, I’ve spent dozens of hours in here, writing staring at that, exact doorway, which is at. 70 degree angle, the ceiling.


It is technically impossible to get a barrier between the toilet in the guests.

So this is just something I’ve come to accept and I think the faster, the guests come to accept that the better everything in the middle of the room when you’re having people over and you can’t do that.


How about this?

I need to go to Michael’s.

Anyway, watch this tomorrow.


I’m going to go to Michaels and I’m going to get you a beautiful piece of fabric that looks like it’s ripped straight off of use his robe old diaper pin.

And I’m going to hang it up to Hooks and it’s going to work perfectly and then at least I’m going to feel comfortable that if my girlfriend’s want to come here and do your podcast that, which, by the way is, I can’t wait for.


All your girlfriends.

See this is what this is.

Why you’re annoying.

I’m gonna give you right you started biting.

No, I’m going to give you a standing ovation.

If you solve this problem, the barrier between the commode and the guess I can’t wait.

Okay, and I’ll do it.


Well give you your propers.

I’m going to fix it.


All right.

Knowing that you were going to come on.

I thought of a story that probably we haven’t told them public that I think is pretty funny.

Love you.

And we I love you so much too.

I love you.

Even when you’re annoying.

Mmm, the more.

That’s the key you can get through.

The annoying times.

You got a shot.



So when we first met our very first time hanging out by choice, we were we met at a dinner party.

That was not our choice.

And then we ran into each other at the Red Wings game also not planned, but then we hung out intentionally, right?

We went to, what was your favorite restaurant?


You always went to a firefly firefly.

I met you and your friends there and then we ended up back at your house.

And you had a hot tub.

Yeah, and we went in the hot tub together.


With a God, my room.

All my roommates.


Yeah, but then they all that’s because they are, they peeled off, but they were there because they knew I was like dating and then it made me nervous and they want to make sure you they knew.


I was like top predator.


Yeah, like apex predator.

Well, they saw you and like most people immediately didn’t trust you.


So Ryan what it was like going in a hot tub with a jungle cat, like a jaguar or a leopard.





Anyways, so it ended up being just you and I in the hot tub and at a certain Ryan whispered to me a couple times, are you?



Are you sure you feel safe about this?

So you Ryan left.

And we were by ourselves.

And then you said what?

We were talking.

We’re in the middle of talking.

Then you said, well, here we go from my perspective, which I understand you take issue with you.


Like most guys unintentionally and perhaps even subconsciously your eyes darted down.

To my sternum area and perhaps the left and right side of my sternum, which I refer to as my breasts.

Yeah, and I said to diffuse the air because I noticed you pop down once or twice.


I said, what are you looking at?

My fake tits?


So use.

So Kristen said, what are you looking at my fake tits now in my defense and I mean, I maintain this position, I’ll admit anything.

You know me.

I’ve admitted the most terrible things possible.

That’s true.

They are very honest.



Shitting the bed in an orgy.

Okay, I’ll say that at a dinner party.


So what I’m saying is it’s weird to me that I would not admit looking at your boobs because I’ll admit to staring at your ass a ton that night.

I sincerely, my gaze definitely was probably on your boobs, but it was not.


I wasn’t looking at your bright.

But can I just tell you something?

You’re you’re an ape?

Okay, you’re a man, you do something, subconsciously, it even, you know, people, I work with don’t even realize it.

Look, I stare at everyone’s hair lines and I don’t realize it until someone’s pointing it out.


I don’t think that I’m staring at your hairline.

Yeah, but it will because I want to know what’s going on.

Yeah, but I felt I noticed you were looking down and I do believe 100% sincerely that you don’t think you were doing it.

Yeah, but as any woman can understand, sometimes their eyes Dart and they won’t, they don’t even know they’re doing it, right.


So that’s neither here.

Nor there.

So you did though.

We agree on this.

You said, what are you looking at my fake tits?


That was a very funny joke because I have very small.

Small boobs, but there are very very they were very, very perky.

You’re in your 20s.

At that time.


You were 27 and I was 32 and so they were very perky and then later.

So that was clue.

Number one for me.

So what are you looking at my fake tits?

Then clue number two was, we’re now dating for a couple months.

We go do when in Rome and you I know you’re in a show called Veronica Mars and I think okay.


I’ve got to watch this show as a good boyfriend.

I end up watching it, I end up loving it.

Becoming a marshmallow proper but between seasons 1 and 2.

You came into the room.

And you said, oh, look at this.

This is when I got my boobs.


Yes, right.

Yes, because at the time, in 2004 5, push-up bras, were like the hot ticket item?

Like real.

Proper push-up bras from Victoria Secret well-engineered.

Yeah, so I had discovered that, and in addition, I my hormones were sort of rearranging themselves in my 20s.


And I lost a lot of my like, some sort of chubby cheeks as a kid.

And, and my body started to fill out more like a woman.

So I got hips and I got boobs and I was 24 25 years old.

So again, because my breasts are so small.


I thought it was a very funny joke to say.

Oh, that’s when I got my boobs because look how late I went through puberty.

I actually have a boob that someone will recognize as more than a raisin on camera and that’s why I You said that?

Yeah, so from my point of view, you said, look at my fake tits.


And then you said, this is when I got my boobs, and then there’s another one, but it would be breaking the anonymity of a family member.

But another really, really spot-on piece of a piece of proof that you had fake boobs.

And so I was under the impression that you had fake boobs.


Yeah, and I thought, which I still to this day finds so, but we later cleared that up.

So yes, honey, you’re Always right about everything.

Well, I’m only going to bring up stories.

Where the punch line is is I was right?



So, you know, months are going on.


We’re dating things are great and you are occasionally making jokes about people with fake boobs or you’re making observations.

I don’t want to see your body, shaming anyone?

But between you and I are like jokes, but like we were I remember what you’re talking about.

We were at.

Yeah, like a Kate.

Look, you we live in Los Angeles and sometimes when someone walks in with an extreme amount of plastic surgery and it wasn’t body shaming.


I was like, whoa, where some of those bolt ons are exactly.

They look really, really, really tight or it’s like, aye caramba.

We’re like, you know, it’s insane.

And I remember what the breaking point.

Well, the first few times this happened over the course of months.

I didn’t say a thing.


I just was like, oh, that’s weird.

She has fake boobs, but she’s kind of making fun of fake boobs or observing fake boobs, or whatever.

And then finally, unlike the fourth time.

It happened.

I finally broke and said, what do you want me to do right now?

I feel like this is a test.


Like, should I join in and comment on these boobs?

And you were like, what are you talking about?

I will say to set the scene at the time.

We were in Hawaii.

I have very, very few memories.

But I remember this clearly we were in Hawaii.

I was wearing an orange Rachel Pally dress, which if anyone knows?


Rachel Pally, it’s like this thin t-shirt material.

You do not need to wear a bra with it.

If you have very small or I wasn’t wearing a bra with it was like a halter and we were in Hawaii.

And it was one of those like braless days where you’re wearing a sort of like bikini.

Stop and I said something about, oh, yeah, like wow.


Wow, we are something about a girl that had, you know, gigantic fake boobs.

And you said, is this a trap?

Yes, what am I supposed to say?

And I said, what do you?

What do you mean?

What are you supposed to say?

I’m just and I said, well, you have fake boobs, you had breast augmentation.


And now you’re making fun of this, and I don’t know whether I’m supposed to join you or stay quiet and I just can’t do it anymore.

And I, you are shocked.

Shotwell psaki.

To set the scene.

I wasn’t wearing a bra at the time.

I have no boobs and they were just it’s just like skin tags and I thought you think I did that.


You think I did this to myself?

And this is what I got.

Yes, and then later I purchased these, well, I was ripped off.

No, I and then I explain to you.

I have friends.

I have female friends that have had breast enhancement that have gone from an A, to a b.


And then you said, well, I would have some scars or something.

Then I said, I will just to further my point.

I wasn’t even a be, was an AI skin tags.

I know, I think you’re a bee.

I’m gonna give you a bee.

Why do you think that I have the brassieres?

And I purchased them.

So, as much as I want to say they were, they were nice.


They were beautiful boobs.

They were beautiful boobs, and they are wearing, they were inordinately perky, and it made sense to me.

One more Point.

There’s nothing to make them sag.

All right, hon, I’m scenes.

I’ve seen small saggy boobs.

They exist.

In fact, they’re not that rare.


It happens.

Well, so, OK.

I mean there’s your grandma’s.

Maybe yours were sitting sitting way up high as Bob Seger would say, there’s because there’s nothing to pull him down.


Well anyways, what is really funny about the whole thing is that for months?


I thought you had fake boobs and I was very disinterested in them.

If you recall.

Yeah, and then when I found out those things were real and they were that perky.

I was so excited wasn’t, I was all over.

There is a huge And you said, I said, well, wouldn’t I have scars?

Wouldn’t you see scars?


Because this is an important part of the story where you are, right.

So I’d like to highlight that to make you feel good.

You said they, you don’t need scars anymore.

They can go through your belly button.

I sound bitter, your belly.

No way.

But then I remember its name drop.

Minka Kelly used to be like a nurse’s assistant and I said, surgical assistants and I said, well said, love me and I know she’s done boob jobs, and I said, let me ask Minka and I said, can you go through your belly button?


And she said, yeah, absolutely.

Lutely, so you this whole time assumed that I had a hanger, I got really first class.

Well, I thought you had a really high-end boob job.

That is, there was no evidence of it.

Well, I’m that’s so flattering.

And now after I’ve had two children for you, I think you and you know, that who was right and who was wrong.


Well, yeah.

Now no.

Now, you know, I gotta say, they’re still in, really fine shape.

That’s another thing that you can could go much more south.

So I think things are doing great.

Thank you, honey.

Now, you and I differ in a bazillion ways.

All of them.


We’re almost polar opposite.



I love you.

Me too.


So one of the ways we differ is that I was not a kid who wanted to be an actor.

I didn’t, I didn’t know an actor, we live.

We both are from Detroit.

There weren’t many working actors in the whole state.


So it seemed Preposterous to me nor did I do theater or any of that stuff.

You wanted to entertain.

You were always the class.

Clown, your You wanted to entertain you were or what you were.

Pulling focus a lot in your life.

Let’s put it that way.

So I was deflecting from the fact that I was dyslexic and going to special ed.




Well, let’s not get too vulnerable.



So you did though you were what eight years old when you decided you wanted to act?



Yes and no I was always a mimic.

So I would I almost had a little, very little tic.


Where if I heard still having okay.

When we watch movies Kristen Whispers, almost every line to herself as we want every line, but it is I can’t stop it because if I hear it, I have to figure out how it can come out of my mouth, right?

You gotta see if you can do it.


I got to see if I can do it, so too, but to watch shows with accents, that’s where it kills me to watch Game of Thrones, Downton Abbey.

Oh man.

Yeah, you’re pretty much titles.

Two titles in everyone’s lives.

Don’t sit next to me while we’re watching something.

But any form nominated best picture you’re going to be That’s trouble its trouble.


Um, but I, I mimicked a lot of things as a kid and I was always really into music.

I was, I heard music everywhere and I heard things musically, so I started studying voice when I was younger.

It wasn’t eight years old, I think, but my mom knew that I wasn’t like big enough to play sports, or I wasn’t really succeeding in that, or do you play baseball on your stand out?


Let’s just say I did what my God you were right about half that sentence.

I did place.

Oh, well, you know, I guess when I was young anyway, The point is, I joined a local theater company and the sweet part of the story, the sort of like, Hallmark lifetime moment.


Is that my mom drove me to Stage Crafters, which is a local theater in Royal Oak, Michigan and sounds like they sell yarn.

She said, do you want to audition for this play?

And I said, yes, and I memorized as Shel Silverstein poem to say on stage and I was probably 12 which 113 from the where the sidewalk Weekends or Light in the Attic?


Hell if I remember how.

And when we got there, I saw that everyone was sitting in the audience, while people went up and performed my desire of to mimic or it wasn’t really even a desire to perform.

My hearing things.


Musically was always to myself.

It was very, very intimate.

I didn’t really want.

I like to be funny and make people giggle, but I wasn’t in an into performance yet.

And the fact that there were kids in the audience in adults, watching you perform it.

I feel very, very uncomfortable and I started crying left, the theater and I remember in the, did your mom give you a tough.


Love talk know which is weird because I have so few memories my memory, so awful, but I remember this very clearly, we were in the parking lot of stage crafters and she said, listen, you memorized this.

I think that you would enjoy this being a part of this theater company.

If you have a bad experience today and you don’t enjoy it, we never have to come here again.


We won’t even drive past this street again, that’s good.

Yes, so she’s basically Ali said, we can strike it from the record, if it’s embarrassing or humiliating.

We never talked about it again, and I could pep talk.

It’s a great pep talk.

It was a wonderful thing.

And I didn’t memorize that for, when the inevitable happens in our children.


One audition for things and I, I gotta, I was cast as a we did Raggedy Ann and Andy.

I was cast as a banana in the First Act in a tree.

In the second act didn’t have any lines but I really liked that sense of community.

You were like Eddie Murphy, you played it, all kinds of characters, Janna tree.


And I’m an object.

I loved the sense of community and I loved that people in the theater were allowed to be dorky and there wasn’t like this popularity thing.

There wasn’t this a standard.

It was like you were weird and wonderful, and I just I liked making the sets.

I liked was the Island of Misfit Toys.


Yeah, and I was still studying music and then I sort of discovered musical theater, but through at the same time.

My mom was recognizing that I was happy there and so she’s submitted me.

So like a local commercial.

Shal agent and well, yes, because that’s the part.


I’m now reflecting on his your mother’s sent us some VHS tapes or no rather.

She had transferred.

Some VHS tapes to DVD and on those you’re very little kid doing like monologues in front of the camera.

Oh, yeah, but but but you need that was that seems intentionally with the professional end in sight.


Yes, and I was probably between like 11 and 14 when I did that and I but prior to that prior to the invention of the video camera.

I would watch Disney movies and play them in the background so I could get some of the orchestration and on my boom box, press record and like do Ariel and do all of the and I don’t know what I was keeping those for and even when I was singing, my fair lady in front of the fireplace and I’d set up the video camera when I was 12 years old the idea that someone would ever watch that was humiliating.


I wouldn’t I would be way too embarrassed.

So again like this, I still have this like duplicitous nature about Acting where I really really want to do it, but I don’t want anyone to look at me doing it.


I think I’ve heard a lot of actors say though.

Yeah, but I’m interested specifically in the professional aspect.


So you’re putting yourself on tape.

You are auditioning.

You are in a Kmart circular holding a bicycle.

I’ve seen that picture.

So when you’re that age you were very much thinking.

I’m going to do this as a lie for a living.

Hopefully, when I grow up, yo, no, not at all.


I just kind of going through Steps not even realizing what it was that money.

We didn’t have a ton of money and I was that was a college fund for me.

I had not even thought about adult life or what I would do.

I knew what I enjoyed right now and I suppose if someone sat me down, which is actually what happened when I was 17 and my counselors office in my high school and they said what do you want to do with your life?


I said, I have no idea.

They said start with what you love.

I said, I love theater.

They said you can study that.

I said great have have a have a wonderful day.

That’s what I’m doing.


It was never an epiphany of I’m going.

To do this.

It was those Kmart circulars.

I mean you got 400 bucks every time you did it and we needed that we needed that money.


So, you know, you’re an enigma to me in a lot of ways and these are all the reasons I married you.

You have by my estimation a pretty pure draw to this.

Whereas and maybe it’s because I’m a comedian or whatnot.


I was a middle child.

I didn’t get enough attention.

I very much wanted attention.

I loved being funny as again, a defense mechanism for feeling stupid, for going to special ed, all these things.

You can you think of a motivation you had to do this?


That you feel like was maybe treating some kind of wound or helping you heal or it’s just it was fun and you did it like a sport.

Because it seems to me that you it was fun.

And you did it like a sport which is interesting.

It is that a lot of it is I you know, we’ve had this conversation before about what is being good.


What is altruism, you know, is it selfish or selfless?

Because when I’m helping people I get a real boost, I get an ego boost.

I like that feeling in some ways you could argue.

It’s very selfish to.


I’m going to get to that.


Great, but but when you are On stage and people are enjoying something but you don’t think it doesn’t.


So it just made me happy person.

Had many stepdads as I had many stepdads.

It was you and your mom versus the world most of the time.


I mean my dad was there but yes that 50% of my life was me.

My mom.


Well, yeah, you have like a latchkey, right?

Oh, yeah, uh-huh.

Your mom.


Worked hard on hours as a nurse.

So none of that.

It’s not like you went there and you felt like, oh, this is, I’m getting a bunch of the attention that I would normally be getting if I lived in a nuclear family with two doting parents and all that.


Yeah, maybe.


Now that you say that maybe because although your mom does dote on you quite a bit.



Getting attention.

From my mom was never my problem.

I think I felt big.


And you’re, you’re very tiny of people.

Yeah, it didn’t.


Well, iced.

I also have the child’s voice and I look young, and every time I go to the grocery store, like someone calls me sweetheart that that shit bugs me like, you know, that is no end.

That is interesting.

Because honest age size is irrelevant and not are you can be as powerful as that’s what it is.


It made me feel like I was acromegaly.


Why we think I probably felt powerful.

I felt like I was good at something because I I was, I have, you know, not had a a difficult life.

Like I I was accepted.


I had friends.

I wasn’t.

You were popular.

Yeah, but I but I was, I never felt really like good at something or special at something.

And I think when I discovered music, I particularly because music is so peaceful to my brain.

It when I was singing or when I was involved in a musical theater production, it, I was not turbulent at all and I wasn’t thinking about popularity or you know, divorces or anything like that.


It was just It was an escape and it was also something I felt very good at.

Yeah, confident.


Yeah, and one of the things that was on this tape because you would memorize different things, as you had remembered line for line, a very famous Lee, press-on nail commercial, which I don’t know if it aired all over the country.


It’s certainly aired about 300 times a day and the Detroit metro area.

And could you just refresh my memory of how that goes?


It was like this.

These are the amazing Lee press-on nails.

They press on in seconds.

No clue.

Uno, más.

Simply press on Lee, super sick, tabs, then press on Lee press-on nails.


That’s all easy on easy off, use them again.

And again, they just won’t break or chip polish in there.

Nearly impossible to Chip Lee press-on nails in a variety of colors for a quick easy, split press on, what’s so amazing about your memory that you’ve already referenced rolling glamour lengths.


It’s a sudden it.

You’ve referenced several times already that you have a bad memory and I can attest to that there’s like vacations.

You don’t remember we’ve taken but your ability.

Remember that type of thing because you haven’t done your Lee press-on nail commercial for me, in about a year yet.

It was right there for you.

Yeah, and then you are the exact same way with the lyrics.


Right lines from movies because I Thierry confusingly, be thinking neurologist would have a real field day stuttering, studying your brain.

When I’m watching something.

There’s something about me, that is more present.

I guess I’m an observer, which is strange because I it seems like I like to be in the center and And and making things up.


But really I think that my true personality is an observer and I’m just sort of regurgitating, a bunch of weird things.

I’ve experienced when I’m acting.

I think that’s false modesty.

I think you’re much better than all that.

So I think another unique thing about you.


I’m basically just going to go through all the things.

I find very unique and attractive about you.

Okay, you you have a kind of unique mix of good girl, bad girl, and that, I mean, You love rules you were you followed them to the, the T, the letter of the law and yet you also reason.




And yet you also had sex with people.

You weren’t hung up about that.



Yeah, you had some promiscuous sex.




It’s one night stands.


Yeah, of course.

I like that the fun.


And you also like would try drugs.

Yeah minimally.



I did.

I’ve tried smoked a lot of pot and college, right?

I also tried Ecstasy, but it didn’t work.

Because that what happened.

It’s my mushroom because look, I tried mushrooms and they were not real mushrooms.

So, yes, my intention was to try mushrooms with a bunch of friends that have done them before.


Yeah, and then I guess they didn’t work.

And I only knew that because the girls are with were like, these don’t work.

These are just like yard and you don’t have an addictive bone in your body.

Know we met you were a smoker and then all of a sudden a month went by and I reminded you you had not Locked in a month and you just quit, but had I didn’t even realize it because I’ve sometimes I would win and I was in my 20s.


I would smoke cigarettes when I was really stressed because it made me feel like that was something to take the stress away.

I think it was just like the movie cliche version of what I should do, right?

And those sacks.

Yeah, and then also, you’re right.

When I started hanging out with you, I wasn’t stressed anymore, and then you were like, don’t you smoke?


And I just didn’t remember that.


I had to remind you that you are a smoker, but I wasn’t really in.

It really is.

It was like on and I like I would buy a pack of cigarettes throughout my 20s every couple months, I guess.



And one time in college someone got ecstasy and I tried it and I can’t be sure it wasn’t a Tic-Tac, right.


But we did go to a Dave, Matthews Band concert.

And that’s where the confusing memories start to layer.

You don’t know if you’re just high on the performance.


Yeah, totally love.

Dave Matthews.


Crash into you baby.

Martin Sexton, you really, really love during that period.


But, um, So that’s kind of unique.

I think people are either goody-goodies and they don’t really do anything, or they’re like me in there scumbags.

So you’re kind of in the middle.

You’re open to trying things yet.

You generally follow the rules.


Well, I grew how do you make those decisions?

Like when is it?

Why is it that sometimes you would go?

Fuck it?

I’m gonna I’m gonna do Ecstasy.

I’m going to go to Dave Matthews and I’m going to pound some Molly get the party started.


It’s my using my own barometer of what is good and bad for me.


It’s also Promoting happiness reducing suffering.

If I’m with my friends and someone has weed or mushrooms or something, and I’m in my 20s.

I’m not raising kids like great.

But but am I going to go rob a liquor store?


Or am I going to like, you know, I’m gay.

I can’t, I literally can’t even think of anything else bad.

But like, do other bad things.

My thing was, am I causing someone else suffering?

If I’m not, if I want to have sex with someone, and I’m in college.



And I’m consenting, and he’s consenting, and we don’t want to have a relationship and it turns out to be one time.

No one suffers.

They’re right, you know, so and we’re both interested for a second and then it goes away.

Like, that’s no one’s suffering to me.

It’s happiness versus suffering.

Always right?


You don’t.

But do you think there was any point where so you went to this, this Catholic school and your mom’s conservative?

Yeah, and then you went away to NYU.

Yeah, and do you feel at all like When you were at NYU, you were like, I’m gonna shutting Mirabelle.


No, it wasn’t a rebellion.

So much as a blossoming.

Because when I was in school, the sort of Baseline of what you’re taught, is there is good and there is evil and I just don’t believe that anymore.

And when I went to New York, you know, you’re taught all these things in a small town at a parochial school, about Good and Evil and people that do drugs are bad.


And this is bad.

That is bad in.

This is what’s good people.

Yeah, they were high on the list back then bedtime and then I went to New York.

Work, and all I met were these, like, a drug taken?

Queer, lovely, gay musical theater, boys, and I was like, oh, well, here’s my answer.


It comes from life experience.

It doesn’t come from whatever.

Religion teacher told me was good or bad.

It comes from me seeing these like, lovely individuals that sometimes dress up like women or love Broadway shows or whatever.

The, you know, my all my gay friends were into I was like, oh, this is happiness and when there’s happiness, I don’t run from it.


So I was like great, these people are Lovely, it’s all smoke weed.

I’m going to try a little.

Yeah, well, which was weird because they didn’t even smoke weed.

But other friends, I had in college who were super happy and balanced and lovely.

They weren’t like ending up in the gutter.


And they were like, we just have weed in.

This might be fun and we’re in college, and I was like great, well and that.


Yeah, so maybe that’s a little bit of the key.

Now that I think about it is the difference between you and I experimenting with drugs, which is, I would straight to the gutter.

Well, I would imagine that you knew people who did stuff and they their whole thing was a Only you and you thought, oh, I’ll try that.


Because I like that person.

I trust that person.

Whereas I was like, you know, reading Bukowski or whatever.

I was reading going or, you know, on the road and they’re talking about drugs and I’m thinking, oh my God, I want to experience that.

I’m not.

And I didn’t have like, I didn’t like you.


You were cliche in the fact that you like every other boy, read on the road and decided to live in your car for a year.

Like that was like super important.

Well, I don’t think many boys went and lived in their cars, but I did and I feel very proud of that.


And I would not feel proud of that because I don’t want to.

I’m not gonna want to drop out of, I don’t know.


I don’t and not because of a piece of literature like I’m writing my the book of my life and I want to do it by Discovery.

Well, you’re mimicking Disney characters and I was mimicking.

Some authors.

I thought were really cool.


Yeah, but then, you know, you come to find out.


It’s probably better on the page than it is waking up at, you know, 5:00 in the afternoon Lake Erie County, cop and telling them that the Walmart parking lot even parking for today.


I never came to in a Walmart parking lot.

Unfortunately, that’s one story that’s still out there for me stone.


If you never came to I’m gonna put he never came to in a Walmart parking lot.

So another thing about you that I find very admirable, is that you are able to root on your friends who happen to also be competitors of yours in the most, you know.


Basic Dynamic that we are actors.

And we audition for parts and we have a lot of friends who are also actors.

And they audition for sometimes those same parts and you are, it’s amazing.

You’ve, I’ve witnessed you lose rolls to friends or, you know, and you’re able to just be very happy for them and cheer them on, and I think that’s incredible.


It’s happiness versus suffering.

So I would be sad if I lose a roll.

To everybody else, Emily if I lose World Emily Blunt.

Yeah, which is happened.

Numerous times before.

And by the way, I’m not saying it.

Like, it was between me and Emily.


Yeah, I read both.

We’re after the same thing.


Along with a hundred other girls in Hollywood and they chose Emily rightfully.

So, because she’s a spectacular actress.

Mmm, to me.

It’s happiest, happiness versus suffering.

I might feel sad because I didn’t book it, but Emily feels happiness, and she’s going to do a great job and that movie is going to be great.




Because she’s in it because she’s spectacular.

It’s just happiness versus suffering to me because I kind of weirdly live by what I’ve discovered to be the Buddhist way of life, which is that, you know, when somebody’s about to get hit by a bus, you don’t push them out of the way because you’re helping someone else.


You push them out of the way because that person is you we’re all sort of intertwined.

And yeah, someone else gets the roll and I love that person, then great.

But to me that feels a little bit like Acting a certain way and then trying to explain it later or after the fact.

So then you attach some principles to it.


Like oh I believe in this or I believe not but I’m saying I didn’t know that was the Buddhist way and then when I heard it, I was like, oh that’s kind of what I feel.

Right, but I would argue that your largely not in control of your emotions and that you don’t you just don’t have those emotions in the reason.


I think you don’t have those emotions is you have incredibly High self-esteem.

I think that’s really the The base for why you’re able to doesn’t.

When someone when Emily block gets that role you go.

She she’s great and she’ll be great in it.


And that’s great.

You don’t go.

It doesn’t make you feel less than you don’t go.

I’m a piece of shit because she’s great.


Which is wonderful and it’s so healthy.

She doesn’t have that effect over me.

She doesn’t have anything to do with me.


If I’m a piece of shit.


I’m a piece of shit because I’m a piece of shit.

I agree.

Nothing to do with Emily Blunt.

I’ve just been Year on the that my whole life, right?

But in you, I know from all the stories from your childhood, you seem to have had pretty high self-esteem, most of your life.

You didn’t find yourself in situations where you’re being taken advantage of.


And you were not a victim very often and I, I believe personally that, you know, we think that we get self-esteem by accomplishing things like, oh, I’ll graduate from UCLA.

That’ll make me feel good about myself.

Or I’ll be on TV.


That’ll make me feel.

Good about myself or I’ll date this person and then that’ll make me feel good about myself.

But in my experience, none of those things ever made me feel good about myself.

Things that made me feel good.

Our esteem mobile acts.

Self-esteem is doing a steam mobile acts and you actually buy your own judge you feel good about who you are.


And so I think that you, you know, I’ve only over the last 13 years been given an opportunity to like help a lot of dudes.

Sober, that gives me self-esteem.

Exercise gives me self-esteem.

So you have a ton of self-esteem, which is very attractive.


And I think it’s from doing a steam ablack.

So what are the things you do that?

Give you that self-esteem.

I seek a lot of things out sometimes to my detriment.

I mean, everyone’s on a learning curve.

Sometimes I sign up for more than I can swallow.


I work for a lot of different charities.

Mmm, when some you all.

As have, right?

I always have and that’s because I think everyone is doing the best they can with what they’ve got.

And so when different people reach out to me, like Gift of Life, which is a bone marrow registry.


Of course, I’ll do your PSAs.

That’s wonderful.

I I know, a friend of a friend who needed that service and like being an ambassador for baby to baby or for an ambassador for no kid hungry.

Those are all worthwhile things.

I think that you went to Brazil as a teenager and volunteer and help deliver babies.


I did I helping other people because I see I’m an empath, and I see myself and everyone else, and I can sometimes feel what they’re feeling and I would want someone to help me.

It’s as simple as that, I think this life, but it is, it’s counterintuitive.


It’s counterintuitive to think that you will end up getting everything you want in life by being very selfless, and being very up service to other people.

That’s not, that’s the most intuitive.

Thing I could possibly, yeah, not to me.


My thing is like, oh, you have to bend, everyone’s will around you to your will to get what you want.

That’s so backwards.

It’s the only way you get it.

Karma is not bullshit.

Like, you can call it Juju or whatever you want.

But like the energy to the world that’s real life, you know, and I think if you walk into situations with an open heart and someone says like, oh I’m stressed and you ask them questions about it or oh I have to move and you say I’m not doing anything on Saturday.


Do you need any help?

You’re not saying it because you’re trying to like get points in the afterlife or or make your life better.

You’re doing it because you can also look at it.

Like, oh, I can spend the day with this person and make their life a little bit easier.


And out of that.

I get self-esteem, which makes me feel great, like, you know, like working for path, which, you know, we also rescue dogs.



Rescue every single sharing things and I don’t think that the there is a recipe for self-esteem.

I think it varies for everyone, right?

So you have your laundry list of things.

Is that you value and then you go out of your way and spend time to, to do that.


I have a different list.

Everyone’s got a different list and I think it’s it’s important to recognize the things you think are important and that are admirable.

And then put some effort into doing those things because it leads to confidence, it leads to loving yourself.


Yeah, you can’t really.

And it’s all it also breeds humility and sort of a humble.

Perspective in that.

Look, I don’t deserve this.

I don’t deserve to be one of the only people who doesn’t have to worry about their bills and gets to feel beautiful when she gets her makeup done.


Like I don’t deserve that, but I have been put in a position where I was given opportunities and I was born kind of cute and I can read a room really well and act appropriately in social situations and those things have led me to get great results out of my life.


Life and I think that that should be spread around, I am, I mean, I am a secret socialist, like I want I want to share things and I don’t really think it’s fair that I make as much money as I do.

And I want to sort of spread that around they should make more.

I don’t, I don’t like seeing suffering.


You know, what?

It is part of it is that I just have a really hard time with suffering in any way that, you know, that’s like when we do the path movements, which is another place.

I helped with people, assisting the homeless like I My friends, and I gathered my group of friends to move transitionally, homeless families into Apartments, because that’s what I should be doing with my time.


Yeah, and I applaud all that stuff, but I do think I do think everyone selfish.

I think everything selfishly motivated, but I think you can be.




Look how happy I am.


I guess I’m just saying if if I were young an hour listening to you.


I wonder if I would Feel daunted or overwhelmed by the notion that you have to have this desire to do something selfless because you either have it or you don’t.

But I do, I’m trying to put a spin on it that says, you know, it’s actually selfish in a great way to be of service to other people because it ends up making you feel away that you can be your best.



I don’t think that your spin is correct.

I think everyone should be of service more.

And if everyone was of service more, we would live in a lot.

Our world.

I think people need to get over themselves.

I think like you don’t need to have that many mirrors in your house.

You need to start thinking about other people and that’s just that always the place that I’ve that’s always the lane I’ve driven in and it yields.


Excellent results for me.

Because at the end of those days, I feel awesome.

I feel really, really helpful and that self-esteem.


Well, you value yourself in a very healthy way, in which means you put up with less stuff as well throughout your Life, exactly.

I put I don’t put up with bull shit.


I’m not a victim.

But I also I want to leave the Earth better than I found it.

Mmm, but I do think when people, I think there’s and we’ve observed this with tons of our friends who date and you see as they get a little happier or a little healthier, or a little more confident than the people that they date, they seem to be you seem to match self-esteem with your partner.



So two people who feel terrible about themselves.

Well think they deserve each other and they Minutes is riddled with all these things.

But you seem to match, you know, whatever your own self-esteem levels at.

Yeah, don’t you think?


Because you have Excellence at well, you have very good self-esteem.


But then you also have a ton of insecurities.

I mean I had to I’m very prone to self loathing for sure.


So one of the, the only the only professional downside that I’ve observed is in the past and I think your way Better at this now and I think it’s very clear to, you know, exactly what you are.


Not as I was going to say.

Oh, I was going to say there have been times over the last 10 years where you wanted to be everything.

Yeah, you know, we would were lucky enough to know Tina Fey, and Amy Poehler.


And when we’ve hung out with them afterwards, you felt like, fuck.

I need to be as funny as those two like, right?

I need to and then there are Roles in movies you’ve wanted that are deeply dramatic.

The person that’s going to play that role probably really was in a terrible car accident or raped at three dozen times.


You know, you’ve also wanted to play those super dark people or the Sean Penn roles.

Yeah, and how is it that over the years, you have kind of gotten more comfortable being exactly who you are.


It’s because by my estimation, you have like, to me what makes someone unique or what makes them appealing is that they have a unique recipe of funny dramatic.

Interesting sparkly, whatever it is.

And it’s that unique combination of those that makes that person appealing and often you can be trying to, you know, accentuate, some other aspect of yourself more than you naturally are vice versa.


And to me, it seems like you found a perfect Lane that you’re in now.

Which is your just, you, you are funny, you’re a great dramatic actor.

You are a great singer.

You are not the best singer.

You’re not the best dramatic.


You are one of the best female comedians, you know, like, well, I feel lucky to be here.


You know what it is.

Its ease of life.

I’m looking for the easiest Lane.

I’m not here to suffer.


I’m just not.

And so, yes, if I spend my time.

After having hung out with the brilliant and lovely, Tina and Amy.


If I spend my time talking to myself about how I’m not funny, as funny as they are, and I never will be.

And how can I be as funny as they are?

Its misery.

It’s well, that’s something you.

And I talked about a ton which is want that comparing yourself to people that I don’t want a comparison hangover.


You get comparison hangovers every lip gloss in my drawer is fine until I see Monica’s lip gloss and then I want that one.

It’s all comparison.

It’s useless.

It’s a waste of fucking time.

Yeah, it doesn’t really matter what you’ve done or accomplished in your life.

You will definitely be able to find someone who’s much better.


Whatever thing you’re trying to have, you know, living in a group.

That’s too big.

We’re supposed to be living in groups of a hundred and fifteen where somebody is the best at everything.

Someone’s the best bike rider.

Someone’s the best Baker, and now we live in the age of social media, where you truly see, the best of the best in everyone feels less than I just don’t have time for it.


Part of it is because I’ve had kids, and I realized that I can get self-esteem and a ton of other ways being a Good mom or being why for getting the right Garland, which I still need to do.

By the way, Michael is my to go to Michael’s for the house.

But either way, this piece was brought to you by Michaels.

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But if it’s that, I just don’t have time.

I don’t have time to suffer, right?

I just don’t, I want to choose the easiest Lane.

I want to choose things that make me feel good.

So, thinking about how I’m less than doesn’t make me feel good, right?

Doing a move in for a homeless family.

That’s moving out of a shelter.


Makes me feel good.

Well, also for me, if I’m comparing myself to other people, I almost every time feel worse.

But if I compare myself to a previous version of myself, I feel really fucking good.


Yeah, and I think you’ve since I’ve known you, you’ve gotten incrementally better every single year.


I’ve known you.

Well, that’s despite what you said about your boobs.

Post kid large in part to do with the things that you’ve taught me about self-improvement.

And the things that like, we’ve learned in therapy, but it really even From what we’ve learned in therapy and more and what you’ve taught me about self-improvement and a fierce moral inventory and really like a, a training.


Yeah, like I think everyone should go to AA, really AA.

Should be the most required.

It’s, you could be taught in first grade.

We act like it’s treating alcoholism, but it’s actually treating treating the.


It’s treating The Human Condition and it’s so helpful to go through those steps.


You are so much happier when you come out the other end.

Yeah, and so you just brought up something that we’re both really fascinated and which Which is yes, so throughout time Homo sapiens and been here for you know, a hundred and seventy-five thousand years and for 95% of that we were living in groups of two hundred members.


So you were going to be the best at something, you know, it might not have been a something spectacular but you were going to be the fastest runner or the person that’s lease afraid to jump off something tall and there’s all these different ways that you could be exceptional.


But now you’re on Facebook and There are two billion people and not only are there two billion people but the version you’re seeing of their life is curated.

So you’re seeing them when they jumped off the waterfall in Hawaii.

You’re seeing them get married.

You’re seeing them, you know win a prize or whatever it is or perfectly shot on a beach where they didn’t have roles in that photo.


So now you’re comparing yourself to too hot to billion people at the best moments of their life and there is Is now pandemic levels of anxiety and depression among young people right now.

Do you think we add to that problem?

You and I Oh, wow, I certainly hope not.


Although this does border a little bit on the idea that Not that you can’t help everyone.

But if someone is choosing to compare themselves everywhere around every corner, I’m not not allowed to have pretty pictures on my Instagram.



So, but I but what I will say is I particularly with social media, try to do a good job of enjoy yourself, putting boob tape on and shit like that.

Yes, because well a because I think every woman should know and be because, you know, I think people should know what people look like without makeup and You know, on perfected and know that I have, you know, whatever the problem is.


I have like 30 or 40 people that get you ready for these red carpets.

Yeah, 100%, They’re spraying nothing.

Yeah, it’s a lot of work.

Those out and hair which is there’s a whole, I think I certainly hope we don’t add to it.

I try to be real.

Well, I think we can get, I think you and I are often try to balance being honest, about how much work this relationship requires, a lot of work.


It’s It’s so, you know, that we’ve gone to couples therapy or that, you know, you know, what we do to try to, you know, daily stay together.

We’re very kind of honest about that, and I do wonder sometimes if people like, oh, shut up, we get it.


You fucking are in a normal relationship.

But here’s where you and I differ, and here’s where your lower self-esteem is coming in.

I don’t care if anyone’s saying shut up.

Oh, yeah, you know what?

I mean?


I know in my heart, the right thing I am.

Always has.

Yeah, I am always anticipating.


What burn someone?

Well, I’m yeah, I think again because of going to the special ed room or being from a broken family, in a neighborhood.

That was mostly make whatever it is.

I am always trying to anticipate.

Yeah, what shitty thing, someone’s going to say to me and have a retort.


I don’t think that’s like, hardwired if you don’t like what I’m posting, no one’s requiring.

You to follow me.

You’re not legally obligated to follow me.

I’m posting things.

I think that will make people smile Jace.

Bateman always says, there’s nothing funny about perfection, and I think a great way to attack.


That’s the way I sort of attack social media because social media, in my mind, it’s, you know, it can sort of so negative and sometimes it’s about, you know, politics.

But ultimately, I think it should be something that makes people smile, not that gives them a comparison hangover.

And I don’t think there’s anything funny about perfection.


So whenever I do post something, I tried to make it as real as possible, and even if it is, you know, something that seems bragi I try to Bring it down a notch or yeah, you also deal with like, people’s negative comments on Twitter, better than I do just in general you, because those tend to really upset me.


It does.

I know, I miss of mine.

I see you on the couch.

When you’re done that much better.

I just don’t, well.

Yeah, I’d like to engage in debate now and then you go into the bedroom.

People have never even met.


I have no idea if they’re the crazy guy in front of 711 with a fucking parrot on his shoulder.

I treat that person, as if we are on stage at Rice hall at UCLA debating, but here’s the thing.


If somebody says to me, A nasty.

It says every it says nothing about you and everything about them.

I agree with you and when I’m in a healthy state of mind, I agree with you a hundred percent, but to this point, I think you and I try to tell people that if you think you’re going to be at the grocery store in meet somebody and that person is going to be perfect for you and then you’re going to be able to put it in neutral and just Coast on into your retirement.



It’s fucking nuts, right?

Because something that I see a lot.

When I’m reading Twitter replies is like, I just need to find my Kristen Bell or I just need to find my Dax and I just want to let everyone know that we had a long road.


Before we were found contentment.

When you agree think you’re not looking at it from every angle, those simple replies.

I think.

Are, you know, sometimes women sometimes, men mostly women, probably saying it’s possible.


I think the fact that We lead with how difficult it is and how much work it takes.

Is the honest way to do it.

And I think we’re not we’re not giving misinformation.

We’re not saying look how easy this is and then they respond with.

I need to find my Dax Shepard or Kristen Bell.


Break is when we met it was not a ThunderBolt from either of us, right?

We were, but we were at a dinner party and we basically, I had just broken up with somebody.

So I was not an in, any state of mind to be on looking for a Suitor.

You didn’t know who I was, I didn’t know who you were.

I just wanted you.


Talked so much.

Yeah, you told a really cute story about shopping at Target and I thought, oh, that’s great.

This gal is like a movie star and she shops at Target super pumped at like, the forty percent off discount.

And I found that appealing, but I think you’re under estimating, you’re acting like, we’re giving people a comparison hangover and I think maybe we’re just giving people.


Hope like, well, no, I’m, I’m not acting like we’re giving people that I’m bringing up why we are always leading.

Being with that.

Oh, okay.

Well because you saw I think we do a good job of saying is it a problem when people say are we part of the problem think?


So because we’re leading with all the imperfections were being honest.

And I think look a lot of good change comes from people having hope in dark times.

You want to see hope you don’t meet well.

That’s what I personally rest.

Arthas like, oh, you know what fairy tales exist for a reason, myths exist for a reason.


Yeah, it’s fine that there’s a fairy tale or a myth that people believe in.

Warms their soul.

And the idea that you can find someone who desires self, mm, self-improvement, and communication, and betterment, and a life alongside you.


And that, that commitment is possible because around every corner people don’t do enough self-improvement right life in general and was very hard to change.

You have to have something generally quite life-threatening before yield change, right?

And yeah.

I didn’t though.


I guess my life threatening thing would be like, when I met you.

I wasn’t nearly as healthy in the, the life-threatening thing would be.

Would I lose you, you know, if I didn’t change, if I didn’t become less jealous and more flexible, and I just think giving people hope, I think there’s being a sort of, shiny light of saying, like this is possible, and it comes as to come from both sides.


You have to know your self-esteem and meet someone that deserves you.

I think all those things are good things to pump out into the world.

Yeah, and I do think Um, what you had when we met that, I believed pretty quickly was, you are at your core, very good person.


Like I can trust you because there were all these moments when we were first dating, right?

That you because your family, my family are so different.

Like, when I’d asked you to get me water.


That’s so my, you know, I grew up with a single mother, single mother working Midnight’s as a janitor with three kids.


Want a baby, want a teenager.

And not making enough money.

So the way you showed each other that you loved one, another was to not be a fucking drag on them to be self-sufficient and not pull at the already decimated resources, right?


So in my family being needy is basically like, saying, I don’t love you or don’t value what you’re going through.

So we would be early on, we would be dating and we’d both be sitting on the couch and you would say, can you get me a glass of water?

Yeah, and I thought that was Needy, let’s label that, as I was look at, you know, I, you know, I’m time saying what my family was like.


And then yeah, when we would be on the couch and you’d asked me to go get you a glass of water.

I was interpreting like, oh she doesn’t value at all my you know what?

Things I’m already dealing with and this is and I was afraid that if I got up and got you a glass of water.


I was establishing a pattern and that for the rest of my life.

You would just sit on the couch and never get your own water, and I would get it for you.

Until I realized that you were a good person, like, I believe you are a good person and it allowed me to stop questioning your intentions or what patterns we were going to fall into and and then I now I do eat a lot of ice water, and I think you weren’t seeing like, sometimes guys don’t know.


When their eyes Dart down at boobs.

The thing you weren’t seeing at that time and I you see it now, is there were just as many times where we were.

Hang on the couch and simply because I was excited about the fact that you were my boyfriend and I like to nurture.

I’d look over at you and I’d say, can I get you anything?


Oh, yeah, and you would always say no, right?

But I was I couldn’t bear to be needy and I would say are you sure?

And sometimes still get up and go to the kitchen and get us, both a glass of water or whatever it was.

But I wanted to establish a relationship of nurturing and not dependency, but depending on each other, to be the comfort zone, where everything is, okay.


So super healthy and I agree that it was, that is how you should be.

But that but that again, that’s where like an objective will know what I was hearing was, I don’t love you.

Yeah, that is the see that in my family would equal.


I don’t love you.

You would never ask someone to do something for you that you could do for yourself.

So I and this is where like an objective outside therapist helps because Harry could listen to us talk and he can go.

Oh, I know exactly what’s happening.

Your he’s hearing this in your hearing back.


Mine is the polar opposite because in my family, doing things for someone else, is how you show them, you love them tires.

Also, if you’re taking up 90% of the relationship, you’re only leaving the other person, 10%, so give the opportunity to the other person to nurture you and let because you get self-esteem from taking care of something.


That’s what?

Husbands get.

It wives, get it.

Parents get it towards kids, kids, get it towards animals when you’re taking care of something.

You feel good about yourself.

So I would offer to take care of you.

Can I get you anything?

And I would be denying you, right?

You were denied like when I try to buy my mom dinner, and she doesn’t want me to, because she’s the mom.


And I tell her, you’re denying me this great pleasure of being able to spoil you now, since you spoiled me, my whole lot, right?

And when I was asking you for me, when she heard that, then she could get on.

Board, right?

You have to explain it.

And when I was asking you for water, I was giving you the opportunity to provide and protect for me.


Even if it was just with a glass of water.

Yeah, you had always always dying to protect you.

I know.

But I want you to protect me the way you want.

I don’t want you to punch anyone.

I want to fight like 10 guys, and I’ve been in the car when you jumped out of the car.

When someone is hurled a Big Gulp at our windshield on Sunset Boulevard and you pulled the emergency brake and got out and kick the shit out of him.


And I don’t like that guy.

You didn’t get horny when I did.

No, I did not.

See, I would, I would say that that was a moment where you grew towards me, which I always appreciated, which is here’s a situation that makes you very uncomfortable.


Me beating a guy up on the sidewalk.

And when I got back in the car, I knew I was in very, big trouble, huh?

And you assess that the last thing I needed at that moment was to hear more bad shit and to be told I was not a good boy.


Are you?

Yeah, and we got to a restaurant, and I had what we thought, maybe for II.

Thought we thought we broke my leg from kicking the person.


And you got up to go to the bathroom or so.

I thought, and you had gone into the back of the restaurant and had them make a big bag ice and you came back to the table and you just slid it under the table and I put it on my leg and I just thought that was so generous of you because I’m sure you wanted to go.


Listen, man.

I don’t want to be in fights on the side of the road.

That’s not what life is.

I’m trying to live in Michigan for a reason.



So, let’s see.

I just thought that was very big of you.

Remember when I was shaded it.

Well, you’re welcome.

I was growing towards you.


I was doing that because I loved you and I knew you didn’t need to hear that secretly.

It was also the stronger move.

Yeah, it was, it was it was a check ball or move?

No, I’m not going to say anything.

You’re going to know how I’m seething.

Yeah, but then I did but then I’m also going to do.


So, going to get you a glass of water.

I’m inclined to know off the couch and get you a glass of water.

You need something.

I’m going to take an active step to show you how I love you without embarrassment or humiliation.

And I’m going to do something for you to show how I provide and protect and nurture you which is I’m going to get out of the get up from the table and say I need to go to the restroom secretly come back with a bag of ice, not tell anyone else at the table and slide it to you because I want to meet your needs.



It was very appreciative.

And this is my whole point about how I look at life.


Look at what I got out of that.

I got maybe one of the most formidable moments of when you fell in love with me.

And I now have your undying trust because, you know, I protect you I earned that and I earned that by being actively good to you.


Yeah, not my demanding in spite of me about my day like Elvis in spite of me, having done something that would normally want.

You can get all the things you want in life by being actively good to another person.

That’s where my perspective comes from, you.

I didn’t well in in knowing me, had you started, you know, picking apart, why that was not the right thing to do.


I would have just gotten defensive and explained why that type of behavior is required or you killed.

I look at every problem from the solution backwards.

I don’t do it perfectly every time, but I try to look at it from the solution backwards.

Another nice thing you really did that I want to bring up because it just reminded me of it is when my father was dying.


Dying in 2012.

I was going back to Michigan a lot.

And obviously you couldn’t come with me because you were working and I was working and so I was just getting enough time to be doing that.

And so I was back just before Christmas and I was having a very hard time with it harder than I was anticipating and there were so many people in the hospital room friends of his and I didn’t feel like I was getting the time with him one-on-one that I wanted to.


Or they would start crying about his condition and then I’d be left to comfort them.

And I was so mad that I was spending my time with my dad comforting strangers, and it was weighing on me a ton.

So I left and I went and built a wheelchair ramp in front of his house so that I could take him home and you had talked to me the night before and then I built a wheelchair ramp.


I came back to the hospital and I called you and I said I’m going to go back into the hospital room, and I’m just so bummed.

All these people on there and I just want time with him and I was pretty emotional.

You were saying, you didn’t think you could handle it.

Yeah, and then someone knocked on my window in my car and I turned to my left and looked and it was you you were standing there on the phone.


I thought I was talking to you in LA, but you would secretly flown home.

And you knew where the hospital was and you surprised me because we’re now is really nice.

Well, you’re welcome.

But when I spoke to you the night before, again, I’m an empath.

I can tell what’s happening in your voice.


I could I also knew you.

Got you were acting very.

Sexy sexy wasn’t the word.

I was going to say, you, were, you were acting very nonchalant about the fact that your father was dying and I didn’t say anything, but I could obviously see that.


That was a misrepresentation of what what the emotions that were actually in there.

Yeah, and I so I was monitoring that closely from a distance closely from a distance, right?

Right up close and personal from against from very, very far away.


And I don’t you didn’t say anything in particular other than I just could sense it.

I just could sense that you needed me.

Like, you know, like you needed me to get you ice without telling anyone.

I just could sense it.

And so I just booked a flight and flew on a Friday night.


I’m in my highlight was, we went in together and you were very pregnant.

You’re like 7 months, pregnant, and then my dad who wasn’t talking at that point right here, and he just felt your belly for about an hour.

He was very attracted to you too.

Oh, I know.


Yeah, he made that clear.


When we first started dating Kristen.

Home to Michigan and thought I’ll be nice and in an attempt to impress tax.

As I do often.

I said I’m going to get to know his family while I’m here.

So that I and again, I’m going to do something that seems selfless so that it will feel selfish because I gained something.


I’m going to get to know his dad.

I’m going to come home and be like, I spend time with your dad and he’s going to look at me.


And that was my plan.

And your dad.

I made a date with your dad, to take me out to some disgusting chain restaurant.

And and one of the first things He said, he, I was getting into his car, which was like, full of old water bottles.


And one of the first things he said to me was, oh, I gotta show you this x-ray.

Look at my hip and he pulled out these x-rays from the back stairs.

All back seat was full of x-rays, X-rays and water bottle, and then we do a chain restaurant.


And we talked about you, and I politely watched him skewer the waiter about everything, because he hates waiters and everything.

Waiters you are wrong.

And so, There is no level of service that met his standards besting.

The daily special was like, pushing something on him in a way that he liked making him.


Choose a different career path or something.

Sure, to spend the cottage.

She don’t want the Cod threatening his identity.

Yes, so I then went home and he dropped me off and I remember like an hour later.

I got a text that said, pick you up again tomorrow.

Wait, who’s making a second day?



He had to go out with him twice.


And a very short trip home.

You really monopolize your time.

Yeah, he was like, yeah, he was very attracted to you.

I think only in the way of competent, he only way of competing with you.

The other funny thing about that was is the beginning of when I was going back home.


You were just barely pregnant.

Like you weren’t showing and we were trying to keep it very secret.

We want anyone to know, right?

And I told him, and I said, you know, I’m going to tell you this, but you can’t tell anyone.

Okay, and, and then later, he was in the hospital and as I was walking down the hallway.


Semen is room.

I passed three different nurses that were like.


I heard your wife.

Kristen Bell is brightness.

Yeah, he was not trustworthy.

Know you could not trust him at all of the secret.


Yeah, that’s all right.

He had other qualities.


Did everybody everybody’s got their stuff.

You know.


Now let’s talk about the word worst thing that I did not intend and talking to you about this, but I’m the worst thing.

I think I ever did in your presence.

Actually, what it is.

Yeah, so We have a long-standing issue with leaving the house on time.


I think it’s a very male female normal thing.

I’m not good at it.

I’m admittedly not good at.

I’m attending.

I’m neurotic about being on time or early to places yet to a fault.

That’s a waste in your late to a fault.

So this is a recipe for disaster and it always rears its ugly head.


Particularly, when we go to the movies because I like to get there with plenty of time to get that popcorn and get my soda and I don’t see the point of my day when I have to get to him.

The theater 25 minutes in advance and sisters in a light theater, especially since even during that 25 minutes when I have like just patronising you.


And then like fine.

We’ll get there, whatever time you want and like, you won’t let me go out and look at the movie posters because you’re like it’s about normally or late, too.

Probably more often have this conversation with you just heard that story.

So we were this was one of our worst times of leaving the house.


I was very pissed by the time we pulled out of the driveway and I was driving.

We were going to see, Never Say Never the Justin.

It was seeing it for the second time because I enjoyed it so much.

Yes, and I was driving, you know, even faster than normal to get there because I was afraid we were going to be late and I came flying her on this corner at Argyle and Something in Hollywood and it’s kind of a gentle, right turn.


I think it’s probably a 15, mile an hour turn.

Yeah, and yucca, and I went through that turn at about 50 miles an hour and there was a huge group of pigeons in the road and in my life experience up to that point.

You can’t hit a pigeon.


Even if you wanted to hit a pigeon.

You can’t hit them.

They always get out of the way of your car.

And in this on this occasion, they did not get out of the way and you Hit upwards of horny.

Was like, it was the worst at the windshield.


Oh my God, even saying it now I feel even worse than I did then it was it was brutal.

It was it was a terrible, terrible thing.

I lost my brother and we were already fighting.

So when that happened, I knew this is over like she may leave me over this.


It was it was bad.

It was really rough.

We got, you’re not exaggerating in that it sounded like running over like a long line of cones or something.

Yeah, for sure.

And we got to the movie theater and we were meeting friends.

There who had kids and we sat down, I wasn’t speaking.



You’re not gonna talk to ride through the first third of Never Say Never.

Yeah, and I apologized like a hundred times.

I don’t want to speak to you right now.

That’s right.

And my one works is more story about the power of that movie.

She right?


Because we were by the end of that movie.

We were laughing and crying and cheering about Bieber.

It really pulled us out of it.

That’s true.

Well, the what my one regret is that I thought about right after we did it making you get out and check for signs of life and I didn’t do that and I’m very regretful even to this day because thinking one of those pigeons could have suffered against happiness versus suffering because of something that We did collectively we did.



I was 10 minutes.


I wasn’t there. 25 minutes in advance to the ArcLight theater, but you were speeding.

And I’m like a fucking crazy person to try to get to the theater, which I did not think was an okay expectation to have.

It was an uncalled for speed, for sure.


Yes, and then we got iced.

I was so stunned.

As to what had just occurred in my life that I didn’t have the wherewithal and this is I very, very few moments.

Do I regret where I didn’t have the wherewithal?

The like find my mom?

Oxy and say what I meant and what I wanted but right after the documentary, which was healed us a bit.


We are at least on speaking terms the movie ended will because I realized I wasn’t going to leave you over this.

But what I was going to do is tell you we will drive which I did, we are going to drive past and make sure none of them need to be put out of their misery.

And if they are you are going to get out of the car and you are going to do it with your bare hands.


Yes, because if you’re going to kill them in the car, you should be able to kill them with your bare hand.

We should have eaten.

I’m really your responsibility.

And we drove past and thankfully none of them.

But just when I thought in the road, yeah, and just when I thought, oh, thank God, this movie kind of got us back to talking.


You said, we need to go back now and I was like, oh, geez you’re going back to the scene of the crime and I relived you’re going to either perform CPR or you’re going to break their necks, right.

And that is going to be what something that you’re going to have to deal with.

Yes, and then we went back and there were a few dead birds and and luckily, none of them were suffering.


I didn’t have to do anything morbid as it turns out.

That was rough.


Yeah, but again you in light of that I did the probably the worst thing I could do by your standards, as I murdered some innocent animals, which is a big No-No.


You’re an animal lover.

I’ve grown into one.

I felt terrible to, but I was too worried that my relationship was over.

I think to truly mourn, the birds, and the way they deserve.

But again, I was grateful the way you handled that.

It could have gone a much different way.




Well, you could feel how sincere I was that I felt really really terrible.

Not that right.


Well and I also a my head went like well, he didn’t hit a kid, this will serve as a learning lesson that yes, I can try to be more on time.

But you cannot freak out and panic.


Like if we’re late for, you know, I don’t even know what would be an event that we’d have to freak out that much like a, well, there really isn’t one.

Uh is there isn’t but now that but that’s one that deserves that driving through a group of birds.

No, but that does, I’m not trying to make that as an excuse for, like I can be late for anything.


But even if it was really important, it’s still can’t deserve that amount of crazy behavior.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, and I knew that that was the I didn’t need to teach you any of that lesson.

That lesson was learned by those steps Emily.

I knew as I got back in the car after being that guy up, that that was that was not the right move from that it was.


And the great thing is You put me through such a severe situation that I went.

Oh, this is never going to happen again in my relationship.

So if I can handle this will again because as we are seeing early, you do at the end of the day, trust that I am a good person.


Michael very much.


Well, we didn’t say that.

You just said that out of the blue just now, yo, I said the reason I was wait, what I’ve been saying about you.

Yes, yes.




I also believe that you are a very good person at your core and your also a person who Maybe more than anyone I’ve ever met learns from your mistakes and learns from your experiences.


So I actually knew that like, oh, I’ll never have to have this fight.


We’ll never talk about whether or not beating someone up is okay.

Like this?

It, I don’t know.

It just, it felt like something had been put to bed and we had gotten over something together.

Why not?

Like that.


You’ve actually on a couple different occasions.

Have said, I could beat someone up, which I also appreciated.

There’s been a one or two occasions where you thought it was okay, which made me feel Because I think I thought, oh, well, she’s rational about this.

Like, there may be a situation where I am knock someone out.

Well, the dude, I caught, taking upskirt, picture LAX, the other day, and then I confronted him.


Yeah, Delhi Ex-Lax is personal Sheriff.


Yeah, I wouldn’t have minded, you were fine with that amount, right like that.

I think it’s well, documented that you’re a bleeding-heart liberal, and I’m pretty close to a bleeding heart liberal, but one thing I find, And unique in your perspective and I really appreciate is you are able to see both sides and try to find the Middle Lane.


And a lot of these situations.

You’re not afraid to Buck the party line.


And I do think something that’s weird about where we’re at.

Today, is everyone’s trying to evaluate what the impact of social media is.

And all this technology is.


And and the thing that I think is happening.

That’s That’s weird, is computers.

Run on binary opposition.

A 1 or 0.

That’s how they function.

So there’s only two options and I feel like somehow that is invaded ourselves.


We’re now humans more than ever are.

Everything’s binary your left or your right, your conservative, or you’re a liberal, you’re good, or you’re evil, and I think that you have a very Healthy view on that, people are both good and evil and that there’s you don’t need to be.


You know, broadly saying, well, this person is perfect and I Revere them and I will defend them against anything or this person’s just evil.

Well, I think that that comes from shedding the skin that I grew up with which is people who do drugs are bad, people who are gay, are sinners, whatever it is and then Realizing happiness is everywhere and really the only two things you need to focus on is happiness and suffering.


It’s not good and evil, it’s not black and white.

It’s not red or blue.

It’s happiness, and suffering period.

And I also think that, you know, in the one thing that I like to talk about in the age of social media is just like, is clickbait, is, is the lack of nuance in any conversation, because the Congress on taxes.




The context, the Nuance, the the details.

They’re very important.

To a story.

It’s like, you know, you could say, hey, see this movie.

It’s about XYZ and you go.

I’m not really interested in that.

And then you see it.

You see two hours of context, you see, two hours of the Nuance of the movie and then you’re like, that’s the best movie I’ve ever seen.


Yeah, the story of the best movies ever made have the worst one line.


Nation story surrounding something is vital.

It is the existence of said things.

So I think in every conversation we’re having publicly right now, like, you know your net politically, you’re never going to find a politician with a perfect voting record and Why?


Because we’re human beings, we are all apes and at five years ago.

When that person voted on the wrong side of the line.

It’s because at that point they were probably doing the best they could with what they had.

And the bottom line is, do you trust them?


Do you trust that way back when they were allowed to make a mistake?


I also think we don’t allow each other to make mistakes.


I personally while I think it’s part of that whole curated lifestyle thing, which is like we even have a friend.

We have a friend who’s very, very smart and we both respect a ton.

And he found, I guess, Facebook.


Does these Time Capsule things right?

Where they’ll send you a picture that you took eight years ago or whatever.

And he had gone to a Halloween party dressed as an Indian, from the subcontinent.


Well, it was a cat.

It was a pilgrims and Indians Thanksgiving party.


Yeah, right.

And then so, his clever take on was, oh, he was an Indian from India.


Yeah, and he was mortified by this and he I took it down, right?

He went through his Facebook and got rid of it, which is surely the ethical thing to do, I suppose?


But It did scare me in that know, you’re still a great impressive person with that in your background.

You know, that’s something that’s a decision.

You made seven years ago that at that time felt right.

And now, by today’s standards, it’s probably not, right?


And now we’re going to pretend because it is just pretending that it didn’t happen and it’s not you never getting the full story.

So now you’re evaluating your own life.

Next to these other people’s lives who have been edited well, but I also physically been edited.

There’s a media me.

To what you’re talking about and it is, yes.


I did it.

If ever brought up I could defend it in saying you know what cultural appropriation wasn’t really like a public discussion back then and it felt okay for some reason and I don’t know why it felt.


I just know that my I didn’t have malicious intentions and now I see how it could possibly cause someone to suffer.


And so I pulled it down because I don’t have any intent for anyone to be offended.

So I see we’re actually even pulling it down.

Is okay, but it’s Like that, the hiding all of our mistakes.

Well, yeah, it’s amazing.

It’s like that.

Yeah, that the pressure of oh well, so here’s yet another person who’s not made any mistakes or made a bad judgment call, you know, that’s kind of what I mean.


I’ve made a ton of bad judgment calls, you have to.

And what one thing I love most about you is your willingness to site-specific mistakes to talk about how you’ve evolved.

I’ve done every bad thing.

You can do.

Like, I know, and I Yeah, I just I think we don’t give ourselves and each other enough forgiveness and it because the bottom line is no one’s perfect.


No one’s that one’s got a spotless record.

What things do you do?

Is there anything that any characteristic of yours that is associated with you, either publicly or even in your friendship group that you feel fraudulent about?


Like, do you ever feel like a fraud when you’re lying in bed?

Yeah, how about going?

I am because in my Elder years in the sunset of my life, I’m realizing I’m Rachel’s at Twilight yet more Sunset.

I’m realizing I’m not as outgoing as I think I am.


I enjoy that too.

This is a stupid one, but it’s just the first one that came to my mind.

Like I enjoy coming and cheering everything up, everyone up and being the life of a party and being bubbly.

But I’m realizing I don’t enjoy it past a certain point.

I never really know what that point is, but I’m really recognizing that I’m a 50%, an introvert, and I’m becoming more comfortable with turning down plans saying no to things or even being in my house.


All have depression.

Yeah for sure.

But but that’s not necessarily linked to my depression that actually fixes my depression, right?

My depression comes out more, when I’m trying to be everything for everybody and I’m trying to stay bubbly in the life of the Party in the smiley one because sometimes I just don’t want to be sometimes I want to even when you’re home and we have friends over.


I want to retreat into my room, to read a book and be quiet with myself and I’m realizing in this these Sunset years.

I’m that.

I’m okay with that.

I don’t know.

I what would you say?

I’m fraudulent about because you know me very well.

And you also do a better job of pointing out my flaws.

Then I dunno.

I don’t have it.


I just know, I’m not in the business of telling you your flaws.

I’m just curious.

I mean, there’s a million times where I’ll feel fraudulent.

I think when I see See all those relationship goal hashtags on our thing.

I think.

Oh fuck.


I have to be the perfect partner and I’m not the perfect partner.

And I, you know, do regrettable things wearing different glasses because I actually think the reason that we get those hashtags or whatever it is, is because we’re so honest about and clear about how difficult it is, right?


Because no that’s what I’m really proud of you for.

For always being honest, publicly about having depression and being on medication because I could imagine being 19 years old and knowing you’re in Frozen, and seeing your TV show and thinking, oh, I’m fucked up because I have these spells where I don’t enjoy anything in life and I don’t want to get out of bed and I hate myself.


And, you know, I wish I could be like her when that is part of you.


Well that came from you because if you’ll remember, I was about to do Sam Jones the long form interview show.

And I said, I don’t have anything to talk about.

What should I talk about?

Because I get utterly nauseated when actors talk about their craft too much.


Luckily, you and I don’t have much crap.

That’s true.

And you, you said, why don’t you talk about your depression and anxiety?

And I said, that’s kind of a great idea.

In fact, I didn’t recognize it until you said it, but it’s the most responsible thing I could do, is what I don’t want to do is make young girls or anyone who might look up to me, think that this is easy or act or natural.


I work very hard.

And again, I work less hard in my the sunset years because I’ve done it for so many years.

I just happiness is a choice to me just like loving someone is a choice.

You really get on my nerves sometimes, but I’ve chosen to love you and I love loving you and it’s the same thing with happiness, you can wake up and you can feel however you want.


But choose to be happy.

Choose to see the good in the day.

Yeah, to me.

That’s Too simple.

I think, I don’t think you can choose to feel good.

I don’t think you can choose to get sober.

You can’t choose to not have mental.

I think you have to actively take action.


Well, that’s what Haley.

So just so wake up.

So for me, wake up, feel depressed.

I’m choosing not to feel depressed today.

What am I going to do?

I’m going to go down and run on the treadmill for 10 minutes, or I’m going to run around the block.

Uh, you make the choice and then you execute the actions that that will get you there.


Like, yeah.

I have a checklist when I feel like And I go through the checklist and like all of I called another dude who’s trying to get sober on.

I haven’t done that if I worked out today.

Now, I probably haven’t done that by taking a walk.

Have I done something?

I don’t want to do for you, you know, and I go through that list and 99% of the time.


I’m not doing all those things that have proven to result in happiness or contentment.

And now, the reason that I’ve gotten over a lot of it as well, a because I take a medication that helps balance me and then be that I have become habitual about the things that make me feel.


Feel good, right, you know, when you told that story checklist and Sam Jones, there was Fallout.

And I think this is something both of us.

Were from your mom sisters.


Oh my gosh, that’s right.

And I’m curious what your opinion is on.

How much of your story is your story and you’re entitled to tell it.

And then we’ll, what obligation do you have to the people in your life for their privacy?


And how do you make that call of whether it’s for the greater good?

Or because I want, I’m told and maybe Zon also, on same Jones, fuck you, Sam Jones.

I told some long story and involved a lot of my stepdads, and there was stuff about the violence, and then I think my mom initially was embarrassed by it and she was a little bit mad and then I felt guilty and then, but my mom’s such an amazing evolved human being that like a week later.


She she called me.

And she said, you know what, I was wrong.

This is your story.

I’m part of your You’re storing your part of mine and you’re entitled to tell your stories from your mom.

I know, I, it was really nice because I had felt really guilty but it is tricky because you and I chose to be, you know, in the public light and It’s Tricky, right?



I, I tend to lean toward.


First of all, I’m a person.

I’m a big believer in that.

Nothing should be taboo.

I’m tired of how little we talk about sex in this country.

I’m tired of how little we talk about mistakes.

Well, I get into trouble in a a I’m Was to say, a out loud on this.

I’m not allowed to say a in any public forum at whether I’m doing a radio, show interview or on TV because you’re supposed to remain anonymous at the level of press and television, but I think that was a rule that was created in 1950 when you could lose your job because you were previously an alcoholic and we don’t live in that world.


Now looks up to the way that you’re handling your life and you say a and looks into it and benefits from it.

To me, proof is in the pudding.

So, yes, the Fallout that you’re all.

So, if I publicly relapse, it will not be a failing of AA.


It’ll be a failing of Dax Shepard.

Not working.

The steps in a.



Right, right.

The Fallout you’re talking about was that because I made a mistake in that, when I was, I had understood.


First of all, I have a very bad memory and that’s not an excuse.


It’s just the truth, but my, my mom I thought had said to me that my grandmother was one of the first people they tested electroshock therapy.

On and my grandmother was depressed and she did drink a lot.


She was also a wonderful woman.

I didn’t get into the fact that she was a wonderful woman on those finite amount of time.



But rightfully so certain members of my family were saying you feel like you sort of slandered this our model of yes.


And also and I didn’t mean to uh, the truth is that they wanted.


They suggested trying electroshock therapy on her.

She never did it.

And so that main detail Kind of stuck out in because I misrepresented it because I didn’t.

I understood it to be something different will.

Also you’re getting information that’s going through the filter of your mother.

And anyone that here’s a story from you and I the here to drastically different versions generally of the story.


So so, you know, you have to recognize it already went through a filter before went through your field, right?

And also, I misheard it.

And by the way, it wasn’t really the point of the story, the point of the story was this is a generational illness, right?

But But always taking a step back.


I can understand how members of my family felt like ice.

I misrepresented someone that they loved very very much.

Yeah, and that it’s sort of like tarnished her record or something which personally having known my grandmother.


I think that she because I know she was a good person.

She would want anytime she struggled to be used for the betterment of other people.

That’s just personally, what I believe.

So that’s how I sort of I felt okay after that interview, even after having been called by members of my family saying, like why did you say that it now, it feels because anyone who knew loved my grandmother loved her because they knew her because she was wonderful.


Although I did sort of have to apologize because I said something that wasn’t true.

They didn’t test electroshock therapy on her, but they had suggested it and that was a point of the story in that there has been a sort of serotonin imbalance in my family for a while, right?

And it can be hereditary.

I mean it’s also Environmental, but whatever.


Yeah, but I personally don’t believe things should be taboo.

I think we should be a lot more open and honest, I mean look, like I’m, you know, like a really good happy-go-lucky bubbly, mom goody-goody and I can say with confidence.

Like I’ve had one-night stands and I don’t dozens and dozens.


Well, I’m a damn it all sizes shapes.

Like I’m not into slut-shaming.

I think women should recognize their He just like men and even if men say they’ve had what like there, I didn’t do anything wrong and I don’t want to let society’s view of something.


Make me.

Well you’ll yeah.

People underestimate that being a human is messy business.

It’s just fucking messy business.

Yeah, and you’re gonna make a ton of mistakes and errors and you got to forgive yourself and you get.

If you’re going to forgive yourself.


You got to forgive other people.

Yeah, and I forgive you.

I forgive you, too.

Yeah, I adore you.

Love you.

That’s basically it, that’s it.

I adore you, anything else.

I wrote other stuff down.


But let me assure you.

We need you.

I’ll ask one final question.

Okay, you and I disagree on almost everything and what percentage of the time are you grateful for that dynamic in which percentage of the time?


Do you wish?

I would just shut the fuck up and do whatever it is you want to do.


I was going to say 50/50 but I don’t think that’s accurate.

I think it’s 70/30 realistically, 65/45 6531 10.


We have one.

We like the most, it’s 60, 65 percent of the time.

I’m incredibly grateful for the dynamic and the amount that you challenge me and the ways in which you show me things in a new light and your ability to teach me things and 35% of the time.


I think you’re being belligerent and For cold and I wish you would be quiet because I’ve done a lot of dishes and done a lot of things around the house and I wish that you would just be quiet and help me.

I think the thing that brings it out the most in you and I as we watch a reality show which we watch a bunch of.


Yeah, well as your you kind of end up in the business of judging these people’s character and kind of making predictions about what they who they will be in future episodes and I’m you and I are always ever because you see wolves, I see sheep and that’s because of the people.

We Were exposed to you around a lot of wolves.


I was around a lot of sheep.

I look for the good in people, but I’m often arguing.

Look, you don’t know how that was edited.

We are in the television business.

You don’t know the moments that were edited out of this or how this was and I just get Spidey senses.

I like look at the dudes.

I and sometimes you go on.


Are you the one?

I’ll see these guys eyes, and I’ll know right away and sometimes you’re right, but then there are certain times where like we’re watching stranger things and I do now and I nail it because I’m like the boyfriend is a good person.

No, he’s going to be the villain and I said, no love that.

Boy, is not going to be the villain.


I do love him.

You love him.

You love a lot of guys.


It’s, um, if I can list your crushes really quick.

I think it’s amusing, amusing.

Well, I’ll tell you why it’s amazing.

Well one is Peter Dinklage.

You’re over the moon about has very sexy.



It’s very sexual, very sexy.

Vincent D’Onofrio.

Yes, a very sexy.


TI big-time sexy.


Riz Ahmed.

Yeah also, so, you know, when people ask me if I ever get jealous of you, making out with guys in movies or whatever it is.


I say to them I wouldn’t even know what to be.

I wouldn’t even know where to begin and who I should be fearful of because just on the surface D’Onofrio and Dinklage are just they’re opposite.

Human beings in every way.

Yeah, and you know, they’re both in your they’re both a bull’s-eye for you.


I could never say like well, I can’t ever let her hang out with an NFL player because I know she’s nuts about 7 foot tall built, dude.

No, no.

No, it’s just you know me.

It’s not feel like could mine.



Could be absolutely anybody anyone.


Yeah better.


Stay on your toes to a Shepherd.


Well, it’s liberating because I God’s will be waste my be a waste of my energy to even try to predict.

Yeah, and I know you’re attracted to anything with legs both male and female, so, it does none of it bothers me because I can’t Get around it.

Yeah, a heartbeat is a prerequisite but anything beyond that probably.


It’s just fun and games.

Yeah, if you ever dated a guy that was as high on the Kenzie Spectrum, as me.

What does that mean?

This will, they can’t make the Kenzie spectrum of being gay.


I don’t know how exactly it breaks down, but I’m whatever the last number is, before you actually like dicks.


I’m right there at the precipice.

Yeah, right.

Have I went to musical theater school?

I do.

That’s true.

Yeah, but you think maybe those guys did like dicks and they just weren’t open about it yet.

No, no.

They were straight with married women.


All right, then then maybe it’s not unique, but I am that last stop on the, on the, you are bringing hardly your this Paradox because you’re also the last stop on the manliest, most gorilla type guy, you could get because not a lot of guys.


Talk about beating someone up on Sunset Boulevard very few people actually do it.


So you’re like, it’s very full fortunate Spectrum.

It’s fortunate.

I was raised by a woman.

Will never part you like about me.

He’s that is your mom and dad.

I know I love your mom.


You met the version of me without my mom and that was my dad.

And even he had her for about three more X11 11 years.

No, this is a man that fought any and everyone at Costco.

That was dared.

Go get a sample while he was getting a sample.

You were going to be in a fight with him.


That’s just as exhausting to me.

Like, I don’t.

Oh, yeah.


I can’t, I can’t do it.

Well, it’s through him that I as, you know, we I for the whole time we’ve been together.

I’ve been on this.

I’ve had this goal of relaxing and traffic, which has been almost impossible for me to do it.


I have, I have bad DNA.

I really think I have like something bad.

I have, you know, it probably was useful 20,000 years ago during the pleistocene or something, but now, it’s completely useless.

But my father was the Breakthrough for me because I was in traffic with him and Michigan, and he was becoming unglued.


I mean, I really thought he was going to have his fourth heart attack.

Attack while driving the car.

And I was looking at him and I thought, oh my god, the guy who cut him off isn’t suffering at all.

That guy is about as merry way.

He’s not even thinking about my dad and my dad.

It has two gallons of cortisol in his blood right now.


His heart rates 185 and he’s on the verge of coronary collapse.

He’s losing.

Yeah, even if he wins, even if he flips the guy off in the guys scared and he drives away in Victory as his, he’s fucking losing, his body is deteriorating.


You’re a team because of this state.

He lets himself get in and I was driving to my meeting and traffic was pissing me off and I had an epiphany where I said.


Well you live in Los Angeles and the traffic’s been this way for 4050 years and it’s going to continue to be this way for probably another hundred years.


So who’s going to change in the scenario?


I like traffic or Dax and that’s a super healthy way for you to look at it because that that works.

For you.

And I look at it a little bit differently, which is like, when my when I was young and my mom said, if you ever talked to a telemarketer and you’re annoyed be nice because you don’t know if that person’s parents died yesterday.


You don’t know if that person is in a wheelchair and having a bad day.

Like you don’t know anyone else’s life.

And I think that’s a really good lesson that we should all be talking about more.

You don’t know, you don’t know what’s going on with me.

I don’t know what’s going on with you.

So when I’m in traffic, a granted, I don’t have the DNA that you have, but there are certain things that piss me off.


It might not be traffic, but sometimes it is When I’m driving and somebody cuts me off.

I don’t know if there’s not a pregnant woman in that car.

Maybe they’re trying to get to the hospital.

I don’t know if they’re trying to get home because their kid broke their wrists.

Like maybe there’s a medical emergency.

I don’t know.

And I don’t care if they are on fire in their car.


Yeah, I know on their way to rescue someone from a well, if they’re in the left lane going under the speed limit.

They deserve the death penalty.

Yeah, I know and I am but my response to telemarketers is Oh my God, I’d love to talk to you about this credit card.


I’m busy right now.

Can I get your home phone number and I’ll call you during dinner and we’ll talk about it.

But you know what?

It’s like me, you’ve actually as much as you hate.

I know.

They have to have a job and there’s other jobs.

There’s other jobs that need to be met with SAS.

I guess that’s what I hear.

You shouldn’t be aggressive and hostile towards towards that, but if you can make a good joke about it, maybe it’s where the in as much as you do, hate my reaction to other drivers, you do.


Like when I say to people, oh, How are you enjoying?


Is this your first time?


Yeah, kind of like that joke.

Yeah, or you say to telemarketers or someone you’re on the phone with this is your first day and then they say it work.

No, no on earth when you’re having trouble like making a return on the phone or something.


Yeah, but as long as it did, if you feel like the other person’s going to enjoy that and not feel like the butt of a joke, again, happiness suffering.


That’s the scale.

I appreciate you doing this.

I know you didn’t want to sure you don’t love being.

On podcasts.

No, I actually do.

I was just not with me.


No, I was known as your fear.

Did you think I was going to try to get you to admit something?

You didn’t want to move it?

Or I thought, well, because came in with a little fear, I think because I feel stupid around you a lot because you’re more book smart than I am.

I’m a lot more emotionally intelligent than you are, but it takes a while to uncover that emotional intelligence.


And I thought, I don’t know.

I thought that I you would ask me a lot about my life, and I wouldn’t have answers that.

Up to what you are trying to get at.

And truthfully, it’s because I want to please you.

I wanted you to have a good podcast and I didn’t know if I could do it.

But luckily we started right off the bat by bickering about something very yeah sincere.


And that you know, we do you had a good idea the other day.

We got in a good-sized fight and then we worked it out and I said, that should have been the podcast.



We should all just start recording when we’re fighting at home.

Should we start broadcasting?

Yeah, that’s more helpful because like watching us roller skate at moonlight roller rink.


Probably doesn’t help any Doesn’t help your relationship like, you know, anyone go buy a ticket and go roller skating but figuring out how to, you know, apologize, help could help people.

Maybe we should do that.

Yeah, I doubt this did it, but it’s still worth it.

Well, hopefully it was entertaining.


I’m gonna have you on every other week.

Okay, because you’re drastically more popular than me and it will really help.

Okay, okay, but I only need to go to Michael’s tomorrow.

Let’s get your to Mike.

Let’s stop this and get you over to Michael’s right now.

All right, stay tuned.

Like to hear my good friend and producer, Monica, Padma and point out the many errors in the podcast.


You just heard.

Hi, Monica.

Hi, what did I did?

I make a lot of erroneous claims you.


I really didn’t?


Think I had to be honest.

I was like, I was a pretty clean.

Well, usually way more out on a limb.

I think we’ll see.

Well, as you said in your introduction, this Kristen Bell episode.


Is the first one.

Yes, so I really I really nitpicky.


Okay, you’re gonna take me.

A task.

Well, yeah, so I don’t know.

I don’t know.

Follow this is really relevant or okay.

Important to hear but I’ll try you know, okay.

So at the beginning.

Yeah, you guys have a discussion about yarn stores, uh-huh.



And Michaels Michaels, but you, you said the best place to go for a yarn is McDonald’s or Taco Bell?

Okay, right, right.

And actually, the best place, you don’t think that.

That red is an obvious Joan.


Okay, you think a lot of people out there cars and race to Taco Bell, to get, you seemed really sincere and I think Taco Bell would appreciate a clarification.


Thank you.

The best place to buy yarn in Los Angeles is the knitting tree.

Okay, not a sponsor.


Let’s just add that.

It’s out of the goodness of Your Heart, Right?

The little Knitter e.


In Los Feliz, right?

Or gather downtown LA.


There’s three good.

Places none of which are Taco Bell more tunnels or Michaels?



I’ll say that.

Okay, great.

I hope that drives a ton of yarn business to those folks because they sound Small, mom-and-pop E.

Don’t they and they all use knitting, well-known did the third day anyway, so what else did Gathering?



You also labeled this very room or in an addict, which I like that, you call it that.


But this is not an ad.

This is a converted attic.

I will argue.

To the death.

This is an attic space.


This was not designed to look at look across the driveway at the regular house.

You see the same pitch and Eve of the roof line.


That’s just all addict up there.

That’s exactly what this was built to just match the roof line of the house, and it’s just all addicts, you know, someone converted this built this on top of the garage specifically as an ex.


Now, I bet you this was converted into this room in the 70s, not 1920, we’d have to dig into the historical, am I?


Been built after.

Well, I’m saying that this was just an empty attic but then was converted into this room.

I’m gonna have to ask James.

We need a third segment where I correct your actions.

That’s probably true.

Okay, what else is not an addict?


We’re going to have to, I didn’t do something.

I was supposed to do.

Can we pause real quick pay a lot of possible because I wanted to bring a tape measure.

You don’t have one here.

Do you know?

I’ve had one here right now.


And Lincoln took it.

Yeah, you want to talk about?


How about the big weekend with my feet?

We could do it with my feet.

They’re exactly 12 inches.

Hold on.

Chris was sitting, she was sitting right here.


Yeah, I feel 15 feet.

What did I say?

You guys just said a bunch of random numbers or just shaneandsam know you didn’t.

I’ll go back and listen.


Double-check that pretty sure you did.

Not what?

You get.

Just simply stay.

You’ve measured it in this.

It was 50 the correct.

The correct measurement is 15 feet from Kristin to the commode from Kristin to the toilet and you can see it for my she sitting.



Okay, and here we go, here’s what here’s another way you were wrong.


I wish we had.

Okay, the he this one’s a weird one because you didn’t, you guys just had a lot of inner personal things that were kind of.






And you’re in it, you’re in a unique position to know these because you’re our best friend and have been for years.

So and I know you might be the objective Outsider.



Well, this isn’t really correction, but I did want to side with someone.




That was happening a lot throughout the my listen, the breast augmentation.

Yeah, you are.

Of course, right?

That you can, you can get that procedure done through your belly button, or armpit.


Yeah, and the the Armpit one is intramuscular.

No, it’s called trans axillary.

Endoscopic, breast augmentation.

Mmm, that sounds expensive.



Sure, does.

And he belly, but navel is called trans umbilical breast, augmentation.

Oh, great.

So if you’re going to go and get your breasts augmented, yep, just know that.

That’s what you need to be requested to exactly tuba.


Yeah, right.


No scars with that one.

I had a little correction for Kristen.

Oh great.

Yeah, let’s light her up.

I don’t normally I don’t think I’m going to normally do that.

But in this case, I will because I feel comfortable doing that with her.


Her memory is terrible.

Yeah, so I had to check some stuff.

I check some stuff with her mom.

Oh, wow, you really went for I did I?

So again.

This is just another human who is experiencing this at the same time.

I couldn’t like look it up on the internet.

So I I don’t know for sure.


But Lori.

Yes dance.

Mom said that Kristen was 13 when she started playing music, which is much later.

Yeah, then Kristen recalls it.

Yeah considerably because I think she’s got like eight years old or something.




Oh, five years off at a period were five years represents?

Half of your life.


She’s a hundred percent off.

She’s about to be in high school.


Started which, to me just makes me even.

It’s even more gross, because then she’s that good and she started pretty late.


Yeah, that makes her more of a prodigy.

Yeah, exactly.

I tried to get the name of the Shel Silverstein poem, but I forgot.

She did not have that information for me.

Okay, um, oh, okay.

So so acromegaly.



I wanted you to tell people what that is because I do think everyone knows what that is.

So it is in general.

It’s if you have a tumor on your pituitary gland and the pressure on your pituitary gland, causes your gland to make way more HGH than it.


Good in your body.

Continues to grow and grow and grow after puberty or even excessively pre-puberty.

And a very famous person with acromegaly, is Tony Robbins.

Who we like in worship.


Did your do you write about it?

Was that?

All right?




Well, I didn’t really, it’s kind of burnout you, you can kind of visually identify it because generally that you have a really big mandible, right?


Your jaw, your Jawbone and, you know, Andre the Giant famously had a Romantically and so did the tallest man in the world is names.

Like we’re also shit.

You’re going to want to have to fact-check.

Anyways, Waldo Emerson or something.


He’s the tallest man.


Well, yeah.

I was the tallest man in the world, you know?

For my kit my childhood Guinness Book of World Records and he had it.

Yeah, you’re pretty severe than he was.

He was a maybe over eight feet tall.

I mean Robert Pershing Wadlow.



Well, hello.

There we go.

I said Waldo.

Robert Hirsch, and I don’t even know the bobber Pershing and how it was.

He was, he eight feet something.

He was eight foot to eight foot eleven.

Holy fuck.

That’s nine feet tall.


That’s a that’s crazy.


Are you sure Dottie Robbins has it?

Yes, because I I thought he looked like he had it and then when we were watching the documentary, I looked up I Googled does Tony Tony Robbins have Ali, and he does.


And he opted, at least in the thing I read online to not have the procedure to remove that tumor from his pituitary gland.



Because it wasn’t, he did not know.

Now, I’m remembering he didn’t have something that’s basically called organ, magali, which is his organs hadn’t gotten huge big.


That’s where it is, fatal.

Yes pathological, interesting, great.



I also, this is just me because Not a religious person.

Yeah, and I’m not smart enough to know this but a parochial school.


Mmm is a church based school.

I mean that was kind of clear in the way she was talking but I don’t know if everyone knows what a parochial school is right and non-secular school.

Yeah, right.

Yep, great.

I just want to throw in really quick.

Just to give you some credentials that you did.


Get a 4.0 through all of high school.

Thank you.

I even a little higher because you had a college College.

Not high school.

Oh, not high school.

You graduated college University of Georgia, with a 4.0 Cowboy, that metalizer white.


I didn’t hate, and I never said that.

I said, I got one be in college.


And a smattering of seasoned and it was in the summer.

I failed a couple do always a 1 B.

That’s yeah.

And the view was a Eighty nine point eight and it was not rounded up and I got a hunch that was because your personality probably and I really went in and begged.


Oh, you did Mike.

Oh my God.

I was aimless.

I was very upset.



Look otherwise you could have said 4.0 and it would have been correct.

Um, what else?

Let’s see.

Oh, you Kristin said, she’s a secret socialist and I wanted to be very clear that she’s Not a socialist, although she think she is she’s that’s not know.


She’s not a socialist, but she believed she is so she is correct in that she believes.

She I don’t want no season.

Yeah, she doesn’t think that because it did come out of her mouth and I know that that not to be true.

Yeah, that’s not true.



I think what she really means is that she’d like to see a really nice safety net.


And Social Services provided for low-income people.

I don’t think she really means that she wants to the state.

Eight own.

She’s a person who wants equality for everyone.


But yeah, not stay one.

Um, Let’s see.

What else?

Oh, you said the podcast was brought to you by Michaels and it’s not.


That was a joke.

Yeah, let’s go.

When we’re talking about ads.


I think we got to be really clear.

Okay, not yet.

All right to yeah, you by my eventually brought to you by Michael, correct?


You said Homo sapiens have been here for 75,000 years.

No, I didn’t.


You did.

No, I didn’t.

I would have never said that.


I would have never said you did.

I’m an anthropology major.

Well, and here for a hundred fifty thousand years. 200.

Well, that’s running to the Smithsonian website.

They don’t know.

Fucking dick.

They know everything.

Yes, when I was I was saying you when I went to college and major in anthropology.


They did say they even said 250,000 years, but now currently like YOLO who just wrote sapiens is saying like 175 or something.

Well, there’s just a lot of debate about what it was its own species, like clearly defined couldn’t have had a fertile progeny with A previous vomited.



That’s hard to pin Point.


Around 200-thousand.

Yeah, not 75,000.

And you did.

I did not.

I’ll bet you right now.

A million fucking dollars.

There’s no way I said that that we have been here for 75,000.


It’s okay.

We can do this to go back and listen.


Okay, maybe I’m right.

I hope I’m not.

Um, Take your time.

Find this one.

This is gonna require more as a man.

And he said I really am sorry.



There’s a lot of stuff.


It’s a new bull.

You said it’s bullet-pointed.

You said it takes 30 or 40 people to get Kristen ready?

Okay, right that’s wrong.

I was an exaggeration.


I was.



Again, I thought I was some people will believe very clearly joking.


Don’t know how many people It takes, it does take a lot of.

Keep it takes three people in.

True can be more but it takes three.

It takes a hair and makeup and in The Stylist.


And a few extras.


Sometimes those people have assistance.

Yeah, sometimes a guy brings jewelry over with like handcuffs around his belt loop.

Yeah, that’s exciting.

When that happens that security guard.

I’m there sometimes.

Yes, your I’m just lingering.



So at the end you discuss the Kinsey scale.

Little bit.

Oh, right?

And and to be honest, I felt a little bit like I might have been talking out of my ass.


That there is even a scale.

There is there is okay good and I have it.

I have it here.

I’m going to read it to you.


Oh great.


It’s 026 the scale weird.


Why not?

Just do 10.

It don’t matter.

I guess you’ll see there’s only so many things that can happen. 0 exclusively heterosexual one predominantly heterosexual only incidentally homosexual.


To predominantly heterosexual sexual, but more incident more than incidentally homosexual.


These are very vague three, definite, equally heterosexual and homosexual.

Well, that’s a three.

That’s what we would call.

Bisexual correctly.


See, is the three middle of the road, right?

So, I’m not high on.

No, you’re not.

And you said, you have were high.


I said, I was like a nine or he said you were the highest number before.

It’s you guys liking dicks.



And you’re too because 3 is bisexual.


You like other men’s penis.

You know, you’re not a to your want your like a .5.


Yeah, you are not.

Why am I hugging and kissing man?

That’s what is that accidentally?


That’s not more than.


Incidentally, to is more than incidental or well, I guess I choose to kiss, guys, on the lips you no longer than most.


Kissed Tom Hanson on the lips.

Every time I see him.

Do ya, I kiss on New Year’s Eve.


I kiss Ben.

Heart on the lips.


Yeah, I do a lot of kissing on the lips with other men.

I think that would qualify as incidental.


Not it’s not more than it’s more than incident.


No, I think incidental is like you.


You went to hug a man and then you both got confusing.

You kiss accidental.

That’s different, right?

This is not that no, I’m I’m like II.

I have it’s premeditated kissing which I feel like is more than incidental.

But anyways, hey, you’re a want okay, let’s uh Palmer.



I really just wanted.

Thank you bust your balls on that.

Thank you.

I think that’s it for Kristin.

Yeah, the I didn’t make a ton of claims and then you and I will have a post post mortem.

Yeah, and we’ll talk about the 75,000 because I think you’re wrong.


I’m but I love you and thank you for helping me.

Keep this.

He’s on the up-and-up aboveboard.

Yeah, we gotta I look forward to fight the fake news with you.

That’s right.

We’re doing our part.

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