Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Ashton Kutcher


Hello and welcome to the armchair expert.

I’m Dax Shepard today.

I get a chance to thank the person who started my career Ashton Kutcher, we’ve known each other for about 15 years now and I can say, he has been endlessly, generous to me over that time.


And it was really, really nice to thank him face-to-face.

But in retrospect, if I’m being dead honest, after he left, it occurred to me, I stopped short of what I should have really said, as you will hear.

Shortly Punk’d was the biggest break of my professional life and I’ve never been so excited to get a job.


It was very successful and I should have felt nothing but gratitude for that experience, but as happens with me, my ego complicated and tainted that experience almost immediately.

And I was able to admit that to him during the conversation, but I realized after he left that, I really owed him an apology for that.


I can only assume that as I was trying to distance myself from the show.

It must have felt like I was also trying to distance myself from him, which is terrible, because he could not have possibly been more supportive or quicker to share credit with me.

He was a mentor and an ally and I deeply regret.


If it ever felt like I was trying to distance myself from him.

I should have said that to him.

Maybe I still will but at any rate, I really enjoyed combing through our shared history together and I applaud his Candor and humility.

Please enjoy my old friend star.

The ranch on Netflix Ashton Kutcher.


He’s an unchanged.


Thank you so much for coming and doing my podcast.

I didn’t for having but but, but one of many generous things you’ve done for me.

We don’t, I actually feel like it’s completely the other way.

Oh, you do?



Oh great.

I can’t wait to hear because I got excited to publicly.


Thank you because I don’t know that you recognize just how fucking long I had been auditioning for tampon commercials and this and that when I got punked, I mean, I was almost 10 years in La trying to make a paycheck acting and it just wasn’t happening and then I got punked and I’ve worked mostly ever since and I think clearly Was getting close to the end.


I think this a lot of casting people that didn’t weren’t recognizing your really exciting because, yeah, it was fairly obvious to me from, like, from from moment one.

And and I also think that like, I think the fact that Punk’s was pure improv.



I think like played into every one of your sort of innate skill sets from from the get-go.

Well, honored percent, I remember driving Having to the audition in Santa Monica and I live very close and I remember driving there thinking.

Okay, you’ve audition for a lot of things now.


Over the last nine years.

You’ve not gotten any of them.

If you can’t get this show.

We’re really the prerequisites.

Skill set is a you can improv and be you’re not afraid.

If shit goes sideways, like if someone punches you you’re open to that and I thought if I can’t get a job at, that’s the two skill sets.


I really, I got to give up because that is that was the the Recipe.

I had going at that moment in life.

Well, you had all of your growling straining relative to improv and that was clear from like get go one and two you had their nobody was as Fearless as you on that show.


And you know from I think every single season that we cast after we, you were basically burnt from being able to do more because when you showed up people thought, Thought it was going down.


And even in real life, but I think every single season we had from that point on, we were like, alright, we have to find our Dax.


We have to fund our documents very every single casting session that we did because that fearlessness is, but got like drove all the goal.

And and the fact that like as it was really the first time I was, you know, somewhat directing, I was kind of co-directing it, but I knew as long as you were on the floor that we could recover anything that went sideways and that we Push it further than we push it with other people because of a of your feel inferior to fearlessness, but also, because I’ve, you had the ability to continue to escalate but then diffuse and then escalate again, and then diffuse.



In a way that few people after you or before you.

Well, another thing child just childhood training being a middle child, I grew up with that, my brother.

It was a teenager and he was insane.

And then I and my sister was a baby and she was cuckoo.

So there I think like it was the perfect.


Perfect thing for me to Landon but I don’t know that you’ll ever really understand my experience of going in there.

Auditioning meeting you going to do the pilot again, nine years of trying nothing and then we finish shooting the pilot in Las Vegas.


You take me to Endeavor at that time.

I don’t know if you remember this, but my agent was so low end that she went out of business while we were shooting the pilot.

So the check when it got sent it, got sent to A boarded-up building in Venice and I never even got paid because my age and had gone out of business, but you took me to Endeavor and you basically told Greg Siegel who was our agent for years.


You’ve got to sign this guy right now and then you took me to a Lakers game and you introduced me to car.

See Marcy Carsey was at the Lakers.

Like I remember all this stuff so vividly because I was living in a one-bedroom apartment in Santa Monica.


And all of a sudden I was at a Lakers game with you and it was terribly exciting.

I have to tell you I was very very it was a very romantic and I remember I was Starstruck.

I remember the agency piece.

I remember going in the agency and and and being quite certain that that you had needed to be on the team know that but also that that you had a lot of upward potential and that with the right representation, you would get that and I don’t remember the Lakers game, okay.


Sure, why wouldn’t?

I’m sure you win all the time.

I’m sure it was really fun.

That was my well, they had those in town first.

Do we sit in the Courtside Endeavor?

We didn’t.

Those are incredible.

Yeah, the have sad.


Those are, those are power.

See, I think I told you may be the highlight of my life was, I was sitting.


We were sitting there and then and then the agent who took me, let me actually sit because these seats start, right?

Where the Lakers bench.

And so you can actually completely players as haunt them.

You’re there was a moment where I felt like I am I’m on this team.


They may tell me to get in there and play.

Yeah, and there was the, the moment I just couldn’t believe happened, was, Kobe had like, he called a timeout and then he came back to the bench.

He was like yelling at guys, don’t derrickman.

You’re gonna get a deem you have Ava, and then, and then he just looks at me and he goes, oh, damn, you a funny motherfucker and then gave me one of those it’s happened.


Tap hugs.


Yeah, and like, he then went back to yelling at everyone.

I looked at Siegel and I’m like, I’m a fucking later.

On the Los Angeles Lakers Legend.

It wasn’t.

I got up.

I got in a fight with Gary Payton in the middle of a game, once really, when he was playing for the Seattle SuperSonics and they were playing and I was tackling him so hard from those seeds are glove and he turned and he just looks at me and he’s just like, eat your fucking hot dog.



Oh, that’s great.

He, I got in his head and got it was, it was paint.

It was Payton and Shawn Kemp was his right-hand man, right.

And I think it was post kept out because I wouldn’t want Camp.

I like, I don’t think I’m best.

We can, you know, the glove?

I’d be like, all right, I’m not gonna die in this fight.


I’m not saying I’m gonna win but I might I’m not gonna die.

But Camp, I’d be nervous.

I’d go down.

Thumbs were some good seats.

Yeah, but you took me to the game and I think it’s also relevant to say that at that time in my life.

I had this weird version of sobriety if you remember where I didn’t drink because I had recognized, I had a drinking problem, but I still did drugs, you remember that.


I don’t think I know.

I remember you and I were standing in line at the Legacy.

We’re taking some Vicodin.

Sure sure, but restoration, I don’t like it, but I don’t think so.

I was so you’re weirdly naive about drugs, which is probably why you’re still here.


I’m super naive about when I got to Los Angeles.

I so when I was in high school and college, I smoked weed, some and this mushrooms and tried acid and did some various things that were, you know, expansive for me at the time.


Sure, but, When I got your actually, well, I got put in jail when I was 18, and then I was on probation and you broken your high school.

I’ve broken my high school and I third degree burglary charges that I got deferred judgment on and then got them dropped, right?


Oh, you did.


Okay, so by firearms and vote, which is nice.

Okay, great and run for office.

If you have, I’m sure if I ever did someone would bring that up because I was not, well, that’s why you’re getting out of it right now.

That’s right.

That’s just lay it out there.

I always thought Colin Farrell was the master of that.


Like other people would be getting busted in the trades because like they got caught with weed or whatever.

And I remember, reading a Playboy interview with him and he’s they said, you do drugs in his.

Oh, yeah, this weekend.

I did ecstasy and cocaine was like, oh my God, that’s what you do.

You just say, he’s all you, everything and then there’s no story.

So, I did a ton of that fun stuff when I was young, and then when I, when I went, when I was on probation, I went to college.


I was like, I’m done.

Like I’m done.

Done done and I think like I smoke one time while I was in college and then after I dropped out and moved to Los Angeles, Is Danny Masterson on my show was very anti-drugs, very anti-drugs, like all scientologists that I know are like super, super anti-drug and So Pro cigarettes and booze.


But anti.


Yes, and so he’s big, he’s big thing to the whole cast on 70 shoes, of the kind of my mentor when I got in my big brother figure out here because he had done a ton of stuff, right?

Like you’ve been acting since he was a kid or right?

Yeah, so and he was like, nobody on this set is doing drugs that, right.


That’s it like that.

And if you were at a party Be in someone was there to who kicked him out.


Yeah, he was that Vigilant about it.

Yes, and I was like well because I believe to is the the theory behind it.

As I understand it is.

From the Scientology perspective is people on drugs, make your environment dangerous, right?



That’s so I can I can understand the logic and there are certain drugs that are stored in your fat cells, which then ultimately long-term have, you know, effects of it.

I don’t know who cares.


I don’t know if it’s or not here to say whether that’s true or not.


In fact, there’s some bending about suffice to say, your Mentor was took a hard line on drugs and you and so I didn’t do drugs.


I drank like a fish can tell you really one funny thing.

It’s during this whole period where you were taking me under your wing and introducing me to your Friendship Circle.

I ended up in a car one night with Danny and we were driving and he goes, you don’t drink on I go.

No, I don’t.


I don’t drink but I do, I do drugs and then he said he gave me quite a long winded.

Lecture about it.

But he was also driving the car Hammer.

I think the statute is really, I think I can say this now, he was hammered driving the car and I thought, wow.


Little ironic.

Yeah, but look.

So it’s yeah, it’s great Any, Which Way, yeah, so I had entered into a pretty long run of sobriety from drugs and I didn’t really drink that much, like if we went out on the weekends or something, I would drink, but like, during like I was kind of had like a school night rule, like, if I had work the next day, I wasn’t really young and I bent it a couple times here and there.


But for the most part I really had like a relatively so moving on.

So therefore I was kind of blunt like I like somebody could be, you know on below like a front, I wouldn’t know.

Yeah, you know, the signs to look for right?

I wouldn’t know a drug addict and then your the to me your.


You and my friend Nate.

Talk are the most frustrating type of Drinker because I’m not actually jealous of the guy who drinks one drink.

I don’t want to be that guy who gives a fuck about having one drink, but what’s you know, what’s one drink doing the why even do it?


Why even do it?

That would just make me agitated.

And that’s the same way.

So you have this, this relationship with booze were you can get fucked up, you’ll go for it.

And then it’s just not a problem.

Yeah, it’s so great like you certainly partied but you could turn it off and then you wouldn’t do it for five days.


And I even think about it and I have from my perspective.

I also have a relatively high tolerance for alcohol.

So I can have three for drinks and not and get on a motorcycle and just put some road, but I probably wouldn’t do that, but I can have three or four drinks.

And not have any sort of outward signs of belligerence a belligerent.



I’ve never seen you hammered and we’ve certainly drank.

I want to God’s hammered.

But but then I do like silly thing like I’m doing sober January right now, where I’m just not going to drink because I’m like, I just sort of just want to clear out the system and are also, you know, you want to reset the tolerance so that you don’t have to drink so much.



Yes, that’s good to reset.

So I’m doing I’m currently on day 2 of sober January, so I’m on dick.

You know, you’re on day three I think or did you drink on well?

And New Year’s Day I Mila’s father.

My meal is whole family’s version, right?


And so when you do New Year’s with them, if you’re not drink, if I don’t drink with her father on New Year’s, it would be like disrespectful.


Yeah, so I did three shots of Armenian Brandy, really, you’re not vodka.


None of the shoot cognac or brandy.

Okay, or vodka, okay.

Big celebrations.

It goes Cognac.

And so I did three shots of cognac at dinner on the first, but so I’m sure they to update it.

Yeah, I’m current I’m day 3 right now.


No Diet Coke back off that ice.

No dip.

I had a small foray into the dipping this year that, under eight years off.

It happens.

And what’s another one?

I’m off of a third thing.

I’m off of Diet Coke, dip and sugar.


Oh, Oh, yeah.


Yeah, that’s it.

That’s it.

If you ever done that, I, I’ve gone.

So I went right after I got divorced.

I did, I went to the mountains for a week by myself.

San Gabriels know, I went into Big Sky and I can’t Anna.


Can you imagine if you want to the same game?

You never really are but anyone retrieving the San Gabriels and I did no food.

No drink, just water and tea.

And no, I took all my computer’s away, my phone, my everything.


I was there by myself.

So there was no talking and I just had a notepad and a pen and water, and tea for a week for a week.

Yeah, and that way, I would imagine the first two days are insufferable and then you kind of, I started my belongs in a tan like day to, which was fantastic.


It was so like pretty wonderful.


And and got I was like doing Tai Chi with, you know, my own energy.

I don’t know.

And I really don’t have any formal training in Tai Chi do?


No, right, right.

Oh, he’s doing.


I was just doing doing what came to me.


And then I wrote down every single relationship that I had where I felt like there was like some Grudge or some anything regret anything and then I wrote letters to every single person and sent the letter the on day 7.


I typed them all out and then sent them by hand wrote them all.

And then type them up and mostly taking responsibility for your shortcomings.

And yeah, it just kind of it was just telling them.

You know, what ice like I still think you’re a so I know it was all show.

It was like an ax.



I was like, I probably have like done some damage in some real quick.

So I just cleared palette and but that was seven days of know anything.

Uh-huh was really spiritual kind of awesome.

But yeah, it wouldn’t I probably wouldn’t I would probably find some way to get some To know my body.


Well, what’s interesting to me about when you do, break up with someone and you’ve been with them for a while, so I was with brie for nine years and you knew breaks.

I was with her during the whole Punk era when we broke up the first six months.

I had a laundry list of things she had done to cause this separation, you know, I had like 18 things.


I thought she had done wrong.

And then over the years, those of all just kind of gone away and all I’m left with was all the things I did wrong and those became Really easy to see once I wasn’t thinking about the things she did wrong.

Yeah, and I have because I am an AA and I have to make amends all the time.


I have over the last 12 years.

I’ll call her like once every six months ago, man.

I just, I gotta say, I’m also say, see, is that on numerous occasions.

We are good.

I have a great memory of you.

You don’t need to apologize any further.

I’m like, no, I need to because I’m thinking about it as I fall asleep.


Like God, that was pretty shitty to.

I’m sure I probably have more things now.

If I really sat down and like laundry list again, and I I should probably do that sometime soon.

Yeah, when you go to bed, you kind of go through things.


You kind of regret?

Do you take like a mini inventory?

I don’t really do you fall right asleep.

Let me start fast asleep.

Oh, okay.

Are usually, I usually have like a 15-minute window before I hit the BET and then it’s done.


Wow, and if not, I’ll wait.

Cup and make a list because usually it’s because I’m ruminating on something sure.

And and what I do is I just immediately, turn, whatever it is that I can’t stop thinking about.

I just turn it into an executable list of how to actually take care of it.


And then the next day, I just jump on it first thing, right?

I’m every single night about 45 minutes of just thinking, I’d it’s never productive.

Either the things I will wake up at three in the morning, like this happened to me over Christmas.

We went and saw my mom in Portland.

Hood River, Oregon, she has a dog.


This dog was clearly killing me.

I’m so allergic to this dog.

And it’s 20 degrees outside.

So everything sealed shut.

And I just sat in this house for eight days dying and I was like sprung awake at 3 in the morning thinking.

Oh my God, my stepfather is dying.

And I’ve told her to come live in our house and she’s going to bring this fucking dog and I just signed my own death warrant and I am this at 3:00 in the morning is an insurmountable problem in my life.


I could I will never be able to figure out how to keep the dog out of my living space.

Is at 3:00 in the morning and you build a doghouse.

Well, there’s so many solutions, that’s my point.

But at three in the morning, this, this cannot be fixed.

I, I have to take my mom in and yet I’m going to die because of this dog.


And that, that’s my 3:00 in the morning thinking I don’t have those types of flows.

That’s great.

Do you do you listen to a bunch of podcasts?

I listen to.

I listen to Tim Ferriss, which I think is really interesting.


Sort of cult around stoicism that he’s building.


I think it’s like fascinating like he’s I think he’s like in some ways building a modern day cult, which I’m sure wonderful.


And some of its viable and some of these valuable.

And so he listened to Sam Harris.

I don’t listen to Sam Harris.

So I’m addicted to him and he’s a neurologist by training and he has always a ton of doctors on and they’re always talking about your brain chemistry and how much, you know, he actually doesn’t believe in Free Will.


I won’t go that far, but he just talks about how what a slave you are to your Biochemistry and you just can’t get around it in the more, I hear him talk about it.

I just think, fuck, man, you hit the lottery.

You’re either born with great chemistry for this or that or you’re, you know, it’s so for you.


You go to bed at night and you go to sleep.

That’s not through any effort of yours during the day.

Have you just have?

You don’t have you read the gene?

The gene?


No, there’s a practice selfish Gene to know.

There’s a great book called the gene where the guy basically breaks down.

Just look nature versus nurture.


Yes, and if What It ultimately amounts to is nature and nurture.

Yes, it’s both and and but at best, they say, it’s 50/50, but you can switch genes, right?

Like, you can actually turn them on, turn them all.

Like, they’re like environmental stimuli actually have the capacity to turn on and turn off genes to some.


Yeah, some of them, right?

So the based on this book, I’m usually so exhausted.

By the time I get into bed.

Yeah, that it’s just over.

It’s like it’s literally like the batteries are empty.


But Bells the same way and even if she hasn’t done anything exhausting, like she hits the pillow and she’s out.


That’s it.

It’s a wrap on her eye.

She has seen me fall asleep.

Maybe twice in the last 11 years.

What do you so?

Do you introduce any kind of stimulants in the bedroom?


Well, let me tell you my ritual.

When I go to sleep.

I brew a pot of coffee and I open up a fresh can of dip, and then I get on my screen.


I get that blue light.

Just blasting into my eyes.

So do I have a ring of an absurd?

And I think, if I had to enter the dating world at this visit, that’s not your ritual.

When I was telling my, I would love to tell you my rich what a ritual, but I’m just preface it by saying that is, it is occurred to me that if I had to date at this point in life, no one would ever date me because they said, yes, because of my ritual.


I think I asked Tom Arnold, this one time with Tom, early gotten divorced, and he, and I knew he had a CPAP machine, right?

So he’s got this humongous moschini as the use, go to sleep and he had entered the dating world.

I said, how the fuck are you telling these girls?

That you go on a date with like yes, I’ll spend the night.


Hold on.

I gotta go.

Grab my gigantic machine out of my trunk in one eye still pop to it in your bed.

It must be so hard.

But yeah, so II do a melatonin I do a liquid melatonin shot, right and I unfortunately most nights I have to also take a like an Advil PM or an Aleve p.m.


And then I I have to listen to a book on tape, but it has to be something very dense in his stork.

So that it’s so boring.

That it will put me to sleep.

So I have to hook myself up, you know, and turn on the phone and then I got to scrub back because last night, I fell asleep at some point.


While it was on.

I gotta find that place.

It is ridiculous.

I some to occasionally, if I’m not ready to go to sleep, but meal is ready to go to sleep.

We will go to bed.

And then we turn the TV on for a little while and then she’ll fall asleep during a TV show but then I can’t leave the volume up because that wakes her up then I’ll put in a book on tape and listen to it and fall asleep.


And so I experienced the rewind the audible like try to find.

Yes, it’s very hard.

But luckily.

Now they’ve added to my thing that I use.

You can at least set the timer.

So I set up for an hour and I’d say 80% of the nights.

I’m asleep before it turns out.

Okay, right.


So, whatever I’ve fought this on this know it beats certainly, what I was doing I were years ago and whose single but now newly in a relationship that doesn’t allow his girlfriend to sleep in the same bed with him.

Realize, he wakes him up.

He’s a really light.




The p.

Apparently like, Time now is this guy’s name Dax Shepard because you just described but he sleeps in his own room.

I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with that but I I mean it’s there’s nothing wrong with any, it’s really.

I mean if you’re gonna sleep on the roof of your house.


Great, but how does the girl feel?

I don’t know what.

I don’t.

I don’t know how to, you know, apparently like she was again, another thing to brighten another weird thing to break out on like the third day.

Like, okay, so I’d love for you to spend the night.

But but you’ll miss your room.



There’s there’s I would say that their sleep is probably that one of the most important things.

I couldn’t agree more my world and finding whatever you have to do to make that happen.

I’m neurotic about it.

I got to get eight hours and then so also because you and I both have young kids.


Well, there’s that and what is I would say?


And I was going to observe this about but you guys to have a monitors in your room.

We don’t have monitors.

Fuck that amazing.

I really will say, I do 50% of the shit with these kids, you know, like I I definitely changed more than my share of diapers and I’ve done.

I’ve been, I’ve exceeded what I think, my father certainly did, but the one thing that now has evolved?


And I thank her so much for this.

Is she and this took us a few years to figure out, she now gets up with the kids because I’ll get up with them.

But then I’m up for another 40 minutes.

She can get up and then come back to sleep and she’s out in 30 seconds.

And then we just realized I just can’t do it because I’ll be up all night long, you know who gets up between you and Mila, we both get up every morning.


Well, I’m talking about in the middle of the night, if something goes.

Okay, lawyer the night.

But we flipped it back and forth.

Ye turn because she was breastfeeding the kids.

She primarily she did way more than her share.

Yeah, I would say probably like 80 20 because she could go and breastfeed them write down when they were little.


I mean, now they don’t wake up at night, which is good.

But but during that period of time she she probably took on 80% of that.

Yeah, but you know and people don’t plan well because I would be like, when I was Parenthood.

There were a bunch of people on that show who had young kids to and what shocked me is that our approach to a Christian dies.


And this was back when they’re she was, the kids were breastfeeding was I would do the late night feeding and I would do it with the bottle and then she would do early morning so that, at least we were both getting eight hours, you know, just in two different slots.


I don’t, I don’t know that.

Our kids slept pretty.


Well, we got this thing for kid.

Number the kid, number one.

There was a lot of those like crazy weird nights, like you just because you don’t know how to plan because you never done.

Before so you have no idea.

Yeah, kid.

Number two.

We got one of those snooze.

Have you heard of this thing?

No, it’s an oscillating but you should disclose.


If you have an interest.

I don’t have any issues.

I’ve no interest.

I said the got.

So the guy who wrote happiest baby on the Block.

Oh, yeah.


The 5S.

Yeah, the five aspects, Wayne swaddling shushing sucking.

There you go.


Yeah, so this guy shaking violently Jake This guy is for as in the navi.


A this guy invented this bed, that does the essence, right?

Oh, really?


It’s got a natural swaddle and and it’s got a sensor in it.

And little louder, the kid cries, the faster it goes.

Jesus and yeah, what’s the capacity?

It’s unbelievable, right?


Trust me on this.


So for our our second kid, he slept six hours 16 hours a day.


I slept six hours a night on like night three.

And it was done like and he would just think if he wake up and he just Start going wild really slowly.

What about you?

Put it back down and if you start crying lat and at a certain point, you know, you take him out because you’re like, okay, this isn’t happening.


Yeah, but I mean he was like a six-hour night sleeper, really, and I’m eternally grateful to this new for that.

I give very few gifts to people when they are expecting.

And that is one thing I get people happiest baby on the Block always.



That it has a really funny name to dr.

Harvey, karp, Harvey, karp.

Yes, sir.

So, so, happy spring on the Block, and the other one.

I I was asleep easy solution which is how to sleep train your kid.



We were we were militant that way as well.

I think some people just fail on that one bar.


Yeah, and they’re the only ones that pay the price.

That’s what’s funny.

Yeah, and once you’ve nailed that, it’s everything else is manageable.

Yeah, it’s hard.

Not to be judgmental when you’re a parent you have friends who like their kids a year and a half and they still don’t sleep through the night.


You’re like, come on man.


Yeah, but I want to get back to the moment that we started.


Becoming friends and hanging out because it was such a fun period for me and it really was like a light switch because I went again from nine years of obscurity to doing Punk’d and then immediately I got to start doing movies, right?


And this really interesting and embarrassing thing happened.


Which is the greatest thing that ever happened to me, was punked, but then I went and did without a paddle, and I immediately when they would write reviews of it, and they’d say, The guy from punked or the guy from the reality show, right?


So for years, I was ashamed and embarrassed that I had come from Punk and then I was on a reality show, I Knew by.

Yeah, and it took what I got to say.

It took me about 10 years, before I was able to come back around and be proud of having done that show, and it’s such a failing of my own.


It’s a self-esteem that I just was like, no, I want to be a real Laughter, I don’t want to be a guy who was on a reality show, but the weird thing is that show.

So amongst many other reality shows that there are that are out there and in no way, shape, or form judging, anyone who’s doing a reality show.


The difference was, is that show was formulaic improv acting, right?

So and and every single sketch that we did, there was an outline for the sketch.

What we were trying to accomplish what we’re trying to do, right?

And then the Nuance of the interior.

All improv acting, right?


But you were playing a character, every single time you is so, and and I think that there’s a big because a lot of people, especially as like, the whole Paparazzi reality stuff started happening, you know, like the TMZ guys would be like, come on, man.

You did reality shows.

Like, yeah, but every single person that was ever on that show signed a waiver and agreed to actually be on it.


It wasn’t as important.

We were like, you know, you know, haunting people on the sides of the street, like they all signed waivers and agree to be on and anybody who didn’t do it.

Wasn’t on it.


What you were doing was acting, it was performing in acting it, but I knew, I knew going out of it because, you know, I had the same like, when I, after I did, Dude, Where’s My Car?


Yeah, you know, that’s kind of why I bring it up because I’ve got a couple things.

I imagine that we’re like they were everything.

But then yet soon as they happen, you start like wanting to be away from.

So after five years of, you know, it later after Dude, where’s my car and people were still dude’s?

Weeding me.


I was like, really like can we have a different that like, like can I do something else with my career?


Yeah, and then after punked it was like, oh, you got pied still today like people on the, you know, like, are you poking me right now?

I’m like, no.

I didn’t litter.

I listened 2003.

So okay.


Yeah, so and then you kind of want to get away from it and forget the name, like, and put the next thing under the belt.

Because you don’t want to be known for that one thing.

Yeah, and I and I knew that you had that feeling in that sense.

Yeah, but and I’m glad that you got to a point where you now celebrated because what you did was Extraordinary work and and, and in a weird way, you know, the reason why when you started by saying thank you and I say no.


Thank you is because it without you, I don’t think this show would have been nearly as successful as it was and B, you know, I got a lot of credit for that show because I was, you know, hosting the show behind the scenes in helping directing and producing it and and, you know, they would show me feed in a line to you.


And then you would say it.

But 90% of the stuff that you did was your material, your own stuff.

And it was funny and great and Brilliant.

And I think I got a lot of credit for a lot of the stuff that was organically yours.

And and so well, the thing I’m really proud of now is that having done a bunch of regular acting work?


I regularly on the set of Parenthood was not good.

The first three takes, it was not believable what I was doing and I got to do it again and again and again till I got to wear, it was believable.

And certainly I’m Punk that it was one.

Take, was it?

Yeah, and if you fucked up the bit was kind of over there.


Like they would realize, oh, this is bullshit, wasn’t just over.

It was, you know, sometimes 200-300 thousand dollars down the oh you’re at and insert it from a production standpoint.

It was like the stakes were high.

So, and I hadn’t done everything.

Either in there were certain guests.

We had like, when we did Timber like all of MTV came like, that was such a marquee person for them and that their relationship was obviously so important that they really were micromanaging that.


So their garage was full of everyone that worked at MTV was in that garage and they had Pulled me aside separately to say, don’t fuck this one up.

This isn’t the one to go big on, you know, all these different things were happening, and then it went off, but I think of like, yeah, what.

We got away was with the Nicholas Shake one.


You know.

Now I’m really proud of that.

Like that one is far as could possibly go.

Probably without he and I fist-fighting your hair.

Any never at one point.

I thought it wasn’t real, which is I think is pretty amazing.

It was there.

There were two things that were like being able to press the Buttons as hard as you press the buttons and, and stay in it, and not break, and lose your shit.


One two, it was like, the, the, the value of the non sequitur, like connectivity was.

I mean, I’ll go back to like, Dave, Navarro and Carmen Electra, in the back of an SUV, and you’re like shooting the shit with him about drum sets in line here, and liked your, your, your Random Access knowledge base on so many.


Variable topics to be able to, like, find some connective tissue.


Sure, sure, chat with them about hell, there’s a topic.

I know 4% of talk about it and you me and you just go back to the best, but Nick Lachey was you, are you came in my ear and you go.

Oh my God.

Oh my God.

He just said, because we could hear what he was saying inside of the house, because the house was microphone, but I was in the front yard and then you came in my ear and go.


Oh my God.

He just said he just said to Jessica.

I think I’m going to have to fight this guy to get off my property.

You’re like going to the door and then I go Oh, knock it around.

Like, are you talking about fighting which, how on Earth would I heard that from the other side of the door?


And he was like, no.

No, no one there.

No, there will be no fighting today.


That was.

It was the adrenaline rush of of go behind a different level.

Like you get like I get mild versions of it doing sitcom, which is why I like doing sitcom someone.


Yeah, because you have a live, we’ll have a live audience and so there’s a mic and, you know a joke is this going to Leigh, and you don’t want to fuck it up because you have a live audience, it’s like doing a play, right?


So there’s a little bit of that same energy and you just get jacked off of that energy.



Before you go.

So there’s a little bit of that but I don’t think anything would compare to like the Mark is here.



Oh, yeah.

That was for everybody in the press.

The Mark is here.

Here we go.

We’re ready to go.

If he’s here.

He’s here.

He’s here.

That’s okay.

Okay, get it.


He is.

He’s right there.

Oh, well.

Oh, there’s a bogey.

There’s a poke.

Get the buggy out of here.


Somebody go.

Clear, the bugs Butler who’s like just the intense.


Mater of like pulling one.

Those things off.

I don’t think they were very exhilarating when they would end.

Oh, it was quite a high.

Yeah, I imagine.

It’s what being on stage yet, you know, in New York is like or something.

Yeah, but I think that you and I think you and I share this in common.


I think it’s a very human thing but now that you’ve been doing it now for so I guess 25 years.

You’ve been employed doing this right and a years.

Yeah as an Entertainer and I’ve now been doing it for 15 years or whatever and Again, I think it’s a human thing where it’s like I would have this goal and it was a goal that I didn’t even think was accomplishable or was just in the stratosphere of goals, and then I would get that goal.


And then the second I get that goal.

It’s immediately, fuck.

I need to do that thing and then and then I would get that thing.

And then now we got to do that thing and there’s people I had to be in there was like, I had to be, Will Ferrell at one point.

Like I had to be Adam Sandler, you know, like after Without a Paddle, my, my just my ego went, It’s just started projecting on what this could be, because this is already crazier than I thought was ever possible.


And then just as constantly, moving the goalposts.

Yeah, which I think is very human it for me.

It was a rough way to evaluate my life because I remember, in fact, I was talking to Kevin Smith and we were talking about movies and he was saying movies.


He directed that he loved.

That didn’t work in this and that, right?

And I was lamenting at that time.

The chips had made a bunch of money and And he said, which I just think is brilliant, like imagine you go back and you find twelve-year-old Dax and you tell Dax when you grow up you’re going to write and direct a movie for Warner.



He goes.

Do you think that 12 year old version of yourself at any point?

Would be like, what did it make right, you know what I’m saying?

Like you would not evaluate yourself by that yet.

I do that continuously, right?

Or I think I’m I’m inching closer to not doing that and it my life’s getting You know, exponentially better because of it, but do you think you’ve had that as well?


Where it’s like, you’re from fucking Iowa?

You end up on this huge hit TV show the 70s Show, right?

In your brain is like, but I gotta do this.

Yeah, yeah.


You do it and you can’t I don’t think you can help but do it.


I had a weird.

So when I was in college I and I was in this fraternity at one point.

They told us to write down what our life goals were uh-huh.

And write them down in your pocket and putting keeping your wallet.


Sounds like a nice fraternity.

That’s not what I associate for today’s with.

There’s a ton of stuff.

This is like, maybe the one Value Story that I’m That we can extract.

But I wrote down that I wanted to move to Hollywood and be on the big screen and and then that happened, right?


And then you’re like, oh and I carried it around in my wallet until the day it happened and then I wrote a new one which still hasn’t happened.

Yeah, win an Oscar.

You’re a different kind of actor.


So It’s weird when you start to hit those goals and I had a weird little, you know, you’re kind of like as an Entertainer your you’re balancing between the Commerce and the art all the time.


Then you’re kind of jumping back and forth and in and you know, a lot of people do this.

I could do one for them.

One for me thing, right?

Yeah, really.

How many people have the ability or exactly one for them?

One, for me?


I’m happy with either of those.

Yeah, like I’m happy to have it.

The next job.

Yeah, but in the last year, I got to the point where it was like the Commerce piece, didn’t so much matter.



Like I actually have like enough financial stability where I could kind of not work and be okay.

Yeah, and so.

So now I’m at a point where it’s like I have no excuses for it to not be craft and on and and it’s and I don’t know if I’m like exacting on that yet, but it’s a weird thing that do you think that Even even that is a is a lot a little bit ego.


So I have been in things that were really successful and then I was embarrassed by them.


Or like sure like Seth and I went to the first screen and without a paddle.

We thought we were making Diner in the woods.

I mean, we really did think that while we were having to see my boss’s daughter has.


No, I mean, I’ve got a laundry list.

Yeah, but we see, we see the movie and we’re like, oh my God, this is this movie is for Girls, this is a diner in the woods and they were like, we’re kind of embarrassed or whatever we are.

And then, the movie comes out and does well.

And then years later.

I’m like, in Ohio, Chris and I are riding my motorcycle from New York to Detroit.


We stopped at like, you know, a Best Western in Ohio and this woman comes out to me in the parking lot and she’s holding the Without a Paddle DVD.

And she goes, my, we’re on our Without a Paddle trip, my family every year, we go.


That’s why we’re here in.

Ohio, we go canoeing.

And we bring the movie and we watched the movie every day, and then we go.

And I was like that.


Absolutely blew my mind.

And then, I thought, how on Earth is that more relevant than having been in a movie that made six million dollars?

That got a nomination for an award.

Literally, the difference is my ego says, oh, my peers were the people.

I want approval from will like that, tiny Miyagi and at a certain point you have to question like what is one audience better to serve than another?


Yeah, so I don’t know that it’s about like serving one audience or the other.

I guess it’s doing what you, what movies you like.

Maybe it’s doing things.

I think for me the differences become doing things that have some level of social relevance that that is that, that have the potential to leave an imprint and change the way that people see something or think about something.



And so so like I’ll take the ranch as an example, right?

I don’t think anybody is going to look at the ranch on that Netflix and go.


That’s that is a that’s a highbrow piece of material.

Cereal, but there’s this giant underserved audience in the middle of America that doesn’t have shows made for it anymore.



And and so like if you there’s a reason why so many people watch Duck Dynasty.

There’s a reason why people watch.

I struggle hate Ducks.

Exactly what?

He’s mostly, they just want to see, that’s good.

But there was all this programming that I was noticing, it was on television, that, that was being directed at this audience.


That that Drastically underserved.

Yeah, and and my thought of going and doing a show like The Ranch is, you know, we tackled the subject of abortion, but we tackled it from the perspective of Middle America.


Yeah, which Where, It’s Not.

So Clean Cut and Clear, right?

Yeah, and there’s a viable valuable point on one side of the argument that is totally underserved in media across the board ferrite, which is, which is, you know, the right to life.



Yeah, and then and then you also have this pro-choice argument, that is represented in the show and it wasn’t so clean and clear and cut and cut that, you know, one was the more viable option right on the show.

Yeah, I know.

For me.

I have my own personal belief which, you know, you kind of have to put aside for the character that you’re playing.


Yeah, but like, being able to tackle a topic like that and in and play it out relative to what societal Norms are in different places, has a different social impact when you Come from it from the perspective of from a conservative perspective.


Well, I’m pro-choice but I a hundred percent get pro-life.


If you think that is murdering an actual baby at 2 months, if that’s what you believe.




You should fight Non-Stop and I totally get.

I personally don’t think that’s killing a baby.

But if you think that and I can certainly wrap my head around it, then, yeah, that should be your number one when you vote and everything else that well, probably govern all your decisions.


So I, So I look at it and I go I would agree with you and say I’m pro-choice but I can totally understand your argument of pro-life and I believe that for pro-life people to have a pro-life perspective for themself.

Hmm, is viable and valuable to have it for other people, you know, give them a choice of get, you know, everyone should have the right in some degree to govern their own choices about what they do with their own bodies.


Yeah, and so don’t you don’t have to take the choice away from other people to make that?

Choice for yourself.

Yes, and but, but being able to have I don’t, with in most public places.

You can’t have that argument today.

Well, you cuz it devolves so quickly into into an argument that is unsolvable.


Yes, and so being able to actually produce media that addresses these types of topics or that addresses Global Warming from the perspective of a Rancher.

Yeah or that addresses, you know, immigration from the perspective of a Rancher there it you know, being able to sort of do something like that has a diploid.


Is that political the radio show is?


Oh, okay.

It is in its undertones.


So in the story, top of the stories that we choose I think this season we’re going to look at potentially look at veterans and and just the sort of different skew on veteran health.

I would play a great bat like looking at me to go don’t know any screens that.


I mean, if you want I want to have gamma sin twice, entertain the troops.

I think, if you halfway there, if you want to come hang out, we might have a bacon center showed.

Okay, great, so I’ll do it so, so but but the point being That it’s it.

Like it doesn’t have to be the most high brow.


It’s like this is certainly not to serve the audience in Los Angeles or our peers in the entertainment business, but it has a social relevance.

That’s that’s different than other thing than just going off and doing a funny movie for funny sake.

Yeah, and I think like being like I’d love to tackle a movie about mental health.


Like I think that would be an interesting topic to take on.

I’d love to tackle a movie about, you know, privacy.

Which I think is an interesting topic and it’s really about like, for me at this point.

It’s about taking on pieces of work that actually have some level of social relevance around the topic that I care about.


Yeah, and I think that’s admirable, but I, when I’m thinking more about because I get in a lot of debates with actors who are generally is very accurate to be unhappy on the show here on, right.

There’s like, most actors I talk to their lamenting about some aspect of the show, they’re on, which is is crazy to me, right?


My job done it so it’s not like I can’t relate but it is funny when you think about for me.

It’s very clear because I don’t believe in God, right?

So I don’t think I’m going to go to heaven and reflect back on my life at any point and go like oh everyone loved you and blah, blah blah.


So for me, my life is really about what’s happening day to day.

While I’m here for the next 45 years for you, to be honest, being able to go to sleep at night.

That’s all I’m trying to do is just fucking go to get to the point.

Looking forward to dying so I can just sleep.

But um, you know, when you think about when you’re evaluating your career, which I think is just dangerous in general instead of just going like what I’ve observed about use.


I’ve gone to the 70 show.

I’ve watched you do the 70 show and then I’ve watched you at the curtain call, where your people are clapping about.

You, fucking love being on a sitcom, like, your you enjoy that?

Or at least the times I saw, I love my love live audience to play too.

Yeah, like it’s a blast, right?


The best in It should end there, right?

You shouldn’t I think that’s like all that really matters is like, what are you doing daily?

And what is that experience?

Like in your life is about these experiences and it’s not until your narrative self starts writing the book about Ashton and saying, well I should have been on Breaking Bad.


Yeah, I don’t do still do that.

No, I don’t do that.

But I have been you did at a time.

I have been on the sitcom that I didn’t enjoy being on.


Well, we it has to be Two and a Half Men because well, you’ve only been on three Right.

Well in the only reason that I struggle, I struggle with it is because I didn’t, I didn’t know what I was supposed to be playing, like, I was trying to upset it.


Like I was a very weird thing to experience, right?

Yeah, we swear.

I thought it was one thing going in and then it’s slowly became something else as I was on it.

And and it was, I love working with the people that I work with.

Because I did extraordinary group of people I was working with, but I didn’t know my character.


Like I wasn’t a hundred percent.

It, you know, when you when you when you have a character that you’re playing and you know what the characters Edge is like you kind of know what their vices are, right?

It’s you know how to lean every joke and it just becomes natural to wear to Lena joke.


I couldn’t quite I struggled every single day figuring out where to lean my jokes.


Yeah, on this character and I and I couldn’t find an edge for the character that was.

And so it was how many years did you do that?

Three like three years, but I found it hard.


And I wasn’t sure what the message of the show was like, you’re like, you’re like Kelso probably got easier and easier every year to play for to the point where it got boring.


Okay, and then, and that’s why I left the show was, I left the show two seasons before I think it was over, and it wasn’t about, I need to leave to go have some big movie career.

This is the time where I’m going to go because I probably would have made more money just staying on the show, right?

I just wasn’t interested in playing that character anymore because I played it for a while and and I knew I could have written it.


Right, like, I knew exactly what the next joke was going to be.

And I’m and, and it was, and I was re cycling material and the and it just got to a point where I was like, okay, I think I’m done doing like this.

Isn’t it?

Exciting and fun for me, right?

You’re all so young.

How old were you when you left 26?



Your three years of 26, you’re three years younger than me, which is depressing.

I was 26.

But yeah, I remember coming home.

Like maybe season 3 of Parenthood and saying to Kristen I think I’ve gotten so lazy or something because like I don’t I’m not doing anything now to do to be Crosby.


She goes.

Oh, no, hon.

That’s what being on the show is all about.

Like it just gets easier and easier and easier and then weirdly I’m getting better and better at it, doing less and less and less and thinking less, and less about it, which was I loved.

I could have died.

I feel like I could have done that for 20 years.

Yeah, I, you know, at this point I always go to my writing staff on the ranch down.


I’m like, write me a scene that’s hard for This character, uh-huh, like right meets something that is like hard for him to deal with him play, right?

So that I’ve got this.

So I have to think about do, you know, how would he react to that?

Do you think you are add a little bit?

Because you’re you have a ton of Pursuits, right?


You act.

You produce, but you also have this whole Tech thing you do.


And all this investing.

Do you think it’s cause you get bored easy?

Or do you think it’s, because Back to like our narrative or the things you want to accomplish because you want to be seen in some way.


So let me start.

I’ll start.

I’ll share first, just so you know, well, I know exactly where you guys, I grew up dyslexic.


I have this huge chip on my shoulder that everyone thinks I’m stupid.

So I’m almost insufferable.

Meanwhile, you know, what, all that’s why the more intelligent people.

And that’s what they show is called armchair expert, because I’m still compensating from going to special ed as a kid, and I just wonder if there’s anything in your past that Has you so driven like is it just pure curiosity and healthiness or is it?


Are you trying to know?

It’s absolute insecurity?

Okay, great.


That’s right.

That’s was hoping.

So, on his way more interesting to me.

I was, I go back and I watch Like the First episodes of That 70s Show, and I’m shocked.

I didn’t get fired.

I’m sure I was gonna get fired.


Didn’t know what I was doing.


I’m have a clue.

Like, I didn’t understand a joke.

Like, I didn’t understand sarcasm or you 19.


Yeah, and I really had no idea was and I was convinced.

I was going to get fired like convinced and in fact at one point in time, Terry Turner, like, grabbed me and pushed me up against the wall and was like, what are you doing to my character?


Why are you doing this?

And I’m like, I don’t know what I’m doing.

Like I rawness, I’m not in control of anything I do and I think this was like season 3, right?

This is at the moment where I started to gain a little confidence, right?

I was like, okay, I got this in and I was like, I’m getting fired, like, that’s it like a half and I was sure I was going to get fired.


So it’s like I’m starting to production company because at least And there’s a lot of downtime on a set in, you’re just kind of sitting around and yeah, and so.

So that was like step one and then I actually got fired from a Cameron Crowe movie.



So I had this interesting point probably a blessing.


I don’t know if it was a blessing for me from a work ethic perspective relative to how to build a character and everything else.

But so I was doing 70 show at the time and punked and I and I I booked this M Night Shyamalan movie.


Okay, and and and at the same time, which one the village?


So at the same time, I booked Elizabethtown when Cameron Crowe and I was like, I was like, holy shit like this.

Is it right?


Now I’ve now I’m now I’m going to be elite.


This is my leading man moment.

And I was like, do I do this M Night Shyamalan really quick.

Do you remember at that time?

Who the archetype was that you were that?

You wanted to?

Whose career at that moment, Tom Cruise Tom Cruise.

Okay, right to the top.

Jimmy Tong.

Gonna give me my own ever?

Like, that’s where I’m gonna.


That’s, yeah.

That’s it.

That’s great.

I said, well Pharaoh, so it’s the same shit.

Obviously, Tom Cruise.

That was Jim Carrey or guy feral animals.

Like when I was a kid, when I came, when I came out.

I wanted to be number shown on blanket of steam from Sam movie.


No God.

Why am I?

Blanket on this guy’s name.

I can’t believe.

I’m blanking was named Kirk Cameron.

Oh, I was like Kirk Cameron.

Yeah on like who’s the boss?

No, no full.

It was impossible as a growing pain, full boss, Growing Pains Kirk Cameron from Growing, Pains ice.


That was my so that was my like Fort 13. 12 year old self has like some day Kurt.

Yeah, that would be like the that laughs and then I had turned MC from Can’t Buy Me, Love Back Down.


Yeah, I was the boss.

I was all Kirk Cameron, Mike Seaver all day.


That was my, and so then, and that, and that, then I moved.

I was like, Tom Cruise.

This is the next level.

Yeah, and so I got this camera Crowe movie, and, and I had to turn down the M Night Shyamalan movie, and I don’t think Scott Rudin was very happy about that.


He produced the Shyamalan, right?

Okay, it which sucks because I think Scott rudin’s probably the best producer in the entire.

So and I don’t think at that point, I don’t think I never got a chance to work with him again.

Yeah, it was some day.

Maybe I’ll just be like I think I should have done your mood.

So I started working with Cameron on this thing and we were doing rehearsals and he kept videotaping me while I was doing the rehearsals and I was like, what are you video?


Don’t make me very nervous.

It, I was getting very nervous and he was like, I want to I want to show you the things that you’re doing that.

I want you to that.

I like and I’m okay and, and we were just in rehearse like, you know, You know, you’ve memorized any of this sounds like we’re not shooting and he’s like, well, yeah, but we’re rehearsing and so you need to get it like get and I was like and I had a lot going on in my life and and and with the show and this and that and my own social life and everything else.



Yeah, and I was sort of pseudo focusing on it, but not really like I was like, I’m going to show up and play it.

Yeah, not like I’m going to really prepare it and do the work to get ready to perform this care and I got fired.

Could I ask you a quick question?

Do you think was there any part of you that?


Was afraid, you weren’t going to be able to execute this so you weren’t giving it a hundred percent.

Do have some kind of excuse at some.

No, it totally wasn’t that it was that I didn’t know how to prepare right to do this kind of work.


Like I had, I would you like I didn’t, I know it’s not on the back.


I’d never taken an acting class.

I’d never done nothing.

Like and I didn’t have an acting coach and so and I was just not and every other role.

I played a kind of showed up and just did what came to me and that moment and that was what I and and I didn’t know what.

I really didn’t know how to prepare and I got fired and then I was like it’s over.


Yeah, right.

And so then I’m like double down on everything that’s not acting because you might never work again, right?

And I was pretty sure at that point that I wasn’t going to work again and you’re embarrassed right and embarrassed and I got fired the other day.

I was I had about half hour ago a number but I was also like I was way too cocky and way too arrogant and way to sure that I I had already got there, right?


Yeah, and so then I just was like I’m just going to double down on this production stuff and in doing that, I started finding an interest in technology because I want to defend you for half a second here, because in, I like to use Bill Clinton as an example of this.


So people are shocked at Bill.

Clinton was getting blowjobs Oval Office and stuff.

And I say, well, if your entire life, all the all the data, you’ve collected thus far, is every time they told me something couldn’t happen or I couldn’t do.

I think I did it right.

Like to say, you’re going to be the governor of Arkansas at his age.


No one had done that, so then he doesn’t use.

Oh, I guess, I guess what they told me is not true.

I can do this.

And then, oh, you’re going to become the president after getting fired.

Is the governor.

Then be the governor.

Again, then become, you know, your whole life.

All this evidence you’ve collected is like, oh, don’t listen.

They’re not right.


I’m do, I am them end up doing all this stuff, right?

And so yeah, you think you can get away with a blowjob in the Oval Office.

I would imagine similarly.

You were doing fucking great all the evidence you had collected at that point as a young dude, was no, if I try, it’ll work out and I’ll have some success.


Yeah, if I show up on the day and it’s like you had stumbled from not putting in the work up to that point.

So, how are you supposed to just through?

Osmosis know that I, I did, I didn’t know and I there wasn’t really a way to know and until you and tell ya and then I fucked up and then I but then I got it.


Like at that point.

I was like, oh my God.

Yeah, and and and that’s when I started working on my acting like, where I was like, wait a second.

If I actually want to take this serious, I have to work as an actor to get better as an actor, right?


Like, you know sense of worked with the acting coach is and I’m you know, read tons of books on acting like learned about acting but yeah, before I literally showed up and put whatever I had in the room and that was enough.


And so that was a good move, but it also made me.


Double down on other things.

And so, I started focusing on for my production company.

I saw buffering speeds, were getting faster and faster for online video.

And I was like, wait a second.

This is the next like white who needs TV, right?

And then I found Twitter and started finding a bunch of other things that I thought were interesting and started investing in it really quick.


Cuz I remember stopping by one time.

I think to Catalyst to your your company.

You have a cool building.

You still have it.

I got rid of the company.

Okay, I don’t worry.

It ain’t right.

You had a really cool space and I stopped by there.

And I think you were saying, oh on this day of every month, this room is a think tank and I get all these designers and programmers and they come in here and we kind of think tank and I remember thinking that you are very unlikely mascot for that group for Silicon Valley guys, because if I’m a Silicon Valley guy feel like I would hate you because you’re gorgeous and you’re tall.


How is it?

Why is it that they They accepted you like that.

I imagine them, like, I showed up, like I imagined Paul Giamatti being huge in that Community where he could have a thing, because he’s one of them that got through here.

I was just because you reached out first.


No, I, I was like one of the first people that I would fly up there to meet them.

Go to these gigantic Tech conferences.


And not sit on a panel, be an expert, right?

Not judge anything, uh-huh.

Like The expert you were there to learn.


I was just there and I would sit down and I would take 20 meetings in a day, with every single person in this.

How are you even getting those meetings?

Like some?

I so I hired somebody, so I went to one of these things and I found this woman named Sarah Ross.

That was that basically brought in all the companies to this, TechCrunch disrupt, TechCrunch, 50 at the time.


And and I hired her to run my digital Division and she knew every one of them out, right?

And She just started, you know, connecting you reaching out and going.

Hey, this guy wants to, he wants to meet with, you.

Just want to learn.

He just wants to talk to you and get some advice and I and I just went started asking everyone for advice.


There was no party you because I imagine myself in that scenario, and and I would be trying to let them know.

Just how much I understand in their world.

You were able to not do that and just be a student.

I didn’t understand.

I mean, I was, first of all, I went to school.

Did you try to impress him at all?


Well, I went to school for Biochemical engineering.

Yeah, and so I had some engineering cred, right?

Like I understand programming language.

I don’t write code but I understand it.

Okay, I understand how it works.

I understand.


I read tons of books and learn, you know, how a computer works and learned how like, I actually understand a lot of these basic things and I and I think that part of where I connected with folks was on products, On understanding what people would intuitively do and why they would do it.


Yeah, and and based on what was the, what was the optimized want of Any Given page or screen?


Like, what do you what do you want people to do on this page or right?


And I could understand the feeling of that.


Yeah, and I think that from a product sensibility is standpoint.

There were certain little things that I would look at and I would go well, why wouldn’t you Move this here and do that in order to get people through this funnel this way.


And people go.

Well, that’s actually that’s actually a decent idea.



And once I gained a little bit of credibility with a couple people then they became at spread, they became the tenants for me to build relationships with other people can do.

He’s actually a pretty good product guy and thinks about this stuff the same way.

Yeah, I think about this stuff.


And so so that was that was the way that I am and I have that in the automotive world, but there’s no way to make money on it.


Well, You sure they’re well yet to be seen.

I mean there’s certainly could be right.

Yeah, but I know what you’re saying, I guess what I’m saying is, when I’m out the sand dunes, the dudes are like, no, he’s a real Gearhead.

Like I get past, you can make gives me, makes me feel great.

But yeah, so and he can really build a nice, so not.


So here’s the thing.

So, once you get the real Gearhead cred from one guy, he introduces you to another real Gearhead.

Craig guy in another one.

And then in the next thing, you know, you actually build a pretty strong network of folks.

Yes, so, then that but you are uniquely good at Because you have a good track record.


I have been invited as you get invited when you’re on TV to go to the launch of some app and or maybe to invest in it and I literally go, I have no idea what people would want to use as a nap II.

Don’t use many apps.

I use Postmates because I like getting food delivered to my house.


That’s about it.

So I can’t even begin to like, when when Uber was explained to me.

I thought, who the fuck doesn’t want to drive.

That’s how egocentric my point of view is.

I’m like, I would never want to have some guy Drive.

Me around her.

That’s why I passed on it the first time I saw it.

Oh, yeah.



Because you can same thing.


I was saying I love guy, Tony Shea who invented Zappos, uh-huh, loves apples, who had this party bus that at South by Southwest during Tech week that he would drive around and everybody would get drunk on and Travis, who was a former CEO was only he’s pitching me.


This thing.

I was like, what’s get picked up in a black car.

Like, yeah, kind of like gross to get dropped off by like, they’re like, and I was like, no, I did.

That makes it a pass on it and they’ll get your later.

I was like, I realized that the Uber X Factor where it was going to be Priuses and it was going to be this.


And yeah, I was like, oh democratized, I get it.

And then, and then I understood it, and then I invested it.

But like, yeah, at first, you’re just like, but most of these like, really big Ideas, seem crazy at first.

Yeah, and then you start to identify crazy.


Well, I would imagine you get this because I’ll get super jealous because I’ll hero Essence it.


Yeah, hehe.

He’s into four square and he does this and then I start I’m jealously thinking like well, I should be doing that too.

And I think a lot of our peers start thinking that right and then when they when you run into people they must either want to be a part of that or they want to know how you got to be a part of that.


Do you find that?

I find that there are a lot of people that are.

I’ve seen fared you that.

I think for the most part, right?

I mean I see you, I don’t really even know but I think there are a lot of people that are now trying To move into the investing space.

Yes, and it’s like, you know, I mean listen, it’s hot, it’s hard.


A lot of work and we have and most are losers, right?

The vast vast majority and then you’re trying, you’re investing in a hundred things.

So that to work and cover all your losses.

Yeah, and so you got to be, you have to a have enough money to hang around for a hundred and two.


You have to have the sort of diligence to find the two that are going to cover for the other hundred now.

What is this done for your self-esteem?

Knowing that you have done?

Well, in this industry, completely outside of ours, I’ll start with the example.


Every time Kristen, I go I have the same pattern, we get invited the Golden Globes or the Academy Awards or whatever.

It is leading up to it.

I go.

Oh my God.

I don’t want to go to that thing.

They’re all going to be going.

Why is that dude from Punk’d here wide, who let him in.

This is what my voice in my head’s telling me, right?


And then we go to these things and it turns out like, oh, I know a lot of these people and they seem to like me.

I’m pretty sure they liked me on the way home.

I always go.

That was really fun.

I think people liked me.

I hope I remember that the next time we get invited but I don’t I go through the same process, right of.

Why will he be here?

We’re so I want our 20 years deep now.


Yeah, you actually do know.

Most guys, I do.

I you gotta be over that by now.

I am, I am.

I’m getting over that but I do imagine having succeeded in something outside of our thing.

Would just make me feel Little more confident when I’m at those things.

Is that a part of your self-esteem now or you go?


My thing was always as a backup career case, my acting thing fails.

All right.

And by the way, at some point, like a lot of act your age out and like, what?

Yeah, you know, I’m sure 50% of the reason why I get any role as relative to how I look.

And and when that goes like them what right and what, you know, what seems to be sticking around, I’ve got this ready and hairline, you know about it.


Well, this is what I ask you about that because you’ve gone off or Propecia.


I just completely off the whole risky of you.

I don’t know what I want to connect.

Can I out us for this?

I just want to say that we all just say I went to a doctor, I had heard that there was this doctor who could give you a hair is thick as Brad Pitt’s and he would he would stab you in the head repeatedly with a syringe and he would inject, God knows what you know, chicken egg serum or something.


And I was going to this guy and I was doing it for like a two years or something.

I was like.

And then finally I was like, what am I doing?

And I’m going, this guy’s jabbing my head with a needle and nothing’s happening.

And but I did do that.

There’s this.

I I’ve participated in all in all of us, that anything will.


No, I will.

I think we both went to this job.

I can’t recommend the guide you.

And then my, my whole thing was, remember, I didn’t like they would put a numbing spray on your head, and I got off on the fact that was like, no numbing spray.


I felt I felt to see enough to even be there getting this thing done.


I thought I did the only bit of masculinity, I could retain his that I’d go numbing spray.

I’ve gone off of anything to recruit retain.

So when I was, I started getting very concerned when I was about 25, that is that it was going.


Yeah, it’s going - and I’m 25.


I’ve got my image, you know, they’re happening taint.

Yeah, and sorry.

That’s when I went on the Avodart and then and I started to go see the guy that we did the needle, stab your head and I was just like in about, I think like five years ago or so.

I was like, I can’t I can’t do the gotta get up the tread like I can’t do the guy who was, so I stopped doing the guy and I was like, oh I’m hanging in there.


Yeah, right.


And then when I had kids, I didn’t know what the side effects of this Avodart stuff were relative to like having children.

And I was like, you know what?

I don’t want to risk it.

I’m just gonna suck.

So I stopped, and I did really good for like a year.


And then it just now.

It’s starting to like, you know, been announced that.


But here’s so.

What’s the solution more hats or back on Avatar?

No, I’m not.

I’m just, you’re never gonna go back.

I’m no, I’m just so here’s what so reckless.

So here’s what happened.

I’m still on it, by the way, I went in and, and I quit using And I went into my doctor in my testosterone levels were like alarmingly low, and it’s because I quit using the stuff.


So this interesting because it is a testosterone inhibitor Propecia an avatar.


So the HT.


So yeah, so removes the DHT, which is a byproduct healing starts from which actually kills the follicles.

So it removes it.

So your body in response to the makes more makes more testosterone because your body’s using DHT for something you knows.


We still don’t know what.

So so your body starts dumping more and more testosterone.

So then you go off of it, right?

And your body goes.

Oh, I don’t need all of this test on.

Yeah, I was.

And so then he HD jumps your testosterone into the cellar, which then keeps your hair for a really not really nice for like a year, right?


Because now you have drastically.

Reduce testosterone, right?

Right, right.

So then gradually States tiny and healthy and gradually your testosterone levels.

Start to increase and then the hair starts to get.

So now I’m at the hair.

To go, but I’ve actually become comfortable with that as well.



I’m just go with this so healthy.

Well, I got kids now.


Well, that’s what I was gonna I want to ask you about because a lot of these, like kind of existential crises that I’ve dealt with, and you’ve dealt with, in my ego and my self-esteem, all these things.

I was attempting to to elevate my own opinion of Myself, by a lot of outward, kind of accomplishments.


And then to my surprise, this thing, having kids.

He’s really gave me all the perspective.

I needed where I feel like I’ve just gotten so much happy over the last five years and your wife and my wife.

I’ve done a couple movies together.

Well, I think they’ve done three movies together, but we were all down in Louisiana and New Orleans, New Orleans.


And you were a new father and I was so delighted to see what a great dad you are and how involved you are and that you’re down there just to watch the kids.

So Mom can work, which is why I’m On there too.

So it was really awesome to be sharing that same role and I could see that it was doing the same thing to you.


That it was doing to me, which was just like, happiness self-esteem being of service.

Now, I realize what my if they’re good Life’s good.


Yeah, what would you say that these kids one for you?

Yes, how they made?

You kind of recalibrate what it is.


You’re even after in life.

Well, so that’s that’s probably the biggest, the work-life balance that had to completely shift.

Shift, right?


I’ve been a workaholic my entire life and all and I if if you leave me to my own devices, I’ll work from the moment.

I wake up until the moment.

I fall asleep and I’ll fall asleep working and and that’s that.


I’ve lived that life for a fair amount of time.

Now with kids.

I you know, wouldn’t Mila’s shooting a film?

I don’t work.


So I legitimately go to wherever she is and wherever she shooting moved the whole family.

Yeah set up the kids get him on a schedule.


Get you know, and I’m at home.

Making sure they get fed.

Make sure they go to bed at night.

Make sure you wake up in the morning, make sure the dress and cleaned and bubble and and that’s a lot of fucking work.

Oh, yeah, and I was like, that’s a Workaholics drink.

Yeah, because you can sever ever stop.

You can service your kids all day long if you want to MMM.


And so as I say, they’re all there in a constant state of either creating a mess or I’m picking up the mess.

You know, I’m saying?

There’s no, there’s no homeostasis.

There’s no neutral none.

Yeah, and and and So for me, I think that the biggest thing with the kids has been now three years in learning how to back off a little bit.


And go, we don’t have to be there.

Every second, every moment of every day.

In fact, it probably behooves them to spend time with other people occasionally church, and not have me picking up.

Everything in town is and so their daughter go to preschool.

She does.


Yes, she does.

Yeah, and so that’s been like a really good balancing.

But also I think just like it made me, it made me in work, go have to take a step back and go.

I wear the moments of work that I’m vital.

So what are the things that I can that I can give up the responsibility for give to somebody else to do.


It’s almost like moving into like a CEO role of my work delegating.

Yeah where I’m delegating work to other folks to do that are things that I don’t have to do and getting really comfortable with them doing it their way as opposed to Ooh, them doing it my way.

Yes, because I can’t micromanage it and oversee it.


So I think I’ve become a much more efficient with my work and much more effective with my work as a result of the kids.

Yeah, and and in a sense like had the confidence now that I go whoa, if it doesn’t really matter, I’m not going to do it because that’s time.


I could be spending with my kids and that and to me that’s the biggest like I have where you go like this really Matter like do I really give a shit about doing this thing that I’m doing?

Yeah, because I could be spending time with my kids.

So well, yeah, I think it right sizes.

All of your preoccupy, you know all the things you think about our dream about our focus on or aim towards it really.


Reduces the importance of those things in a very healthy way.

I think.


And whatever Hobbies I’ve had because I was really afraid to have kids and Kristen was too because I was thinking oh, well this this all my career Pursuits take up so much time.

I don’t know how I have time for and I haven’t accomplished a lot of things.


I’m trying to accomplish.

So I where on Earth did these kids fit in?

And for me, it was ironic that I ended up doing way more stuff professionally since having kids than I did before having them yet.

I just did it in a different way.


I don’t know how you direct a movie with kids.


Well, it was great.

I’ll tell you what was great about that is we were shooting in the wintertime 95% of the script was exterior.

So we shot while the sun was up and down and the sun goes down at four o’clock.

So even during The whole production of chips, I put them to bed every single night.

I was at the Halloween party, God’s humble.


And that was just a crazy blessing.

Something I would now know to to, to design an advanced.

Like, oh, I’m going to, it’s all outside and I’m going to do it when there’s no daylight and tough shit and we just need more days.

Yeah, but yeah.

Decisions like that, that you learn to make.

I think the, I think it just shifts, but a focus and it shifts priorities.


And and I the other, the only thing that I’ve sacrificed relatives who it is Hobbies.



My hobbies have gone to like pot, like, I can’t Wait, until they’re old enough to go snowboarding, right?

Yeah, like, well, I got fishing Lincoln rides a motorcycle already either.

Yeah, that’s because I need to do that.


Yeah, and and I need to be with her and I also need to be off-roading a lot.

Yeah, that’s sofas.

Gotta join me.

Yes, so getting the kids to the age where they can actually, like, I don’t golf but I started to teach my daughter how to golf because it like for a sports go.

I think like a lot of the sports that I do.


Now, in 10 years.

I’m not gonna be able to.

Oh, yeah.

Well, I have friends who golf on my.

Are you fucking crazy?

If I told Kristin, I was leaving on Saturday real.

Ours or I think there’s other four points on the way they do it.

Would never ever, ever say that we both had like yeah see - she know me.


She was going to do some for five hours of fabulous to talk.

Yeah, we know we did this to get we made this mess together.

I can barely watch the football.

I know it can’t be done.

You can’t do.

I was on fantasy football leagues before I had kids, I got no way now I do I play but I don’t I mean I play based on like data like I’m not even like one in it and thank God the Bears had an awful season because there was no chance.


I was watching a full game.

Game, yeah, like it was just like, you know, you got the lion, so it’s there’s no point once in a while by side between our two teams.

Like that’s the perfect, like I watched the first three games, like it, really.

And now it’s playoffs and maybe I’ll catch a game or two.


I only get to see a game as if we go to a friend’s house who also have kids and that dad’s got more pull than I do and he’s allowed to watch football piggyback on the it is.



I think you and I are both in a situation, you not as much as me but I got to say is for the Ali.

Go like to be, to be married to someone who’s very successful and works a lot.

And and having to take a role that’s may be unconventional it in the male-female dynamic.

Like my wife makes more money than me and that’s that.


Like, so I know if one of us has to stop working to do, it’s logically would be me.

It’s and that’s an interesting.

I think ultimately I’m Grilli grateful that it’s that way because I can’t rest on my Laurels.

I can’t be the dad’s like, well, I’m paying for all this shit and that’s why there’s food.


On the table, so I’m going golfing, that’s not happening.

I house.

I am 50/50 income family, 50/50 parenting family and I still get away.

I probably like, for me to say I’m truly 50/50 would do a disservice to my wife.

I’m probably, it’s probably 60/40.


Uh-huh, but like improbably - to, what do I know?

It feels like 50.

Well, I see a radically.

I’m 50/50 but it is.

It’s so cute.

Could you see also taking advantage a little bit?

If your wife did nothing.

Don’t you feel like you could imagine imagine myself going?


Well, I can’t get up.

I can’t get up because I got a fucking pay for all this shit.

Resaca told you, I can’t say I can’t say that either.

I don’t have that card.

I’m like fuck wit will be fine.

Your wife could say, then quit because we’ll be fine.


Yeah, you had all live on her.


We can’t.

So we can’t and some don’t but it’s actually like it’s a weird.


It’s at first, it’s slightly damask elating, you know in a weird way like you gotta wrestle with it like you got to put some time into thinking about it’s not Will actively emasculating, but it but it but it is in a way because you have a frame of reference of male hood.


That is your father and my father worked, my mom worked to my dad worked and it was probably making the most the most amount of money for, for a period of time, for sure.

Yeah, and I remember, when my parents actually flipped where they were both working and my mom, I think was making more than my dad, but I don’t think the shift happened, they have divorced.


Because of it.

Yeah, is that what happened?



I don’t know if it was because of it, but I think the surest later on probably did.

But there’s a weird thing that you got, you know, I don’t have a male figure that I know, and look up to that took on this role.

Yeah, it’s so I’m in.

Yeah, right.

I’m inventing the role as I go and, and, you know, rolling around in the Bjorn and getting confident.


We get on your chest.

Yeah, is it different deal?

And it’s a, but I think we’ll or Kristen regularly has to go like get them out of my sight.


I’m doing an interview.

Like I’m the I’m in that position that I only know from 50s housewives on TV where I’ve got to keep them away from mom so she can work.


So I roll back, you know, I go back to Iowa and there’s in and we were just back for Christmas and I have a couple of my cousins who had the traditional, sure game going and a couple my cousin’s where the guy’s actually taken a different active role.

And so I think it’s generational and I think it’s only going to become increasingly General.


Yeah, but It’s definitely we don’t have a role model for this.

That’s true.

And and so so there was either the deadbeat dad or the other.

But yeah, there was no, it’s so learning on the Fly, the 50/50 household responsibilities thing is a it’s a real thing.


Yeah, and I can, I can when I’m in self-pity mode, I can it’s very Mal.

It’s like this is bullshit.

I should be fucking golfing and especially we got big asshole friends that are golfing like I’m I not golfing.


I’m holding.


I I’m gonna go, we say I’m about to ask permission to go fishing.

Yeah, and it’s also for me intertwine with just money.

Like, who’s this occupies?

This huge space in my brain.

That’s preposterous because either one of us is making plenty enough money for a family of four.


Sure yet.

We need more we, I we need, you know, whatever.

Again, I move the goal.

Post every fucking time, you know, I need x amount and it’s Preposterous, and I’m only putting myself through all this, because I keep moving.

The goalposts, get everything, you know, having been in a family with two largely ambitious.


People is a constant negotiation.

Yeah, and and it’s it’s this weird.

I went to a therapist once and I was talking about relationship and like an accident, like you thought you were walking into.


I was somebody’s.


I got asked to go see if they’re honest with someone and it was a relationship therapist and There was a weird thing that the therapist said like this.

He laid it on.

He was like listen that person that you’re with is your number one.


And so if they’re not okay with you doing something then it’s not okay.

Hmm, or if they and so it was this way.

He phrased it much better than that and insomuch as that checking in and making sure that they’re okay, that you go do whatever it is you’re gonna do is actually as important as anything that you’re going to do and vice versa.



Yes, but checking something off with somebody.

It feels emasculating in a weird way because it’s, I think we’re stuck with some pretty outdated conventions.

That’s just tough shit.



And so and so you learn it and you get really comfortable with it and then you start and you’re from Iowa and I’m from Michigan and I’m from a blue collar area of Michigan.


And I think you and I I’ve noticed we both have some like we have some strong masculinity things.

Yeah, like where I grew up like if you drove a fucking pick up, With 44 inch monitors, you were crushing.

Yes, and that’s really what you need to do.


And you need to lay a dude out on a little lame are need a lift kit on that dumb bitch.

Those were the thing if you had been in a fight in one.

Yes, that was probably no needed to keep fighting till you one want that, was it?

Yeah, so I still have not shaken a lot of my like archaic kind of masculine, you know, the way I define whether I’m succeeding as a human is still way to mass.


I found that plane a hyper masculine character that helps helps because I get it all out.

Like I’m, you know, like cracking a beer at like, you need to do on this show, just really plays into like, get it out on the screen and then come home and then and then and then actually and then be a patsy.


Well, when I was last directing modern, let’s call it modern when I was driving and chips, you know, you’re in a situation where when you’re the director, you your opinion is the number one opinion, also.

Yeah, you’re going to decide if you like that at it or you’re going to decide if you like these costumes, whatever it is.


And I remember why I was editing chips.

So that took seven months.

I would be driving home from Warner Brothers and I’d have this fucking conversation with myself every drive home, which is you’re going to walk in the door and you’re not the director of this house and your opinion is not more valuable than anyone elses and that’s how it is.


And you better get your head straight before you walk in the door because you can be insufferable to live with.

If you’re you’re used to you have this Persona during the day.

Then you come home, and you got to really shift gears.

Yeah, or I had to shift gears.

Well, on, on the show.

I’m the executive producer of the show.


And when I hear opinion, count, when I sit in my staff meetings, for my investment fund.

I’m the general partner.

I’m, I am mindful.

I’m the last line of defense for a yes, or no, on an adventure.

Everybody’s you have literally, no, you have veto power.

I’m being briefed and getting information and then making decisions based on the collective briefing, you know, and there is a, you know, Collective, Decision-making process.


But at the end of the day, the buck stops.

You can.

You can veto anything, right?


And so there’s a week that your is a full-blown gearshift.

And by the way, my wife has the same thing like when she’s on a movie set.




The star of the movie, right?

And so or and she runs her own production company.


Is so when she’s running her production company.

She’s key man.

Number one in the production company.


And while there is everybody has a say she is and so we both come home and they’re a couple Alpha and we’re both out of bleep animals.

And we will talk about where we should eat dinner and we Alf out on each other sometimes will it’ll just be like or we’re both.


So tired of making decisions that we want the other person to ever do the, like, where we going to eat dance.


That’s that’s a rough its nightly.

It’s what do you want to eat with us?


I don’t you know, I don’t like to cook and I like to order out have all these.

I have all these like Vesta July, you know, like growing up we never ate out, you know, what restaurants, so it’s like Red Lobster on a Yeah, I see ya.


In fact, we went to Red Lobster to times growing up.

It was both times.

My mom had left, whatever, stepdad we had.

We would like go to the Sheraton Hotel, go to Red Lobster.

And I was like, okay, we’re leaving Rick.

So, that’s going on.

Yes, so I still have in my head.

I have like to me the definition of success is like you can eat.



Fuck you want I still feel like that.

Why would?

Why would God?

And we can afford it.

This is great.

So I finally explain, I was building furniture at At our house, we ordered a bunch of Furniture online and had to build it all over the holiday.


And I had explained to me and I was like, you know, how you like to cook like how that’s actually a thing for you.

You enjoy doing that.

I like putting stuff together.


So this is my this is my version of cook and you get to sit in that chair.

I get eat your food.

You get to sit in this chair when I’m done and you can hang out on this picnic table and be super stuff.


And so we had this like great, you know, five years in like it was like a sort of like Mia Copa on the like Building stuff.

Yes, we have that, like I’m managed and I’ll bring it up all the time.

Well, I’m managing the cars.

Like you don’t ever think about whether that things had an oil change or whatever.


That’s on me.

I got you.

Go ahead and I do that once every three months.

So you go ahead and cook every night.

There were Square.

It’s great.

But I totally agree with you.

Like two things.

It was staying in hotels that had swimming pools.


That was a very big.

That was a, that was a celebration going to a restaurant or even McDonald.


Oh, yeah.


It’s like big time.

And so now anytime where you can you’re like, let’s get let’s put up.

Every time I order a pizza.

I think made it.

I really do.

Oh my God, I’ll fucking put Ham on it.

I’ll put pepperoni.

I’m not even worried about what that is for and the other one for me is ice cream, ice cream is.


So in that Village camp like going to Dairy Queen when I was a kid with the real deal.

You know, what?

Yeah bought Dairy Queen because he loved it so much.

Oh really out of it.

I’m obsessed.

And there’s no Area Dairy Queen around here now, but I am obsessed with ice cream because that was like a privilege.


Yeah, your aunts.

And so now I can’t I’ll eat ice cream, virtually every night.

I think 90% of the stuff I’m doing in life is really.

I’m still trying to medicate whatever thing I wanted as an eight-year-old, you know, like I have all these cars because I didn’t have a GT bike and that’s what I really wanted.

It’s just, it’s ridiculous and I never die.


Never go ahead with the, with the, with the for handlebars is spun all the way around.

Yeah, the rotor.

I’ll yeah freestyle.


Eggs on the backyard.

Yeah, yeah, you haven’t you got a mongoose.

Me too.


At a super Goofs.

I didn’t even kids had harro’s and they had Hutches and all this is as far as we’re so bad at.



Oh my God, white and red.

They can do, you know, Andrew Pinay.

So we got this producer enterpreneur, who’s one of my best friend’s, I walk into his garage like a year ago in the garage door opens, and I’m about to enter his house and he has a fucking brand-new Chrome, GT BMX bike and I go what is going on with this bike.


I was but I know, right?

I saw it.

Like, that was the bike.

I watched the way we sat there, I go.

You gonna ride.

And he goes no.

And I’m like, we just sat there staring at this color on.

You might like jump on the pegs and like try to do, you know, I know stared at it like it was the fucking Shroud of Turin.


I couldn’t believe like what I was looking at is if it had been lit by a 10K, it just looks so beautiful and I thought I gotta go.

When I go home.

I got to order one of these bikes just to stare out of my garage, not even to ride.

It’s just the best.

I’m still, I’m still.

Yeah, now he who dies with the most toys wins.


The last thing I want to ask you about is because you have kids, and I have kids.

It’s almost like for me, it kind of you can’t help but kind of go back through your own childhood because you have these kids and your, I am constantly comparing like what their experiences to what mine was like, I’m always worried.


I’m like, Jesus Christ.

They live in a house with a swimming pool there from Hollywood.

What does that mean?

Like, I have a hard time, wrapping my head around all that stuff, but they don’t think about parenting, and, like, how much time I was getting and how hard my mom worked and unavailable, all these things, and I was thinking about your story and I was thinking, I have to imagine you have twin brother, Michael.


And he had an older sister and an older sister and he had medical conditions when you were kid, and I have to imagine that that had to have taken up a ton of the time attention, and resources growing up.


Did it.

Yeah, so when I can imagine also feeling super fucking guilty, at the same time.


My brother was born with mild cerebral palsy, right?

And so he was always, it was always cardiomyopathy you.

He had a cardiomyopathy when he was 12 and then had a had a heart transplant and it was yeah.


It he took up a ton of energy because of that.

Yeah, in very early, which is probably before I could kind of record it, right?

And then when he went through it, when we, when he had Transplant.

That was a that was like and it was right around right after my parents got a divorce.


And so it was like it was there was like right around the same time.

So that was there was definitely a ton of energy that was going his way relative to that.

Yeah, I think like so it did two things.

They did.

You feel guilty that here you guys are twins and he’s going through all this stuff and you’re not or were you just so when I was this, when I want my ID, I didn’t know.



I just had my best friend.

That was with me and I didn’t even really recognize.

As that he had any thing less than I had when I was a kid.

I and then it wasn’t until we started like playing basketball and things like, and I’m kind of always win.



And it was like this sort of litmus of, you know, and then and then I became extremely defensive of him to share attacker to like.

So he would get nervous.

You guys would enters you entered school together, right?


So we’re in the same grade, the same way, the whole Wayne sink last a ton of points, so we had like, You know, when he like I remember in junior high like he was like started problems with the wrong kid, and the kid like came out from after school was going to fight him.


And I knew that if he fought him like like if he did hit him anywhere near his chest, like it blow up and because he was it, and I was like, all right, I gotta fight this kid for it.

You know, it’s like that kind of and that was my mentality, but there was also a I think the most significant thing that happened is when I was like 23 or four and he said to me, you know, every time that you feel sorry for me.


You make me less.

Mmm, and he said the only life I’ve ever known as this one and so don’t make it less than then mine.

Wow, and I was like, whoa, like that’s just there was a huge was a massive wake-up call because my whole life I realized at that moment that I felt bad.



And felt.

Sorry and guilty.

Whole life for the fact that my brother was going through this and I wasn’t.


And so I it flipped a switch for me relative to not just my brother but to every all these people you are maybe no to everyone, right?


So in any, like, if I see a homeless person on the side of the road feeling, sorry for that person, makes them less and in their life, like, I can have compassion and I can have care.

But it’s very Compassion and Care is very different than feeling.

Sorry for pity.


Well, in a sense it is like, feeling.

Sorry for someone whose is it is a nice way of saying.

Pity it is.


I have these debates with Kristen and it’s not and it was a weird shift in the way that I see the world and see people and and I and you know, at the same time I always, I had this like because we are kind of lower middle class.


I had this weird growing up this Rich people were in some ways evil.

Yeah, right.

You live a huge class.

It was a fair.

Yeah, like Shake.

I had this issue with rich people.

Yeah, me too.

And so then becoming a they were the ones looking down on us.



As if as if it was like working, I felt like that you felt like it was and then and now that I have some wealth, I have it shifted a perspective there as well where I like, I’m not like I don’t look down on anyone like it.

This is amazing.

Yeah, wherever you know, and whoever’s life.


Is whatever it whatever I think I’m better than you.

It certainly has nothing to do with how much money I have David.

Yeah, and and so there’s this there’s There’s a different there’s a level of empathy that I think I developed as a person because of the situation, my brother had and the obstacles that he faced that I didn’t.


And now a level of respect that I have that’s relative to it.

And and at the same time I realized that from a very young age from having a twin that everything in my life is to be shared and then it’s better when it’s shared.



And so that was another like just functional sort of thing that I’ve drawn from it and so it like probably yeah, certainly like one of the most impactful things in my life and in relative to my kids.

I was actually thinking about this just a couple weeks ago.


I was like The trauma of my brother’s heart.

Transplant was so influential to my life and so influential to who I am as a person.

I wonder what their trauma will be.

Yeah, because I was just going to say I have to imagine that your desire for attention or certainly my desire from it for attention was middle child way overextended mother like I just fucking I didn’t get it.


I needed it.

I needed it.

And I’ve been on a endless Pursuit for attention ever since and I have to imagine that you are on a similar journey.

I did it because I in junior high and people laughed and people.

I did something.


Yeah, it’s like what ya lookin.

Well, they actually looked at you on interrupted for probably a half hour, which was probably, it was run like that.

Just having that undivided attention.

Yeah, just yours.


Was like, what?

Like I was like, yeah, Superdrug for sure, because it didn’t matter in, you know, same thing with sports like playing football.


Nothing like having that undivided.

Like like it was theirs.

There was a power in that.

Yeah, feels good.

But I agree.

I think what on Earth’s going to be the engine for my kids.

I certainly don’t want.

I could have done without having to come to all these conclusions.


I certainly there were a lot of years where I was super fucked up because I didn’t understand those things and I certainly don’t want those aspects but I do wonder what on Earth is going to motivate these two.


And how and and are you going to protect them in that moment or are you going to let them experience it?


So they have an understanding of it and some coping skills and some coping skills.

I’m, you know, my kids are living in a really privileged life.

Like, yeah, unbelievably privileged life, and they don’t even know it.

Yeah, and they’ll never know it now, because this will be the only one that they know.


Well, I don’t know about you, but I spent so much time worrying about.

Oh my God.

What is it going to be like, for them to grow up with famous parents, with people stopping us out and about and I became so protective of this and so off-putting to people when we’re out in public, you know, and At a certain point recently.


It just occurred to me.

They don’t know another life.

They think everyone’s parents are famous.

This is just life on planet Earth for them.

They don’t feel like they’re there are some compromises happened or what.

It’s just their fucking life.

It’s not nearly what I was fearful.


It was going to be, it’s just a matter of fact.


So whenever we’re with our kids we in people ask us to take a picture.

I always say we don’t take pictures when we were their kids.

That’s what we say.

And so now my less you ask them.

We would now.

Daughter goes.

No, we don’t take pictures like that.


Shop says, that is really weird as well.


Yeah, it’s going to be you can’t let him because he was my strawberry for them is going to be camping.


Like I and I’m going to take them camping a lot.


Just because I want them to be really resourceful.

Yeah, and I want to teach them how to be resourceful is because as long as they know how to do when they don’t have things, they know how to be resourceful, then come to circumstance, because my kids are not getting Like big, I’m not setting up a trust for them.


I will will end up giving our money away me to charity into various that me and act, real fraud fund.

And so our kids, if my kids want to start a business that and they have a good business plan all invest in it.

Yeah, but I’m not, they’re not getting trust.

They’re not going to get.


So hopefully they’ll be motivated to have what they had you or some version of what they had or conversely.

What might be very liberating and cool is that they All this shit.

You and I coveted and they didn’t give a shit about it.

It wasn’t that hot.


Yeah, it’s really happy happy because I don’t know ten years.

I had the one-bedroom apartment Santa Monica.

They were great.

They were a fucking blast.

I was in love.

With bre.

We had friends.

Everything was fine.

I would much rather have this problem than the converse problem, yet, because I, my, my biggest fear in the, in the world right now, is that We grew up in an age of upward potential upward mobility and we had that that was given to us by our surroundings and I’m and I’m becoming increasingly fearful that the Next Generation isn’t going to have the opportunity to Upward Mobility that we had.


Yeah, based on a lot of social dynamics.

Well, there is even an article is an article last week.

That was like, should you even send your kids to medical school?

Because AI is going to be doing 90% of the medical work.

By the time, our kids would Joy from Medical School.

Retches crazy.


Well, I yeah, I had this, I was going to hook my echo up to my coffee pot.


And then I thought, I thought about this this morning.

I was going downstairs.

And I was like, you know, I usually walk in, I tell the echo to turn the lights on and then it’s my, it’s pretty fairly automated.


And then I asked, you know, for my daily briefing and then I and I have this sort of routine with the robot I was with.

And, and I was gonna, I was gonna hook The robot up to the coffee pot.

So that when I walk down, and I asked to turn the lights on, I would say good morning.


And then it would just start brewing, my coffee, my setup, the next work.

And, and, and what I realized as I thought about doing this, this morning, was, what would I do in the morning?

Yeah, if I’m not even, yeah, it’s partly surrendered yourself.



I was so what?

And I thought, like, what would I do?

Yeah, if I’m if I, if my first thing I did in the morning, wasn’t Coffee like what the what would I do?

And I think they’re going to have this, what you?

I do problem.

Well, Sam Harris.

Had this guy Yovan who wrote home odious and Homo sapiens fantastic books.


Yeah, they’re so great.

And you know, you’re in the oval says that we will very soon. 90% of the people will be unemployed will be called the useless class because Ai and Robotics will be doing everything and people get a stipend from the government.



That’s what the live on.

That’s all fine.

And dandy.

My thought is oh shit.

Oh, Our kids are going to live through the transition to that where you have thirty percent unemployment.

It’s fine.

If we have 90 percent unemployment and everything’s being done for us and you get a stipend, but when there’s 30% unemployment, That’s like fucking Civil War time that our kids are going to live through.


So I think, about seven years ago.

I heard for the first time.

I don’t remember who said it.

So we said in the future, people are either going to have jobs, where they tell robots what to do or they’re being told what to do by robots.

Which job do you want?

So I decided and it’s stuck with me and I Repeated a thousand times as if it’s my own and I truly believe it.


I don’t think it’s that far off.

Like there’s a bummer with autonomous vehicles.

A wonderful thing where like people don’t die driving bummer because driving’s really liberating humongous hand histories based around driving is and down, and these these jobs are gone.


So having raising kids that have the capacity to socially relate with others, really, really well, and empathize.

Thighs and have like, all of the sort of soft skills, like, just nailed, I think, is a key component to that, like, just, like, crushing on soft skills.


Like all day long.


And then and then and then learning how to code.

So they can have a job telling the computer what to do, right?

I think that that’s like, I think that’s yeah.

Like I and I and I like started at my daughter’s 3 and I’ve started explaining things.


I feel like we’re still of entertainers.

That’s what I’m holding out for ya.

Yes, yes.

Because people have a lot of spare time.

Yeah, that’s right.

They’ll need to, you gotta, you gotta have sex with someone when you go into your VR World.

Well, didn’t you hear about famous robot?

That you can now have sex with the robot?


Oh, really?


There’s a robot that people can have sex, all, I would love my argument was that it would probably be much better with VR and a haptic then actually having sex with a robot, the question that was at the table.

This is our New Year’s conversation was.

Is it cheating?

If you have sex with a robot or is that just masturbation on?


Oh, yes.

Masturbation Kristen can have a fucking robot boyfriend.

That’s so easy.

You mean answer?

You’ve just so simply qualified and yeah, I can hardly hear.

Anyways, I thank you so much for coming.

I have throughout the 14 years.


We’ve known each other.

Whenever I get a chance to talk to people about you.

I always say, you know, whatever your opinion of this guy is I’ve met a lot of people in my life.

I don’t never met someone that works harder.

It’s a super, super admirable quality you have I believe you deserve everything you have thought.


And I love you, and thank you for giving me everything I have.

I love you.

Thank you for asking me to be one of your early guests on your show because I know it’s going to be ridiculously successful.

So thank you and I be your first guest.

Yeah, absolutely.

So so the are you going to have to like my release three at a time?


I want to be like an inaugural.


Oh, yeah, like the space shuttle thing.

Well, I think you’re a bit of good luck because you were like an inaugural Twitter user and all these other things.

And I think that that is your like a harbinger of good things.

I was at first.

No, but you Like first to a million, right?



Yeah, don’t fake like you weren’t.



You crushed it.


Be seeing a check kids in the Czech Republic hacking for.

All right.

I like I acted like the Russians in our life.


Love you.

Bye bye.

Stay tuned.

If you’d like to hear my good friend and producer, Monica Patman point out, the many errors in the podcast.


You just heard Monica.


You’ve listened to Ashton die.

Yes, and how’d it go?

Pretty good.

There was not a lot to fact-check.

Well, that’s kind of a bummer.


Yeah, I would have thought with to know it alls of he and I stature that there would have been a ton of facts being rattled off.


Some when we speak off the Record.

We’re just trying to wow.

Each other with numbers that are totally bogus bogus unsubstantiated.


You talked a little bit about scientology’s perspective on drugs.

Okay, and I have what Scientology dot-org says about drugs?




I’m going to read it.

Scientologists do use prescribed medical drugs when physically ill and also rely on the advice and treatment of medical doctors.



Do not take street drugs or mind-altering psychotropic.

Yes, psychotropics.

They consider drugs cause extremely The effects on a person, physically mentally and spiritually specifically that drugs, decrease awareness and hinder abilities.


They are a quote solution to some other problem, but ultimately proved an even bigger problem.


That’s straight from the Scientology.

That’s right now Straight From the Source, okay, and I think I had claimed that they drugs, make your environment danger, did yeah, what you did?


And then he and mention some fat.


I would have to find the thing, but they do they do give kids.

Like a little book on hygiene.

I’ve seen it, and there is kind of a generalized, like, you know, be cognizant of your environment Vibe sure, which I dig.


Well, they have a lot of people, I’m sure they have a lot of naysayers, they encounter in their life.

So they do have to sort of be conscious of their environment and who they’re putting in, and what’s allowed?



Sure, right.


And who’s a suppressive person?


An SP2 and SP?


Friends with a ton of scientologists and I’m always nervous.

They’re going to label me an SP and we can’t be friends anymore.

But thus far, it hasn’t happened.


What do you have to do?

Well, I did ask a guy who had left the church and I said, you know, it my dancing on razor blades if I want it because I’m just curious, right?


So we’ll be in the car and like I was on a road trip with Erika Christensen who’s very vocally and openly a Scientologist and now, you know, I’ll just start kind of asking her, like, you know, why is it that That you don’t have access to all the literature or scripture like the Bible is the Bible.


They give it to any Christian.

Here it is.

There’s no you know, you don’t have to obtain a certain level to thank you.

Yes, and and and then further I was curious and this is my kind of my issue with Catholicism is Everyone’s working off this document, the Bible and how on Earth does the priest have more info than anyone else.


The only info to have is in this one book.

So, this dude is that it would be as if you were in a book club.

In one guy knew more about Catcher in the Rye than anyone else.

I just don’t buy that.

You all have the same book.

You can read it.

There can’t be an authority on it.

As long as you can read.

Yep, and I was kind of, you know, challenging that but in doing that, I started getting nervous because I love and adore Erica, and I certainly don’t want us.


Step over a line and get labeled an SP.

So, I asked this guy who had left the church and he basically told me what whether he’s right or wrong.

The only people that are really run a risk of being labeled in spr people who were in the church then leave then start prostitute sizing against it.


Got it again.

This would require yet.

Another fact around bucks.


We are.

Fact-checked part to this.

Could be an endless thing, right?

It could be just a vertex of, yeah.

Okay, so then you mentioned a story.


You talked about a story or Danny Masterson was under the influence while driving.

Yeah, okay, but from my perspective your first yeah, man, see what have cocktails?

And then we got in a car that seems pretty conclusive, but not really your perspective.

That’s just the truth.


Probably he may see it differently.

Um, so then we talk so then you mention the statute of limitations.

So I looked up what the Ah-choo of limitations, is for drunk driving, criminal DUI, offenses, on criminal, doing.

What’s the statute of limitations?


For a misdemeanor?

DUI is generally 18 months from the date of offense.

Oh, the statute of limitations for a felony DUI is generally three years from also either, or either way.

He is sowing Claire, it’s fine.


Well, you can talk about it all you want.

Oh good.



I feel are less morally emanating.

Yeah, just was perplexed.


And then this isn’t a fact check, but I just wanted to say because Ashton refers to a book, the gene, uh-huh, and I just wanted to say that that’s written by Siddhartha Mukerji.


Oh, yeah, he we’ve heard him on Sam here.

I’m here.


Exact kind of like the Godfather of of cancer research.

Don’t lie.


Oh, I wish I would have realized that when we were talking because we both heard said Arthur talk, quite extensive.

Early on that topic.


Yeah, exactly.

So I just want to say that kiss anyone wanted to buy it and read us and and supported a little reading on it.

It looks good.

Yeah, an interesting.

What if you’ve written a book?

That’s good enough to get you invited on a Sam Harris.

Has podcasts.

You’re probably right.


Yeah, you’re saying something pretty smart.

Yeah, probably.

Okay, and then you mentioned you talked about Tom Arnold having dating and his lately.

Having a CPAP machine.



Yeah, and so I wanted to clarify what that was in case.

People didn’t know what that was.



Oh and I’m saying CPAC.

I wondered if you were saying that if I’m doing it wrong, you’ve known me now for years, I mispronounce almost everything we all do.



No, that’s why I’m here really good diction.

So yeah, as does Bal Bal almost she says every word almost exactly as intended in the Webster dictionary.

Yeah, but this is to treat sleep.

Apnea, right?

Yes a Mac.




Yeah, it’s just it’s to treat sleep apnea and it stands for continuous positive.

Airway pressure, Mmm.

Yeah, and it provides some and it’s a cumbersome unit because my father had one and yeah, it is large.


It is.

I’m sure they’re getting smaller.

I think it’s very loud.

It’s loud, and if you Are a man of means and can afford the nice, the Rolls-Royce of see paps.

They have ones that also put moisture in there.

They’re kind of like a humidifiers of the men’s yet another engine and yeah, and holding tank and all that stuff.



Mmm, yum, what would be your reaction if you hooked up with a guy and then you invited him to spend the night and then he said, let me just grab some, my trunk and then he brought him.

Would you find it endearing?


Yeah, I would.

Yeah, because you’re a good person.


I’m okay.

But yeah, I would find that cute.

It is pretty cute.

This is a pretty vulnerable move.

My rooms small.

That I would rather die in my sleep of.

I would rather stop breathing in my sleep on a first date.

Then bring my CPAP machine out or maybe you just don’t sleep that night.


You just stay up all night staring at her.

That would be the first that would make two or three months.



What so, I also talked about the happiest baby on the Block book.


He’s got, the 5S is, and no one.


Could remember, the last s?

We can I try it again.

Now, we’re not there.

They them all.

All five of them.


Sucking, swaddling swaying shushing and sucking.


Swaddling swaying shushing.


I don’t know.

What is it?


Swaddle side stomach position.

Oh, that’s the missing one.

I totally forgot that Shashi swinging sucking.



Right now, you know, they’re not going to have any more also could be applied on a first date.

Harvey karp, is that dr.





Okay, and then I wanted to talk a little bit about the the hair procedure that you and Ashton both.


Okay, great.

And a little information.

We don’t well even I ask that dr.

What the fuck are you injecting into my scalp?

And he wouldn’t tell me.

Yes a proprietary situation.

He didn’t want the secret serum to be known because I think you labeled it a chicken egg serum on the podcast.


What does that even mean?

I don’t know you tell me.

Um, so I have a question when you would do.

They draw your blood.

No, so this must be an advanced version that I was so mad.

I look.

So again, I think I was pretty clear.

I think it was probably hocus-pocus.


No, this is a real thing.

I found a lot of information on it actually.


It’s called PRP platelet.

Rich plasma.

Does that sound right?

That sounds way more high-tech than what I.

Maybe guy was sitting evolved since maybe you were early adopters.


Oh, maybe.

Yeah, but it’s a stealth, a stem cell treatment.

Oh, really?


No, I’m excited.


I should look into that because that sounds legit.

Yeah, they draw blood and spin it.

They put it through a centrifuge separation process.


And then you get this plasma and then they apply that plasma to the scalp.

And yeah, they use like oop.


Is that we said?


Yeah, so I have had that on my wrist.

Oh, yeah, and you’ve had it on your head.

Ricky glassman’s a big proponent of it.

For his knees from playing basketball.


And he recommended, it might be beneficial for my wrist, because my arthritis and it wasn’t for me, which is not to say, wouldn’t be for you.

Mmm, Yeah.

The are sustained and did they stat didn’t stab you.

They use like a little machine, but they drew a bunch of blood and then, yeah, they put it in a centrifuge and then I guess we had plasma and then he also put some stem cells in there too that he had gotten.


And yeah, and then just kind of sprayed it all over my joint.

You know, he, we made it into a paste.

No, no, he was in.

It was in a syringe.

Oh, okay, but it was far less than what I had donated blood wise and He got into those joints with a very long needle, and was just to me haphazardly squirting that Plasma on the joint and while it was happening.


I was like, I don’t know.

Well, maybe and then turns out, I’m just generally a little skeptical.

I will try everything, but I’m skeptical while I’m doing it.

Got it.

Anyway, that’s I think what was happening to you?


It wasn’t because I didn’t draw, I never gave blood.


Well, maybe they use something else because I didn’t I think what about time?

Well, if they use blood, he was probably like, like Voodoo style, cutting a chicken’s neck in the back.

See, this is where the chicken chicken idea comes from.


You mentioned that, you write an article that said that talked about how we, we don’t even really need to send kids to medical school.


Oh, yeah.


And was that in the New York Times?

I found an article that was that exact thing?

And I think maybe it was that.

No, it was it was in it was in your ovals book Amadeus, the guy who wrote.

I know you talked about that, but then you said, you also read an article recently that had mentioned.


Like we should, we don’t even need to really send our kids to medical school anymore because like really, I is going to be doing all the diagnostic work and stuff.

Well, I thought it was referencing the article but the psychiatrist but that was in something else.

Anyways, maybe I was lying.


I don’t remember reading an article.

I think it’s really from Reading Amadeus that I have that.


Well there is an talks about big blue, not big blue, the new IBM computer, that’s replaced.

Big blue has a cute name.

You know what I’m talking about?

Oh, well, I It’s got an AI computer that has a cute name and there was even a 60 Minutes on this.


They gave it to these oncologists and they started going through all these files and very rapid fashion.

And then the computer started spitting out diagnosis.

Okay, this will be totally off, but it was like, 80%, Let’s just say, okay?

And then they said that the rate of accuracy of oncologists is 50%.


So already, the IBM computer is vastly more that word article.

You found says, yeah, it’s, it’s called will robots.

Take our children’s jobs.

Mmm, and it was in the New York Times.

It’s by a man named Alex Williams, who suspiciously is married to this blogger that I follow.


Uh-huh, and it’s interesting because I only knew that I started reading the article and he mentions his kids names at the top of the article.

Okay, and then I just put two and two together that that is Those he must be married to this woman.

Who’s the woman, won’t you plug-in?


Called cup of Joe is the is the block is her name?

And her name is Joe.

Okay, great.

Yeah, okay and but I got kind of weirded out when that happened because I was like, oh my God, I just put all this information.

I know about these people and I don’t.


Yeah, really, but it’s like, there’s a weird thing.

There’s a weird a little bit of voyeurism.

Yeah, yeah.

Feel like I know too much about something I shouldn’t know.


Anyway, that made me feel weird.

He’s a medical was one of the top ones that.

Yeah, it says, you know, people want to make, you know, encourage their kids to become radiologist.


That’s a very good job and make a lot of money doing that.


Is it arteries?

But is the robot you were talking about?


Well, has a very an amorphize name.

Is that the right word and I’m more and interpret.

Throw amorphized.


Yeah, it’s like Haley.




Mikey Mikey the new I am super complete, like, he’s cute.

I want, is the name of that supercomputer.

But yeah, there’s a startup called arteries, which is just one example that has a program that can do all this MRI in 15 seconds compared to 45 minutes at a human takes.



So in same with surgeons and, you know, it’s yeah, it’s He’s just saying that.

Yeah, it’s jobs are going to become obsolete.

Yeah, obsolete.

So don’t please don’t send you Watson’s its name.

Why is it up on my phone?

I cheated.

Yeah, Watson.


It’s cute, right?

Yeah, like that.

I’m assuming that’s a reference to Sherlock Holmes.

Yeah, that’s a lot of info.

What else do we have?

Okay, so then you also said, you’ve all her.

Are he’s booked you.


By the way, as I explore deeper into And it’s not named after Watson, from, from whatever.

We just feel like home Sherlock, Holmes.

It’s named after IBM’s first CEO industrialist, Thomas, J, Watson.

And, you know, well, no, I was gonna say maybe he was named after him.


But no, that’s a last name.




I’m really derailed here.

Yeah, it’s not as cute.

It’s certainly not know.

Okay, you’ve all her Ari’s book.

Oh, yeah, you called it Homo sapiens in the book is just called sapiens.

Oh, okay.



That’s great to know.

For people who might want to order.

It’s a great book.

Very good.

He’s also on Sam Harris, his podcast.


We’re here.

We’re really here to promote.

Say, we are what we’re trying to do, the Layman’s version help, but that episode is called reality in the imagination.


If anyone’s interested.

Oh, yeah.


I don’t know over to Sam Harris.

Has waking up a very fascinating.

Yeah, especially when he gets.

Into what we will do in the future, when 90% of the population is unemployed.


That part was really fascinating.


Okay, last thing.

Yeah, you guys discussed robots.

Sexual intercourse with robot.

Uh-huh, and I found some information.

Okay, great.

Some interesting information.

I’m just gonna read this.


Okay, this is from NBC News.



There’s on a bridge.

You haven’t done any.

Any editing know you had to be straight?


Okay, this is no paraphrase.


Um, okay.

It says it will be a while before these robots really look or act like people but the sex toy industry worth billions of dollars.


Globally is primed for penetration by robots.

One of the early entries into this Market is an animatronic head named Harmony.

Another interesting cute name.

Mmm, that’s infused with artificial intelligence to give it a personality and the Ready to learn about its human partner.


Oh boy, Harmony will connect to the silicone body of a real doll.

A life-size, sex doll that’s been around for 20 years, a flash pot.


The first sex robots.

Won’t be able to caress won’t be able to caress, grab or thrust against their human lovers, but more intelligent, more mobile and more realistic robots, will soon become available.


Let me just say that when those things are available in their fordable.

I will 100% do it.

Mostly to see to confirm.

ERM my suspicion that I’m really only interested in sex insofar as that.

I’m being desired.


I think that’s the big appeal for me.

It seemed it’s clearly when you read these sexual harassment details that some guys are getting off on much different things power.

Yeah, that’s different.

Yeah, but I am only in it for like approval.

Yeah and desirability.


So I’m just trying to imagine if it would be ego inflating to have a robot desire?

You yeah, feels weird.

Like like if my laptop liked me a ton and when I opened it up it was like thank God, you’re back.

I don’t feel like, I don’t know you.


I don’t know.

I guess it depends if they could, if they could perfect that the interface in the AI, in a way that it was organically and believably telling you things, like you’re the best I’ve ever had, they couldn’t live without this.


Then I think it would be pretty exciting.

Hmm, I wonder and I am very Pro people, having sex with robots.

Even when they’re married in monogamous.

Even if even if these robots like no, you see, that’s absolutely you can still.



If Kristin had a robot that she fucked, you know, a few times a week.

She enjoyed that.

I just can’t imagine seeing that differently than her getting a deep tissue.


She like, but what if she enjoyed the company of this?

Robot so much that she was like, I’m not gonna watch the movie tonight with you because I’m just going to go into the other bedroom window while with heart valve.


Well, yeah and I havenít very easy answer for that.

If this thing starts taking away from my needs, then that’s an issue.

Yeah, but they might bring all these things.

All these jealousy issues that you’re avoiding.

What the real the real question is are my needs being met or not.


That’s pretty much the only thing you’re entitled to to ask for in a relationship.

So, if my needs are being met and she’s, you know, quietly without me, knowing fucking this robot, six times, a week who gives a shit.

I don’t care.

Yeah, I agree.

But I just mean, if they get more and more intelligent, they may become more and more design quickly.



Okay, then then that’s much bigger issue.



And not going to keep her from being super happy for about of.

That’s what she, you know, ones.

We’ll see.

We’ll see.

Next episode will be in.


Well, thank you Monica for correcting me.

You’re welcome.

I look forward to the next lashing.

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