0:00

Hello, welcome to the armchair expert.

I’m your host act Shepherd.

Today.

I’m going to speak with a musician named Van hunt.

I was deeply deeply, deeply, obsessed, with fan hunt around two thousand, five and six and onward.

0:16

I’ve not ever stop listening to him.

In fact, my four year old daughter’s favorite songs is one of his being a girl and I talked about him so frequently and I gifted Monica, some of his music for Christmas and then she and Rob my other producer went behind my back and got a hold of him.

0:36

And as a surprise to me, they brought him in and it was a very, very very joyful experience to speak to someone who I have admired and enjoyed and whose music has brought so much color to my life over the last 12 years.

0:51

So, please enjoy van hunt.

He’s an armchair van hunt.

1:09

Welcome to armchair expert.

I’m so excited.

You came.

We have no.

You’re the first person.

I’ll have interviewed that.

We have zero connection.

We’ve never met.

I mean, I’ve met you.

You don’t know that that will come out later, but we don’t I know nothing about you for me.

This is my first Blind date and I’m very pumped about it.

1:29

The blind date success ratios, but even with the Wedding Marriage, yeah, I think you’re right.

A 50/50 chance, but my my history with you is, I guess in may be too wet.

When did your self titled.

1:45

Come out of 05 2005?

Yeah, 04:04.

Yeah.

So in 2004 you had a couple songs and as luck would have it, I had.

At that time, had a car that had XM radio.

So, I was listening to stations where you got different stuff, you know?

2:01

Yeah, and so, on one of like, either heart and soul or what either, 48, 49 50 in the XM world.

That’s where all the R&B is.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, they would play Dust a tongue and I fell in love with that song.

Didn’t know what on Earth you were saying when I eventually read the lyrics, I was like, oh I was not hearing that at all.

2:21

And then they also played seconds of pleasure a lot and then I That album and then I just became a van hunt.

Oh, no abscess van, huh?

I bet I’d listen to that and then jungle.

I’m so bad with names and everything.

You’ll have to excuse my little better though.

2:39

You like it.

You should have just been jungle on the jungle floor.

Yeah, and those for me I just as a listener.

I don’t know if it really was at the same time, but I think the first John, Legend album I got was around that same time so definitely, right.

2:58

So those two John Legend’s first or whatever Ordinary People is on.

Yeah, the Anton Vann hunt were just back and forth, back and forth, and back and forth.

Oh, yeah.

Anyways, I’m a huge fan.

I’ve seen you live.

Oh, wow.

Really?

Yeah, and I have, I’m always talking to Monica and Rob about, in fact, this year for Christmas.

3:16

I gifted Monica about five years songs, and I just happen to talk about you a lot, and then they went behind my back and ask you to do it.

Anyways, long-winded way to I’m so excited.

You’re here, man.

I had no idea was surprised that you actually told me that.

Mmm.

Yeah.

3:31

Yeah.

Want to scare you off.

Oh, super fandom.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is a more of this is a little dangerous for you.

My fandoms a little dangerous, but we are both from the Midwest.

Yeah, you’re from Dayton, Ohio, which is right, off I-75, right?

3:49

It is.

That’s right.

I’ve driven through there a billion times on my way down to Florida from me.

Michigan.

Yeah, it’s called Little Detroit.

Oh it is.

Yeah.

Oh I didn’t know that the manufacturing commonalities like oh, uh, huh.

Yeah and similarly to I think that Dayton has a huge population of folks that came up from Kentucky and salute for that industrial work, right?

4:12

Exactly.

In Mississippi.

Yeah, so my grandparents are both ones identify most with they were both from Kentucky and came up for Wonder Bread, Bakery and Kraft cheese.

So and then they stayed.

So do you are your folks do you do they have any history in the South?

4:33

We’ll both my grandparents were from Mount Sterling, Kentucky.

Oh, there you go.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the other side there from Mississippi, Greenville, Mississippi.

And what, maybe I’ve read this in two different books.

One in a Malcolm Gladwell book that talks about the culture of Pride.

4:50

Yeah, right.

Looking at all these Long-standing family Wars like the Hatfields and McCoys, right, and how many thousands of people were killed in Appalachia from like Family Feud’s and he attempted to explain that.

5:06

And his conclusion was that most of those people, they all came from Ireland and Scotland.

That’s who kind of settled that area Appalachia and that all their, their tradition was hurting.

And if you’re a herder, you got a fucking stand your ground, like, your perimeters on.

5:24

Own in your mixing with other herds and dudes.

Their gotta fucking kill each other to survive and then they brought that what they labeled a culture of Pride to Kentucky, and then they brought it to Dayton, Ohio.

I’m assuming they certainly brought it up to Milford, Michigan.

5:40

Where guys would, they’re willing to die over something pretty insignificant.

Yeah, would you say your neighbors were like that and Dayton?

Well, absolutely, and I always grew up feeling like you had to be a sort of a rock in the string.

5:56

Hmm, you know, and always remain the same no matter what was coming at you even try to make, you know, minor shape shifts in order to to to adapt.

Yeah, but it was constantly standing your ground.

And in fact, there was no being able to back up.

6:13

I remember, you know, our mom pushing me out to fight, right?

Yeah, as I was running into the house from a fight.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Nah, my mom.

Very similar you were raised by single mother.

Yeah.

I too was raised by a single mother and I think she had two boys, my brother.

6:30

And I eventually, I had a little sister as well.

But yeah, I think the pressure on her to, like, I got to get these boys out of this house.

Yeah, so they can protect themselves.

She was.

Yeah.

Abnormally, Pro fighting this, which is, I think unique.

In fact, I think the story, my mom tells that she relishes, the very most is my brother all through kindergarten.

6:52

And first grade.

He got beat up almost daily by this.

Kid, that was at his bus stop?

They would they get off the bus.

They my brother would be the first to get home and he would kick my, brother’s ass in the front yard and it drove my mom.

Insane, one day.

My mom had put me in the front yard and I was in a little swing.

7:07

He’s five years older than me and this bully stopped and screamed in my face and I started crying and my brother beat the fuck out of it.

Like my mom had to come out and pull him off the top and it’s my mom’s more proud of that than like graduating from college or any accomplishment we’ve ever had.

7:24

The Highlight for her that really got passed down to you as well.

Feel the same.

Yeah.

Do you have any kids?

Yeah, you do.

Yeah, how many I just want?

Just want.

Ya boy or girl.

He’s boy a teenager always a teenager.

Yeah.

Yes.

So now that you like your job, your artistic, you move to California, you’ve made a lot of declarations that you’re not the dude.

7:45

He’s probably going to tell his kid to get out there and fight you wrestle with that.

No, not at all.

Because the first time he was hit in his face in class.

He walked away and ice and I told him what a big mistake.

I thought that was just for his future.

8:01

Yes.

Yes, the first place that a guy looking for a quick Victory will go to now is you uh-huh.

All right, so you would you might want to stand your ground?

Is he is he artistic and thoughtful like you?

He’s see a lughead.

8:16

He certainly thoughtful.

I wouldn’t say he’s artistic.

I didn’t press the push that on ha, ha, he’s much more of a into. 60, he is.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, you probably couldn’t have seen that coming.

I did not see them.

Yeah, so, but how old were you when your parents got divorced?

8:35

Oh, well, 22 is very young.

I was three.

Yeah.

I’m right there with you.

Yeah, and then you go see Dad on the weekends.

Yeah.

Well, you know, how dad’s are nineteen.

Seventy two three, aha.

8:51

So it when he could get around when they could get around.

Uh-huh.

So I was reading about you last night and I was like, oh, there’s a lot of similarities here.

So I was three and my dad eventually got sober.

He died. 25 years sober but he fucking party balls.

9:08

Yeah, we lived in this one-bedroom apartment drove a shavette and he kept our family house and had a Corvette and just party and he would you know, he was supposed to come every other weekend and then half of those weekends, we went straight to my grandparents house and then the weekends where with them we hung out.

9:24

This bar, the dirty duck.

Yeah, and he would like, I mean, we get there at 10:00 in the morning.

They had Corner quarter chili dogs.

So we would just eat chili dogs.

Play Pac-Man, my dad would land chicks all day long and then we’d eventually all pile into the Corvette and Ryback to his house and like snow, and we’d end up in a ditch.

9:41

You know, it was, it was a lot of shit going on before us, you know, I was reading your story.

I was like, I feel like that’s a little bit similar.

I’m sure much different vibe to it all.

But no, it’s but no the odd.

The outcome was pretty much the same.

Yeah.

Mmm and my parents were so young that I really had to kind of adapt to whatever it was.

10:02

They were doing, right.

So my mom was much more responsible, you know, professional, aha, but, you know, my dad, he though he loved me, you know, you kind of have to just go with whatever he was doing and that could be playing basketball to chasing women time.

10:20

Fixing cars.

It didn’t matter.

Yeah.

Smoking.

But whatever was happening at that moment, you just going to be a part of it.

Yeah, and if you couldn’t, you know, he would show you in a room and close the door.

And then, like, give you a whip and if you looked, I think that’s in a lot of parenting books that technique during you said in an interview that he was a part-time painter.

10:45

And a pimp.

Yeah.

What do you mean pimp?

Like, he just got a lot of ass or pimp, like he actually had some gals on rotation.

Well, the way I, I remember this moment is a critical moment in my career and I was the first publicity statement and I just written this story would like just write down some things that, you know, about yourself.

11:06

Aha.

And one of the things I wrote was my father, making fun of him as he was a part-time, paying a part-time pimp.

Okay, didn’t okay.

Come on stop.

Ya didn’t come out that way, you know, part-time player and a pimp full-time part-time painful than him.

11:25

So, but, you know, I used to have all these memories.

Like I said, they my parents split when I was too, not just had all these memories of all of these girls and rooms.

Uh-huh.

And one day, I just asked him like what was happening because I remember you and I remember all these girls.

11:42

Yeah.

There’s only one situation where that really makes me is a dressmaker.

Yeah.

Did it turn out?

He was a dressmaker and he was like, yeah, I dabbled in that.

He’s like, you know, I’d it was just trying to Figure out what I want to do, right?

And, you know, I had green eyes and I just tried it.

11:59

You did.

He did he have green.

Yeah.

Oh wow, and you get pretty far on green eyes, right?

I suppose.

Yeah, and that Community world.

I don’t know.

Yeah, so and we’re your friends primarily in this and similar situations.

12:17

I didn’t have any friends that I recall to be honest.

Uh-huh.

My parents friends were my friends.

If they Had kids and with them.

Yeah, it was very insular.

Uh-huh.

In my experience, Rio.

I moved out of Ohio eventually.

12:32

And then, you know, I became friends with, like neighborhood kids like a regular guy, but other than that, but like I said, my parents were so young and couldn’t afford to, you know, have babysitter’s, right.

So other than my meeting, you know, family like my grandmother’s kids, who are all so young.

12:48

Yeah.

Yeah.

I didn’t really have any friends, but what little I read of your takeaway from that child.

Childhood in interviews, it seems positive.

Yeah, I thought so.

So, positive, that I made me go, like, oh, I need because I have similar stories and I kind of a, i credit a lot of that, some of that parenting to look eventual things.

13:11

I had to confront, you know, but it was fun at the dirty duck.

Like I fucking I did like the dirty Dock.

And also, when we went to his house on the weekends, you know, he felt guilty because he wasn’t crushing as a Add.

So like we got to order pizza on.

We got to rent movies.

13:27

So there is a ton of good stuff.

Yeah, and in reading your kind of take away from the whole thing.

I thought, oh, you know, I need to be careful that.

I’m not like everything’s bad or everything is, you know, I wouldn’t have viewed much of it as, as bad.

13:43

I mean, in a sense that, you know, I didn’t have it certainly weren’t advantages where you might see someone else’s life as more advantaged.

Uh-huh, but I I didn’t recognize that it was the only childhood.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, it was normal.

Care is just every day was a bit of an adventure for me, uh-huh.

14:04

And to, you know, run into a dope house and you’re sitting there and you’re, you know, your Dad’s plan where this cards or dominoes and, you know, your, your aunt is, you know, it’s running back and forth to the rooms telling you it’s a hey, don’t remember.

14:19

Remember, don’t you?

Tell your uncle Steve, I was over here.

Okay, the Running in the background.

Uh-huh.

That was what I remember and the smoke in the room, you know, right.

It was all very cinematic.

Yes.

Yeah.

For any all this happened between, you know, three, four and up until 14 15.

14:41

Uh-huh.

And those are your most impressionable years for your brain.

Are you seen violence?

No, there wasn’t.

Oh, really unique.

That’s good.

I’m sure.

I’m probably heard of violence on, huh.

I was, I’ve never felt Look guys, weren’t getting the guys weren’t hammered getting bent out of shape about the card game and then throwing down or well they were rumors of that like, oh, yeah, you know, somebody broke into someone sells game last night, you know, but not not murders.

15:08

And right in robberies not from.

So you weren’t scared.

No.

Oh, that’s good.

And your mom.

She was a single mom.

Yeah.

Did you have stepdads?

I had stepdad.

Yeah.

How’d that go?

It’s cooling.

My goodness.

Why do you?

15:23

Yeah.

And then you broke your neck.

How is that?

You know, that was, that was cool.

That was really cool way to look.

Hey, I don’t know if I buy it, but it’s really good.

You know what these crazy stories?

Because I met with my mom, she came out here to visit me like two weekends ago.

15:42

Uh-huh, and I was like, Mom did your uncle?

James really died after standing down.

The Ku Klux Klan and Mississippi.

She was like, yeah.

She told me the whole story.

Uh-huh.

Is it just a little things you hear in the Family.

Yeah, and then I was like, well, like did my step-brother have like the biggest cocaine was he involved in the biggest cocaine bust like in Dayton history.

16:03

She’s like, oh, yeah, that happened.

It’s just little things you hear about you, you know, you don’t really put it together until later.

Yeah, but you were fine personally.

I have a terrible Authority complex.

Oh, just don’t soon as I recognize someone’s in a position of authority.

16:22

I’m just it’s terrible.

Macaroni, oh, there goes.

She’s in charge.

Sometimes we don’t get along for that reason, but I attribute a lot of it to our house would have this Rhythm to.

16:39

It is my brother my sister and I life’s pretty good.

We knew how to you know Thrive with my mom and then a new dude would enter the scenario.

Yeah, and then it was generally going to be how that guy saw the world.

We were all going to adopt for a little while.

I am very much hated that but you didn’t mind that.

16:57

Well, I can’t say.

Don’t fucking bullshit me.

You can’t say that that ever was a problem for me.

My mom would set the stage in a relationship early on.

And she’d always say, I, you know, I taught him to speak his mind.

17:14

It’s the only way he’s going to protect himself out here.

Mmm, and so I didn’t know this.

She told me this later on, so we’re not have run-ins with her boyfriends.

They would generally Back down.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

And so if it was like I hate the way you wash the car, do it again.

17:30

I was like, okay, I’m not doing that right?

They would just go back in the house.

Okay, move never like some big stand out.

So your mama strong.

She was very strong.

Yeah, is presumably still strong.

She don’t lose it along the way.

Are you only child Rob was for ten years for ten years.

17:47

Yeah.

Now, did you get into this Dynamic at all?

Where your mom kind of makes you her?

Her husband while there’s no one around for sure.

Yeah, she admits that she would tell you in a minute.

I was essentially my little brother’s Dad.

18:03

Yeah, and to me I saw this this was definitely harder on my brother than myself because he was older, but that to compounded the thing when the stepdad did enter the equation or the new boyfriend because it was like, okay great.

So thank you.

18:18

You’ve been doing a great job.

Being a dad your brother and like being emotional Bedrock for me.

But now now your The bench.

Sure isn’t that confusing?

Well, first of all, I can easily adapt.

Uh-huh.

Even two assholes.

I do it in studio all the time, when I’m producing projects, because everybody thinks they’re a genius.

18:39

Yeah.

Yeah, so you have to allow them to be a genius and a temporal kind of setting.

Uh-huh.

In order to get something done.

Right?

You know that what you’re going to do and what you’re capable of and that doesn’t change, just because this guy is Is really an asshole, but he’s a genius right now.

18:56

Uh-huh.

And so you let that happen.

And then you swing back around both my parents being Pisces.

I imagine helps I being app.

I see myself.

I can remain pretty.

Pretty cool, you know, situations and allow them to kind of twirl themselves, into whatever.

19:12

They going to shape their going to take.

Yeah, and then I can do what I need to do, but that takes a ton of confidence and optimism because at times, I would imagine if you’re producing an artist in your Not use almost zero control over what’s happening?

Or at least it feels that way.

19:28

Yeah, that would scare me.

Well, I don’t try and control anything except that.

We keep all of the good stuff right now at me, right?

So you’re kind of more there to encourage them, to get it all out.

19:44

And then you guys will edit.

Basic ya later.

You absolute take the gems out of the mix.

Absolutely.

No arguments.

I want all of that.

Oh, really?

Yeah, you know, I feel like nothing’s going to happen until somebody tell somebody the truth.

Uh-huh.

Anyway, you know, but you’ve always been an easygoing kid.

20:01

Yeah.

In the sense that, I mean, I like the way you put it in the sense that confidence allows you to be easygoing like my coat.

My boxing coach used, to always say, the least amount of fights are happening inside the gym, because everybody knows how to fight.

20:17

All right, right.

Right, right.

Yeah.

Everybody’s fighting moves on the outside.

I’m trying to prove something.

Yes.

Yeah.

And what school did you go to?

You went to a public high school and dating you and what was the kind of makeup of that high school?

It was probably 65 percent black.

20:35

Okay.

Yeah, maybe, even 70 and 35% is.

Well, I’ll take 30% was white and then we have 5% and probably Persian Jules.

I know that.

Okay, seems strange and dating but there was like Armenian Camp Persians you to camp.

20:54

Just coming up is probably grown since similarly, where I’m from.

There was a gigantic popularity, currently still is a huge population of Chaldeans, which almost nobody in the rest of the country.

Knows what Chaldeans are, which are Christian Iraqis.

21:09

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kind of like Persian Jews.

Yeah.

I think it goes against what you’re expecting.

Okay.

So your dad’s somehow is friends with the drummer of the Ohio Players or many of the Ohio Players.

Nope, particularly.

You don’t remember the higher players, their skin type dude, dude, named things, but they were huge.

21:33

Right?

Yeah.

I mean, I have to imagine they’re huge S2 in Dayton, Ohio or Ohio.

Well, at the, at the point they came along.

Yeah, they were the first big success.

So yeah.

And are they from Dayton specifically, definitely.

21:48

Okay.

And by the way you what are you 50 miles from Cincinnati?

Hmm, 45 minutes.

Yeah.

In are you going there at all as a kid?

This isn’t it?

Yeah, is that like, we would drive into Detroit?

That was our like, let’s go downtown, to be honest.

I drove to Detroit more often.

Oh, you did.

22:04

And I did Cincinnati.

Okay, I feel like that’s a real feather in our hat.

So your dad is friends with the drawing.

Do I have this right?

Your dad’s friends with one of the Ohio Players?

Yeah, Jimmy dumb and specifically.

Yes, Jimmy Diamond.

Which by the way, what a great nickname to have, if you’re a drummer diamond.

22:20

Yeah, they had their houses but at each other, oh, really?

Backyards.

Yeah, okay.

As children always children.

Yeah.

Okay.

And so, you start playing the drums at seven years old somewhere in there.

Yeah.

22:36

Yeah, who knows?

What’s Lauren what’s real?

But it sufficed to say when you were young.

You start playing the drums.

That’s the first instrument.

Yep.

And is that inspired by having met Jimmy Diamond would definitely was my, my father’s stories.

You know, I mean, I’d meet these people but they wouldn’t, it was nothing as exciting as like listening to Stories about these Lee.

22:55

Yeah, that was my big thing is like, how it sets up cinematically.

Yeah, he’s really into that.

Yeah, at a young age, you’re romanticizing total Musicians, music, and the whole scene.

Yeah, everything for me was, you know, I kind of a synthesis like I’d hear it and it just made sense all of a sudden it like if I could hear it in a setting, a story color of it, you know, and then then I was inspired.

23:22

Uh-huh, like just meeting people.

Well, didn’t it didn’t mean as much, right?

Like, if I walked away from here now, like I’ve heard, I would remember karstens LA Dodgers hat on how she got that.

What that meant.

Dax is blue shirt.

Uh-huh.

I’d read.

23:38

Probably remember, more about Kristen for me and honest.

I’m imagining about you than I did.

Oh, really?

My assumption was that?

You’d never heard of me, when we asked you to do this.

No.

I kind of operate with a nice point to sell.

23:54

Steamer, I just assume there’s no way, you know, who I know I know about you primarily because of the commercials, but they were so funny to me.

I was like, who are these people?

Right?

Yeah.

They think a lot of people who the fuck are these people?

24:11

He’s near Christmas sweaters.

So I look good.

Yeah, it if you don’t know who we are, the commercial like we don’t ever say Samsung.

Yeah, so it would be confusing because you’d be like, oh, they’re not even talking about the product.

Or just watching these two people live.

They must be some people write is that was at the thought process.

24:29

Totally.

Because I hadn’t, I hadn’t seen your movies and your anything.

And then that made me look, you up.

Oh, yeah, because my girl thought you would save some other guy, Zach Braff from Scrubs.

I bet she’d some guy with a crooked nose.

What lady doesn’t look?

No one will say.

24:46

Oh, that’s that’s very common.

Movies and I do an impersonation of see that.

Have you ever like have you ever seen bottle rocket?

No.

Oh God.

It’s almost his first movie and hook that it’s the best by far and it’s Wes Anderson’s first movie and almost has a lion.

25:06

There.

He goes.

Oh Mouse.

Want mom and son, Jim Grant kitchen good.

It’s pretty good.

Right?

Good.

I meant to ask you about Groundlings.

All right.

Yeah, that’s kind of how I started.

I got here going.

Oh, I want to do comedy.

25:22

I came to do stand-up.

Up, and then I was too afraid to do stand-up.

And I heard, oh, I could do sketch comedy.

And then you’re kind of with some people to share the responsibility.

So I auditioned for that and I hadn’t acted and then I, yeah, I went through that program, which took four or five years and then just fell in love with writing and acting and all those things.

25:41

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, did you take a class at the ground?

Oh, it’s just, I’m really into the comedy culture.

Oh, you are obviously having, you know, Lenny Bruce Richard, Richard Pryor’s, big fans.

Lucy.

That’s and I just love the idea of stand up.

25:58

I love the idea of Comedy troupes, you know, there’s some weird overlap.

I’ve noticed.

So, like Kanye’s, obsessed with comedy, like Kanye’s.

Always at Largo.

He’s friends with Aziz.

There is a weird intertwining or a cross-pollination between Comedians and people in R&B.

26:17

Well, specifically like kind of R&B or yeah, I don’t see like Coldplay guys.

Eyes that long ago, you know I’m saying, I don’t know why that is Richard Pryor and Sly would like tight.

They were weirdness.

There was a well, there’s a super Outlaw nature to both far more in the black community.

26:37

Like Richard Pryor’s just he is his punk, rock as a Manchu possibly, man.

Yeah, that was obsessed with him.

And I got some of his very early stand-up routines where he was like just had a tiny little Club in somewhere in Manhattan.

Yeah, and he’s like ever suck a dick.

26:55

Wow, this dude in 1970 is like it was presumably.

Straight is just starting his that would suck a dick.

Yeah, absolutely.

That’s so awesome.

The story about 20 minutes of the most set, right?

27:10

He just says, nigger, like over and over and over 20 minutes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He’s like, I just wanted to desensitize the word.

Yeah.

Did not work.

Maybe it’s because when stand up or improv is done.

Done amazingly.

Well, there is something musical about it when there’s callbacks and everything.

27:30

Well, it’s something.

Yeah.

Well and then think of the the tradition of improvisation in jazz.

Yeah, right.

And then that is quite literally.

What you’re doing on that stage?

Two is like, okay, you’re going to take it now now I’ll take it.

Yeah, there is a lot of communication.

How about so alive?

27:45

Yeah, they are and they weirdly both suffer from the same thing, which is Monica and I have talked about this.

Monica’s at UCB person they have at times.

Tried to put comedic improv shows on TV, and they’re terrible.

28:01

Yeah, because when you’re there in person, the stakes of someone failing, or so high that it tightens everything.

So, if they deliver anything, it’s there’s a huge relief and it’s really funny.

But something happens when you view it on TV, where you go.

Oh, this was written.

So now that now the bar is way higher for what, a written sketch should be.

28:19

And likewise.

I think you can go see live jazz, and you can something can happen for 18 minutes at just fucking blows your mind, but if you heard it on an album, at might be substandard.

Yeah, absolutely agree.

Isn’t that weird?

Yeah.

Yeah, when you’re in the room, you’re kind of on your toes.

28:36

Yeah, you know, and when you’re watching something through a screen you don’t have that.

Yeah, there’s no energy to it.

Yeah.

Yeah, there’s no fear of they’re going to fail because you won’t be sharing in that with them hurt in our guys, you know, complain about never being able to catch you there, capture their favorite bands live on the recording.

28:53

Aha.

I think that’s the reason.

Yeah sure.

Also recording has evolved quite a bit right back from when Phil Spector was doing.

He had four tracks at his disposal and he’s ping-ponging and trying to get up to 16, right?

29:08

Yeah.

So everyone’s just forced to play at the same time, right?

Yeah.

And now that kind of got really broken up, right?

Yeah.

Is that for better or worse?

What school of thought are you from?

Well, I don’t think it matters.

I think the content, unfortunately.

29:24

As has suffered just simply because it you don’t necessarily see the benefit for your career to work on the craft.

And that’s why I’m so interested in Groundlings is something that still exists.

Yeah, as a is a school that someone can go through, Aha, and graduate.

29:42

Yeah.

In 2018 is kind of crazy.

Yeah, you’re right.

It is nothing like that in Music.

Nashville might be the last place where you could actually go and get an education Karina and Taught how to write a song.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you are.

29:58

So you start playing the drums and then shortly thereafter.

You start playing the bass and keyboards.

Am I correct in that order?

I think the saxophones.

Oh, right saxophone.

Yeah, which by the way, is one of my big political platform is based solely on that.

They need to bring sacks solos back.

As there with them.

30:14

I challenge you to find a successful song in the 70s and 80s.

I didn’t have a sweet sax solo and every now and then I’ll fucking hear what I’ll be listening to Steely Dan and I almost got a Pull over the car and take my pants off.

It’s so nasty and delicious.

And then they’re gone.

30:30

Yeah, he somehow got cheesy.

And I’m very upset about that.

Yeah, an 80s movies.

There’s no romantic movie where when it’s time to get wild.

Yeah, that fucking sax.

Solo comes out and just it’s the roadmap.

You agree with that at all.

30:45

Do you middle as a previous saxophone player?

You feel like it’s just what the fuck happened to the saxophone.

Well, some of that was inappropriate sex.

Of course, that’s was kind of like fucking nasty.

You need to take a shower after that.

31:03

Sax solo.

But I love the you know, the Ray Charles sax guy.

Thinks name was King Louis or something.

That’s a good name.

King Louis.

Yeah, you better be able to fucking blow that sags and he was King Louis.

Now everybody Welcome to the stage King Louis, huh?

31:20

What the fuck?

Why are they calling King Louie?

Drape leagues, Axew.

So it is like, yeah.

Well, that almost makes you wonder if he’s really blind.

Yeah, that’s too many ads too.

Many guys are a lot of buttons on that Zach’s, right?

31:36

A couple thousand buttons on their thing here.

We know there is this weird conspiracy theory that Stevie Wonder’s not blind.

Have you seen any of those online?

No saying that go to YouTube and watch in there.

That people have compiled a couple different moments in his life where he did some uncanny shit.

31:56

One is like a He’s walking on a stage and then he somehow a guitarist and falls and he catches it.

Hmm, mind you.

I don’t think he can see I’m not at all perpetuating that that see when I can see but there is a community of people who think he can see which is hilarious.

32:15

And they have found some clips where it appears.

He can see.

I think there’s evidence for the fact that he’s really blind.

Well, did you ever see that movie?

The Prestige?

About the magician.

Yes.

I’m good, right?

Oh top 10 for me.

32:31

I’ve I can watch him right now.

If you go fuck this interview, let’s watch for CJ, stand up and put it back.

Yeah.

So if you remember one of them, The Magicians, they idolize him because he never broke character.

He lived it on the walk to the theater.

He lived in his house.

Right?

So Stevie Wonder would be the ultimate Prestige.

32:49

Yes, even if he wasn’t buying, you have to respect the commitments.

We got–we sidetracked.

So you started playing the saxophone.

And the fact that you said you don’t you didn’t have a lot of friends as a kid.

Yeah, I think that lends itself really nicely to probably sitting in your bedroom and learning something.

33:08

Is that what happened?

Absolutely learning instruments.

At least growing up the friends.

I had who got really proficient at an instrument or folks who did like spending a lot of time in their room by themselves isolating.

Because you almost got to do that, to get great at something, don’t you?

33:25

Yeah, I think so.

So and I know you’re saying your childhood was absolutely perfect.

But do you think it all those sessions of learning and practicing were was an escape from anything?

But yeah, my mom would agree with you that she felt like there were I was escaping music itself.

33:44

Wasn’t just an escape from the environment.

Yeah that she had helped to create right?

I think she feels some guilt about that because you could classify me as a probably a recluse.

Okay point in my life, Jen.

Yeah, but I do think that you need some Solitude with within which to work and yeah, to particularly do the repetitive kind of work that it takes to become good at anything.

34:09

Yeah, and you know, what’s funny is so I didn’t have it with an instrument but things would get hectic at home.

And I did have this ritual where I would go and I’d get on a ten-speed bike and I go up to my elementary school and it was this very, very tight band of sidewalk that went around the entire length of it and I would ride this BMX bike is fast.

34:27

Fast as humanly possible in a circle.

And it took all my concentration not to like crash into the wall, and I would do that for a couple hours.

And then now all my hobbies are, I do Motorsports.

So to me, going to the racetrack on a motorcycle is that same exact thing where I have got to focus entirely on that moment, or I’m going to crash and there’s so much relief in that this and, and being prepared for that moment.

34:52

Like it’s like improv, you know, you constantly practicing to look like you’re doing it on the Fly.

Yes, right.

Yeah, so you’re playing music.

And now this was just a guess for me, because when I would try to encourage people to check you out back in 2004 5, to me, I thought you were the closest thing to prints that I had as a kid.

35:13

Did you like Prince?

Did you worship him?

I love friends.

Yeah.

I mean, he’s it right?

I think princess is the best recording artist.

America has produced.

Well, I like that state overall.

Yeah, that’s great.

Well, that he’s done.

35:29

And now that you’re old like me, isn’t it even doubly mind-boggling that he was making those albums as a kid.

I mean, he was so young, right?

Yeah.

He was.

I think he started 17.

Yeah.

Well, how old is he in Purple?

Rain?

Like he was older than me.

So, I was a kid.

I was like, oh, he’s in a doll, but now I realized, like, the star Purple Rain Is a child.

35:49

What 84 was where we ran?

So he’s 25. 20 25.

Yeah.

Yeah, and he’s already written.

Purple Rain.

Yeah.

Not, yeah, it’s intimidating.

It makes me feel terrible about myself about a song like Darling.

36:05

Nikki is a beautiful beautifully arranged song is nasty and righteous.

Yeah.

Yeah, and he wrote that at 2400.

So where you immediate on the prince train?

Did you, were you like early in on it?

36:20

Yeah, that was probably one of my biggest Inspirations other than the local groups.

My father really got me into Prince.

Leon.

Uh-huh, and I used to tell the story all the time about him, waking me up middle of the night and just like it.

Look, look, look you can be like this.

36:36

You can be like this.

Oh, really back of the album.

So your dad felt like you had some kind of gift.

Yeah.

Because I was constantly beating on shit.

Uh-huh.

Rhythmic were you singing?

I wasn’t singing.

You are.

Yeah, that’s scary.

Right?

It was my least favorite thing to do.

Uh-huh.

36:51

Even still what I’m catching up now, uh-huh.

Probably, do that more than I do anything else now.

But then I just didn’t, it didn’t make sense to me.

So, the obvious parallels to me about you and Prince are your both whatever you’d call it multi musician.

37:09

Will you play a bunch of different instruments?

Right as did he and you guys have a similar singing style I guess.

But to me the thing that you guys both have in Spades is there’s so much sexuality to both your musics.

37:26

Oh, you agree?

With that.

Yeah, I appreciate that.

Yeah, your shit is super sexy.

It is.

It is, right.

Yeah, like you put it on.

You feel like you’re a fucking and that’s a weird hard thing to capture.

It’s very rare.

37:42

It’s very visceral.

Yeah, it is very visceral.

And I think that for, I feel like it comes from that transition from the sharecropper Blues to like Blues.

We all know like Muddy Waters, Howlin Wolf.

Those guys were trying to Overtly sexual, Aha, and their music.

38:00

And I do think that that that was what Prince was about as well or Al Green.

Yeah.

Where I think mine was more of an emergent, kind of thing.

You know, it was still Blue Collar kid.

And yeah.

Yeah.

And you know, in my in my house, you know, like I said, everything was so insular and I was kind of isolated.

38:20

So I was just trying not to make too much noise, you know plan everything is kind of, not just not not mellow, but Subtle, you know, and so it’s intense in that way.

And that there’s so much that I have to say, but I can’t say it too loud.

Yeah, so it comes off as kind of the same.

38:38

A similar thing.

I’m not necessarily trying to be sexually any more than like maybe Curtis Mayfield.

Maybe he’s also very fucking, you know what I mean, but I think he was trying to make a point with his music different kind of Point.

Yeah, we’re Prince, you know, if you wanted to be sexual, that’s what he was going to be.

38:56

Yeah, but none like him.

A life and in the music being very confident sexually is a pretty rare thing.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, and so it takes a lot of confidence to go down that lane as a musician.

Yeah, and were you conscious of it?

39:12

You’re like, I’m committing to this or you were just being you and it happened to be sexual.

I just happened to be inspired by Prince.

Okay?

And Jimi Hendrix and all very insects.

Especially Muddy Waters and Sugarfoot from the Ohio Players and like muddy.

Otters and sugar for weren’t sexual many were hard men.

39:30

Like they drink.

They drink whiskey, you know, and they just made music in these dark kind of almost done.

Janine’s.

Slave, sex places.

Yeah, we got kind of, you know, just again and it’s going to give a very romantic view of it all.

39:46

Like I kind of do so that.

Yeah, they become archetypes right here.

Like they’re kind of gangster.

They’re kind of gnarly.

They’re all these things.

It’s funny to how much we incorporate the what We those details and why we like a musician or not like yeah and right.

40:01

Yeah.

Because I have liked in the past people who are probably not that great, but they have something they have this like, yeah, they feel some romantic notion.

I have of a certain type of person.

Yeah.

Absolutely man, and I was into Punk for the same reason and just like particular kinds of Point me the way I love the Stooges and I love Bad Brains and it sounded hard.

40:23

Do you like fish bone?

Well, I got into the fishbone late.

I actually became pretty cool to all really because we were kind of the same age and uh-huh.

And they were always on Lovely fish.

Lovely compliments.

And they were one of the, probably, the best life group I’ve ever seen.

40:40

Yes.

I’ve seen him live a couple times, and it’s incredible.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, I love them.

So, I’m going to kind of fast forward.

So you’re playing music in high school.

Are you, are you popular?

Are you doing your own thing?

And you’re you’re a musician?

Who’s both?

40:56

I was told I was Popular.

And so you’re cute.

I just had to help and try it.

I tried to take advantage of that as much as I should.

Yeah, but still I loved being alone.

Yeah, I loved walking alone.

You know, did you in high school?

Are you drinking or smoking pot?

41:12

Ernie.

That really, no, not at all.

I tried.

We just teen and then my mom was like you have to promise me that you’re not gonna do that and it’s like, okay, so I didn’t.

Yeah, I tried it again.

When I was 27.

That sucked.

Wow.

That was working on this incredible song.

41:30

I smoked.

I went upstairs.

I came back to listen and I swear the song sounded like fucking Magnum p.i.

That’s not what you want to hear.

Well, but they didn’t eat a lot of songs could easily sound like Magnum.

41:47

P.i., Ringing down.

And you didn’t you weren’t in drinking though.

I am now.

Okay.

I wasn’t that I just didn’t interesting.

I would Uh-huh.

It wasn’t past given to me.

I had a similar thing.

So I I knew my dad was an alcoholic.

42:04

So I purposely was not drinking.

All my friends are drinking and then finally in 11th grade.

I’m like I’m doing this, I do and I had to sit down with my mom because I had that kind of relationship with my mom as well.

Was like, I was dead honest with her all the time and I can look, I know you don’t want me to do this, but I need to find out myself.

Yeah, with them, very short time.

42:20

The police were at my house one morning and it forced me to lie.

About the night before.

So I could basically we had, we had driven through this, dude’s gate in a truck and game a long job and bla bla bla.

42:38

What we had decided.

There’s three of us that this, it would be least hard to prove if one of us didn’t have a story.

So the story was I was blacked out in the backseat and missed the whole thing, which wasn’t true but we’re like, oh no, the cops can only talk to two people.

There’s this proved fruitful.

42:53

We never got tried with anything, but I had to perpetuate this line.

Mom, she was like, Mom.

I don’t remember what happened.

I was in the backseat passed out, cold of my car.

And then apparently we were in a truck blah, so she rightly was very concerned.

She’s like you cannot you can’t drink now in my you just can’t until you graduate and I said, okay.

43:12

And I didn’t like you.

I just listened to my mom.

Yeah, and I graduated and I mean promptly became an alcoholic.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Okay, so, you know, Marty so you you graduate high school and then you moved to Texas.

Yeah.

We moved to, Texas.

It’s the whole family.

43:28

Did you and your mom?

Well, my mom and her new husband and The Stepbrother told you about who got into the big ears flying in.

Yeah, white powder.

Yeah snort it’s like yeah.

Okay.

I would have loved to have met him in the 90s.

43:43

Oh what town in Texas.

Do you move to Arlington?

Hmm, which now they have all the big Arenas there and you’re right, but then there was nothing good place to move know, right?

Sundaram, like bugs.

43:59

Did you get a chance to go over to Austin at all while you live there?

No, you’ve sense.

I assume bam.

I have, you know, obviously, to play to me if I had to say a City Vibe wise was your Alter Ego.

I would say, Austin, if I had to pick a city that keep hearing, that feels to me, like, very similar to your just general artistic Vibe.

44:22

I keep in him and you know, the saying there is Keep Austin Weird, right?

That’s on all the bumper sticker.

That’s their like City.

Motto is Keep Austin Weird, and I would say keep van weird.

If I had to make give you a bumper sticker Beast, a weird and sexual.

44:43

So you left Texas at what age should go to Atlanta.

Then I left there at 17.

Okay, because my mom wanted Monica’s from Atlanta, by the way, if you guys need to start speaking Atlanta Atlanta in Atlanta, speak behind my back, feels lunch.

I’ll just do not be to derive it.

45:00

Oh, you can say whatever you need to say about it.

It’s really, okay.

Well mom was he had this whole idea of fantasy me going to Morehouse rylands.

And so I went there for a year.

Uh-huh.

And what were you and going to study or what?

45:16

We?

I wanted to say economics.

Only because I knew they didn’t have an economics department.

So I figured that would get me, you know, set up some kind of frustration attention, okay?

Okay, get out of there.

Interesting.

So I wanted to major in Naval Warfare.

45:33

I did not had to leave because they didn’t have it and either both snore access to water.

So that was a short lived thing and good or bad experience in your year in college.

I discovered black elitism.

Chad had never seen to be honest and Midwest.

45:51

Uh-huh, and I discovered homosexuality, uh-huh, which I hadn’t experienced time.

Homosexual.

But yet, you know way to the end of this interview, right?

I’m just gonna work really hard to me.

Homosexuality at that point was like, Liberace and Rock Hudson right as crazy archetype.

46:10

Yeah, exaggerated.

So to, you know, be approached in that way.

Yeah, it was a education and stuff.

So that was good.

And I think this is relevant because there’s a lot of variation regionally of the black experience at least.

46:27

From my outside perspective.

So I’m from Detroit.

Yeah, it was the whole time.

I lived there.

The black is city in the country.

It’s 92 percent black.

Yeah, I’ve super segregated.

Yeah, not a great place to be black.

If I’m just objectively.

46:42

I think it was very hard to be black.

There.

We would occasionally go to Atlanta and I would go.

Oh my God, I love this place.

There’s so many middle-class black folks.

Again.

This is all from I could be completely wrong.

But this is what it appeared to me.

The difference between you try and Atlanta was there was just Thriving, black middle class in Atlanta, or you’d see them at all, the same Chili’s chain restaurants and they got a new car and I just found that so encouraging when I was younger and I would go to Atlanta.

47:10

So does that feed into the elitism?

Well, when you’re talking about from the King family and their ties into the, the black college setting there, uh-huh, you know, they’re Elite their royalty and then it just mean the descendants of Martin Luther King.

47:26

Yeah.

Okay, okay, and then it just extends down from there.

And whoever they hand that to is in that moment.

Now the new king the new there.

The Dalai Lama.

Yeah, it’s just annoying.

Ha ha, you know, coming from a place where we literally would borrow shit from all of our neighbors.

47:46

Anything like could be, I’m having a barbecue and I need Furniture.

Yeah, I need the barbecue.

So it was it was much more.

Village.

Uh-huh.

Even as much as I didn’t necessarily have friends in the neighborhood.

48:03

We all took care of each other, right?

And in Dayton and that was that was very obvious to me even as a child.

Yeah, all of that changed.

Not only course when I went to Texas, which then I was introduced to racism or not.

Sure.

48:18

I feel like Dayton’s, a nice Middle Ground between kind of what, at least, what I saw in Atlanta versus what I saw in Detroit.

Will you say that’s true.

I think dating was much more like, Like Detroit just in terms of it.

It was a great Ralph.

Yeah.

And definitely gritty but in your particular setting like your neighbors took care of you.

48:37

Yeah, and in that setting and I appreciate it.

Yeah, you know being able to feel like I could get off the bus or walk home from school safely.

Yeah, you know, and I think that was important even sitting here talking to you.

I just, you know, Joy Bryant has no, she’s an actress.

48:52

She’s black.

We she yeah, she and I were married on a TV show for like 6 years together.

I interviewed her recently and we were talking about white privilege and how that is a hard concept, if you’re white to swallow because no one’s life feels privileged.

49:12

Right?

Like everyone’s life feels like a struggle.

Yeah, but I can tell you objectively.

Of course.

I have so much privilege.

It’s really true.

There’s so much white privilege and even hearing you say that that just clicked for me where it’s like I’ve never Wow, if I move to another part of this country, I’m going to be treated completely different.

49:32

That’s something that would not cross my mind.

Like so yeah, when you move to Texas, obviously you’re getting treated different, right?

Yeah.

The from day one, uh-huh.

Where a guy was like, Hey you black else?

Like man, who told you that?

So this was not Stevie Wonder we’d landed right on.

49:54

Uh-huh.

It was it was on like fights every day.

Day, and you know, they had never seen us, right, you know, that’s how he’s very generous way to see how you respond something that you know, you feel like is threatening.

Yes, but it was battles, you know, so I the school that you went to in Arlington.

50:13

What was the percentage there?

That was black?

Yeah.

They actually bust in black kids from what was an area called Grand Prairie.

Okay, where if your hip hop head, DJ Premier came from DJ Premier?

Yeah, my only Texas hip-hop.

I It was the Geto Boys.

50:28

Oh, they’re what they’re from Fifth Ward.

Yeah, he’s yeah, that’s awesome.

Oh, I love gangster, buddy.

I could say I can sing every single lyric on.

Every one of those battles Ghetto.

Boys, The Originals of is insane like that stuff.

Came out now songs about like serial killers exactly December 1st, 1966, a damn fool was born with the mind of a lunatic.

50:52

I showed up and killed but system fucked around and let me live like who’s writing.

My rap song about being a twisted serial killer, which would be like all Bushwick Bill is on another man’s getting on his knees to fuck, whether like me still standing up.

51:13

He shot, someone no his.

I think his girls shot him in Detroit, weirdly.

Oh, you know, Bushwood got shot by his girlfriend.

I didn’t and I think it was in Detroit monocle.

Find out exactly where the shooting happened.

Anyways, so You move to Atlanta and now, yet a third version.

51:30

How does it differ from both Dayton and in Arlington?

Oh man, like you’re not feeling, it doesn’t sound like you’re feeling the thing.

I thought I was observing like, oh, wow.

This is a place where black folks are thriving feel that?

I think that most people even, like people felt that way about Atlanta, you know, records Peak found P-Funk records that, you know, lat the that.

51:53

Oh, really?

Yeah, the come out.

So it went that far back.

Yeah, but I mean, it was the original home of Freaknik.

No numbers in my right about that.

Yeah, I was so mad.

They shut that down before.

I could attend.

I just thought that would be a really good time.

I went.

52:11

Oh, you did.

Did you perform at one?

I didn’t perform but you’re too sexual for that Freaknik.

It would have.

It would have exploded like a hydrogen bomb.

You use sprinkle in a little fan hon, on top of an already turbocharged scenarios.

She could, you could get nasty, Lord.

52:27

Remember, we were listening NWA it like one of those Street Knicks and it was like the one with the boot.

See a sample.

Oh, uh-huh.

So, ya think Nick was nice.

Yeah.

I just I’ve been calling on Twitter for them to bring it back Freaknik.

52:43

Yeah, I’m surprised.

They wouldn’t it seems like an easy one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, they try to do a weirder higher and version of it right on an island recently.

It all went sideways.

You know, I’m trying to raise everybody.

Yeah.

It was like advertisers like luxury tents or whatever and then you saw it was like FEMA tents.

53:03

They were all sleeping in their psyche.

Did you try to go?

That would have been one of the biggest Shockers ever?

Like I said, hey, so I’m not going to be around next week.

I’m going to this luxury tent compound in the Caribbean.

53:20

Yeah.

I feel bad.

I feel like I’ve ever say enjoyed like watching the disaster of it on, then I felt really bad because it seemed pretty well intended.

And maybe.

No, it’s not.

It was always a money-making Endeavor.

It was, I’ll find out.

Yeah, we should avoid getting sued.

But at any rate, it’s been maybe best that work.

53:36

We don’t specifically name.

Which group that was I’m gonna, which is kind of cooler.

Actually.

Yeah, let them find it.

Okay, so I got I got derailed.

So you’re in Atlanta and then you you’re playing a lot.

But when I was reading about you last night, I hit the fucking ceiling.

53:53

When I found out.

You wrote hopeless.

I mean, I literally with no Way.

I can compare it.

The best thing I can compare it to.

So you like The Sopranos?

Yeah, definitely love The Sopranos.

I had only loved one TV show prior to The Sopranos and that was Northern Exposure, right?

54:09

Okay.

Yeah, it.

Did you ever see that show.

That’s a lot of Utah.

Okay.

So I love Northern Exposure and I fucking worship Sopranos and I thought these two things have nothing in common.

Why are these?

The two shows?

I like so I one time watch Sopranos with the commentary from the the Creator David Chase.

Yeah.

54:25

And during that is he Happens to mention like, well, that was I got the idea for sopranos back when I was the head writer on Northern Exposure and I went no way.

That’s why I love those two things.

I love David Chase.

Yeah.

So when I loved hopeless, oh my God, I love that song.

54:42

Yeah.

I’m the she The Love Jones soundtrack.

Yeah.

My good friend.

Ken Kennedy was the first to buy that CD Love Jones and I had a whole summer of Love Jones in kid.

Again, can arguably the best name in the biz.

So, but because this dovetails nicely into that, that’s the first song you, right.

55:03

Is it the first thing you write and sell?

It’s the first one that’s published.

That’s published.

Yeah, and how do you go from your at this college?

You don’t want to be yet to actually getting into it professionally.

Oh God.

So, um, like my last year in Arlington, very nice kid.

55:21

Invites me into his family and into a studio.

Nice, Dad, who happened to be racist, but he liked me.

Yeah, that can happen, right?

Exactly happened to me a lot as well.

Yeah, it’s why it doesn’t hold water.

When guys go, like, I’m not racist.

My girlfriend’s black.

55:36

It’s like no you can be racist.

You have a black girl.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah, and so but he took a liking to me, you know, so he let me hang with his son, play on their instruments and they had a whole band thing going.

And so he the kid flew out to Los Angeles and he came back and he was like, man, these guys I met with they hated everything.

55:57

Except the songs you play.

Hmm.

And so but he said he wasn’t going to do anything with it.

But that let me know that I had a shot at maybe yeah.

Doing this shit.

So my mom was like, you’re going to go to Atlanta.

I was like, okay, I’m going to study economics knowing that that was gonna like yeah blow up and so I didn’t know what was in Atlantis.

56:18

It was shit.

Got to be more than what’s in Arlington.

Yeah, so I go there and I spent a year in school and then I’m looking around the scene and I get a job with this.

This janitorial service, uh-huh, but the lead the president of the law of janitorial.

Service runs a record company.

56:34

Oh, no kidding.

Yeah, uh-huh.

We hires me and he’s, it sounds like shit.

You see a Nashville.

Yeah, that’s how it has to be, everyone’s somehow, and he’s paying me like hundreds of dollars a week.

He’s and he’s like playing like Office Buildings.

Yeah.

56:50

He’s taken. $25 out of my my cash and he’ll tell you like what don’t you want to pay your taxes?

You need to be attack.

Those kind of conversation, but he’s paying you under the table.

I see ya.

57:05

There ain’t ever going to be any taxes.

Well, you know, yeah, responsible.

Anyway, leave school and he introduces me to a bunch of guys, in a little local hip-hop scene.

Uh-huh.

That was just really burgeoning at that and you get on with people, easy.

57:23

No, but, you know, the music speaks for itself, cannot Confident in the music in rising Rising and so long as we’re in the room.

We’re making music.

I’m fine.

Yeah, so I got on with a couple guys and one of them wind up in prison, for another cocaine thing are and when he left he was supposed to go and meet another connection who was going to hook us up with our own Studio.

57:50

Uh-huh.

So I call him because we’re going to ride over there.

Together, the police answer the phone.

Great.

And they’re like, no, Keith is busy.

58:11

I know where he’s going where we were supposed to go.

So I catch the bus and go over to this studio.

And I meet with the guy was very nice guy in Victory, and he essentially brings me into his home.

His family, lets me run his Studio really well.

58:27

Really learned how to record.

Wow.

And so I mean I did so many rap demos with like the Jermaine Dupri’s the Dallas Austin’s, plc’s the escapes and watch TLC stuff.

So it was you tell me you worked on water fall.

58:43

I’m gonna fall, I’m gonna oh, no, I’m just I just want to say waterfall but it’s cool when you know, Dallas and Jermaine Dupri, I don’t know much about him.

He’s hyper talented.

58:58

Yeah, successful.

Yeah, Criss-Cross and all that.

But, you know, they were using me to like, hey, can you put our show taped together, you know, little things like that, which was really proving ground for me.

Yeah.

And Bobby Brown’s coming through the studio reality and, you know, Nick in the way, the studio was set up, it was way in the back of a rehearsal Studio.

59:19

Uh-huh.

So they would all come and rehearse and then come and chill back.

Dear rehearse to go on tour.

Yeah, okay, and then come and chill.

Back there in the studio.

Yeah, and so hear all these stories and sometimes they you know, hey, can you do a be with my nephew?

You know, so that’s how you’re getting the scraps.

59:37

Exactly.

Yes, and that’s such an important thing for people to hear.

Like you just gotta like, if you have a desire to be involved in any one of these industries, that’s almost impenetrable.

Yeah, you just got to take what you can fucking get and get around it.

Right?

Yes.

Like I think people think they got to be a star.

59:53

They got to be this or that.

It’s like no.

You just got to be around it.

Yeah, right.

Absolutely.

Lutely, especially, if you’re confident, yeah, you know, you feel like your stuff is quality and it can compete, why not?

And you have a four track at home.

Are you, are you putting your own music together?

1:00:09

No, at this point.

The only time I’m working on recording equipment is inside the studio, but I’m essentially living at the studio.

Okay?

Yeah.

Yeah, so he had a little, a track reel to reel.

Oh.

And he also had a 4-track.

Okay, which Dallas is engineer took a liking to me.

1:00:27

Why do people like you Maria?

Mia said this almost all your stories about someone.

Take making your family member within 10 minutes.

From beeping, you know, people do take into consider, but it’s true.

Don’t be a fucking.

Yeah, I was so busy trying to impress everyone.

I met at that age, that I don’t think anyone ever took me under their wing.

1:00:44

And I, all right.

Now you got it.

All figured out how shy he went.

You go fucking do it.

Bang your head against the wall.

Well, I think I was quiet too.

Yes, I wasn’t threatening in that way.

Hmm, and they said he figured, you know, he does good work.

Work and he keeps his mouth shut.

Yeah.

So those are people underestimate those qualities.

1:01:02

They really do underestimate non-threatening.

Yes, very.

Yeah, big skill.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So how do you end up writing hopeless?

Right?

So, like I said, they’ll say I’m hopeless, hopeless.

All plays, only talk about Nana panty, with a whole, I’m the worst singer, but I will sing his song over.

1:01:23

I love that.

That’s one of the best things about Detroit shows, there’s so many people thought they were saying, yeah, that sounds right onto the audience is going away.

Well, we drink a lot in Detroit to it kind of makes you look confident.

1:01:42

Yeah.

Sure.

Sure.

Do you get asked, or do you put on your selling shoes?

Like, how do you, how do you end up in that scenario to?

Okay, right hopeless.

Okay.

So, Dallas’s, engineer shows me how to engineer does.

A lot of stuff for me and introduces me.

To Dion and her DNA, Ferris, who sang the song, and who is from Arrested Development?

1:02:02

Exactly.

Which, by the way, I didn’t even know that until I was reading, I love to rest developed Dallas’s, engineer hit, had engineered their first hit Tennessee.

Oh, yes, he turned me on to them.

Yeah and they came and saw my band rehearse at that.

Same rehearsal Studio.

1:02:17

Okay, and she was like, I hate your band like you.

Wow, and then I’m I’m being a loyal guy.

Go to the engineer like You know, she doesn’t want my band.

She wants me.

What you think.

Yeah, like what the fuck?

Do you think that you gotta move roll with what’s rolling?

1:02:34

Ah, you’re bad a rolling while it’s a daddy and that is the cliche story of every musician.

Right?

Is that a certain point?

They kind of try to peel you off?

Yeah, and you gotta roll what it say that again.

What do you see?

How to roll it was rolling?

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

So and is she at that moment.

1:02:51

She was saying she likes you.

Is she thinking specifically?

I want you to write something for me or something.

She wants to collaborate with.

She just wanted me in her bed.

Okay, she had just finished her.

She may be also want to have dinner with you, or no?

No, no.

Okay, really?

It’s a bummer.

I guess.

1:03:07

I don’t really know what she looks like juice.

Cute.

Oh, that’s a bummer.

Yeah, she married or something else leaves wrong with this woman here.

So you want to go to dinner with you?

Yeah, so she was really nice though.

Yeah.

And a couple years older than me, which, you know, at 22 just like, might as well be in a lifetime.

1:03:24

Yeah, and you, Do you guys write?

You write hopeless?

Knowing it’s already gonna be on that soundtrack, or do you write it and then it somehow ends up on that soundtrack?

Okay, so I go with her and her A&R guy who was Randy Jackson, right?

1:03:40

This time something else.

I learned last night.

Yeah, he’s just a guy at that point with a very big voice and he’s like, hey, I like somebody to stuff some constantly run around Plant songs people here in there.

1:03:56

Yes, I like you stuff.

Tough.

Maybe you should give it D on and just see if she’ll do most of my stuff.

So I gave her a bunch of songs.

I just happened to pick that one.

Oh wow, and we were so you had written that for yourself.

I had written it for actually somebody who kind of sounded like Donny Hathaway because it’s song Always sounded like Donny Hathaway to me with the roads and ha ha, you know, so I was like anybody who sells like at this point.

1:04:19

I still hate singing.

Okay.

So anybody who sounds like Daniel who have my get this song to write but Randy who’s an ex?

A ni is way better at are on and he’s ever done anything else but nobody knows that he is.

Yeah, okay, because I gotta say a, my introduction to Randy Jackson was through American Idol.

1:04:37

Yeah, and I was always going, are they telling us?

This guy is super tech because he’s his notes to me.

Didn’t seem terribly helpful.

You know, I’m saying?

Like when Harry Connick jr.

Came on.

Yeah.

I was like, oh, that guy’s clearly a musical genius like the way he would break shit down.

1:04:54

And in fact, my wife who also is a musical genius.

Genius.

She would hear the thing and she go.

Oh, he’s flat on this.

And then he’s sharp here and he blah blah.

And I’m like, pure full yourself.

And then Harry Connick would say the exact same thing and she would like do a backflip.

She’d be so excited.

But anyways, I’m glad to hear you say.

1:05:10

Randy Jackson was legitimately awesome at his job because I just didn’t know if I was being told.

Well, I would be IV into, I didn’t really know who Jimmy Iovine was when he joined American Idol, but then I saw the defiant ones.

Now, I think he’s a genius.

Yeah, and I think that you would need to spend time with Randy for him.

1:05:27

To show you Israel, his secret sauce, uh-huh.

Yeah, because I me, but a gregarious likable guy, right?

You must have been so attracted to what he’s a, he’s a bigger than life figure.

Even then I would imagine.

Yeah, but what I recognized early on was that all of that is I kind of presentation gives to people because he’s a shy person.

1:05:47

Oh, he is.

Yeah.

Oh, and Trust his way of disabling, you know, the the confront confrontation with People is to be aggressive.

Aha, so I learned that from him.

Yeah, and I started doing that for myself and it helps, you know, yeah.

1:06:04

When I meet people like, hey, how you doing?

You know?

Yeah you come out on ya and it kind of allows you to arrest the situation.

Yes.

And until you can get comfortable.

So that’s what he does.

Right and but if you you know, actually hang with him for a minute, you know, an hour in he starts dropping Jim’s.

1:06:24

Aha.

Do you know, maybe you ought to do this and he gets Real with you really really fat and he just has incredible instincts.

Would you say this is given greatest.

I’ve been around.

Right?

Yeah, that’s cool.

And he eventually becomes your manager.

Yeah.

Yeah, so you guys are tight.

1:06:40

Definitely.

Okay.

So hopeless happens.

It is large.

It’s hugely successful.

Yeah, right.

And now you’re I’m assuming let me ask you are you going?

Oh fuck man.

I’m gonna be able to make a living writing music.

Is that where you’re at the at that?

1:06:57

Moment.

Is that what you’re thinking?

Are you thinking?

Oh shit.

I’m going to be able to be what, what, your ego doing right.

Now.

You being a Midwestern?

Good.

Colleague.

I like your first check.

What did you think?

I thought it’d be my last, right?

Yeah.

I still think that.

Right today sitting here.

1:07:14

Like, they’re gonna come any minute?

Go like, who are you?

Kidding, you live on a dirt road motherfucker?

Yeah, kiss her ass up.

Yeah, we caught you.

Okay.

I don’t know how you slip through the cracks, but time to go home.

So you have that too definitely.

1:07:29

Okay, so your but but weirdly as much as I have that I also have fits of megalomania.

Yeah.

Okay, so and I and I really was thinking this between you and I, the parallels, there’s no obvious parallels between you.

1:07:46

And I your van hunt.

I’m Dax Shepard those just on the surface seem very opposite, but two-year-old divorced, three years old divorced, single mother, write all these different things Midwest.

Yeah.

I had experiences in early in my career where I thought, oh, wow, so, okay.

1:08:02

So this is really going to happen.

I’m going to be Adam fucking Sandler.

The first movie.

I was in cause 19 million and made 60.

It was seen as a very big success.

In fact, Adam Sandler’s said, oh, do you want to write something for our company and that all happened?

Yeah, so my butt.

1:08:19

So my my ego did go fucking Bonkers and I was like, oh, so I’m about four more steps away from being Adam Sandler.

Yeah.

Of course.

I was not for steps for being Adam Sandler.

And I feel like any any of these Endeavors and be it music or acting, or whatever?

1:08:36

It is.

You’re constantly evaluating.

Where am I?

Where am I going?

What’s now, reload?

What is it?

You know, so did you have that?

Because you had lots of moments in your life where you must have thought.

Oh God.

Damn.

I’m going to be printed.

Well, it’s complex because at no point I try to explain this to my girlfriend thinks I’m crazy.

1:08:57

But at no point, do I ever lose the confidence that I’m on the level with Prince, right?

And even more?

So somebody like the loneliest monk which to me is yeah, you’re the roof.

Yeah.

So at no point.

Did I lose confidence that I’m Angus T like manga on that level?

Yes, Lord.

1:09:13

I love his book to.

Yeah, but they’re seeing a documentary about him.

Like moving out of his, he’s got this huge Loft and he’s got to move out, but he just physically incapable of moving out there.

See that?

Gradually, Mitch.

I can’t remember who else is in it, but we used to watch it a ton when I lived in Detroit.

1:09:30

And he so scatterbrained.

He’s such a genius, Charlie Mingus and he’s being evicted from this huge space.

He has and he’s there to get all of his shit out, but he can’t help himself from going through the history of it all.

And then I’ll get really derailed and then we’ll just walk over to the base and just play it for 35 minutes.

1:09:48

Then he walks back.

He never accomplished it.

That they end up like the police just throw a shit on the sidewalk.

That’s like the end of the thing.

He’s just staying there with Neons is while but to watch his brain work and watch how he’s moving through the world, you know, he’s he was probably artistic to the point where he couldn’t function.

1:10:05

So well, yeah.

Okay.

So you you always have the confidence that you are.

Ultimately talented.

Yeah, and you have a voice.

Yeah, which is to me.

Crystal clear.

You have like a point of view.

Yes.

Yes, however, the idea that I can articulate that to an audience.

1:10:22

Hmm.

I don’t have that confidence.

Oh, okay.

And I don’t have the confidence that once I’ve articulated through the point, even if I can that they’re going to receive the point and then receive it and due process it in a way in which it returns, as some kind of Revenue stream for me, right?

1:10:41

So, yeah, monetizing.

This Yang is hard.

Yeah, I’ve never had confidence that I am capable of doing that.

So, if it wasn’t going to be somebody else doing it, uh-huh, that wasn’t going to happen for me, right?

I erased.

Jackson in a way, yeah, or even, even to a larger extent, the musical industrial complex.

1:11:02

Yes, because from my point of view when you had dust in seconds of pleasure that we’re getting radio play, right?

You’re nominated for a Grammy off of dust.

Right your first album.

Yeah, to me at that moment.

1:11:17

It seems you and John Legend or on the exact same path.

Sure.

You think of him as a peer?

You think about him at all?

Well, Jonas from The date metropolitan area.

So he is playing field.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

Was one of the first people along with Kanye and Questlove from the roots to reach out and say, hey, I’d like what you’re doing.

1:11:39

Oh, how cool doing it.

I mean, and you need to hear that.

Yeah.

As a young person coming up and they were all really, really good with that.

I appreciated that.

And so John actually had me come over and help him produce a song.

1:11:56

Here and there and so will you all you eventually?

You teamed up with him and just yes, and did Family Affair later?

Right?

And we hooked up before and after that.

I did think that we were on the same trajectory, but John much like D’Angelo is, is more integrated with the culture at the time, what the Zeitgeist and pop.

1:12:21

Yeah, John on the pop side and the angel on the hip-hop side.

Yeah, then I Was I’m a guy I’m somewhere between printing the still.

You’re not.

Yeah, you’re not fitting nicely into one of the categories.

We’re not sure what station we should play you on.

Right?

1:12:36

We’re not.

Yeah, and I got that.

Yeah, and you were comfortable with that or if you like things like badge for me.

I was just that.

That’s just where I think really, you must wish.

Okay.

I’m going to be true to this angle.

I have this point of view.

I have it certainly be nice if it did break through and became and and Randall friends because what the fuck were people thinking, I’m with Prince, but he just forced everyone to go.

1:12:57

Oh, not.

You know, he created a genre I guess.

Well, it was both prints and Randy who explained to me that, you know, he had to do disco.

That’s what broke for him.

Uh-huh.

Was that he did his first record and they were like, this is great.

But now, would we going to do to erotic cities on the first know?

1:13:14

It was Bambi?

I don’t know if, you know, not Bambi.

Well, I’m trying to think of a song.

Soft and wet was on his first album, what they were any big hit.

Right?

Right, right.

It was really dirty.

It was.

Well, let me just say it’s actually really musical.

1:13:30

Okay, but he had song like jack me off or something.

No, that was only a dirty man.

Our oh, okay.

Okay.

Now, for my mom, who’s the least censoring human being, you could possibly have as a parent.

We, I was allowed to look at Playboy when I was like nine at the kitchen table.

1:13:46

She didn’t care.

She like minute.

He’s fine.

Weirdly.

I got prints and Little Red Corvette.

I got mice.

My uncle gave me the album, and then I went to the tapes.

Store and I’m like, I’m going to get everything this guy’s ever made and then I got dirty mind.

My brother told them, he went to my mom’s, a, you got to look at the names of these songs on the back of this cassette tape and she read.

1:14:08

It was like, jack me off or whatever.

And she’s like, I don’t think you need this tape.

I actually had to return that tape.

Anyways, that’s why I thought it was super special.

Well, the second album though.

He’s sitting on the horse naked.

Yeah, which is a great look.

1:14:23

Yeah, in general.

And so that’s when he’s At Bambi and he had his first hit, which is escaping me right now, but it was a kind of it was playing off of disco, which was hot at the time.

Okay, he evidently hated disco, but he knew that was what he had to do to get song on the radio.

1:14:40

Yeah, and that worked for him.

Yeah.

Well while to tell him I come along it’s either integrate with something very, very more syrupy.

Uh-huh.

I don’t know, Britney Spears, right?

Whatever is happening at the in sync.

Sure, you know, which John could do?

1:14:55

He’s more easily than I could my on The Hip Hop side.

The Angela could do more easily than I could.

Yes.

It wasn’t really a place for me to tie into.

Yes, and Randy was very articulate about that in explained.

It to me is like, you know, at this point you can try and tie into this really, really change your sound, or you can just kind of, hold on what you’re doing.

1:15:18

Yeah, she needs to do it until maybe we get you in here.

Maybe later.

Mmm, and you might just become Each artist.

But you may not make as much money as some of these other guys, but I don’t know.

It depends on how important the music is to you.

1:15:33

Yes.

And so you feel like you made a decision like an Exacta said I do.

Because he put it to me that way, right?

I always appreciate when you go, I’m just gonna do me.

Yeah, exactly, right?

Yeah, you regret that at all.

No, you don’t.

Okay.

Good.

No, but yeah, are you obsessed with money at all?

1:15:53

That’s terribly.

And I keep eyes way too much.

Brain space for me.

Like you worried about not having it.

Yeah, I’ll say yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And whatever amount I think I could get that will make me feel safe.

Every time I’ve gotten that amount.

1:16:09

I don’t feel safe.

There’s a new amount.

I’m convinced if I had, like, when people go, why do these billionaires keep working?

They were have a billion Tyrell a time.

Like, I bet if I had a billion, I’d feel broke.

Are you the person that over buys?

No, no.

No.

I’m very frugal.

1:16:25

Do you have a, like, a lot of bars of soap, you know?

Yes, I love, love love stockpiling.

What a great thing to ask me.

Oh, accurate.

It really is.

In fact, they make fun of me at the house non-stop, because if we get below, like, 12 rolls of paper towel, I’m panicked.

1:16:42

I am Panic.

So, my lady’s very similar.

She came from a household where the scarcity was real.

Yes.

Yes.

Oh, that’s what that translates.

And yeah, into that in my dream world, there would be a warehouse on this piece of property.

So that would just be Costco.

Yeah, everybody is no place.

1:16:59

I feel more comfortable than walking into Costco.

I there’s a lifetime of soap in here and it’s not like a scarcity, wasn’t the same.

In my household.

My mother again, Pisces, my father of Pisces.

They dealt with these things.

Very, very different.

1:17:14

Okay.

This is like, oh, take a shower with your grandmother’s.

Uh-huh.

Okay, I’ll take you over to Isaac’s later.

You like him.

You like his dog?

You like a shower, right?

Be very very much more relaxed now.

Okay, if I call you but that makes sense mom.

1:17:30

Well, that’s good.

So you so you weren’t motivated by money per say no or at least not in on how like the way slice is it?

I just I never wanted to have to need it.

Yeah.

1:17:46

Yeah.

And you keep your life small definitely.

Yeah.

Okay.

I’m going to this day.

You still are that I do.

Yeah, that’s the key for sure.

I think.

Yeah, it’s tempting.

Do you have any indulgences?

Is there anything you bought your like?

What was I thinking, clothes clothes?

You love clothes.

1:18:01

I don’t have a bunch of them.

I just have things that I really, really like.

Okay.

Generally expensive.

Unfortunately, it’s the world.

We live in.

Yeah, you came right out of the gates with.

So a very funky style, which I appreciate what they look like, on the cover of Van, honey.

You’re wearing a crazy hat.

1:18:18

If I recall you’re wearing a purple jacket.

Am?

I’m picturing it correctly.

Yeah.

It’s a great look but it is unique at Time and I didn’t actually understand until I came to Los Angeles, to actually do those records.

Where and they were hiring stylist.

1:18:34

Aha.

So I’m thinking I’m going to go until the styles with to get me and it’s going to be easy to find.

Yeah.

I actually, you know, I don’t know if you know about David boy or you know about this artist, but you know, that’s where your style is and that’s very expensive and it’s very easy.

Yeah.

1:18:50

Yeah.

Yeah.

That’s when I really began to understand what it was.

I liked it.

Why I liked it, uh-huh, and I don’t know, again.

I was just filling in the blanks.

When I got that album, van hunt and I looked at it to me.

I looked at the sky and I was like, this guy’s got to be from New Orleans.

1:19:07

Yeah, I felt like you had a weird like French Quarter Vibes to you.

I don’t know why that is.

It’s going good with my girlfriend was a, she laughs, because she always calls me the Frenchman, but I realized I had some crazy connection to France.

Oh, really?

1:19:22

Yeah, you do like a 23andMe thing.

How do you know you got a crazy connection?

Is that will you send your like a you spit in a cup?

And then they tell you, like, your 70% Ukrainian?

I haven’t done that.

Yeah, I haven’t either.

I thought you were going to tell me you found out.

You’re like, 80% French or something.

1:19:38

No, I just love everything right fresh from Sue’s Ginsburg.

Do they have food?

Okay, and you gone to Paris?

Yeah, if you ever fantasize about moving there?

No, no, okay, you know, like it that much force.

It’s actually really cold.

1:19:54

It’s cold and you gotta learn.

Other language.

Well, I took friends.

Oh, you did.

Yeah, I could.

Yeah.

Goodbye.

Okay, actually help.

Okay.

You could say, help.

That’s a great word to know if you get.

Yeah.

Okay, so do dust.

1:20:11

There’s a cliche music, right?

That I’ve heard, which is your first album.

You spend your whole life writing.

Yeah.

And then in success, you’re expected to write a second album like in a year.

Yeah.

Was that hard for you?

Did you have that experience?

Answer is at that.

1:20:26

Wasn’t an issue.

I think all of that is true.

Okay, but it wasn’t hard for me.

Okay, and this again, I credit my blue-collar work ethic.

Uh-huh.

Not to say that other callers don’t have work ethics.

Chef just that.

I knew going in that, that was true.

1:20:44

I probably had all my whole, my whole life to write this first record, but that my second record was lyrically at least going to be better.

Yeah, and I still believe that.

Well being a girl is again.

It’s a tongue-twister.

Twister you must have thought or did you think you had a pretty good amount of success right out of the gates?

1:21:02

Yeah.

And did you think that that was just going to continue and grow?

Or did you never think that or do you don’t think about the future?

Yeah.

I I still even because I was in on those meetings in the record company and the reason why you her dust and seconds of pleasure was because there was literally a table in Capitol Records, like we were on one side white people.

1:21:24

Now the side Like we was laying, we know Jewish folks there at the head of the table.

Well, they’re yeah, they’re headed and the black people like we’re gonna take seconds of pleasure over here in R&B radio and of white people, right?

We’re gonna take dust over to College radio and they shot them both out at the same time.

1:21:43

Yeah, and right then I knew I was in trouble because you kind of needed both sides to work together.

Yeah, when a song yeah, you’re kind of opening up a two front War.

Yeah, I doing Yeah, yeah, and there’s competition.

Now who’s gonna be the first to get their song off and yet you’re both pulling resources from each other.

1:22:02

Yeah.

So, both Randy.

And I were like, I don’t know about this video, you know, I kind of knew I was doing at that point.

Okay, forever.

Continue to ride the same Schism that Prince endured as well, but because he’s coming off of the crazy International Des.

1:22:25

Era where it wasn’t that odd to think of things Blended.

Yeah, right in.

Huh?

There’s a ton of fusion.

How exactly?

I’m right.

Yeah.

Yeah, and it’s very different.

Now after we’ve gone through crack epidemic and Clinton and NAFTA Rod.

1:22:42

Yeah, nothing’s a much more segregated and obliterated in certain areas.

Uh-huh.

It was just and he’s that slow down your how prolific you are.

No, it doesn’t know.

So you do you Right as much.

Now as you wrote back, then I the harder when you get older, right, you’re not as hungry.

1:23:00

Yeah, I don’t commit to things.

Okay, but yeah, I could literally, I can write whenever I feel like writing in his writing easy for you.

Yeah, it is and do things come to you.

I got.

Will you get a whole song downloaded in the shower, you know, or it’s usually a muscly.

1:23:17

Yeah.

And you sleep.

Yeah.

How about driving?

That’s what Stephen gonna be driving and you’ll hear what parts will you here?

So usually if I’m I’m driving and I can’t have the radio on, right?

No one can be with me.

It’s happens on the airplane to but we’ll see.

1:23:32

I’m going to join you on a couple car, right?

Yeah, man, and I’ll sit in the back seat.

I’ll be very quiet.

You won’t even know that I’ll lay down to those who sit up front with me and like tell jokes.

Like all right, it did it would come but will write a Weird Al Yankovic’s song together.

1:23:50

No.

Kenny G.

Oh yeah, Kenny G.

Yeah, Kenneth G accordion and and French horn or clarinet.

1:24:05

What does he play?

Yeah, so you’ll be driving and you here, what generally do you hear first?

Like the keyboard?

No, there isn’t a specific like that.

Fucking make it specific and I got it.

You got to explain it to my simpleton.

1:24:21

It if you can imagine what a cloud sounds like uh-huh Anna and like Of metallic, kind of spaceship poking through the cloud.

Okay.

Well you can imagine what that might sound like.

Okay, but it does actually does have a sound.

Uh-huh.

And that’s just kind of undulating Rhythm.

1:24:38

Yeah, that’s always there.

Okay.

Again rhythmically is where it all starts for me, right?

So I always hear this kind of thing, just going, let’s do it, and then I can just do whatever I want to do on that Rhythm, right?

1:24:54

So it could be Uh-huh, and then that just it’s kind of what they call ostinato and classical music.

It’s just this Motif that cycling.

Okay, and then I just right now that’s just happening in the back of your brain.

1:25:12

Right?

Like you have that.

What’s that thing you call or you can do like a loop, right?

Yes, your brain.

Has that.

Yes, so you put that on Loop and that just now, where do you go?

And so from there, we go into these kind of modalities, you know.

Yeah.

I could.

I can go with something that’s hard off of that.

1:25:28

So it’s just something soft and it’s all there for me.

And when new lyrics, enter the picture, when I want to articulate the melody, mmm, but I do you let the melody inform the lyrics.

1:25:45

Well, not necessarily.

I let the the the feeling of the music informed the lyric but sometimes the metal is that is that order?

Reverse do you ever have like you think of a great sentence or you think of it?

You jot, something down in writing you go?

1:26:03

Oh, I got a Now, find a Melody that says what this every now and then but mostly it’s music first.

Lyrics s mostly is just this kind of undulating conceptual cinematic feel for what what I’m trying to say.

1:26:19

Like, I don’t know, you remember a song called a her December from the first, uh-huh record, and that was one that I just And to remember how it came about and I just felt, I felt Christmas and I felt December.

And I felt like Christmas is always been this kind of pretty, but dark space for me.

1:26:38

Okay.

This is it only really comes alive at night, which is creepy.

Didn’t the lights shine.

And yeah, Santa’s weird man.

What do you mean?

I have heavyset guy with combat, but it’s coming down your chimney.

What, what’s weird about that?

This is super creepy to me.

White guy with a huge fear, yet.

1:26:55

You’re worried about him being in.

Midnight.

Why, right?

Oh, ho ho.

So, you know, people who liked was the Cat in the Hat and they liked wizard of all that shit scared.

1:27:10

Yeah.

That’s a pretty weird.

Yeah.

Yes.

So those things come alive for me and I started writing off of that.

Right.

Turns into kind of a concept.

Mmm Yeah, and in the frequency of that has compared It now like you’re how old are you?

1:27:27

48?

47 47.

Yeah, I’m 43.

Yeah, I’m gaining on you.

Last week.

I turned 43.

I do find that.

I was certainly a lot hungrier to, right.

Yeah.

I work probably more as a writer than an actor and that used to be so easy for me and I’m finding I don’t through having kids, whatever it is or just not as hungry.

1:27:49

It’s harder for me to right now.

Yeah, like sitting in that room.

By myself is a little more challenging.

We’ll have you ever felt.

Brighton by yourself.

I fucking hate writing.

Yeah.

Yeah, that’s what I would imagine.

Lawrence Kasdan is, Lawrence kasdan’s, very famous writer.

He wrote like jaws and Raiders of the Lost Ark.

1:28:07

One of the biggest ever in his statement on writing.

It writers are people who have agreed to do homework for the rest of their life.

And that’s exactly how I feel about writing.

Well yet I have to do it.

I’ve been doing it since I was a kid, I started writing in seventh grade short stories and you’ve written short stories as well, right?

1:28:22

Yeah, so have to do it and weirdly I find A spot in the middle of it, that I do love.

But man, it’s the starting it really that smoke.

I find to be challenging.

Yeah.

Well, I like I told you, what if you strike me as the idea person person is you sitting around with, and they’re constantly just taking you off in different places and you’re like, wait, wait, wait.

1:28:44

Wait, that’s I wasn’t even there yet.

Wait, wait.

Wait.

Okay, what about is?

Okay, and it’s quickly turns into a kind of a nest of that is, that’s true.

So, you’re dead.

Right?

And Kristen is regularly.

By almost, every time I leave the bathroom brushing my teeth.

I have a new idea for a show.

1:29:00

Yeah, and I have to walk her through, or a new idea for a movie.

That part’s really fun.

I like it.

It is the technical aspect of writing and I Know It exists and music as well, which is great idea.

I love it, ideas are worth nothing.

It’s all about execution.

So now I gotta crack these third acts, and I got to really build this emotional town and all that.

1:29:18

That’s math.

Mmm.

I love writing dialogue.

If I got to sit down and just write fun dialogue.

I would love writing, but the architecture of it.

And increasing tension and all these things you have to do that part is math.

And that is frustrating and that must exist in songs as well.

Yeah, I think they would call that the the music theory and production that to be honest because I know it it happened so quickly.

1:29:42

I don’t even you just do a kind of instinctually.

Oh, yeah.

It’s my least favorite part as well.

Uh-huh, certainly harvesting the idea.

Yeah beginning of ideas intoxicate.

That’s fun.

I love finding artists who have stories.

Is to tell I love encouraging that out of them.

1:30:00

You don’t like, I don’t know if you have already but you need to tell the story of the Midwest.

Uh-huh.

Because you seem to have, you know, the smell of it and the taste of.

Yeah, I would go with that.

Yeah, so I’d love to see that happen.

Yeah.

1:30:15

All right.

I’ll do it.

I kind of did a Midwest story even though it s California, but the kitten runs a very Midwest movie.

I implore you to watch that.

At.

Okay, car chase love story.

Okay?

Made for a million dollars.

Real labor of love with my wife.

1:30:34

So are you open to playing a song today?

You would that would be a great, great honor for me.

Yeah.

So what you shrunk?

Three feet in front of me, that’s all you can do is try here.

All right.

So what are you going to play for us man?

1:30:51

I’m gonna play being a girl.

Oh and then and And things were jammed in dust.

Hmm, bum absolutely, going to murder all three because I just haven’t had time to practice.

1:31:07

All right.

Yeah, so so like a retiree.

It’s like rehearsal every once in a while.

1:31:22

You meet a chat at drives.

You wear what?

I must a couple downtown’s down.

I want to coat and sexy took some camels smokes.

Don’t prepare you for Laughs that explodes a princess and a mistress dressed in son.

1:31:43

Best to impress afresh, love and dress, to set the stage.

Receive a praise and leave a sour taste.

That only gets sweeter as if face.

She just can’t help being a girl.

1:32:02

She just can’t help being a girl.

She just can’t help herself full of spectacle and charm.

Like nothing else.

Being a girl.

Being a girl at the initial glance.

1:32:25

She’s making plans to build her a man like a T4.

Do an aeroplane the girl wants a modern romance fell in love with Damon her new Adventurer because every Rebel needs a woman’s touch, but the This she’s an actress using the bedroom for practice.

1:32:46

Making them think his kisses all she ever imagined with a Pocketful of Rocket Fuel Dragon strings that pull on the hot.

That’s uncertain, but beautiful.

She just can’t help being a girl.

1:33:05

She just can’t help being a girl.

She just can’t help her.

Herself full of spectacle and charm like nothing else.

Being a girl.

All know, the girl can’t help himself.

1:33:24

She is more than wonderful wonderful room.

Oh, no, the girl can’t help herself.

She is more than wonderful being a girl.

I make the goddamn.

1:33:40

I am on the verge of crying.

Really beautiful.

Oh my God, and I just want to take a moment to express extreme gratitude that how lucky my life is that?

I for like I said, years drove around this hearing that song in my car, and then I’m staring at you in real life hearing use.

1:33:59

I’m so grateful right now.

Thank you.

I appreciate ya.

Also good.

Does your lady make you sing for her?

No, she doesn’t me singing and what I do is just doesn’t really come up that often.

1:34:15

Uh-huh, you know, but yeah often catch her pulling up to the house and she’s playing my stuff in the car.

Oh, I like that.

And that’s got to make you feel good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I try to urge my wife to sing and Shiro very rarely do it for me as well.

Yeah, and then on occasion she performs publicly and when I go see here, I have the same thing.

1:34:35

I just had just now, it’s like I’m on the verge.

Crying the whole time because I’m just so proud of her that she can do that thing.

And it’s something that I could, if I dedicate the rest of my life, to a disk cloning do, it’s so impressive if you found that, it’s been challenging for you to do your music live because it’s very kind of complicated on the album and it’s often the instrumentation is such that it’s probably you’re not going to do that live, right or even sitting here, like your music is so much going on in it from the instruments standpoint, to break it down to an acoustic that holds up.

1:35:07

So Wells, really impressive.

But is that is that challenging?

Well, definitely for me because I tend to pay attention to everything that’s going on.

I don’t know.

If you do this, when you’re making your movies particularly as the writer and the director and the producer, I’m paying attention to everything on stage.

1:35:24

Right?

So often forget lyrics, uh-huh, like every night.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I’m forgetting lyrics and I hate slow songs.

Okay, I often will fall asleep.

I’m staying.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Dislike.

I can’t imagine that’s what the folks want to see.

1:35:39

I know.

Well, I’m doing slows.

I have is just something Saturday night.

Van hunt takes a nap.

Take front of you live.

At The Kills Me will sell you the whole seat, but you’ll only need the edge.

He will sleep for nine minutes before realizing he’s gone out.

So those kind of like the Trump briefings.

1:35:58

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, they’re not saying van Han over and over again.

You’re out cold.

We have to do these breaks in the song.

That’s probably what you hear when I’m performing them.

Haha is I will literally just break off into a another song.

Uh-huh.

I’ll also seen differently in the guys playing with you.

Just have to keep up.

1:36:14

Absolutely, right?

Yeah, weirdly, I find that what you all those things.

You just mentioned the distraction of that in my head while I’m acting in something that I’m also directing and that I’ve written is helpful because I’m actually the I’m so much more worried about this whole day the whole scene that I’m not concentrating on my acting which weirdly liberates me to sometimes be better.

1:36:34

Oh guys, I’m not self-conscious about I’m not even thinking about It’s Just Happening, that’s good, completely unrelated, but do you like to live quali?

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Okay.

Who wouldn’t?

He’s my other great Obsession, dude, how kind of obsessed with him?

He’s so committed.

Oh, yeah.

1:36:50

Yeah, do you have you had him here?

Not yet, but I will the next time he’s in town, for sure.

Because of you.

I’m friendly with him and I go see him whenever he’s here.

And I just think lyrically.

He’s so mind-blowing and he’s one of the coolest people in in, once you start like, you wouldn’t even need to.

1:37:07

To ask questions like no.

No, I could leave the room.

It would take care of it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I absolutely loved him and then I watch him on Twitter and his so much of his day is dedicated to fighting strangers, and I can relate because I have the same hang up.

1:37:22

I will fight with people.

I’ve never met in my life, as I say, they could be the crazy person at 7-Eleven, with a parrot on their shoulder.

But I’m gonna take time now to argue with this person, that I don’t even know if they’re sane, and he has that x 11.

But anyways, so he’s so special.

Yeah.

Alright though.

1:37:38

This is the last song is dust.

Yeah, it’s this was definitely my introduction to Van hunt.

Oh, cool more song.

I heard it’s just another day.

1:38:04

Another episode.

I’m hiding under the world.

It’s just another way of merciful.

Hope.

I don’t expect many more.

I’m already insane.

1:38:25

I’m already in pain, and if this town you don’t Rescue Me.

I don’t blame you at all.

Blame you at all.

1:38:42

I know that I’ve gone In Too Deep for you to risk the fall.

I’m already insane.

Yes.

I am.

I’m already in pain.

1:39:03

I’m already.

But sing.

Just blown away over the edge.

I am just blown away over the edge.

1:39:27

That’s blown up way over the edge which Dust blown away over the edge.

Never thought that I would be the one with the winning hand.

1:39:53

So it’s no blow to my sophistication.

That I’ve gone crazy again.

I’m all right.

I’m saying I’m already in pain.

1:40:12

Oh, yes.

Oh, yes.

Oh, yes.

I’m already.

I’m saying.

Yeah.

Blow on the way, over the edge, just blown away over the edge.

1:40:42

Blown Away.

That’s it.

Oh my God, another hard one on the guitar.

1:41:05

Yeah, I actually had worked out a completely different ending last night, but I be scrapped it.

Midway get to make it a game date call.

It was midway to it.

Was that?

Yeah.

You go, you know.

Yeah, that was so fantastic van.

Haunt.

People should go to your website.

1:41:22

Yeah.

Manhunt.com van hunt.com V anhu NTD.

Cam also You released a new album in October of 17, which was but three short months ago, which is called the fun Rises, the fun sets.

1:41:42

Well, no, interesting story.

Yes.

It is interesting.

I did not do that.

That is no, that is the name of the album and it was a kind of recycling of the release because it came out in May of 2015.

1:41:58

Oh, okay, but I’ll tell you why, because in August of this year blue, note released a ten-year-old record.

Oh, they did.

Could I was going to ask you about that and I forgot to but you when you left Capital, you went to Blue Note.

Yeah, and you recorded a whole album and they decided not to release it and then they would not give it back to you either.

1:42:15

Right?

Is that the most heartbreaking thing that can happen to you.

It is you know, but again, you know, we’re tough guys will move on I’ll bullshit and that’s five row and directed a movie and I You that I couldn’t even share it with people fuck whether or not it’s going to be huge or not.

1:42:32

But it did, it wouldn’t even get a chance.

That would be heartbreaking.

To be honest.

I didn’t recognize the impact of it until later.

When actually, there were some fans of mine who were like, you know, if people had not had been able to witness that part of your Canon, then what you did later on would have made more sense.

1:42:52

He bright.

It was his them.

It was part of the evolution.

Yeah, and I had actually ever thought about that and I thought I was a good point and then I kind of felt pissed off.

But yeah, but now it is available.

Now it’s available.

What how did that happen?

Well, I went back to Blue Note, have a gun, a few of their artists were like, you know, you made an album that for me was a transition between what I do as a jazz artist and what I thought everybody else was doing as.

1:43:21

RnB Hip Hop Pop ha ha.

That was a big transition record for me.

Yeah, and I was like, wow, so I went back.

And I told them that and I said, wouldn’t it be nice for you guys to put out this record?

You sat on and shelved on an artist that still a living?

Yes.

1:43:36

Yes, and they were like well, and also in their defense, probably the business models have changed exact and it used to be that they were going to have to sell those CDs to a Tower Records.

And I’m going to put money behind it and print posters.

1:43:52

Right now.

You can just release on the internet.

Exactly.

It’s virtually free dip for them to do that.

Exactly.

Okay, great.

So, what’s the name of that album?

That’s popular.

That’s popular.

Yeah, and how do we get that iTunes?

Yeah, exactly.

Okay.

Modify whatever Spotify.

1:44:07

Okay, you’re offering the free route.

That’s nice of you but they’re really telling you go to iTunes and buy it.

I’ll cheat motherfuckers, but we can spend $10 at Starbucks.

We get Spotify checks.

We split all you do.

The record companies.

Yeah, are they a substantial?

No, they’re not.

1:44:23

Okay.

Okay, they’re better than free though, right?

How did they compared to what?

Play royalties used radio play, royalties are still the largest.

They are of the royalties.

Yeah.

Okay, for music.

Okay.

Yeah, and just last question I have for you other than sales, right, but those two have diminished yet.

1:44:43

Totally.

My last question for you is, are you still working with other people?

Do you do at all aspire to write with other people, or create for other people, or just collaborate?

Or you just just you, my Favorite thing to do is to do things.

1:45:00

Like I was just trying to get you to do is like nerds you to make this movie.

Well that I know would be.

So personal different look difficult to make but so much fun for everybody to watch.

Uh-huh.

Because you’re funny guy naturally, funny guy, but to see you make something that was so close to you.

1:45:16

Yeah, and you know, those are that’s where the explosions explosions happen.

Yeah, you know, and so that’s my favorite thing to do with other artists.

Uh-huh.

And I do that.

I just bounced around the country whenever I’m wherever I’m needed and try and you’ve assembled, a group of friends that are largely creative.

1:45:37

Know.

I still a lone wolf.

Yeah, hello wolf.

And I just get a call every now and then just usually in the middle of the night.

So on.

So needs kind of an artist Whisperer.

Yeah, and so I show up and we hang out and if I need to produce something, that’s what I do.

1:45:54

Okay, if I need to write something, I’ll do it.

If I need to play, I’ll do.

Do it.

If I if I just literally need to hang out, be this person’s friend realtor car salesman.

You are sure that’s generous but that’s just is where the exact really good art.

Where do you keep your Grammy?

It’s my closet.

1:46:10

It’s in your closet.

Okay, do you ever pull it out when things are rough with your lady?

Just feel like I’ve been.

I’ve been officially deemed a genius.

I know we don’t agree on that restaurant.

But look at this statue.

1:46:26

Don’t you think?

I must have a point of view know to your point.

So she pulls it out.

Okay.

Yeah, that’s nice.

Yeah, I like that.

Yeah, I think she does.

I’m happy that you have a gal.

That listens to your music.

Yeah, that’s nice.

I never catch my wife watching a movie.

1:46:41

I made it’s never happened.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, she’s doing a great job.

Well then, thank you so much for coming and talking with me.

It’s such a such a pleasure and a treat.

And thank you, man.

I’m super grateful that this could happen.

1:46:58

Yeah, so I really appreciate Manhunt.com by shit support our man, but peace, stay tuned.

If you’d like to hear my good friend and producer, Monica Patman point out the many errors in the podcasting just heard.

1:47:19

Hello, we will now dissect van hunt, Nuys conversation, and Monica will point out all the many ways.

I was inaccurate or irresponsible in my speech.

Monica.

Hi, how’d it go?

Good, there’s a medium amount of fact, medium amount.

1:47:39

Uh-huh, but they were all really interesting.

This was my this today was my most fun fact.

Check.

What was for me?

Personally.

Do you feel like you’ve returned to college by doing these?

Yes.

I definitely feel like I’m doing homework, but in a good way.

Yeah you and I both liked College a lot.

1:47:55

Yeah, I like school across the board elementary junior high.

Yeah.

I like I love school.

Yeah college that you really you thrived in college, you are a social butterfly you to use large group of friends.

Sure.

You’re still friends with them.

Yep, and you just recently, watch them get very close to winning the college national championship in football.

1:48:17

Of course, we’re talking about the, Georgia.

Horse poo poos, but I think how dare you the Georgia Bulldogs.

Oh, that’s great.

That’s a good name.

There’s a lot of bad names in college sports and I am talking about the racist ones or anything.

I’m just talking about like, you know, the pigeons, then a the quitters Lassie quitters, the Sooners.

1:48:42

One of them is the fucking Sooners.

That’s who they were playing in the Rose Bowl, right, Georgia was playing the Sooners.

Alma Sooners, so we had to look that up.

We’re like, what a stupid name.

This is for a, for a team and it relates to when homesteading was happening.

Apparently, you had to line up at a certain time and then they shot a gun and then you go out and stake your claim.

1:49:02

And there were people who would go out before the gun was shot.

And those were the Sooners because it’s also, it’s also, it’s not easy to bad name.

It’s also kind of about cheaters.

Yeah.

Yes.

What was your college mascot?

Oh, that’s a great question.

1:49:18

I went to UCLA.

We were the Bruins ruins.

Yeah, that’s a bear.

That’s a bear.

I don’t know what it is.

Yeah, there were a bunch of things that didn’t make sense to me until way after I graduated, one of them was like, you had to go on to Ursula something to sign up for your classes.

That was like their network was Ursula.

1:49:33

Something like this is where they trying to sound futuristic or something.

Or so, my, the way this was early into the internet.

So I thought they’re pushing too hard.

Sure Ursula’s like the scientific name for bear.

It’s like the family names, Ursula, mate, you know, whatever.

Yeah, mate, mate.

1:49:50

Well, major, I think I think there’s the one minor or something.

Black bears are still a minor and brown bears.

Ursula major.

What about high school?

What is what was your mascot in high school?

We were the Walled Lake Central Vikings.

1:50:05

Maybe the Vikings not really my junior high.

My first Junior, High Highland, Junior High was the Scots.

Oh, yeah, like the Scottish people.

That’s right.

And the Vikings obviously is about Scandinavians.

And so it is interesting to me.

1:50:23

Let’s just do let’s have this conversation.

Okay.

Yeah.

This is always right for you.

And I’d argue it is totally fine to have a team referencing, a European country are European population of people but it wouldn’t be cool right to do the Milwaukee pakistanis that we don’t have the hill races and why would it feel races because those are minority group.

1:50:47

As opposed to the Scottish a very massive majority white.

Yeah, but if we just start with the notion that the team name is supposed to elicit fear and its Rivals because they are powerful and mighty, right.

1:51:04

So why not just include all the mighty powerful historic, military operations from the past from all over the world.

Let’s have the Persian Empire was gigantic.

They took over a big chunk of the world.

Let’s have the Toledo Persians.

Know why not?

1:51:20

Because it would, first of all, it’s can.

First of all, the mud hands, take away the racism element.

It would just be confusing.

Okay, because we refer to minority groups as their ethnicity in this country.

1:51:36

We do if you said the you know, whatever you call them.

Say it try one out Persians.

Yeah hardly get it out of my own mouth.

You know what?

See I think this is a weird.

Attempt Against Racism that weirdly now is racist.

Like you’re now saying that the word Persian you don’t want to say it is, if it’s a pejorative, it’s not when you’re me as an object.

1:51:58

I don’t want to objectify a group of people and make them a symbol of a team of white guys running around on a field, but it’s clearly a celebration, but there’s something.

But if you said the Persians were coming to town, then everyone, they don’t, they never thought a bunch of Scottish people were coming in when we were the sky.

1:52:19

Okay.

Well, I don’t want the Vikings were gonna more their ship.

Okay.

In this country.

We don’t differentiate the general white people by their ancestry.

You just called them white people.

Well recently.

Yes.

Okay.

We’re very recently in the 50s in New York.

1:52:37

You were still very segregated into Italian Irish.

Jewish.

All these distinctions were, I mean, I think it was even a huge deal that John F.

Kennedy.

Going to be president cause he was going to be the first Catholic President.

That was a big deal.

So just five minutes ago, the white people were very identified by their country of origin.

1:52:57

We’re talking about current mascots.

Yeah.

Scott’s now we do not differentiate white people by being Irish, or Scottish or at out.

Whatever they are.

We don’t do that.

Okay, we do do that for minority.

Grown folks.

1:53:13

Yeah, okay.

So, then there’s more confusion when you call at with you.

If you call it team, the Persians people think of Persians.

They think of actual Persians.

Now, when you call some the scotch or the Vikings, no one’s thinking about current Vikings and getting, what do you think?

1:53:33

Yes, I do think Vikings are largely non-existent, correct?

Okay, so, but Scott’s we could say, are still, nobody has been nobody’s thinking that.

So there are bad ones clearly there.

The there are the Ed skins, right?

And they that is a pejorative.

1:53:48

That’s not that’s not a celebration.

So are we saying that?

Because we have a bad track record of generally making a meal out of the stereotypes that are negative about different groups of people because we have that history that precludes us from at least doing the opposite thing, which is celebrating a culture or history the Aztecs what an Empire that that’s something that could be celebrated.

1:54:10

There was there’s all these ways to to shit on it and in film and television sports team.

Is what not?

But if we have an opportunity to celebrate it, I don’t see why.

That’s - I just don’t think it.

I don’t think it translates in the same way when it’s a minority group because minority groups already get stereotyped all the time.

1:54:29

They already get objectified and they’re they’re already facing an uphill battle.

So when you call them out as an object to represent to falsely represent, a group of people that it will.

Hold on, no falsely Tana.

1:54:44

Persian school if it was but but but none of these schools are my junior.

I was not Scottish.

The the Michigan state folks are not Spartans.

I know not Greek.

Still are.

It’s still a majority group.

It’s still white people.

1:55:01

The UCLA Bruins are not Bears.

These are just symbols that represent virility strength prowess and physical aptitude.

Yeah.

It’s a compliment unless you’re using one of Of these very bad words.

That is no clearly not.

1:55:17

People are races all the time.

Without using bad words.

Give me an example.

Like when you tell, when people say to black folks there, so well-spoken.

That’s a way to, yeah.

Yeah.

That’s very racist.

Yeah, that’s something racist.

Whatever any stereotype is often.

Just a thought, a negative thought about someone doesn’t mean you don’t know how you can think something negative about someone and not say, you know, a slur.

1:55:41

Yeah.

I think that we should embrace.

Folks, and I don’t because they’re, you know, not the hegemonic group in the country.

It should mean that celebrating them as - you’re right.

It shouldn’t mean that you’re looking at this logically.

1:55:57

You’re right.

Okay, but if you emotionally and realistically the way people are treated is not based on logic.

It’s based on emotion and it’s based on other - okay, but do you do I just want to be clear for our purposes here?

You know, I’m not proposing a cartoon drawing of a Asian I’m a I’m proposing.

1:56:16

You call it the Persians and there’s like a cool sword.

Yeah, or are the Hans and you show the the Stirrup in the horse?

Which was there mounted troops where the Breakthrough of the Huns that’s why they were so successful.

So that was their big technological breakthrough.

You celebrate the that part.

1:56:32

Yeah, but doesn’t it also feel like white people adopting this thing.

That isn’t theirs.

It’s like, there’s something that feels a little bit, like appropriation in a way as well.

So I think, what you and I are really, really debating.

And it is that you don’t believe there could be a celebration of that culture.

1:56:49

You just don’t trust given our history.

You don’t really believe, it would be a celebration of the Persians.

I think that’s where the rubber meets the road on this one.

I think it’s a lack of trust, which is very fair.

Yeah, maybe.

I mean, I think that’s, that’s diluting it a lot.

But, yeah, I don’t know.

1:57:05

I just, but you are saying if a white person were to pick the Huns, that’s a no-go.

Yeah.

Okay.

I appreciate your perspective.

And I love you.

I love you.

And it’s very okay that we differ on this.

1:57:21

Yeah, I don’t even think in a court of law.

I think this would be a mistrial.

I don’t think they would find in your favor or mine.

The people will tell us, I’m sure.

Yeah.

All right, I will get into the fact checking.

Okay?

And talking about where Van came from.

You referenced a Malcolm Gladwell book that discussed culture of Pride.

1:57:39

Mmm, also known as culture of Honor.

I think more commonly this culture of Honor.

And that book is from outliers.

And it’s also referenced I know from hillbilly elegy, they talk about that book that.

1:57:55

Yes, the Malcolm Gladwell books.

I can’t recommend them enough.

They are like reading great magazine articles, one chapter, after another and you don’t even have to agree or personally.

I don’t know that I agree with his is overarching conclusion, but getting the case material is so fascinating.

1:58:11

Getting the dad, are the studies or the history of these.

Only feuds and stuff.

It’s so fascinating, whether or not you agree with his ultimate conclusion or so fun.

Okay, and then van had mentioned Ray, Charles, saxophone guy.

Okay, and he said he thought his name was King Louis, but based on the information.

1:58:30

I found it was David Fathead Newman.

Hmm.

I’ll so those are both great names.

Can you know your fat head?

Anyone about a sports team named the fathead Newman’s sure?

Okay, you mentioned a van that He plays a lot of instruments like Prince does and you called that multi musician.

1:58:50

All right, it’s not.

Okay.

It’s called multi-instrumentalist.

That makes that’s more a lot more specific, and poorly specific.

Okay, and then you said that, Detroit was the blackest city in the country when you lived there and I said, 92 percent black.

1:59:06

Yes, a 90% black.

And it is seventy nine point two percent today.

Today.

Yeah, some stats say, 83% That’s a big shouldn’t it shouldn’t because there’s a there’s a sense of so, I don’t know why but anyway, and it is still currently the city with the highest population of African Americans in the US per capita.

1:59:27

Followed by.

Yes.

Yeah.

I’d like to go through these sir.

There’s a to Jacksonville.

No.

Damn it, Houston, Atlanta.

Wow.

All right.

You were kind of close with Jacksonville only in sound Jackson, Mississippi.

1:59:44

Oh, okay, then Miami Gardens, Florida.

Hmm.

Not a place made up.

Nice.

Try.

Okay, this was it.

This was really interesting.

This next little fact that.

Yeah.

Yeah, because you had said in your estimation, when you were younger.

2:00:01

You would go to Atlanta.

It seemed like, it was a much better place for black people to live in Detroit.

Yeah.

From Atlanta, so I kind of felt like maybe you were wrong and you were just you know, sort of blinded by your specific circumstance and show you around but you are right.

2:00:24

Oh good.

The median household income for African-Americans in Atlanta is 41 thousand three hundred dollars in the median.

Household.

Income in Detroit, is 25,000 1880, daggering Gap.

Yes, very very, very large.

2:00:39

Large gap and Forbes evaluated.

This was a 2018 article for was evaluated, America’s 53, largest metropolitan statistical areas.

Based on three factors that we believe are indicators of middle class in this country.

2:00:55

So the home ownership rate entrepreneurship and median household income and Atlanta and Washington, were tied for first place.

Wow, for best.

Wow.

Yeah.

It sounds like a really had it, right.

You did.

Yeah.

2:01:10

Yeah, you did.

I thought it was.

Yeah, so I had been to Atlanta a lot.

You had not been to Detroit a lot as a kid.

You would have been pretty shocked with how Bleak the the life for your average black person wasn’t.

Yeah, you try.

It was pretty.

2:01:27

I guess it was pretty depressing.

Yeah, and when I would go down to Atlanta, I’d see like black families at restaurants that were like total, middle-class chilies types restaurants with the whole family.

There.

You just would not see that in Detroit.

Very often.

Yeah, and they had they’ll nice new cars.

2:01:44

They had nice new clothes that you know is very visible in Detroit that income inequality.

You know.

Now it’s on a big, big rebound, but I lived downtown Detroit in a condemned building and it was 3,000 square feet knows four hundred dollars a month.

2:02:01

That same building now is getting like thirty eight hundred dollars a month for rent.

It was as close to a Post-apocalyptic city as you could really find, I think, although I haven’t spent a lot of time in Pittsburgh, but I think Pittsburgh went through a similar really, really rough downturn in the yeah industry.

2:02:21

Yeah.

Yeah, and then you also mentioned that you assume Dayton would be sort of a middle ground in between Detroit and Atlanta and Dayton’s median, income for African-Americans is 27,000 or 683, know a little bit better, but by like Very little.

2:02:40

Oh, I have to imagine the well, I don’t really know if that’s true.

I was gonna say maybe the cost of living is cheaper and date and so relative.

It would be higher but but I guess not.

Okay.

So you brought up Bushwick Bill and you mentioned his girlfriend shot him.

Yeah.

Okay.

So there’s some conflicting information on this because most articles say his girlfriend shot him like you did.

2:03:01

Yeah.

During an argument and I couldn’t find where that even though.

That was what you told me to find but I couldn’t find it.

But then Bushwick Bill went on the show party Legends on Vice land.

Okay, and he said, boy, did it was his mom.

2:03:19

Oh, I shot him, huh.

He wanted to commit suicide, but knew that if you committed suicides, King my life insurance.

He wanted his mom to get the life insurance.

So he got really high and then he concocted this plan where he would were he like would give his mom the gun and then provoker.

2:03:37

And so they, he did sounds like such.

Bonding experience between mother and child.

I know, it’s what we all dream about mean.

I can’t even grasp Andy my mother, a revolver, but he, I guess put his face in front of the gun and then she kind of turned and closed her eyes.

2:03:53

And then, she shot his eyes out orifice.

She shot as I am, didn’t kill him.

Okay, but literally every other article I found said that it was his girlfriend.

Yeah.

In can I float a theory?

Sure?

I want to float a theory that you You know, he during the time of that that interview he was trying to patch things up with the ex and he thought he should stop telling everyone she’s show.

2:04:17

This is recently.

Yeah, maybe he’s trying to put things back together.

It’s a really long time ago.

So maybe but in the face, right?

He did get shot in the face.

Yeah.

His eye, his eye.

He doesn’t not have an eye.

Okay.

So you guys started talking about Freaknik.

2:04:33

Mmm, and then a festival came up.

Recent Festival came up.

So with the, the from intense, uh-huh.

Yeah, so I got a little more information on that.

I couldn’t really remember, it was called the fry festival and and yeah, not put together by Glenn Frey of the Eagles.

2:04:56

I’m so sorry.

It’s called the fire Festival.

Jesus, but it’s but look, it’s spelled f y re.

Of course it is.

Well, yeah, I know, but it’s easy for me to read the sure.

Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, fire fire Fest what the Y with Y.

2:05:13

And so it was, it was started by Billy McFarland.

Who’s a 25 year old Manhattan, entrepreneur.

And this was sort of sold to these Elite Millennials and influencers and stuff.

There were some musicians attached.

2:05:29

Yeah, right Ja Rule.

I love and it was sort of it was sold as an ultra luxurious quote, Coachella in the Bahamas.

Okay.

Yeah, you got me.

Yeah on the hook and then tickets cost up to twelve thousand dollars a pound.

2:05:45

Oh my God.

Yep.

Okay.

So there’s FEMA 10.

It was an article in Vanity Fair about this.

I just want to read a little okay.

Yeah excerpt from that.

This is a girl who went.

So McFarland suggested that everyone who had booked one of the private Villas follow him, but there were no private Villas.

2:06:04

There were no buildings to stay in Period.

Instead.

There was a cluster of carpeted tents.

Suddenly Kumar girl who attended the festival says there was this Mass Rush of people running to the tents.

It was just chaos.

What should we do?

We ended up grabbing to tense.

2:06:21

The beds were damp, but the carpet was completely soaked.

It was like Survivor or The Amazing Race gone, really bad people were Yelling bedding.

People were getting more and more drunk.

We couldn’t, we couldn’t leave our things.

So we just stayed in the tent.

It was just epic chaos.

2:06:37

Hmm.

Their plan was to get everyone really drunk and don’t forget how shitty.

This really is.

Ah, right?

Normally a bulletproof business model.

Yeah, but when you get everyone hammered, let the chips fall where they may five thousand dollars a piece.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, it’s hard.

2:06:55

There are certain events where it’s kind of hard to figure.

Feel bad for the victim.

And in this case, I’m I’m just a little less sympathetic.

Someone who believes that the 25 year old entrepreneur and Ja Rule have have put together a great Island Retreat for 12,000.

2:07:13

Do you have to be a tiny bit?

Skeptical.

Don’t you fomo I guess we’ve put an actual price on phone.

Well, they’re like this thing could go south.

But then again we could be missing the greatest party of all time.

Yeah.

I mean, I think people people’s egos got We boosted because it is exclusive.

2:07:31

Yeah, really?

Uh-huh.

He’s fancy words.

The people get off on.

Okay.

You said the first movie you did Without a Paddle costs, 19 million and made 60, but it made 7000 did.

Oh, that’s worldwide.

2:07:47

You’re doing it.

You’re being very kind by doing worldwide numbers, which I like, but you aren’t.

You aren’t specifically saying domestic.

When you’re right.

I’m not, you’re right van mentioned.

This Monk and then that made you, you brought up Charles Mingus and he said he liked his book.

2:08:03

I just want to say his book is called beneath the underdog.

And then you mentioned a documentary about him.

Yeah, that’s called Mingus.

Charles Mingus 1968, who got a want to watch that again.

Yeah, and that.

Yeah, talks about basically I’m getting evicted and stuff.

2:08:19

Yeah.

Yeah, he seems a little unstable by my definition of stability.

I don’t know if he’s just an extreme artists.

And he’s just not super anchored into reality, but he definitely has a very peculiar personality in that documentary.

It sounds sad because he has like his five-year-old, right?

2:08:37

Yeah.

It is sad but then he grabs a base and you go fuck.

This guy’s got a superpower.

I don’t feel that bad now.

Yeah.

Worse because then he cuz he shouldn’t be in that.

Well, yes he shit.

There’s yes.

So one way to look at it as is, that’s worse.

2:08:52

But then Another Part Of Me Goes fuck I would rather have that skill and that genius the Any apartment, our car, or clothes or anything?

Abby?

Yeah, if you would rather have that slow.

Now, I have two little kids.

He had a kid.

Like if I could sing like Adele, but I had to move to a 1-bedroom apartment.

2:09:10

I think I would take that trade if I could sing like Adele.

Yeah, but I could not keep an apartment.

I was getting evicted and we’ll just for the record.

He had a huge space.

He he just probably needed a downgrade.

He gigantic Warehouse full of shit.

2:09:28

It’s not like, he went to a shelter or porta potty.

Would you say yes to go to a two bedroom.

Well, if I couldn’t pay the rent and I had a five-year-old.

I wouldn’t you could probably land a Suitor with some do if you could sing like Adele.

Yeah, I definitely could if only okay.

2:09:47

So you guys were talking about Prince albums and house.

First album didn’t have any hits and his debut album is called for you and it was released in 1978.

And Prince was 20, oof.

Yeah, Special.

Hmm.

And that’s all.

That’s all that is.

2:10:02

All I was fun.

Yeah, especially the part about fire, especially the part about mascots.

Well, thank you so much, Monica, and good night to you.