Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Chris Hardwick


Hello everybody.

I’m Dax Shepard in.

This is armchair expert.

I’m so delighted to have you join us today because we’re talking with someone who was pretty instrumental in me, having a desire to have a podcast.

I think I did his show the first time five or six years ago, and I’ve done it two or three times, you know, him as the Nerdist, Chris Hardwick joins us today.


He has a new bod cast or maybe it’s the same as his old podcast, but it’s now called idiot.

It but I believe idiot is spelled i d 10 T.

So, I don’t know if it’s idiot or i d 10 T.

This is clearly a test that I’m failing but despite all that.


He was a lovely guest.

He also guys backstory.

He was one of our, our, our first interviews and he stayed afterwards and talked with Monica.

And I at Great length and gave us a ton of tips that we then employed, and I think it made the podcast a lot better.


So if you find that I’m a little bit interrupting or something.

Just remember.

I hadn’t gotten these tips yet, but I love you.

He’s an option, Chris Hardwick Dax Shepard.


Welcome to my podcast.

Thank you for bringing me into your podcast Loft.

Full disclosure.

We’re doing some some remodeling of main house from which we do the podcast and all the power was cut to the main house and they could work on it.

And I was assured, there would be.

Run to the Guesthouse.


Where we do this podcast.

I’ve never done a house before though.

If you ever we’ve already made it.

A house is not an out of this scale inside.

We’ll just so you know, most of the things that you were told are not true.


Or you’ll show up one day and it’s like, why did they tile that wall?

It’s not like talking to a director of a movie.


They want you to do for the first time so they’re like, oh absolutely.

Yeah, you couldn’t.

You can have a mohawk in this movie.

Whatever you want.

Yeah, you know, they just want you on board.


Likewise, ye when you’re talking to an architect or a contractor.

They’re like, oh, you’ll be in by Christmas 17.

No problem.

That’s not not the case at all.



So suffice to say, when you arrived.

I was in quite a state of disarray.

I had gone.

And gotten my generator out of my garage at home and I’m running.

Now, extension cords up to here and I’m deeply embarrassed and humiliated that you had to see me not at all state.

We have one light which cause it’s, you know, winter hours.


It’s gonna be dark when we recording this like yes.

Yes, it’s board. 4:28 p.m.

So like within minutes, It’ll be pitch.

I won’t be able to see you and I’m hoping that that adds to your It’s ensuring very hoping, you’d wait a minute.

Could I just bitching idea to you?

Yeah, you should do all future podcast where it’s pitch-black to see if people like reveal.


Anything more intimate about them.

Yeah, they’re just in the dark high degree of anonymity in the dark with Dax Shepard dark cast, dark KES.

I bet there’s already a dark cast.

There are talking about.

Yes, the talks about Renaissance weapons.



We’re on the same page.

We’re on the same.

We were in the same bit neighborhood.



Yeah, they would eat turkey legs for sure.

It turkey legs drink Mead.

You know, how to throw an ax at a stump.

So, the first thing I want to talk to you about is you have a very, very successful podcast and I have been a guest on it, a few times.

Yeah, and I love it.


I would imagine one of the liabilities of doing a podcast, is that a lot of the people you interview than have podcasts.

And it is that, is that the main liability?

This must be so.

So we’re like, well, I did yours.

Exhibiting mine, which is bullshit because you don’t, you don’t go on, like Letterman and then go, Dave, you owe me.


It’s like no.

I’m let him.

You got the deals complete you needed to promote something.

I don’t owe you anything.

Your podcast.

Is that big that you don’t owe anyone.


Yeah, you’re incredibly generous because you know, my friend Michael Rosenbaum.

Yeah, that was super fun.

But I have to say well first of all, I like you a lot and you’re super funny and I also I’d like being on a podcast because like I said, when I got here, I just recorded 14 mine and I said, it’s so great to not be in the driver’s seat.


I love sort of just going wherever you want to take it because then I yeah, you’ll the different takes so much pressure and it is it’s It’s quite a journey from having had tons of practice being interviewed, then being the interviewee interviewer where?

Yeah, you’re just, you’re not free to just kind of go wherever the hell you want you and some has to have some kind of beginning middle and end that’s on you.


Yeah, but that’s an adjustment, you know what the podcast now that we’re at eight years, but the thing that I learned the most from the podcast but you probably already learned from improv training is how to listen to people.

That’s the most important.

And I learned from the pie.

It was like when my wife and I went on our first couple of dates.


I was a better dater.

Yeah, because the podcast taught me how to listen.


That’s only thing I truly do have going for me is I am really interested folks shoot the shit and talk to people but it’s it really is a nice way to sit down with people that you’re interested in.

And just get to know him and find out what they’re like is people who are so conditioned to because we’re so busy in our daily lives that when you see people were so conditioned to just get out the minimum.


Um amount of acceptable intercourse that gets you.

The sort of how you doing.

Everything good.

You’re good.

I’m good.

Okay, you’re fine.

We’re still in good standing.

We’re still investigating.

It’s a little Jewel check-ins.


I also know people that I only know socially like I don’t know them because like I’m friends with a rock star, but I’m only friends with him because his kids go to school are best friends kids, so he’s around a lot.


But you know, I don’t know anything about him.

Other than like, we went trick-or-treating five times together.

Yeah, but it’s so if you if you were to sit down and talk you got to have that person.

I did I Did you know whether Pete Wentz own?

I see how he’s really nice.

Oh God.

He’s like so nice.

I told him I have to remind myself hourly, when I’m around him that he’s a rockstar, because you would forget, he’s just so humble.


Yeah, you’re just like, you almost were you kind of get angry and like, hey, could you fucking toot?

It up a little bit, kick something over at this Monument birthday.

Have, you know, have a tantrum of some kind.

Please also want to fuck off go into a coke-fueled rant and then mock my wife.


What do you, what do you think?

He’s come on?

You’re not losing this properly.

Well, I I read that you and this is another fun thing about doing is you invariably read shit.

That’s incorrect as happens to me, when I go on things.

They you know, like I was on my Stern, those things on the Internet or not.



Well, I was on Stern and they, I assume went to this website who dated who write?

So he wants to get into our like, my past girlfriends.

Well, half of them are completely wrong, are people.

I’ve never even met sure and it sounds like I’m just trying to avoid the question, but genuinely, I’ve never dated those people but that’s the research they did, right?


And it just seems like I’m deflecting.

I just really didn’t like no.

No, I did not date.

Sarah Ferguson.

Well, you know the weird ones that I’ve been rumored to have dated Tara Lipinski.

Is that a figure skater Gator?

Yeah, and here’s why I was walking across a crosswalk on Hollywood Boulevard one time 13 years ago and she too was in the crosswalk and there was a Paparazzi there and they took a photo of us next to each other walking through across.


That’s it.

Isn’t that the pay of a mental note?

Stating know like sometimes you walk through a crosswalk with people other time?

Times you take longer while that’s true.

Sometimes you get in the car and you actually drive somewhere together.

Okay, so when you see that, do you think did I date her like just make you wonder for a second?


No that no Monica, that could happen with like have you hooked up with this person?

But yeah, have I dated Tara Lipinski know?

I would definitely that you would know if you dated Tara Lipinski or not.

Yes, any period of time, probably a more accurate question is, did you even realize you were in a crosswalk with Tara Lipinski, which I did not.


And then another one is Ione Skye.

I happen to be seated next to her at some charity.

Poker event dozen years ago.

And again, that’s we’ve dated you have any of those?



I mean I’ve had little bits of dating here and there but I’ve been such a serial monogamist.


Yeah, I wrote that a piece of paper, a totally true.

It’s like three-year relationship.

Seven-year relationship, three-year relationship, marriage.

Literally the term serial monogamist.


I just, I like being in a relationship.

I have dated.

Before but I feel weird about dating.


Yeah, very very uncomfortable.

Feels strange to go out with one person one night and then go out with someone else a different night.

It just feels weird.

Yeah, and I have done it.

I’m not saying I haven’t done it when I was younger.

I only did it once in my life to not.

I was with a girl for 9 years we an open relationship.

So I did have sex with people.


That’s not I’m not denying that but I never went on a date and I basically did never had gone on a date, my whole life until she and I broke up.

So there was like a year window between her and Kristen where I did date people.

And I felt like a serial killer going out with one gal, one night, and having a great time and then you go out with another girl like four days later.


Have an orderly someone if someone will now.

I mean, I didn’t really date much when there was texting because it’s right.

Right, right.

But or Tinder but if someone texts you while you’re on a date with someone like something that just feels weird, I mean, if it’s part of the agreement and everyone understands this is not you know, like yeah, this is allowed.


It still feels kind of strange, but even when that’s communicated and It’s the understanding.

It’s still bullshit.

It doesn’t feel right.

And I just like getting to the stage where you’re in your jammies with someone and you’re watching, you know, the movie Parenthood for the sure hundred and fiftieth time.


Yeah, I did.

I didn’t just I was an accident but I do watch that movie once a year.

There’s I do watch that movie once a year ago the that move, you know, I’m in the show.

I do know.

You’re on a TV show.


I knew your in the TV show.

Oh, and that makes sense because oh one of the other facts I read about you is that you really like Steve Martin?


I I do like Steve.

Yeah, and so he is the star of Ferran.

He is the circuits and Mary Steenburgen was at the cycling, the Critics Choice Awards, the other night.

And I wanted to walk up to her and just say, hey, I watch Parenthood once a year and then I realized like what’s she going to say to that?

Like, I didn’t ever she actually would love it because because you know, my wife’s on a show with Ted.


Yep, and so we’ve hung out with them a bunch of times and probably the nicest coolest woman in the biz.

Did your wife have to do the thing.

We all did something for.

It was like an NBC promo.

Like earlier this week.

Yeah, and I had heard.

Oh and Christian shot.


Well, I’m sure she did because I think everyone because I was hearing stories about Ted Danson dancing.

I have a very hard time with his last name.

Do you?

You mean that it sounds like Ted Danson like Dia and cin.


There was a band called Ted Danson.

Or who is on?

Who’s the boss who?


Tony Danza?



Dancin, those those are updated Danzig.

I mean, can these guys get together already?


Len Danzig?



Oh, I my gosh, when I get my feathers ruffled that I have an interaction with somebody in the real world, that is very awkward.



I have to remind myself of how many times I was awkward with famous people.


One of them being Glenn Danzig.


Whoo, I got on an airplane with at one point and I was behind him and he had like, three buddies with him and Glenn Danzig of ever seen him in real life.



He shockingly short.


I mean, like a really take your breath away.


Because as a kid, I grew up that you know, he was a monster.

He was like scary as hell.

And he’s got like shit, doesn’t he wrestled an alligator in one video to room?

And I’m like, yeah, so I was picturing, you know, humongous fella and he’s very very short.



So I said to his buddy.

Well Glenn Danzig zahi short, huh?

He goes.

Yeah and your fucking tall.

Who gives a shit motherfucker.


Oh God.

This is the thing that Glenn’s really sensitive about and I just went straight at it.

I just Bullseye to.

Yeah usually and this is just a good rule of thumb for People in generally good guys.


Usually, the first thought you have about a celebrity, or their name, or their appearance, whatever, they’ve heard it.

They’re aware.


I’ve been punished for that those indiscretions.

I had.

I met Gary Cole at an audition, once a great actor, Gary Cole.

It was in a minute, a million things, but you’d know him from Office Space or Brady, Bunch or a million.


Oh, yeah.


Yeah, so I said, oh, hey, my friends and I were talking the other day about how you move.

Get you and Gary Coleman and I swear.

Gary Coleman, he goes Gary Coleman.

Yeah, and I mean he was cool about it, but I had to be reminded like I’m doing the thing I’m doing it now.


Yeah, it’s just human.

It’s just sort of it’s just human.

You don’t have any prior experience.

That has prepared you for this interaction, but I met Steve Martin last year a couple times and he was great.

He was I did movie that he was in baby mama.

Yep, and we had a lot of time hanging out on set and I found him to be to be a more serious of a guy than I would have thought.


And I’m not saying that in a negative way.

He’s a pretty smart serious individuals, a pretty straight arrow, and he’s also shy.

Like, if you yeah, if you read, born standing up, which is, if you were even kind of a Steve Martin fan, or a fan of Comedy, stand-up, whatever you have to read, or actually even better, listen to the audio version because he reads it.


Oh, so when he kind of reads, a lot of his old B, he’s kind of doing a lot of the B ago, that’s cool.

So yeah, but a lot of comedians are pretty.

Yeah, seriously.

Both, yeah, just because you’re like really when it’s go time.

You can be huge loud and bright and shiny doesn’t necessarily right in your that way.


Now you were born in Kentucky.

This is true.

Yeah that part from the internet is true.

Okay, and then and then you move to Memphis, Tennessee, there was a little bit of shuffling in between Kentucky and Tennessee But ultimately I ended up in Memphis, do eat it.

Blue Plate.

Is that my favorite one?


Is that the name of it?

I don’t beautiful barbecue places, smokes, beautiful smoked sausage in there right now.

Play remember?

The sign inside says, put some South in your mouth.

Oh, that’s that seems yeah.

Yeah fun.

I might have come down this year that may be but I think it’s coming down.


Pretty happy it Rhymes.

But yeah, so we let you know we kind of shift.

It went to Florida a little bit.

But ultimately I was raised in Memphis.

And so when people ask me where I’m from, I just say Memphis because it’s well, that’s a cool too complicated to explain because I say they go where you from when I go a lot of places to go Army brat and I got know, my dad was a professional bowler.


That’s what I say that then that’s like, 50 other questioned.

By the way, me bringing up.

Memphis is really only a vehicle to me, for me to say, your father was a professional bowling, which seems Fame bowler.

It is in the Hall of Fame, is one of the greatest Bowlers and that literally one of the greatest in the history of the sport.

You’re kidding.


And are you a good bowler?

Yes, you are.

Its genetic.

Well, I could bowl from the time I could walk and my mother’s father also had a couple bowling centers, which I’m pretty sure is how my parents met, but your mom’s dad owned the Nail?


Yeah, and then they met their the yes, this is the problem.


If you’re a dad, I’m daughters to be together right there.

But this was all everyone was happy.

But but but what I’m saying, it might be a little caught bit of a cautionary tale.

As if you start a business and you have daughters, you have to think about the fact, if you know, what kind of business are you starting?


Your daughters are going to interact with all these folks, right?

If she’s are good.

Drivers, are can interact with bowler.


So your daughter is likely going to end up with a bowler, which in fact happened, that’s Happened.

Yeah, what kind of livelihood can a professional bowler?

Pull down in the 80s?

Well, this was in the 60s he retired at about 34.


So he was like 17 to 34.

He was on the pro bowlers tour.


Why in 1717?

Yeah, and so is he getting a lot of ass on that tour?

Where there are a lot of?

There are a lot of female volar fans.

Well, yeah, I mean, yes because at the time bowling was actually a very premier sport, it was televised, right?


Like I’m a nobody.

It was a very cool thing to do and then The 70s, it started to slide a bit.

And so, what’s interesting about the financial gains of bowling, is that the money in Bowling has weirdly not gone up at all, from the time that my dad was on the two?

That doesn’t shock me.


So it’s actually even like the greatest Bowlers on tour right now if I understand correctly are clearing about like three hundred grand and you can make that in one fucking golf match.



By not even placing in the yeah, exactly.



Thing about this podcast.

Is that at the end?

Of all this Monica will go and check everything we’ve said, and then she’ll give the real data.

So we fact check at the end of our podcast.

It’s so, so thing.

So people, if they stay tuned, they’ll find out exactly what a professional bowler, currently made.

I think, I think the top bowlers make in the 250 to 300 range and that’s like those are the top top guys.


There’s just, those are the Michael Jordan’s of bulldoze are not all.

There’s not a lot of money in it unfortunate, but isn’t it?

It’s all about the endorsement game.

I would imagine.

But even so like a lot of the money I’m bowling before.

If you’re a, if you own a bowling center, which my dad did until he died was league bowling, you know.


Alright, we’re huge, right?

And then at a certain point it started shifting and it became like Cosmic Bowling and like leagues dropped off, but then people would come and go to a bowling center like a, like a bar, like a club and the lights would be flashy.

I hate all that shit because it just like, I need to focus, right?

But yes, you know like an old-fashioned.



I know log.

I need I don’t mind an automatic storm.


I don’t like, yeah, I didn’t gas lanterns.

I need I need bowling spats.

Yeah, wooden bowling ball.

You ever see racing with the Moon that great movie was, Sean Penn and Nicolas Cage.


Is that the bicycle movie?


No, they’re about to go to World War 2, and Sean Penn and gets his girlfriend pregnant, or rather.

Maybe Nicolas Cage gets his.

It doesn’t matter.

Think they work at a bowling alley and they work at one word.

They had to reset the pins.

Oh, yeah.

Those are, those are the old days Nostalgia for that.



Those are the old days, but it, but it, but I love bowling.

I love being in it.

Like, if I Walk into a bowling center.

The sounds and you call it a bowling center.

Not a bowling alley.

Why is it uncouth to say Paulie?

What’s interesting is that if like, what made is not interesting to anyone?


But me, you said bowling center more times in the last five minutes and I’ve heard my whole life, but now, you must also remember really?


Yeah, but it’s just like in any profession, how if you understand, what the vernacular is every word, the Nuance of every word means something slightly different while bowling alley is a very seedy place.


I got bowling alley as like it’s sort of like the difference between going to a pool.

Haul in a Billiard Club.

So it’s like, if you go to a bowling alley, it’s pretty.

That means pretty seedy.

If you go to a bowling center, that’s a family play.

So when my dad and my grandfather had bowling centers, it’s like these were safe places where you could take your family.


Yes, and that is, you know, bowling alley, which is where you would, you like me to get shots.

Well, that was there.


I was just telling this to somebody this weekend that, you know, I grew up in kind of rural, Michigan.

Yeah, the bowling alley in town, was this amazing opportunity to see adults acting I’m like fucking animals because there were arcade games there and they sold food.


Everyone was welcome.


Wasn’t like an agent but always in plain view.

There was a bar where people are getting shit-faced and fighting every couple hours, right?

Or slow dancing.

So, a lot of these songs these 80s sappy love songs when I hear them.

I immediately go back to watching like really hammered adults, slow dancing at 3, p.m.


Wait, sorry.

A quick question though that was deaf leopard.

Wait to see fact checks you in funny if I know that was twisted.

So that is 100% death.

I forgot how much I know.

What is a good score for a professional bowler.

Like someone who’s really good.


What is that?

I’ll take this money.

I’ll take this.

Every is it to 20?

If you’re bowling 220 or stud, right?

Not on the tour anymore.

Oh really?

So I wrote an article a nice to write for Wired.

I wrote an article in wired based on something.

My dad used to say, which is Bowlings, gotten too easy, because the technology is Made the all the scores higher.


And so I did a bunch of research talk to some companies and found out that he was actually accurate.

My father was like, on my dad had like the highest average on the tour in the 60s, for a couple of years at like to 12.

Okay, and in the 60s, that was really high.


Yeah, but you have to look at the material is where everyone’s fucking falling asleep.

Bowling, balls are made out of rubber.

The lanes were made out of wood.

The pins were made out of wood.

Now, if you go to a bowling center, then The labeling pallets.

The lane is actually not, would the lane is actually a it’s a composite composite material with wood grain laser printed on it.


Yeah, and the reason that that’s relevant is because wood deteriorates.

Yeah, and it has to be resurfaced and has to be group and then the bowling ball material.

Now has a cover stock.

They have glass particles in them.

It’s called a reactive resin and they do as part of those in them.

When the ball starts spinning.


It creates friction for lack of a better way.

The, the poor.

Is on the ball, open up a bit.

So the glass particles then grab the lane and then kind of Sling Shot into the pocket and explode the pins.

And so where the game used to be about accuracy and making spares.

Now, it’s just making strike strike strike.


So all the best Bowlers now average like 240. 250.

Oh really, but it but in my dad’s day, it was like 212 many career. 300 Studio yet.

He had 66.

Oh my God any more, but he He did.


I hope you find an old edition of The Guinness Book World Record and keep it on a bookshelf.

So that I wonder if there was a mechanism or a platform by which I could acquire something is useless as a Guinness Book of World Records from 1987.

Yeah, you could easily track that down.


I feel like I probably you are very Savvy on the internet.

Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

If you dare.

So your dad owns a bowling center and bullying Cathedral and in Memphis.


Yep, and then in Florida.

No, that was my grandfather’s.

Okay, and then you eventually in this is to me where things get dodgy.

If I’m you you move from Memphis owed 7 does not attend.



Well, I was having that crises.


Chris is here.

Do not right.


You moved to Colorado in high school.

My mom, remarried.

My parents divorced.

My mom remarried.

The guy.

She married.

Who’s wonderful guy.

We moved to Denver Colorado for a few years.

How did you get the one?


Wonderful stepdad?

That’s kind of breaks the mold.

I cannot tell you how lucky I feel that both my dad and my stepdad both died.

But he was a good guy.

My stepdad, Jim’s name is Jim Hills, great guy.

And was he?

I want to ask a silly question.

Please ask a silly.


He was this honor their memory now.

At I said, they’re both laugh.

Hey, my father has passed to okay.


Okay, I’m sorry.

All right, you’re not so cool.

My dad’s dead 262 holes?

Your shit that made the 72.

Okay, but Jim was the stepped out.


Jim was a stepdad.

He wasn’t intimidated by your father’s prowess as a bowler.

Well, what’s interesting is that Jim was also a professional bowler for a while, but Jim was also but he was a lefty.

Oh, left-handed bowler.

And and that but he he gave up bowling.


Shortly after he and my mom started dating.

And but he was like a scratch golfer and he was just a crazy good athlete.

But also just a he was a lovely guy because he knew how to be a dad.

But he was very respectful that he knew he was not my biological father.

But but but he also treated me like a son but not in a way.


That was like, you fucking listen.



It’s just a good guy and very supportive and very, he was just a lovely guy.

Well, you know, I got a whole new respect for the business of Step fathering.

When in that year, I was Wasn’t in between Christian and the nine, your girlfriend.

I dated a woman with a son, what happens.


What is very hard about it?

Is, I fell in love with this little boy and now because I love this little boy.

I want him to turn out.

Well, you see something that they’re doing that?

You think is going to result in them being a shithead, you feel compelled to correct the behavior and it’s just a big.


No, you can’t really do that as the non biological father.


It’s also kind of strange.

I mean, it I’m not a parent, so I don’t know what the fuck I’m talking about.

But but knowing when someone is doing Something that is not going to have a good result.

You want to tell them and go.

This is going to get fucked up if you do it this way, but it also they don’t learn that way.


And then if you fuck it up because you told them, you made them aware of it and it’s almost like the Matrix thing of like, would you have broken the vase?

If I hadn’t told you about it, right?

You you damage the experiment by observing the experiment?

I just feel like you.


And I have had about 10 conversations at this point, and I feel like you’ve brought up the Matrix in almost all of them do Ooh, all roads lead back to them.

Did I?

Or is that just what your reality?

So that’s exactly.

When we get out of this you make me think of the Matrix we did because I look like Neo someone who you look just like him.



Because we talked about the this this notion that people have that we’re living in a simulation in my point, which I don’t think you agreed with was only people with awesome lives think we’re in a simulation.

Like, like, of course, Elon Musk is a big proponent of this Theory.


I’ve heard him talk about it, a bunch.

And I think yeah, that for Elon Musk.

It must feel like he is in a computer-generated world because there’s no way he’s that successful in his room invented this many things, but I don’t think there’s a coal miner right now digging in the cold going.

This is a fucking simulation, isn’t it?


I’m just in a coal mining situation.


I just happened to be the Unlucky guy who got stuck in the coal mining.

So unless he loves being a coal miner.


That’s what I was about to say.

I think what, I think the privilege now, I think that’s a patronizing and placating and what else to do.

To pretend that there’s a coal miner, who fucking loves coal mining.


I think those people who think to say that there’s no way his life is good.

I don’t say is why Simon?

I didn’t say his life wasn’t good.

I said the job sucks.

I look I’ve had those fucking jobs.

I was a roofer.

I detest old corn.

I they weren’t fun jobs.

Can we do me a favor?

Just call him out for saying that’s a very narcissistic point of view that just because he doesn’t like it means that no one else can like it.


Please call him out.

Alright, I call you out.

They call that naive realism apology.

You can’t comprehend someone in Doesn’t want a microwave coal mining versus owning Tesla’s.

Probably I think we can we can we don’t have to pussyfoot around that.


It’s probably better to own Tesla than fucking work in a coal mine and get black lung.

Also, is it, you know, I’m getting and then they’re stealing their sort of the subtle difference between working in a coal, mine and Mining that type of fuel and then an electric car.

It’s kind of a deep.


It’s gotten Alex.


So there’s so much more that I don’t know.

I don’t know if like if we if we unplug from The Matrix and Elon Musk is a guy in a mailroom.

Room who’s getting, you know, pistol whipped by a bad boss.

And then he Jack’s back into the Matrix and he’s like, I’m the smartest man in the world.

Yeah, I’ve privatized space travel.


I go to space.

I’m making I’m let’s maybe tubes underground.

So you move to Colorado.

Yes, sir.


And that’s for high school.

No, I changed school districts in high school.

And I found that very hard.

I like the heart.

No, I did.


Because my family, your stepdad ruled you loved.

I know in a whole new way.

I know Bowl.

I think coal mining’s and also I think it’s right, I do too.

I think we moved a handful of times when I was growing up.

And so that you know, this thing would happen with me where I was a I was almost popular for being unpopular in the sense that you know, I wasn’t chess club.


I did play D&D.

Yeah, and so in those days that a pre-internet era you really only could relate to like maybe three or four other people in your entire town.

And then that was it.

You did not have the joy and beauty of digital communities to connect.

The line people ride support you.


So what would happen is we would move and every time I would become I don’t know if it’s going to make sense to you, but I would become Capital City Mill House for like a minute.


Where I would be like a, I’d be like, oh, I like people didn’t think I was a dipshit.

And then I would just slide back into my old, like, I could not maintain, I could not maintain the facade and all the obsessions, the obsessions with video games and sci-fi, and stand-up comedy.


Like things that most other kids at that time.

We’re not To, yes, and I know it sounds strange to say that, but that’s true.

Most other kids were not into the stuff that I was into and so it always gave me a chance to start over.

Yeah, and I enjoyed that, even though I knew I was going to fuck it up, right?


I had a very, very steep decline.

I was cool in junior high and then I switched schools and started ninth grade with a short long.

You know, I could you not be cool.

The name like Dax will look, when you’re cool it works.

And when you when you have a really bad Short long and had skin and you’ve grown three inches in lost 10 pounds and your name Dax now it’s a it all backfires.



Mine was like, it went from having a blast in school to be miserable.


Oh and the worst like during puberty to like the worst time to not have I was 63 and 149 pounds acne.

And I’ve just the worst haircut you’ve ever seen but I think and I look back on those days on those really awkward times where I felt like it sucks to be socially ostracized.


I don’t enjoy not like Other kids because I think they’re into dumb things.

And then when I look back on that, I think well that was so significant because if I had been popular in grade school, then I would have peaked because I wouldn’t have occurred to me to be introspective in any way or really drive me to try to excel.


You would have you would have ran the risk of being content like life.

Whatever good you would have had a bunch of friends and probably want to stay in your town and then at a certain point, you know, life doesn’t get so easy and you don’t have as many of the coping In skills.

Because things came very easily to you when you were young.


Yeah, and I mean I’m oversimplifying.

Everyone has a fucking struggle but but ultimately and then at 25 or 30, you’re like, what the fuck?


You don’t know, you know.



I mean in one of the Malcolm Gladwell book that talks about which one blink, I can’t even keep track.


I’ve read them all but there’s a chapter on dyslexia and for decades it was known that.

If you were dyslexic you had a twice as likely to go to prison.

But then they’ve later found out that you’re also twice as likely to be a CEO of a company.

So it’s one of those things.


I think it was blink destroys you or makes you.


Yeah, so I think that’s why I kind of tell people the things that you think our flaws actually make you unique and those are actually weirdly your strengths.

Yeah, the things that you when you look in the mirror and you see some weird version or something or you obsess on one thing.


Number one, most people don’t also see that Because they’re obsessing about their own things.

And number two.

It’s probably just sort of a weird conformist evolutionary piece of biology in your brain that makes you think.

Like, I need to be this to be accepted, but then, hopefully you start to realize like, no, no, no.


That thing makes me unique.

And that is the thing that makes me, that, that provides the strength that I actually.

Yeah, but to your point about the biology, I do think people vastly underestimate, the fact that we are the ultimate Mid pack animals like we think of dogs.


We know, dogs are pack animals.

So we go because they’re pack animals.

We can train them this way.

We owe them.

Yeah, I jogs.

Good point.


Try jogs.


My analogy breaks down completely.

No, no, remember we all know, but we’re even more social than them.


You know what I’m saying?

So, you can do these things who had a dog and go.

Oh, well, the dog needs to know right away.

Is it Alpha Beta gamma, you know, if this is how you’re going to train this dog, it has so much hardwiring to be social to live in a pack, right?

We have even more hard wiring for that.

So our attest live in a pack.


When I think a dog also has it has a drive to be in a social hierarchy as do we though you look at every primate which we are a primate and they have the most clearly defined strata of hierarchy, you know.

Sure and we to have that.

So I think so much of our preoccupation about status and success and all these things.


They’re just they’re fucking carryover bad genetics.

Well, it’s also has four years.


Well because ultimately I mean, if you really think about that, part of a human’s, biological directive is to preserve your jeans.

And I’m not saying that’s all people are, you know, supposed to do her meant to do, but I’m just saying if there’s biological programming somewhere in our case, your friend Linda, you write them that says, you know, we you know, I have jeans I need to make sure g r and in order to do that.


I need to be accepted by a group in order to be accepted by a group.

I have to have certain skills or I have to do things so that I can Show what I think it’s part of the reason why those Co paths are so attractive and narcissist can be so attractive, because well, maybe not nursing split sociopaths because when someone doesn’t need you, you’re instantly attracted to them.


Because I think on a biological level you go.

Oh my God, what?

They don’t need anything.

They’re not injured.

They don’t need my approval.


And that tells me.

Oh, they’re above me.


I’m only seeking the approval of people that are above me and when I walk into a 7-Eleven and there’s the guy, With the parrot on his shoulder.


I’m not praying that.

He tells me, he likes how I parked.

Hope, he doesn’t meet the lizard guy.

But if Michael Schumacher, if Michael Schumacher’s walking on a 7-Eleven, I’m like, I hope he notices how well I park.

What if he had a parrot?

Would you be excited about that Michael Schumacher?

Yeah, he could get away with having a parent but I kicked that I’ve been complaining a lot lately is just about how I think social media, the internet upends, all of that.


And as much as I love it, I mean, I really do think that I’m crossing my fingers that it all Nets positively, but just in the way that it It encourages people to communicate is very toxic.

I’m concerned that a lot of those biological mechanisms are being applied to a paradigm that that preys on all of the weaknesses.


Yeah, are all of our wiring is Vesta.

Jill to that new.

Yes, high-tech Paradigm.

Yes, my big concern with it.

All is this is so okay, used to live in a group with 200 other humans, right?

And you lived with all the guys and the women all live together.

This is how we live for.


Thousand years and you were going to be the best at something, right?

You were gonna be make the best Spears.

You were going to something you would stand out for in and that would give you self-esteem.

And now you’re in a group of literally four billion people.

If you’re on Facebook, the odds of you being the best at anything.


It’s impossible.

You’ll never also, you’re dating.

And, you know, if you live with 200 people, you can pretty much guess.

Who’s the best gal you this is.

Yes Zack.

And I’m sure we talked about this in your podcast.

This is exactly why I am so fascinated by the Dunning Kruger experiment, yes, which basically you are?


You accusing me of suffering from donut.

I know the least about this topic, but it but it’s about it.

That’s exactly right.

Is that, that idea of people needing to be the best at something and so having people speak as experts when they don’t know.

Something is a, it’s not just because they’re being dicks.


It’s a biological.

And also the idea that people who are ignorant about something, not stupid, but I mean, ignorant of actual facts, they are too ignorant to know.

Know that they are ignorant about some things.

So they need to believe that they are experts in order to fold into culture and society.


And so, you know, when people get all Superior online, a large percentage of them genuinely, don’t know exactly what they’re talking about.

They’ve pieced a story together that they need to believe in order to allow themselves to function.


What’s that?



You told me about it about smart, people and dumb people.


Oh, there’s the, he felt.

It’s melted.


There it is.

That’s exactly what it was.

Um, it’s a Bukowski quote and I can’t remember it.


But it goes something like the the big tragedy of life for humans.

Is that the dumbest people speak the most in the smartest people speak.


The least something.

I’m fucking it up.

He worded it.

But if you discovered the done here is yeah before.

And of course there.

I’m sure we sound like assholes even talking about it.

So maybe we’re the dumbest people of all, but I do think that even recognizing that has been really interesting because it makes me more hesitant when I say things now, I’ve Become an over qualifier where I go.


Yes, I don’t, you know, like maybe this isn’t right or in my opinion, or but how many arguments I’ve got with people online where they say something to go.

Well, you know, that’s your opinion.

But this idea that we’re in opinion, as fact era.


It’s like, well, I feel this, so, if you don’t feel this, then you’re fucking stupid, because I’m right, and you’re wrong.


We’ll did you research that?

I mean, it doesn’t matter.

I know.

I’m right.


Well, I don’t know.

You know, I’m sure this happened to you.

Like I’ve been proven wrong dozens of Times online.

I’ve like tweeted something and then When post me an article or whatever and I believe that and then that feeling of having to acknowledge, I was wrong and correct.


It is it’s so painful doesn’t bother me, doesn’t?

I like it because I feel like I learned something.

See, people really misunderstand the difference between constructive criticism and just fucking toxic insults.

There’s a difference between oh, hey, I know you said this thing but here’s something that might Enlighten, right?


What are you?

Oh, my God, that’s great.

I’m so sorry.

I, you know, whatever.

I’ve just talking to my ass.


Thank you.

For teaching me something.

Yeah, versus.

Hey, you fucking idiot.

Yeah, what?


Circle of Satan’s anus.

Did you crawl out of?

And then you go, that’s really mean and they go.

Oh, I guess you’re not open to criticism.


Like, no, that was insulting.

No, I didn’t.

I’m pretty sure 9 out of 10 people would have found that insulting.

I feel like my experiences have not been that soft touch.

You just described.

I feel like most of the times I’ve been proven wrong.

There was a couple fuck use in there.

So it’s been hard for me.

It’s partial.

It’s largely.


Why I always try to Attack with kindness or let someone know because all the, while I think everyone wants to be heard.

Everyone wants to be heard because we all want to feel significant and connected.

Even if someone’s shitty to you, if you say like, hey, you know, I understand what your point is.



I’m listening.

I hear you.

Yeah, I don’t necessarily agree.

And also, you know, that was a little hurt, you’re great at that.

You you are particularly good at that.

And so is my wife, I will watch the way she disarms people and she’s in these spats online because she often is tweeting something.


That’s Semi political or, you know, has something to do with philanthropy.

It’s not always the first thing I.


I will allow myself to go fuck yourself in the face wheat, and then I delete it.


And then I, you know, because I think it’s important to ask yourself.


It’s just going to make my ego, feel better for half a second.

And then I’m going to hop on the bike and backpedal.

Yeah, and if I’m gonna backpedal, then I shouldn’t bother with this and I should, you know, in there any truth to what this person saying?

Am I Wrong?

Am I a dumb piece of shit?

I can’t remember you’re sober but I can’t remember.


Did you 12-step or no?

No, I went to a couple meetings in the beginning and I did not connect with them.

Yeah, and so I had a very good therapist and I had a good group of fellow stand-up comics who not surprisingly.

A lot of movement have had substance battles.



And so I sort of I did have a support structure a couple support structures now that I’ve been sober for 14 years up.


I noticed you’re sober like a year and a month longer than me.


So, if now that I’m sober for this long, I find I’m still learning things about myself and sobriety and I have gone to a couple of meetings that I really enjoyed and I understand them differently now.


Yeah, because I understand, I used to think my problem was alcoholism.

My problem is not alcoholism.

My problem is sort of obsessive its destructive.

Yeah, it’s excessive destructive thinking and it’s it’s control issues and it’s self-loathing and it’s all these things that alcohol was a manifestation of At, but the meetings where, you know, the couple that I’ve been to and I don’t go to them very often.


But when I do I was kind of feel like oh, yeah.

This is a thing that this is just a common thing that will look the easy.

It’s so easy to go and in focus on how different you are from everyone in the room, but if you can focus on the things that you have in common with people, I, you know, whatever.

I by the way I could care less how people get sober for the record.


However, they do it.

Yeah, but for me, the reason I bring it up is that you know, I’m kind of required to Take a daily inventory at the end of day.

And if I’m wrong, I’m required to promptly admit, it and say, sorry.

So I make a lot of apologies, whether it’s on a set, you know, I’ll be short with the costumer something, then the next day.


I’ll say sorry.

So, what’s interesting about Twitter or anything on the Internet, is this policy I have in real life, which is, I almost 100% the time will apologize to people and because I know I’m going to have to do that.

It does curb my, my actions you’re being account.

I’m going to have to say, sorry.


It’s just I’m not even going to do the thing.

I want to do because I know invariably, I’m going to owe someone.

Apology, but online I don’t I like that.

It has even crossed my mind.

That’s the only.

That’s why I only have accounts online where I am open about, who I am.

I do not have any secret accounts.


I do not do anything anonymously because it makes me accountable to people then and then you’re less likely to just treat people like trash.

But this idea of this AA idea, which I find it comforting and fascinating, just the limited amount of time that I’ve spent with it, and understand it is where your ego is pushing you.


To four significant significant significance.

It’s sort of admitting the idea that you are insignificant.

That is incredibly comforting than it relinquishes.

The idea that you are in control or have to control everything.

Yeah, the clearest case of that that happens kind of regularly is like you believe you are absolutely at war with another driver that they’re trying to kill you and you’re trying to kill them and then at some point you get to pull up next to them and you realize that they’re either on their phone or their life, fucking brushing their hair. - so you don’t know your own planet Earth.



It’s so humbling.

When you discover that, there’s another version of that which I know people who are listening and everyone has has been a victim of which is, you see someone at a party that you like and you don’t know him very well and you say something, maybe you crack a joke or you say something and then you get it.


Stuck in your head, you leave and you go.

I should have said that.

Yeah, I say that.

What did I say that to that person?

They fucking hate me.

And then you build this whole narrative, that is just being filtered and fed.

Through the lens of your own self-loathing and insecurity in your own and your own baggage lenses, and then you either call them or email them.


The next time you see me go.

I am so sorry.

I said this thing and they go, what are you talking about?

Like there?

Is there thinking about themselves?

Or they didn’t know that, you know, you did the narrative.

I’m the best Storyteller about how bad I fucked up.

I gotta say that’s when I’m most creative.

The these theories I can cock two things.


I said to people how they took them.

Now, what they’re doing in response to that is you say it’s completely in your head.

It’s fake.

But in the because I’ve had, I have worked, the steps and I’ve had to call, you know, most of the people, I fucked over during, you know, decade-plus have been a drunk more often than not.


I call them and I apologize and they go.

Oh, well, that’s nice that you said, sorry, but I didn’t give a shit.

We were all fucked up there, you know, whatever it is.

It is always a thousand times more powerful in my mind than not always often.

It’s more powerful my mind than it is theirs.


And then, what you learn from that whole process is.

Oh, I’m apologizing.

For me because I’m the one carrying it that persons not waking up in the middle of the night.

Remembering the time.

I stole their Vicodin out of their dresser, you know what I’m saying?

But I am and that’s why you apologized because it’s too much to carry around all these things that you fucked up.


You have an active imagination.

Like we do when we’re writing a narrative.

It’s just too exhausting.

I just have to kind of clean the plate at the end of every day, you know.

Yeah, and it’s interesting to me because I had great parents, my dad was, you know, I mean he wouldn’t Drink, he did.


Yeah, you did.

But it mind, and he drank until he died.

But it, it lessened as he is, but he’s still drank everyday.

He probably still drank like a six pack of beer a day slowly throughout the night.

Yeah, and occasionally would get drunk.

But, you know, when I was a teenager, my dad went kind of went through a midlife crisis, and he went through a thing.


But ultimately, he’s a great guy, and we had a wonderful relationship.

My mom’s amazing.

My stepfather was amazing.

And yet, somehow, maybe it was this idea of being feeling socially ostracized, and being shot at by other kids and not relating to them.

But at a certain point and I think it’s right around the time we hit puberty.


But this image that you have of yourself sort of freezes in your brain.

It’s kind of it’s cements in your psyche and you always kind of see yourself as that kid.



Yeah, and it just I get enough.

It’s just like the burst of hormones basically like and then the lava cools and then that’s the rocket reforms.


And so I feel like we spent a lot of time in service to that kid, or as a prisoner of that kids fears or whatever that whatever they were going through or whatever they were feeling.

And I think this is Why people are critical of therapy or any kind of self-help thing?

Is that the misconstrue it?


Maybe they do a lot of people do use it but there’s a very clear distinction between an explanation and an excuse.

That’s right.

And it’s really key that you understand that when you’re evaluating so it’s like it is first helpful to go for me.

Oh, yeah.

I was molested.

Wow, that that made things go in a right turn and then my dad was a drunk and blah blah blah, right, but but you should only be exploring that in so far as to understand why you have the These fears you’re not fix once you.


Yeah, you know, that cool.

Yeah, those are tools.

And that doesn’t give you carte blanche to act like that fucking ten-year-old for the rest of your life.

It’s like it’s useful to understand that but but only insofar as it is a means to an end, which is, oh, that’s why I have an irrational fear of this and I need to confront that.

That’s right.

Is why this person triggers me and I got to stop, it gives you that it gives you the tools in the chest, to figure out how to fix that stuff.


But we really do get this idea in our heads on a very deep level of what we think we deserve.

Irv, hmm.

Without really thinking too much about it.

And so that’s why success can be just as much of a trap for people as not succeeding in anything that they set out to do because if they have an idea in their head that they don’t deserve it or they or everything turns to shit or they they will destroy it, subconsciously us without realizing it.


And you really have to do take a step back and you know, I know I’ve certainly been guilty of it of taking a step back and going.

Oh, okay.

Okay, is this real or is this just a byproduct of that weird brain thing that I have power of?

It is absolutely mind-blowing and I was almost unaware of it for up until very recently.


So I have this list of things that I’ve convinced myself are my attractive.


The reasons, people like me are drawn to me, our United Nails.

One of them that my daughter did that on my birthday last not dammit.

See now.

I just fuck you.

What a dick.


We’re even for the coal miner.


That’s the thing.

I want to be thinking about for days.

I’m sorry.

I said the nail thing.

That’s a really love.

I think that worry.

I think that puts us back neutral from the coal miners because you’re going to win.

That one, went online people, do, whatever, that elitist.


Yeah, but at any rate, I have an identity, right?


That I’ve constructed and I have this list of things, I think people are attracted to me.

The big breakthrough for me was there was a stunt on chips the movie I directed and I chose to do this style and I chose to do it without any rehearsal because I didn’t want tire marks in the intersection, right?

So then when you’re watching the movie, you’re not, why are there already skin?


Mark’s that’s always a pet peeve of clear.


So I’m about to do this big stunts and everyone’s very nervous at the studio level and the producers are nervous because why on Earth is the director and actor doing this stunt.

And and I start questioning right before I hear action, why I have put yourself in this situation because it was a pretty gnarly stunt that could go wrong easily and I had to admit to myself.


I’ve convinced myself.

One of the things we like about me is that I’m a great driver and I sincerely say that like, I would put that in the top three of you had to tell me.

Why does your wife like you?

I would have probably said, you know, in the top three.

I’m a fairly reason I did this podcast, ha ha ha to be fair.

And then, another one is I have told myself for years that oh, people like being around me because they feel safe.


I will fight guys, and I will protect people.

And that’s something that’s appealing to people, right?

And when I, when I that, in fact, Kristen hated about me and make was very vocal about early in our relationship and I solely kind of started backing off the stories.

I tell about fighting and blah blah blah.

And I was getting into less interactions with people.


What it is, is what blows my mind.

I’m sponsoring this guy last year.

Who’s new newly sober.

He, I can tell he has the exact same identity.

He thinks it him being a badass or something.

Everyone likes about him.

And then so weakly, he’s telling me, he’s like, yeah, fucking home at the stoplight and I watch this guy like gonna push this old lady down in every week.


He Witnesses.

Something that requires him to defend another person and I go, oh my God, that was my whole life because I told myself this is what people like about me.

I was always at 7-Eleven when someone’s shoving someone and I got to get involved.

So, I can’t explain it.

I don’t know why that happens.

But since I’ve stopped thinking, that was like, one of my best qualities, I don’t see any of that anymore.


I have never involved in really, and you are really see the thing that you will confirm your identity.

That’s exactly right.

It’s confirmation bias Loop.

And, and the internet has not only allowed us to go down.

These is so, what’s been blowing.

My mind lately is the just to get back to the Matrix again in a weird way, but it’s just the concept of what is reality.


We were Danger.

Leslie far away from the Matrix.

I don’t try to dodge it like, Neo on the roof.

So but just the idea of what is reality and what is truth because you, you can create a confirmation bias Loop based on all of the sites that you go to you seek out and confirm, all the things you want to believe and algorithmically the internet will deliver those things to you.


Because it goes, oh, you already like this because one of the things that drives me crazy is when people pluralize something that they believe to give it weight.

So don’t go.

Well, everyone thinks that.

Yeah or all the fans of this are saying it’s like, are all of them really or is it you is it everyone have the strength of character to say, it’s you did you watch Obama on Letterman?


I haven’t seen it.

The reason I brought it up is because he tells a story of a study or something.

Bomber, let him information Obama that there was I could have guessed that there’s no way Letterman was talking about us.

There was some study where they had a A left liberal type into their search bar, Egypt and a very right, conservative type Egypt, and a moderate.


And what came up for the right wing.

It was Muslim Brotherhood for the liberal.

It was Tiananmen Square and then the moderate was vacation spot videos.

Yeah, and that is just what’s coming to you.

Not what you’re even attempting to seek out.


Well, but you are saying he’s saying that Google knows that your left, right?

Or Her.

Yeah, people just based on your search is based on your activity based on your everything you do or or Facebook, you know, Facebook site will direct you to reconfirm.

Yeah, thing you already believe but that is almost conspiratorial on the part of the internet, right?


It’s not I don’t see this conspiracy on the part of the internet.

I see it as I see it as a byproduct of convenience sort of being the enemy right where where a company goes.

We’re going to make it so easy for you to get the stuff that you already like.

Yeah, so you don’t have to think about, you don’t have to think about it.


You know, it’s set on, you know, someone said that you go.

Yeah, of course, I want more stuff.

I like.

But the downside is, you’re not seeing other perspectives.

You’re not learning how to compromise or not learning how to communicate.

If your iTunes, just delivering you country songs, you go, all music sounds like this like, well all the music.

You listen to sounds like this.


Yeah, just and I said that wrong, I guess what I meant to say is that even without that include incredibly complex apparatus the internet, you would do that.

Without that, that It’s kind of what I was.

I was in the internet, just makes it worse because it does that for you.





With far more computing power than your brain but with, but all we do on this podcast is talked about Sam Harris has pockets because we’re so obsessed Monica.

And I but he had, it was Jonathan haidt, right?

We had on a he was talking about confirmation bias and he was, he was saying that basically, we’re our brains are not capable of being objective.


It just really not in our brains in that.

Even if you give people contrary information that disproves what they already believe they They figure out a way to make it support.

They have to double down.

Yes, and then the point he made and then this goes back to AA, which is he said, but systems can be very objective.


And that’s why the scientific method worked.

That’s why the community of scientists and peer-reviewed that can accomplish something objective.


That if we all rely on this system and it checks our own work and co-pilots ourselves that you can approach objectivity.

And, and that’s why I like a, a simply because you have all these other people and you start Believing all this shit and then you hear someone else, say the exact same thing and you go.


Oh, right.

I do that.

And then this this system ends up helping you but even Broach that.

Yeah, systems are agnostic.


Well, some systems are agnostic.

But problem is that once you start plugging in the data, you can still get results that your own confirmation bias.

Can deny.


You honestly could show someone video proof that is in diametrically opposite to what they believe.

Yeah, and they will just like you said, they’ll go well that’s fake or all the time.

I got to get political and I don’t even care really.

But yeah, the fact that there are people that firmly believe that, when Trump said, no, that’s not me on those Billy Bush believes that.


That oh, it’s not him, even though you’ve literally just heard it.


Well, it’s full of people at his inauguration and there’s a image where stairwell, let’s let’s even go.

Let’s even go bigger than Politics.

The idea that there is like a strange Flat Earth movement.


This is like that.


You you that in 2018, you go like well, okay.

Maybe we know people don’t agree on everything politically.

We all know that the Earth and their words, a percentage of people.

Now, let me ask you in this in, this is, I’m asking you now to become an armchair psychologist.


And do you believe they believe that?

That’s my question.

Do you really believe they believe the Earth is flat or do you believe that they enjoy being a part of that movement so much that they don’t give a fuck if there?

It’s fine.

I think it’s a toss-up.

I don’t think everyone has the exact same reason.

I do believe and again is flat that I just want to say.


Never seen it as A ball, only a picture, but but it, but again, if someone starts going down the right rabbit holes and they are open to suggestion that it is not difficult because I do believe conspiracy, is the religion of the 21st century.



And the reason the conspiracy is such a religious thing for people is because the more information that’s out there and the more shit that our brains are trying to process.

The more information, there is to create a world that we can understand, and in order.

Do that we have to fill in gaps.


So that there are not logic gaps and we just it’s very much very much the same way that we look back and go ancient Roman times.

I thought that was a they thought that was your advert getting them.

It’s just so stupid.

But but people do that kind of shit.

Now with and the internet is there to take them down.


Those holes, just support it.

Well, you need the explanation.

I heard for the appeal of conspiracy theories, which I really loved.

I want to say, I heard it on that Hardcore History.

If you ever listen to that, I know the park.

Yeah, yeah, it was this, that the reason people believe that there were a bunch of people involved with killing John F.


Kennedy is that if they accept that One, Lunatic had the power to change the course of history that world, then becomes too fucking scary to live in.

So, it’s much more comforting to think that this was an elaborate plot by a lot of smart people.

There’s comfort in that, that, that it’s just too scary and dangerous of a place.


You know, that one idiot can fuck up it.

Because his point was, he was He was tracking back.

We think of that.

We live in this age of Terror.

They keep using this term.

Agent are any.

So we’ll really if you look at when we’re terrorism, really started.

It’s killing Archduke Ferdinand, which then starts World War 1, which then causes World War Two which then you know, you can track every fucking problem.


We have to this one act of terrorism and there were conspiracy theories about that, but on a bigger, but on an even larger scale, it’s the idea that but most people in order to survive are not comfortable saying, aye, I don’t know.

Why is this thing happened?


Why is the moon?

Why is this?

How come that?

I don’t know.

Most people aren’t comfortable with that because that feels to lay on it.

Well, it feels like weakness to to say, I don’t know, but it also feels like, oh well, if nothing has any meaning, and everything is random and chaotic, then why do anything?

You know, and it is not that I’m saying the world should go to AA, but just the idea of what they should.


I’ll say it for you, but I mean, but the idea of it’s okay to not know things and it’s okay to say to people like I do.

Why that is yes?

Is it?

I don’t know.

And we don’t know yet and maybe we’ll know at some point and that’s fine.

I, you know, I’m okay with not knowing for some time, you know, there’s a lot of unanswered questions, but we’ll get there.


But at least science was the pursuit of truth, but let’s take the 9/11 thing.

There’s all these 9/11 conspiracy theorist and for them, and I understand the appeal, its way.

It’s it feels much safer to know that the bushes somehow coordinated, this whole thing and that they wanted to go to war and it was an act of this government versus Eight Yahoo’s from all over the Middle East, took down the world trade, if that’s the truth.


If it Yahoo’s can destroy the World Trade Center, then we’re all fucking vulnerable and then again, but then again stepping back because I even see this mentality has bled into and obviously this is much less serious than what you just said, but I’m just trying to illustrate that it that it goes across all of our sectors ago, more serious than 911.



I know but it but it goes across all sectors is even fandom and Teammate, people treat like it’s a political movement.

And when things happen on shows or in movies, you see in the fan sites, all these conspiracy theories that people are 100% convinced.



Oh, well, you know the Studio’s did this and I you know, the you got what you got to understand is like but not most people don’t know it like don’t know what the actual facts are, but you’re watching all these narratives bill because people need to understand why something and again it’s because we’re becoming spoilers.

Consumers was not 100% the way that they wanted it and if we are not Not learning how to deal with things as not being 100% the way that they want it because so much like because our need for things to be convenient and what we do live in a time where you get most of the shit you want almost immediate.


And so if something is not exactly how we want it in any given moment, you know, delivered to us how we want it.

People flip the fuck out and it’s not just politics, It’s Entertainment, its food.

Its anything along those lines of, you know, the threads on these message boards about shows.


A lot of times it’s just bad writing.


Like, they didn’t think through a logic issue and because they love the thing, they now have to make it work.

Does that make sense?

Like yes, they gotta work backwards so it could just be shitty writing in one episode or some glitch in logic.


And then now you because you Revere this thing, you are forced to make it make sense, but also but again, you know, people watch them, they go something happened on the show.

This is fucking dumb.

This didn’t need to happen.

You go.

We haven’t seen the whole series yet, so you don’t know.

No, or you have you haven’t seen so you don’t know or like something happened in the you know in the last Star Wars movie.


Well, you haven’t seen the next one.

So you don’t know what’s being set up.

Yeah, kind of like, you know, and it’s why I’m my wife and I watch Mostly horror movies.

Okay, and I’m I’ve become very forgiving because most a lot of horror movies ever make love during.

Those are they are these know we power our them for the love and then dream and then we pick it resume resume.


So, but you become Very forgiving because a lot of horror movies are not great and it’s because a lot of them are, you know, very independent and people are doing the best thing in our budget.

And so you get very forgiving because it’s easy to go, why the fuck didn’t they do this or what to do that?


But if you were to talk to the director, the director might go.

Well we had no money.

We lost light.

Yeah, an actor got generator.

Be the only day we could shit and then you start realizing like, oh you start, not taking things personally and everyone takes everything personally because you realize like, okay, the director or whatever the person they weren’t, just trying to fuck your day up.


Yeah, they were and it goes back to what we were talking about before about thinking that everything is about you.


Yes, like, they had their own set of challenges and it just that’s what happened.

And it was not personal, which I find very comforting realizing that, you know, you.

You are also just a lover of things, which I think is a great thing to Aspire to be like you have this show talking dead, right?



It’s just you fucking love it.

I do and you just want to talk about it.

That’s And I obviously I would get shit more.

So, in the beginning for, like, we are not critical of the show, and why don’t you call things out that are good on the show?

And it’s like, I’m gonna theorize something sure.


I’ll let you let you hire a hypothesize.

I will because it will form.

I feel like I’ve been on both both ends of the Spectrum, which is you have pretty good self-esteem.

No, no about that.

No, I mean, I know what you’re saying, but he’s telling you know, yeah, I’m sure you do have good cell.


Don’t dunning-kruger me about my own.

I guess, let me, let me start at another angle because clearly, I’m not finding purchase on that argument.

So what I’m going to say is that as I felt very that that this business were all in was very out of my reach like when you and I met you and I didn’t have shit, right.


I was in the third level the Groundlings and you were doing stand-up.


With Edward that were no one was coming to shows, right.

So there’s no reminds me something so funny.

My sister brought over today a pamphlet of a show.

I did 20 years ago this August Was it was myself Melissa McCarthy, Ben Falcone Nat Faxon, all these people now that are working and so I text Ben Falcone up a photo of it and I said we should do a show this August 20 year reunions, and he said, yes, let’s remember to book two showings and have to cancel, it’s exactly what happened.


But, but when I was very outside of this whole thing that I thought I was never going to be a part of, I was way more critical of that thing because it was a system that That didn’t include me.

So I was trying to find error in that you had to because it helped you feel better about yourself.


Yes, because if you have to admit that just, maybe you weren’t right to be working yet.

Yeah, then it’s puts a lot of pressure on yourself and maybe that’s true.

Maybe, that’s not true.

Like I would gather information about actors who, basically, I loved, but I was jealous of.

And then I would tell people all this time about his own Bears, me.


But like this van, he was my favorite like, Wedding Crashers.

I was like, this guy’s amazing yet.

I would tell people that I never even met the guy but I would hear a little things about him.

Like, maybe drinks too much.

I would tell people that like, I would just do all these as you needed to make sense of why he was famous and successful in.

You were not.


Yeah, right.

I just have to have something on him because I so fucking jealous of him.

You know.

It like puts the ball in your court a little bit.

You’re not here on the core.

I’m not.

I’m some little piece of power over this thing.

I have nothing to do with.

So all I’m saying is that you’re in a very good position to be a lover of things.


Always been that way though.

You’re saying, yeah, and everything I do like, The my podcast or at midnight or any, anything is all about like celebrating and supporting, and I think I actually have remarkably low self-esteem.

I beat myself up, I get very critical of myself.

I always think everyone hates me.


Yeah, it’s so I don’t about your looks.

I’m not crazy about them and let me either.

And so is anybody?

I don’t think there’s anyone crazy about my looks like your wife.

I’ll fact check and No, and so I’m not, you know, like people and I’ve seen suffering about me about talking to over there.


Like we got understand hard work is contractually.


I’m like no one has ever said.

I’m not contractually obligated to speak positively of Walking Dead.

I mean, I don’t have to do anything, right?

I just choose to be positive because I love the thing and I’m very close to everyone who makes it and I like seeing the good in things because if you want negativity, it’s not hard to find that you can find that anywhere.


I honestly, applaud and I’m grateful that you are a source of positivity.

It’s really excellent.

And I struggle with it a little home because I’m feel like I’m spit it out so much in the world and I come home and I just kind of feel bad, you know, like I just feel like I’m empty.


I don’t know what I’m doing.

What the fuck I’m doing this.

But alright, so I’m gonna accept that.

You have low self-esteem.

Okay, but I am going to ask you to compare your current self esteem to your self-esteem when you and I first met well dramatically different.


That was so.

Tainted by alcohol.



You have depression as well.



I mean, I’m not on medication for it or anything but I recognize what I’m going through, right?

Like, you know a little I’m fortunate enough that it’s not to the extent that I can’t function or I can’t get out of bed or I can’t, you know, talk to my wife.


Like I just I have it to a degree where I feel that sort of, it just feels like there are weights on your soul and there’s no bright light.

Yeah, and the future is is going to be worse than the past.

That’s exactly right.

That’s exactly right.


So but at the time it was I was just so clouded by alcohol.

I can’t even say exactly how I felt because none of it was real, right.

So how about day one of getting sober versus now?

Um, it was because I want I want to be able to use you as a data point in my sure overarching theory that If we’re alike and we met at the same time, we both had drinking problems at the same time.


So we and we had a mutual girlfriend or a shared girlfriend.

Oh, so, there are some similarities.

Is this Andreas every both?



It was amazing.

By the way, we love.

We love you.

But this is like, we couldn’t applaud her more.


She’s brilliant and she helped you get over really surprised.

I really did.


I I said, I’m kind of owe her the rest of my life.



She was.

The person that said, you have a drinking problem and you really need to figure it out.

I’m not going to stick around for, like she had the strength of character to say, like I’m To be your nurse.

I’m not going to stick around for it.

She was, she has incredible.

She was so influential to me with that.


So yes, she’s amazing.

Yeah, but I assume or I’ll just ask you, did you tell yourself?

Because I told myself, if I had accomplish these certain set of things and I had a certain amount of money.

I was going to feel good.

She was convinced of it.

Yeah, I mean that but that is, that’s that thing that I feel like I joke about a lot, which is this sort of the filling the whole thing where there is a hole in you You that is not related to the external world, but you will try to fill it with external things.


Yes, and it’s almost like they’re in two different planes of existence.

And so you can throw money or success or alcohol or sex, or whatever there.

And that all stuff, just all phases through the hole.

Yeah, and it doesn’t fill it.

It just falls through the hole and all the stuff that fills the whole is you getting to know yourself, better forgiving yourself.


It’s like, it’s all of that annoying self-help shit.

Yeah, for me, like, when I, when I broke, Down that word self-esteem and I started thinking like, oh, self-esteem comes from a doing esteem.

Ebola lacks, you know, and as you do things that aren’t related to status and money and all these things, when you go out of your way to fucking help, somebody that it’s inconvenient to you.


You came to my podcast today.

You’re the busiest person.

I probably know when you drive home tonight, whether you enjoyed this or not, you’ll probably feel kind of good that you, you helped me today.

No, I’m totally happy to do your podcast you but you, but it’s nice.

You are of service to me today.

And And I hope you feel good because of that definitely.


Yeah, because contribution really contributing to society to contributing to your community feels good.

Because that is the real connection point.

It’s not necessarily what you’re standing in that Community is but if you feel like you’re really contributing, then you’re connected.


Because if you’re contributing, you have to be connected and that being that, that’s a being a part of something.

And while you’re doing those things, it’s kind of hard to be thinking about yourself as much as I Like to.


Left to my own.

Yeah, funny there.

Can weirdly be selfish reasons.

Why you are contributing to help other people’s you go.


What feeds me at the same time, a little INR, an Randy.

And in that belief, I do think you ultimately are doing everything selfishly, but that’s okay.

But yeah, when you’re, when you’re hearing your friends problem about their marriage or whatever, it’s really hard to think about yourself.

And it’s a fucking nice relief to stop thinking about yourself.





It really is it really is because we all need a Fucking break from thinking about are so I know for this fucking guy right here.

So you wrote a self-help book I did.

And what is the theory of that book?

It was sort of looking at the way the kind of you know, and I know it’s an overused term, but sort of the way the nerd brain works.


How many what the nerd brain is the nerd brain?

Common misconception XP was go, what’s a nerd and I was gay.

I’d say it doesn’t matter whether you like Star Trek our action figures or Esports or whatever it is.

But the nerd brain is basically an obsessive brain, it will unnaturally obsessive over something but not just obsess, but also in the level of understanding like a true nerd, brain will try to understand something deeper than any other living creature.


And a lot of cases, like, use that information against other creatures, but in general, it’s really try to understand the nature of something better than than anyone else.


And so, when I quit drinking, I realized that I do obsessed.

Over things and I do have this unnatural ability to focus on things and while I was working on that I realized like well, maybe like we were talking earlier maybe that weakness is actually an asset.



So if I know how to unnaturally focus on things, maybe instead of focusing on hating myself and drinking and destructive Behavior, I will focus on constructive things.

I will focus on creating things that I want to be a part of.

So that, at least, as while I’m learning about why I’m obsessive about things, at least the things that I will be obsessing over.


Are constructed will be beneficial.

So it’s so it’s saying to people like that laser focus that your brain has over things that you really are passionate about.

You can use that to your advantage and capitalize on the anxiety and the obsession and try to flip it so that you are sort of forcing it to work for you rather than to basically destroy you.


And do you have descriptive action, you recommend because it sure here’s another great thing.

We heard the other day that The the, we were listening to a podcast about a guy who this guy, he’s a New York Times journalist or something, but he’s uh, numerous occasions lived a certain way for a couple years as an experiment and then wrote about it.

So he lived biblically for two years like my the book literal biblical.


He tried to become the healthiest guy in the world.

But anyway, he said his conclusion, after doing all these things is that it is a lot easier to act your way into changing your thinking, then to think your way into changing your actions.

Yeah, and I think that’s a very powerful thing.

So when you’re, when you’re trying to Use your powers for good.


What physically are you doing?


What steps does one take to do that?

Well, so it’s very helpful to collect data to understand how you approach the world because I think most people just sort of live.

They sort of believe that life just kind of guides them wherever they’re going.


This happen to me fuck this happening and I think a lot of people don’t realize that.

Even on a very microscopic level.

There are very quick choices and not all, I mean, I’m not I’m not trying to sound like a privilege.

Piece of shit to say everything brutally raped or this is excluded that or and yes or any any any horrible tragic thing that has befallen you?


I’m talking semantics racial.

I’m talking about like a little things day-to-day or someone’s at a job.

They hate and they go, man, of course this, you know, yeah, I fucking didn’t get that promotion this happens.

If this happens to me all the time.

Yeah, then you sort of go when I look at my oh, I won’t talk about other people talk about my own myself.


Why was I not working?

Why was I not getting opportunities?

Well, Because everyone hates me, or I’m not this, or I’m not famous enough for.

I’m not this, but I start going back.

And I look, and I go.

All right.

I did make the choice to drink everyday.

I did make the choice to play a video game instead of working on sides.


When I had an audition.

I was making little choices that I didn’t realize, we’re choices, right?

But then getting angry at the result as part of a bigger conspiracy.


And so what I started doing was tracking like, what do I do in a day?

And I would time that Like oh, wow.


I did, you know this and this from this time to this time.

And then I went down a rabbit hole of, you know, looking at squirrel videos on YouTube from this time to this time.

And what I found when I gather this information is, oh wow.

Now that I have this data, I can manipulate this data and I have more of a minimally, you’re getting an honest account of, what the fuck you’re doing.



Because no one knows your most of the lot of times you just do things very mindlessly because you’re on autopilot.

Yeah, and so then I realized like, oh, I can start to Pilot this chip a And I can’t, obviously I can’t control things that happen in the external world, but I can control how I react to things how I respond to things.


I can change, where I devote my energy during a day I can.

And so I basically just I just started accumulating data until I realized, I got a much better understanding of how I approach things and how I do things because it allowed me to then make changes in those areas.



And move things around sort of, you know, as modular units.

Yeah, to then start making healthier choices.

And then when you start making healthier choices, it just has its own mum.

It has its own momentum.

Like I would say like, you know, answers really do reveal themselves to you, when you’re asking the right questions.


Yeah, but you’re not going to get all the answers at once and once you start down the path, it’s just like you said, how you noticed you were living a very toxic life.

So you always notice fights.

Yeah, when you start living a healthier life, you start noticing healthier things because that’s what you’re Didn’t our brains?


You can teach your brain to focus on anything.

If I say to you like look at the look how the color brown is everywhere.

You’re gonna look around the room.

And look at that frame.

Look at the picture that great day and look at that lampshade.

Look at that lid.

Yeah, that’s all you’re going to see because that’s how your brain gotama.

Is that what that’s called.


I don’t know.

I think it’s I don’t know if it’s a.

I thought it was like the reticular activation system or there’s some part of the brain that sees what you are focused on everywhere.


I have come to think of my mind.

And well-being, the same way.

I think of my body now, which is my body will never be in a state of homeostasis.


It won’t just stay this way.

It is either getting shittier or it’s getting better.

I either have to, you know, I’m either working out.

It’s getting better and better better or stop doing things and starts, getting worse, until everything is in a state of growth or death.


And so, growth or Decay, I should say.


And when you start thinking about your own mental Fitness, that way of like, oh, I like, as you say, you make this one, good choice early in the morning and that that potentially will lead to another good choice.


Later in the afternoon and so on, and so forth.

Versus I start my day, and I eat a fucking s’more right?

Bunch of bad.

Decisions are probably going to follow that, right?

I’ll be because also a lot of things that you think are emotional are actually physiological.


Oh, so if you are if you are sedentary or if you wake up in the first thing, you do is put a lot of sugar in your body.

It’s going to affect your mood.

It’s and when it affects your mood, it affects the choices that you make.

And when it affects the choices that you make, it affects your life and The lives of those people around you and so it really is not that hard to see that if on.


Am, you know, if on a Monday, you make a really bad choice and you just keep making those choices over and over again, it just creates and it snowballs and becomes your reality.

You did.

You happen to read sapiens or homo dais?



The second book Amadeus goes a lot into this notion of self, right?


We think of ourselves as being, it was that being one thing sell myself.

When in fact you have a minimally to sell One of them being your experiential self and then one being your narrow file in your baby and then your narrative self.

Sure, right.


So so the experiential self will be on your phone looking at Facebook and you can do that for three hours and you’re you’re very happy doing that.

That’s your, that’s your experiential self.

But then you go to bed at night and you, you’re now writing the story of your life.

And then you you’re evaluating that day.

And you go, man.

I spent three hours staring at Facebook.


And now that self is very unhappy with the experiential self choices.

And I do think like being Cognizant of which self are you?

Servicing is useful.


So, what you just said right there, so the idea of writing shit down not just collecting data, but if you were to ask most people what they want, a lot of people couldn’t tell you what they want.


They know, they just want more of something.


That they think is going to make them happier.

And so that data when you write down like and I got very Adept at writing down goals like daily.

Yeah and seeing where I was at being open to change and The book is you can change.


You can change our idea but writing down.

What do I want while?

I want this.

This and this and then you say why do I want those things?

And the reason you do that is because you might find out, you don’t actually want the things that you think because of what’s required of you to try to manifest.



Are you kind of when you start going?

Oh, this is really the nature of this thing.

I don’t really want that.

Yeah, so it’s understanding that.

But I think the most important thing to remember is that whatever you believe about yourself is true.

Brain is designed to answer any question that you throw at it.


And if you ask it, bad questions, it will give you bad answers.

Why do I fail?

Why am I piece of shit?

Why do I always do this?

Why does everyone hate me?

Well, because you’re dumb and because you’re ugly and because you don’t you have no Talent, you know, but if you say well, how can I do this better or what?

Can I learn from the it empowers you to get the data that you need to?



You know, then the second side of that is this is the GI Joe knowing is half the battle.

The other half of the battle is actually applying that well.

Yeah, one of my pet Users people who start a lot of sentence with.

I’m the type of person who blank and I feel like people say the type of person that they are quite often.


It’s not the type of person they are and there’s a line in a a which is I was upset that people were always judging me from my actions and not my intention.

Oh my God, that’s exactly.


That’s it.


Like you’re not what you think you are.

You are what you physically fucking dude you show up on time for work or not.


That’s exactly what I was talking about earlier where people online will always argue.

That you about their intentions and not their actions.

Yes, and I always say to them like your intentions do not justify your approach.

They’re not relevant.

They’ll do it doesn’t matter people.

I was just trying to.


I was just trying to is my least favorite fucking afraid.

Yeah, it’s usually used as excuse rather than saying like, oh, maybe I was mean or maybe I did something that caused this situation or maybe I it basically it doesn’t accept the responsibility when you go.


Oh I was just very People say I would like to be chaotically evil today.

Yeah, you know most people have good intentions.

Yeah, just for whatever their whatever they think they need to do.

But what was your action?

What did you do collecting collecting that data is so valuable because it allows you to see yourself from an outside perspective.


Once you put it into the material Universe, you are able to look at it a little more objectively.

Yeah and go wasn’t you?

Did it which is numbers.

So it’s kind of dissing Passion by Nature.

It’s just right here are the numbers.

Yeah, this compassion.

But Dacia and I want to start doing B.


Know I was going to say, just in Passing By Nature, as my rap group.

It doesn’t matter.

It was a bad bitch.

I regret it at the second.

I started it.

Your improv training would have told me to commit to it, but instead, and then I would have been forced to fucking.


And yeah, you had to, I would have to say, oh my God.



I saw you guys in Atlanta.

You were fucking great.

I don’t love your third song in the set.

But yeah, and then I would have to I would have to yes and whatever that song was and talk about what Chris I just want to.

I just want to publicly say you’re someone that I have a ton of admiration for both because I kind of put you in the Seth Meyers category.


I have in my head of people who like fucking work their ass off.

Thanks, man.

I just you’re smart and your messages wonderful and beyond all that.

You’re you’re very open and willing to talk about the Sue penis that led to all this which I think is very help.


I love I love.

I like talking about it.

Not just because I like to hear my own voice but also in addition to that I fourth on the list past that.

But but the reason that I like talking about it openly is number one.

It is helpful for me to talk about it out loud.


Yeah, but number two, if anyone is able to extrapolate, even one molecule of anything helpful from the dumb mistakes and stupid choices.

I have made, or the way that I To me, I sort of feel like that is the, that is great.


Yeah, that makes me happy.

If someone else hear something go.

Oh my God, I never thought about that.

Or you said something really stupid, which reminded me that I say something really stupid.

And so, you know, yeah, so it’s I it’s just the same reason that you sponsor people or the same reason it’s community.

And again, I can identify with you beating yourself up over something.


You said at a party.

I can’t actually identify with the Empire you run.

So if you wanted to come here and just talk about that because You do you have this forum?

You do you have this crazy impressive Empire.

And if you were here to just talk about that.

I mean, like one great.

I don’t have a fucking Empire.

I can’t really do anything.


But but to know you know, you think your looks are so so and you, you know, you second-guess everything.

You say to somebody that is hugely inspirational know, it’s hard to picture people that don’t I just assumed like, well, everyone thinks that they’re about to get tapped on the shoulder and asked to leave the party.

Yes, even though it’s easy for me to talk openly about it.


I fall prey to it constantly.

Where I get caught up on my head about some dumb thing on the internet or something.

And you know, my wife is very she’s a very optimistic positive person and then I kind of rain on the parade because I’m stuck in my head about something and I then have to take a minute and go.


Oh, I’m doing the fucking thing, your schtick.

I’m doing yeah.

I’m doing the old clown.

Chris Hardwick stick and even though even though you know, I think I’m so right.

About something and I’m so Justified.


And you know, no you can’t, you know, and Lydia’s amazing it going like because she’s one of the fucking coolest people.

I know but she’s also not by any means a doormat.

Like she’s very accommodating, but she is also not afraid to go.


Well, there are two people in this relationship and just because you want a certain type of experience right now.

Does not mean that we both should have that experience and I have to go right?



Yeah, right.

I so relate to that.

And in fact, I now through a lot of practice when I feel myself building an intellectual case again, something that my head.


I now go, that’s a red flag.

Your feelings are probably hurt, or you are fearful, and I’m not texting away from Law & Order.

Yes, but I can feel myself preparing my opening statement to something to Chris.

And I go, oh, that’s a bad sign.

That means you’re scared.


Yeah, of something.

If you, if you would all think of the words exhibit.

A, you’re in a lot of time for you to go take 15 minutes after bedroom and just think about maybe what you’re scared of taking.

There’s almost certainly something you’re scared of in that moment everything.


Well Chris.

Thank you so much for coming.

Thanks one block from your house.


No, it’s an honor to come on and I’m glad that you’re doing a podcast because again the more first of all, you’re super fucking funny and the more people that are willing to talk about this types of stuff mental illness.



And talk about it in very Way it just sort of destigmatize has it for people who feel like I’m a mess and I’m too broken for anyone to love and I’m too.

It just makes people go.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, a lot of people do this shit and I and it’s fixable.


It’s you can deal with it.


Well, I hope this stuff is the antidote to looking at your friend’s Instagram page, which is curated in your literally comparing your normal life to this perfectly curated again.

Moments are like tricks ideal.

Matrix ideal everyone’s full of shit.


All right.

Well you and I are doing our part.

Thank you, Chris.



Stay tuned.

If you’d like to hear my good friend and producer.

Monica badman point out.

The many errors in the podcast.

You just heard.

Christ of her Hardwick.


Monica, I can only imagine you’re excited to go through this one because I’ve already added you in already about this, but I’m going to do it again.

When he left the addict lovesick, you were lovesick, use you express the fact that you were, you found him in person to be very attractive.


I did, you thought he was very smart barest.

Are you hope?

Because he might listen, he would never listens the guy who Himself creates, like, 400 podcast that he’s on 12 shows.

He can’t listen to this.

So you should feel free to be as honest as possible.


Well, I’m in Love with You, Chris, if you are listening, I know, you’re not, but if you are, and I know you’re not, if you are love you, this episode is brought to you by.

I love you.

Yeah, was that my Monica bad, man.

I love you, man.

Now Love Actually, that’s a very polarizing movie.



I see it as a punch line as in a lot of scripts.

I read.

They like make love.

Jokes, right.

Didn’t you?

Even have an audition where they’re making a Love Actually joke.


I don’t know, but I feel like it’s somehow it’s a polarizing movie.

I didn’t realize it was, so I just thought it was a great.

There’s a great movie, right.


Good movie was very universally loved by by actual and that meant actually, it was universally loved actually.

Yeah, because mainly by females and men, but mainly by females, it’s like a notebook adjacent movie.


Yeah, but isn’t it English or English director?

Oh brittish.


I thought you meant in Yeah, it was British, right?

It was it Kurt.

I love this guy.

I do his red nose campaign every year.


He knew Grano.

He directed Pirate Radio and wrote Notting Hill.

He might have directed.


Oh, he’s Curtis Curtis.

Oh fuck.

I don’t know.

It doesn’t matter.

I don’t know Richard.

Curtis Richard Curtis who?

I loved it.

He do love actually.


Did he we don’t know Rob’s doing some high-tech.

Check on the Fly.


Get back to us, Rob on that.

Okay, hit us with some facts.

Love Chris Hardwick.


Yeah, and you all do too.


I’m sure after having listened.

Oh, you’re so smart and so fun.

And so genuinely nice person.


Yes, is rare.


Oh, Richard Curtis wrote Love Actually.

All right, you said you saw Glenn Danzig on a plane and he was short.

Yeah, and I just checked and he is 53.


That’s, that’s sure.

Yeah, that’s below the median hide.


That’s a little taller than me also as a kid if you’re watching Glenn Danzig on VHS tapes.

He looks like a monster on stage.

He was like super bill in his video.

He wrestled an alligator.

Are you would wear like a net shirt and his video a big pack?


So it’s just in my mind.

He was, he was like He-Man and then in real life, he was just he was short, which is great.

There’s nothing wrong with?


No, not at all.

I love it.

I love.

I only like short people.



You’re barely here.

Yeah, you’re barely measure you and Kristen.


She’s five.

She’s I think she says 51, but I don’t think she is.

She’s hotter than me.

And I’m 5 foot and a half inch.

This is probably 5145 one and a half inch.

We were searching for the name of your favorite barbecue place in Memphis and their catchphrase is puts the Blue Plate.


Open your mouth Blues City Cafe.

Oh, blue City, Cafe.


I’m glad you.

And I would like a t-shirt that says that but some South in your mouth because I’m from the dear old.

So do we have like an address people can send us gifts?


I feel like we’re not asking anyone to pay for this podcast.


At least we could get us.

Some t-shirt shirt that says, put something down or opiates or something.

Can you?

Send us drugs and I can provide Monica some MDMA.

I want her to experiment with that.

She’s seen me pass on that.

What do you want Prada shoes?

What did you say?

Yeah, somebody send me some some some Louboutin shoes.


Fancy chocolate.


Someone mail me a Ferrari and talking about professional bowling.

Oh, yeah.

This was, I found this to be the most fascinating aspect of Chris Hardwick story.

You kept calling it a bowling alley.

No, no, he, you know, He kept calling it a bowling center, which no one in the world calls it that and I finally said, why the fuck are you calling it?


That’s really, it’s a bowling alley.

You were being rude.

Okay, to your boyfriend to call it an ally.

That’s what they’re called.

You roll the ball down an alley.

That’s what the lane you come.

It has a derogatory.


You think it’s a pejorative Ali known as a derogatory.

Connotation that does bad.

Well, shit happens.

Well, shit happens and no, bad, almost abou, get murdered, half a bouquet.

These books are set in an alley.

That’s where you want to be.

That’s where the actions happening.


That’s where the stories are created.


All right.

Well, we’re so off topic.

I could get to a fact.

Okay, so in professional bowling, Chris S.

But the amount of money current professional bowlers are making is equivalent to back then.


When his dad bolt like, he thought it hadn’t changed.

Okay, and he thought the highest-paid bowler would be making around 250 to 300 thousand and according to the professional Bowlers, Association.

The highest-paid bowler last year.


Earned one hundred and sixty eight thousand two hundred and that is embalmer.


I feel like we’re the best at something in the world.

We gotta, we gotta get that up.

That’s how I’m professional Bali.

Bodybuilding was prior to Schwarzenegger, taking over those things.


So when he won the mr.

Universe is.

I think he 15 cents and then he took it over.

And then the now that prize money is up in that, you know, it’s a significant sum.

He quad, you know, he timed text layer that it went down.

Well, I assume that that parallels America’s interest in Bowling.



It’s gone down from its height.


He his dad still holds the record for Total pins in an eight-block game.

Well, really and how many pills Hardwick Billy Hardwick ear old eight games in?


Let’s let me just set the bar so high.

He bowled a perfect 300 in all eight games.

He could have got a possible score of 2400 points.

What did he get?

2165 J Elam.

Yeah, that’s impressive.


That’s basically like he rolled 7 300 games, 21.


Good for Bill.

Well, that was a nameless.

Yeah, Billy Hardwick, Billy Hardwick that Billy’s don’t like being called Bill.

Probably not know.

It sounds completely different, you get it.

Cause once a cute little name and one is like the sheriff.



Bill Buckman or Billy the Kid.

Yeah, racing with the moon.

Oh, you said you didn’t know who got whose girlfriend pregnant of those to know?

Oh, yeah.

Well, let me tell you right now.

I think that Nicolas He’s got his girlfriend.



Now, you know, I think this is one of these things where I bet if we re listen, I’m not sure I agree with you.

I promise.

He said he said, I don’t know who got pregnant, but it was all right.

So it was Nick Cage has character.

Yeah, and he played Nikki in the movie, right?


His character’s name was Nicky.

I’ve never seen it.


I thought maybe though, when you Google search, the soda said, Nikki probably did, I’m gonna be very forthcoming and say this fact-check happened, a many.

Maybe a month ago.

Don’t ruin the illusion of this honesty here.



All right.

All right.

All right.

We’re just doing what we can, we do what we do.

All right.

What else?

Hey, Malcolm Gladwell chapter on dyslexia is in David and Goliath.


Okay, you should remember that because you bring that up a lot.

Yeah, baby and a great way.


It’s great.

I’m so gonna run out of my little tidbit know they’re great.

Like what did Hardwick disease done, 800 podcast or something crazy.

Did we get that number?

I mean, How is it on Earth is he have anything to say?

He was just repeat it.

No one cares, I guess.

Because when I listen to stern Stern’s tells the same exact story about his fucking mom and dad and I love it every time.



Yeah, I think everyone likes it.

But also he I know because I like him so much Hardwick.


He just really just goes off what his guests because his guests are going to bring new information every time.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, he’s much better at that than me as I’ve said in earlier intro that you might have missed but it has been pointed out to me that I do interrupt people too much and maybe even talk too much.


But anyways, he’s great at not doing either of those things.

I don’t think you do those.

He’s the things but I think that he doesn’t, he does a good job of listening to his guess and then typing.



He’s great at it.



Now, oh we were sort of unclear on the Bukowski quote.

So the quote is the problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts.

While the stupid ones are full of confidence.

Oh, what a good quote, really good quote?

Yeah like that.


He starts it with the problem of the world.

Like, he’s me, got it.

He’s narrowed it down here, nothing and he’s right.

He’s virtually, right?


Oh because we were must have been talking about the dunning-kruger effect.

I think so, yeah.

Hmm, because he he discovered it before sociologists actually put some data behind it.


He made that exact observation.

Yeah, exactly.

We talked about the Flat Earth movement and in the percentage of people who think the Earth is flat and I couldn’t find the exact percentage because they’re too fucking stupid to answer a survey.




But there was an article, I feel fine that we said that, yeah, or alienating.


If you’re a fan.

Ended that I don’t that cut, I think you’re stupid because you think the Earth is flat.

You know sayonara.

Yeah, sayonara suck ass.


I couldn’t find the exact percentage, but there was an article in The Economist that said America’s Flat Earth movement is actually growing.

Oh, I believe that because I never heard a thing about it.

And now I constantly am hearing it.

Yeah, that’s it.

Because data from Google Trends, show that in the past year, served, as for Flat, Earth have more than tripled, though.


That’s a little dicey knee.

It could be misleading.


Because yeah, because a lot of people are like me, are you trying to figure out how many doofuses out there?

Actually, I bet the amount of searches for terrorism has gone up a ton in that doesn’t mean terrorism.

Has gone up a ton of.


Here’s what I personally here’s what I’m frustrated with.

We’ve all seen the photo of Earth from the Moon.


Or from the satellites and so there, I guess what they’re saying is look, it’s a circle but what they’re not acknowledging is all the continents are not on that Circle.

So where the rest of the fucking continent?


They’re on the app.

What do they think?

It’s on the other flat side?

There’s something about they’re saying, like, I’m actually they’re winning by us even talking about.

I know, like they’re saying something so fucking stupid and we’re spending energy trying to dissect how they could possibly think that.



I know they won the Terrace one.

Those aren’t ours.

Okay and talking about 9/11 speaking.

Oh geez.

Whoa, really?




You mentioned the gate Yahoo’s?

You called them.


Yahoo’s who took down the World Trade Center, but they’re actually 19 hijackers.

All on the planes 19.

Hijackers that day.

Yeah, really.

Because there was three planes for right for, yeah.


Three succeeded.

One did not and so on.


Each plane or saying there’s.

Yeah, that’s interesting.

I also thought that some of them didn’t make it like they were all in Florida together.

I think they would say trained to fly at some place in Florida and then they, they met up some, where did they go out?


They went to Hooters or something.

There was one part of the, the story that was like, huh?

That doesn’t seem in keeping with this movement, but it also, but it does.


Yeah, so they were at a Hooters or something and counterintuitive.

Who got drunk?


Yeah, they were drinking, which, of course, my interpretation of sharia laws.

You’re not allowed to drink.

And so, they were drinking and they were at a excuse my French almost a titty bar and and then they, yeah, a little ironic.

But yes, I think some of them didn’t make it.


There were supposed to make a die.

I mean, look, if I were going to die the next day, I would perhaps go to Hooters.

I’d get hammered, even though I’ve been sober.


Yeah, I would 100% get hammered.



You reference the AJ.

A Jacob Sam Harris podcast, which I think you may have already referenced but I’ll just say the name is not ring a bell to me.


AJ Jacobson has he is the one that says act your way into changing your thinking?

Instead of think your way into changing your address.

That’s probably you probably said that and then and I’m crediting that’s from AJ Jacobs on Sam Harris podcast.

Yeah, the guy who wrote the book somewhere doing weird things for I mean biblically, right?



Okay, and then I made a note, I fact check this already and gave a little more context context on Seth Green’s episode.

So, if anyone is interested, they can pop over to set up over.


So this was so interesting.


Mmm, creamy put a, let me put a bib on.

This is gonna be juicy a new pair.



I’m back up panties.

He was talking on his self-help.

Like you can train your brain to see the The world differently than you do currently.


Yeah, and he was saying, you know, there’s this thing that happens in our brain.

Where if you someone says the word Brown and you automatically start seeing everything and I said, I think that’s called scotoma.

Yeah might be wrong.

You’re wrong about that.

I am.


What is scotoma?

Bree told me that.

I’m going to blame her for that.


Okay our them he believed it.

It is scotoma is a partial loss of vision or a blind spot.

So it’s used metaphorically.



Lead means a blind spot.

Early means blind side.

But if you have, like, I’ve never seen the Star Wars so that I have a pop-culture scotoma there.


Oh, okay, so it can be used as a general t.i.


So how I always explain to me and how I understood it and I have looked it up now that you say it and I realized that it wasn’t at all what I thought it was but then this is how I found my way back to it.

So we explained it to me is you’ve never noticed how many BMWs are on the road?


You buy a BMW and all of a sudden you realize?

Oh my God.

Everyone has the same car as me.

So I guess in that context your Gotama was a previously to owning it your scrotum was, you were unaware of how many BMWs were on the road and then you buy it.

You buy one and then it reverses your scotoma, I guess.


Yeah, so I gotta I gotta figure out how to use it.

Well, I’ll tell you the actual, the actual thing you’re talking about.

Yeah called baader-meinhof phenomenon.

Oh that sounds German.

Yeah, it does or baader-meinhof also known as frequency illusion.

Frequency Illusions are Tasties term.


I’ve used him so much since I did.

Fact-check say though German one again baader-meinhof baader-meinhof.


And yeah, and so that is that when you hear something or see something or learn something new, it pops up everywhere.

Okay, baader-meinhof.



No just baader-meinhof.

They the mind of goodness.


This is a terrible idea to teach the gates.

So by most students go bought stock.

There’s more about this.

Oh, please because it’s really interesting.

So that happens.

Because of our brain, the recency effect in our brain and Chris had mentioned this the reticular, what did he call it?


The reticular activation Center in our brain who is that is connected to this.

So that’s a part of our brain that basically keeps pieces of information, relevant pieces of information in it because we can only hold so much at one time.

We are conscious mind.

Can Only Hold slightly more than 100 pieces of information every second you.


Yeah, interesting.

Yeah, so there are That’s a lot though.

It is a lot, but we’re getting so much more than that.


So the reticular activation system filters through the things that should stay in the things that.




There are certain types of information that always get through the gates of Ras.


So the sound of your name being called hmm.

Anything that threatens your safety of you or Loved ones and an indication from your partner concerning sex that just cuts right through the, the bull.


Shit never gets filtered out.

That’s, it’s always straight to you.


Oh, interesting.

If you’re if that part of your brain is working, I guess, right.

So I mean, those are things that your brain is considering the most important sensory.



It’s to you.

Yeah, so your safety make sense sex.

That makes sense.

What was the first one your name?

Yeah, that’s peculiar.

Because what a late bit of evolution the brain.



Because we didn’t vocalize names for so long in our Evolution.

It’s a relatively newer thing us being languages.



So that must be one of the last parts of our brains that evolved, you know, yeah.


Yeah, interesting.

Thank you for that.

That’s all, that’s it.

That’s all.

Oh well, that was great and informative.

Yeah, and any parting words for Chris, in case, you know, we know he’s not going to listen to it.

But, you know, it’s not, I know you’re not, but if we know he’s married with a, that’s another issue.


Your wife is very lucky.

Yo, that’s a great way to end it and I wish I were your wife.

Maybe they’ll leave that part out.

Okay, I’ll just leave it at your wife, is lucky.

Yeah, and we’re lucky to have had him on.

Yeah, I love.

Well, I hope you have crushes on many more guests.


Well, it’s alright.


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