Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Joel McHale


Welcome to armchair expert.

I’m Dax Shepard.

I’m joined by my friend Monica.


Hello boy.

Oh boy.

Do we have a tall guest today?

I’ll drink a water.

Real tall slurp a water and a muscular slurp at that.

Oh, yeah thick water.


I don’t think people realize when they see Joel McHale on the television set or on a billboard on the side of the road.


Just how easily is you really is.

He’s gigantic, right?

Not just in his height.

He’s very in his heart broad.

He has a big swole.

Art, but he’s very Broad and dance.

He’s quite muscular, and it’s really overwhelming in person and intimidating.


Yet, despite that we were able to have a really lovely conversation, my assume, you know, Joel from the eat, the previous show.

He was on soup, and he was also on community.

He has a new show on Netflix that I just saw.


I was just visiting my mom for six days in a, rather unfortunate, sir.

I’m stances and I plowed through seven episodes of his show Joel McHale show with Joel McHale, which of course, is a great title and goddamn.


Is that show?


Oh, I was putting them back like Doritos or or he’s dipped in milk.


It was it’s really really funny.

It moves out of quite a clip both you and your lovely wife have have been on that show.

We’ve both been on that show impact last Friday, I feel And a little bit that all are.


I’m not even certain when but throughout the years.

We’ve always been social with Joe.

We’ve teamed up on, trying to get someone elected to school board superintendent.

He’s very philanthropic and we get a call from him quite often and he gets a call from us quite often and he’s a very dependable gentleman and I really enjoyed talking to them.


He was so well read.

That was a not that I didn’t expect it.

But just holy smokes as he read a lot, you know, do you think the show also could have been called the Joel?

Yeah, I think I think that if I had named him and pronounced it be called the Joel show, starring Joel McHale.


So, please please enjoy Joel.

McHale my tall, robust muscular, handsome, kind, well-read guest.

He’s an option.

Remember when a man was taking a shit in my house and I in a top, Joel McHale.


Welcome to the armchair expert.

I can’t believe I’m here.

Thank you so much for watching.

Go ahead and have a Nicorette.

I’m gonna pop in several Nicorette, see because I want to match your energy and I know you have spectacular energy.

That’s true.

But that’s from my cocaine tablet.

Oh, you have come.

Yes, they dissolve.


That was, Stevie Ray Vaughan’s thing.

You know that about him know he didn’t snort it.

He put it in his whiskey, drank it and everything was going hunky-dory.

And then all of a sudden his like stomach Rod about yeah, and yeah, that’ll do it.

It seemed like a hack though.

I got cocaine hacks so that your nose would spray.


But I mean guy was a singer right either.

Yeah, and you still are putting cocaine in your body.

So but if there is a safe way to do it than what’s the issue.

I wonder if that because I know that is it.

It true that former cocaine users.

If they were heavy cocaine users typically their house, they have well, yes, they with the dildo with listen.


No, but they have heart problems Coke users.



So so yeah.

So in fact, I have been to a Cardiologist as you know, I’m a no, I didn’t know you.

You don’t know.

I’m an ex Coke addict.

I knew that you were a drinker.

Yeah, but I didn’t your Coke addict.


What on the drinking?

I never met you during that time.

That was before I was on basic cable.

I was.

Well, yeah, I had about a year of having some success, in still being an addict.

So, how’s your heart?

Well, so I went to a Cardiologist and I guess what can happen.


I’m sure there’s more extensive damage that can happen but the circuitry between your brain and your heart can get a little dicey and how’s yours?

Well, I just want to tell everyone what just happened because they won’t know that you just flipped off Rob.

Yeah our producer who’s a very kind person?


Once he’s from Chicago.


Oh, Naperville.

My dad is from Chicago and he said, Naperville was just Farmland.


It’s like a huge Town Metropolis with great high schools.

I don’t understand.

Have you read Devil in the White City?

Yes, isn’t that great.


It is so good.

And I would love to I, I know that there was like, Leonardo, DiCaprio’s going to play him and all that.

Oh my gosh, should really not make it a movie.

You should make it a part series.

You’re so right.

There’s very few books.


That can do two subjects at once that the writer tells two stories that the history of the Chicago World’s Fair in the 1890s or something.


So the the what?

Yes, it’s it was called the White City.

Yeah, there’s still a few remnants of it today and it was the world fair that immediately followed the unveiling of the Eiffel Tower in Paris.


So that the stakes were incredibly high that they had to do something spectacular.

They they didn’t know what to do.

And at the time they had about a year to build it, right?

And they had to deal with Joe Winters where they’re like, I don’t know how to get through the soil here.

Here, Iris.

These are the same guys that figured out how to put tall buildings in downtown Chicago.


Well, to me, that’s the third element of that book, which is so fascinating.

Is that the early architecture of skyscrapers?

Yes, is they were born in Chicago, not.

And everyone thought well, because the ground in Chicago is they was in part because he had to make this huge Foundation to build these huge buildings.


And Chicago did not have Bedrock.

The land took.

Yes, secure it.

So they figured out how to float these buildings.


All the buildings and unstructured literally floating, huh?

But they’re just counterbalance.

Also, just the fact, you know, what, I liked about that book too well, and then they well they will describe the parties.

They would throw win.


This fair was going and the and they would gather.

Well we brought in for elephants and butcher nose and then 90 Moroccan soldiers.

I liked it too just because it gave me a ton of gratitude for the time.

We live in because you don’t realize what it was like to live in a city that he did all the buildings with Cole.


Goal and provided light with oil lamps or gas lamps.

And a whole city was City.

Everyone was coughing.

Everyone had fucking black long.

And then the other thing, you realize too, is that the, the I’ll call him the protagonist, and this book, He’s a murderer.

He lets go with antagonist, but he isn’t he our hero, I guess?


Maybe, no, he was not my hero.

What’s wrong with you?

Let’s take out my Mary.

What did you read?

Do you read the Black Dahlia?

Go like gosh.

That’s guys this guys doing great.

No, he, you know, we learn about him first.

So he just kind of, I don’t know.

Muscle memory told me, he was our hero, but at any rate, he would just show up and assume people’s identity.


He be like, Oh, I’m I’m bear.

I’m their son.

The people who owned the pharmacy.

I’m their son.

Don’t worry about me and there’s no way to prove who you are back then, no.

And then he’s just killing people and then he’s writing letters to their family going.

Hey, move to California and then there’s no way to find out the mood California because you can’t call them.


Yeah, you can’t even write a letter.

It’s got a fucking go through Panama and shit.

I’d be a year before.

Yeah, he would Mary people take their property or kill them and then have their property and sell that and will there be a moved above?

If I remember this correctly?

He moved above a pharmacy.

Just as a renter and then killed both the people on the pharmacy and just assumed ownership of it.



Never like they’re gone.

They’re there in California.

Everyone medical help.



That’s your hero.

He’s my hero.

He’s here.

He’s got a poster behind great book.

They’ll great it real.

And that author, Larson.

Last name is Larson from Seattle Washington.

He’s so irresistible.


Number of great books.

In the fact they can gather that stuff together and put it into a narrative.

I’m just like.

Those are the those people are 150 times smarter than me.

Oh, absolutely.

I read this book called Dark Matter and the dinosaurs which is a science book and I was so bad at science and then I heard the woman interview.


I’m like she might be able to make it major primary.

Yeah, and I read it and well, I can’t read.

I just listened to everything.

Yeah, but she was like all these crazy Concepts like she broke them down for me.

I don’t like only if this was the way I Could have accessed something like science.



Yeah, it’s not unlike our job, which is, it requires a very bizarre combination of things, right?

Yeah, but I’m confused by your job because this house were in is a piece of shit.

Yeah, we what do you do?

All day is and what we’re going to get to my house in the fact that you had to Wade through mud to get up here today.


It looks like their house was attacked.

You guys.

Yeah it definitely yeah.


No, but I think you’re right in that actors do 10.

You would just think oh you need to be good at acting.

Well, that’s not just you have to kind of An entrepreneur and you have to be a self-starter.

There’s no like manual to how to do know it.


And so I’m sure the best actors of all time.

We never ever acted because it required, this other weird skill set which is like self-promotion and showing up absolutely.

Or you don’t say they realize, they’re only two.

I mean, if they’re actors say in the Middle Ages where they just a Mary Mary bands of actors, like, we’d love to put on a morality tale for you.


Do you have some bread and I’m broth for us.

I mean that were relevant.

That’s what they would do these play.

Come on, where they would teach you land, but is that the same as minstrels?

Like, one day a man yells.

But basically, they had to me nor like a court gesture.

Mmm, their job was to Staying Alive each day, like only piss the king off to a certain point.


Well, and then this goes back, even further.

If you want to get into our Evolution, which is, we have this uncanny capacity to remember stories and tell stories because we didn’t have the written word for so long.

And our culture is what makes us successful as an animal, right?


We’ve given up so much of Our brain space so that we can learn, right?

We don’t come out of the womb, we can’t do a goddamn thing.

We got to learn how to do everything.

So we have to have a way to convey all this information.

So we have this crazy capacity for story.

So well, even asking out stories forever, you could also make the argument we are using our whole brain because up until just a few thousand years ago oil not even at that less than we spend.


Most of our day going don’t die.

Oh, yeah.

Stay warm / have shelter.

Avoid the guy with the boils on his face.

Who seems right guys.

So each day was survival.

And I mean the people crossed mountain ranges wearing one blanket and and so every day was a new adventure in living.


Yeah, and we’re in a constant state of homeostasis.

They say our biggest problem is the culture is trying to stay thin.


You are you ever driving.

Did you drive up to Washington ever?

I have many times, right?

But with kids, we haven’t as much.



I’m still doing it.

I’m a glutton for punishment.

Do you say we just drove to Oregon over Christmas, right?

Always when I’m driving through Grants Pass.

I think it is the the tall pass between Oregon and California.

I Think Jesus Christ, man.

Coming through here in a fucking wagon, with no roads.


How can they, how did they do it?

I can barely get through.

You know, I know I got the kids in the car.

If it’s snowing, like, you’re starting to think I’m stupid and irresponsible.

I should have flown up.

Why have I put my family in this situation and we’re in we have air bags.


I mean, what did What would you feel like, it’s your daddy?



Fuck it, man.

I’m gonna go out to California.

You guys are coming with me.

How many times on that trip with your?

Like, I’m the worst human being ever.

Look, when I’m putting my family through, we’re going to die.


Also, I could find some gold out there.



Or yeah, you think about all of our anti well, especially Irish and your Norwegian Norwegian and Irish.


What like a fucking look it to.

Thank you.

You really do.

Also my great-grandfather left.

He was a then finish the Norwegian part of We’re bunch of Norwegians live in.

He left that he went to Ellis Island.

His last name was Smith, your Bakken, of course, and their ways.

Are they waiting and they were like, what’s your last name?


And he’s like Jackson and just think about like, oh not only, I’m leaving where I’m from.

I’m leaving my family.

I have no money.

Oh, and I don’t even want my fucking last name.

It’s over.

I am starting so new.


And what did he do?

He moved to fucking Juneau Alaska, which at that point.

I leave fucking Finland to go to June.

No, Alaska, they had gold and fish, you could start a life.

And that was when the gold, the the companies are running the gold mines there.


They would just kill the sheriff if they got any trouble phone or they had the leverage.

Yeah, and I just never thinking, like my grandfather went to some sort of Frontier shootouts, and, and he was like bad, just go fishing and a journal.

Is there any line?

Oh, that’s a bummer.

When that be great to read.



Fucking journals of the great Juneau.


That’s what everybody’s look on.

An intimate lover at any.

Minor inupiat lover.

Oh, yeah.

No, that’s exactly what I jump, too.

Well, yeah.


He did.

I want to lover invited into an igloo, I guess is what I’m, so there’s no igloos and the jinju not, you know, you don’t like his Juno is, all a much further down is almost it didn’t invite you here for a geography.


Well, okay, just because it’s the one thing you don’t know about you guys, but I am to be that.

Marta’s first Juno was all Juno is way down.

Okay, Midway through British Columbia.

British Columbia is a province of Canada.

We go.

Your mother’s Canadian.

Is this why?


You’re if you fancy yourself a Canadian, if people are largely aware of it, but I just want to make a personal attachment to it.

You’re a beast.

You’re a very imposing physical Beast.

Well, I you did.

I did forget, your one of them is 2 hours in the gym.


Yes, you are.

You are so backstory.

Joel was going to be here at 10:30 and I thought around 10/10.

What’s a gentle way to just remind him?

I don’t want to accuse you of Having forgot, but I thought absolutely.

You should accuse me because this is a conversation.

I have with my wife.

Ah, daily, uh-huh, but I don’t know you well enough to know whether you’re if you’re like the Rock of Gibraltar, if you’re gonna, if I can count on you.


I don’t know that side of you yet.

So I thought I’m just gonna do a gentle.

It doesn’t seem like, I’m saying.

Hey remember, so how did it come off?

Because I think I said, hey, if you get confused, just give me a ring.

It came off.


Like this is a very polite way to remind me.


Missed a day and not next Friday, but I can’t like even on.

We have a scheduled spring break and we booked flights.

We all that.

And then Sarah, my, the loveliest pursue Berg, or do you have no idea how lucky I am?

And she’s so wonderful irresponsible and an adult.


She goes.

Hey, genius.

It says you’re going to San Antonio in the middle of our spring break and I was like, let me get into that.

Let me Get into it.

This is a constant.

Do you overcome it?


Oh, yeah.

It’s an actual problem that I need counseling on.

It’s like, I’m constantly being electrocuted and I can’t open my hand.

Do you, what do you think that stems from is?

Is it codependency?

Or is it like a just an eternal optimism that everything will work out?

I think the competitiveness and aggressiveness of the business that we’ve chosen when you first are young here.


And I arrived here, when I was 29, which now I look back and I that Like 14 to me, you feel like you were playing catch-up because you would have waved a love absolute later and I didn’t people?

Yes, and I didn’t know the rules.

There aren’t any rules, you go into it and when it starts working, you’re like, right?


You just got to keep going.

And you, you fill up the whole thing.

We work your ass off and and then yeah, and then last in the last two years community and the soup and Grading doors were all canceled.

I mean, Community kind of reached its end and We ended the streaming service of Yahoo screen it.


We went six seasons, but at they I basically didn’t, you know, have a job.

So I was like, well, let’s go hit the stand-up routine, you know, and I started looking stand up and, and my wife was like, yeah, he’s off.

Yeah, you got a 9 and a 13 year old and I’m like, right.

Right, right.

If I, let’s go throw the football, right?



Let’s go back and get some shoes and which is not healthy and because of the end of your life, you’re like, yeah, you really entertain those folks in.

Edmonton that one time but you could have but yeah, you weren’t there for your kids.


Yell soccer game.

Yeah, but I’ll be there from playing football tomorrow.

So one of them is so it’s going to be great.

Oh, that’s a juicy topic.

Its flag football.

Okay, there’s no head on head.

Yeah, but I had seven concussions in the skull.

Well, I am not an idiot riding a motorcycle right back, but do you shutting the fuck up?




We’re going to fight motorcycles.

Do you?

I think about this a lot lately.

I think I’m 40.


What are you 45?

\46. 46 Monica is 13.

And Rob is 22 July.

Yeah, correct, but I think early in my career.


I was so hungry because unlike you, I didn’t come here early, but I had 10 years of auditioning.

Never got a fucking thing.

So when I had an opportunity look like, jump through that plate glass window, you got it.

I’ll do it.

And then I was, you know, but that’s not the most appealing personality type to maintain anything, for a long time.


So I, yeah, I’ve had to really kind of think about that a lot.

So we Probably do the thing where like I’ll figure it out later, you know, but right now, I’m jump through this place.



Well again, what was super helpful is to marry Kristen who has a completely opposite, right?

The train of thought on all topics and she’s been good at gently pointing out like, you know, these fight stories.


You tell it’s not people’s favorite part of, you know, like, oh, really?

That’s interesting because where I’m from a Michigan, these are good.

Good stories.



He’s like, no, people don’t want to feel like they’re around someone who might just get physical with other people.

It’s not not a comforting.

Thought isn’t as much in my mind.


I’m thinking this would be so comforting for everyone to know that I will.

I will confront the guy if he comes through the door.

That’s that’s the opposite reaction.

I want to ask really quick because you said you listen to books and I to listen to books.

And do you feel guilty when you admit that you actually listen to that book, as opposed to read it?


Oh, people will shame Me by going, you didn’t read that book, you listen to it and then and And I will say I’m four inches taller than you.

What are you going to do about it?

That’s nice.

That’s a good retort.


Um, no I so I’ll be like, it’s worked out.

Do you want to head to the tennis court, but I now like for a while with like when I started the soup back in 2004, I was so anxious because I’m can’t really read.


And all I had to do and I had to read teleprompter.

Well, so right.

We’re both dyslexic.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, I repeat.

Good grades, I would yeah, they were, they literally diagnosed me with slow starter.

So, my my sons are also dyslexic.

One has been diagnosed and, and the doctor goes and she’s driving all the symptoms.


And I was like, that’s my, that’s what I have.

And she goes.

Oh, I was wondering which one it was because it’s passed down.

And, and then I said I was they told me I was a slow starter and she just does that even mean those lows?

I don’t know, Sufism.

She put her head down.

Someone just called some kids stupid.


Yeah, it’s what it is.

A euphemism for stupid.

Slow starter.

Yeah, and my dad would always because my dad clearly has dyslexia, he would never really admitted for a long time, but he would always say like not bad for white trash from Chicago ride.

Dad also worked as ass off and did well and so and I was like, yeah it does.


He jumbled a ton of words?

Does he like mispronounce people’s names and stuff?

No, but he can’t remember names just like I can’t.


I can’t I mean Betsy and you’ve done a great job.

The Evalia if it’s just two people, I’m fine.

Like I did a stand-up show on Columbus last weekend and I have a cousin who lives there and I texted my mom.


I was like, do you know if you know which show Mary’s coming to?

And she goes Jane, your cousin, the last 46 years.


She’s going to the first show on because my mom was a newspaper editor and my dad was very smart to marry somebody who could edit everything you handle all the yeah.


Yeah, the reading and writing.

It’s, I mean, I you winded and wouldn’t came on where you like.

Thank you, Jesus.

Well, I Weirdly, you know, what’s interesting is, is I did not learn to read the fifth grade, but then I did develop a super passion for reading around like my senior year in high school.


And then I just read super slow, but I did learn.

I loved reading.

I really got into books on tape because of my insomnia.

So I started listening to these McCullough books, these dense historical books that are so mind-numbing with detail.

They would put me to sleep.

So now that was about three years ago.


So now I’ve listened to like 100 books because that’s what puts me to sleep.

So you found out you were dyslexic because of your son.


Well, it was a everyone knew you thought you were a slow starter until you years.

I was just like, right and I kind of took that philosophy.


My whole thing was because I cheated all through high school and college, but you did.

And I was always like I’m just going to figure out how to get good grades without having to work because I don’t I can’t read it.

I can’t read the material, but I’m just going to cheat and I’ll figure it out.


Were you good at math?

I was very good at geometry.


I aced all that, huh?

And strangely.

The only science class I ever did well in was physics because it’s all spatial stuff right in visual so I can go right this make and so I loved physics and geometry.


I tanked algebra, but I always figured the my whole thing approach to education was, how do I figure out the system?

And then once I figured that out, then I could be like, oh right, this, I’m going to get better grades than I should begin.

I would imagine though.

Do you have a crazy memory for auditory stuff like that?


As you heard, right?

You can hear a story and it’s fucking so yeah.

In college.

I took as much history as I could, because I love the history and there was a number of lecturers where I could just listen to the lecture, huh?

I would get it and then I knew, I could just write it down in a test.

But when I would get these, there were, like, here’s a teen books for you to read and be like, I’m not going to read any of these.


This, I remember classes, where they would present the books and I would just drop the class.

Oh, you would.

Yeah, but these other guys would go.

You just strangely, though.

Like, I had to do research.

Where would they would be?

Like you cannot use textbooks?

You can only use old newspapers and I had an okay to I think those are so many pictures and visual stuff that I can read new sold newspapers very quickly, but what’s cool is growing up.


We think like, oh we’re fucked right?

Everything is clearly reason people.

Tell us, what should I tell ya?

In the grades would suggest that were fucked early on, but you don’t realize you aren’t, you are developing this superpower, which is this memory for things you’ve heard?

Which then as someone who improves a lot and is off.


The cuff.

Like, this is your greatest weapon.

Is that you have this crazy database, right?

Of little Clips in your head, that you can draw pretty fucking quickly.


It’s scary.

When you meet someone like, I don’t know, like, I’m just when I get like this.

Friend of mine is named Drew Hanson.


And he’s in the state legislature and watch and Rhodes scholar Harvard.

He’s he can read anything at any the fastest you’ve ever seen and he’s got the insane memory and I’m like, oh really Drew you need to run for president.

Yeah, because you don’t leave.


When they read a book in my experience, they did.


You just don’t retain nearly as much as probably when you read a book or when I read a book because yeah, we were going so fucking slow.

Yeah, maybe when he just having someone read it to me is.

Yeah, I love it.

Yeah, it’s the I whenever I exercise or drive.

I don’t listen to music nearly as much as I used to because it’s what I’m reading.


All the books that I should have read.

I would like all I’ve reading all the Dostoevsky and I was like, oh, this is the stuff.

I’m never around.

Did you read Crime and Punishment?


Oh A fucking book.

The the way he can relay what people think is unparalleled.

Stay tuned for more armchair expert.


If you dare.

I read The Gambler and that is at errantly an anti-semite which is that envoys.

Got it.

You’re going to have to overlook that Henry Ford as well, you know, but we got the car out of the guy.


So Monica is like people do.

That’s a big big topic.

That would be worth talking about, but let’s let’s do it.

Here’s my here’s my thought.

And now there’s a lot of movements that basically the ribs.

The end result of these movements is people are gone.


They’re kind of just put out to Siberia, right?


And what’s interesting is I don’t think we ever calculate.

What cost are we going to pay now for this?

So we’re going to punish this person who might have a ton to contribute to society, Henry Ford, right?


The guy is It’s despicable.

He was an anti-semite.

He was a supporter of Hitler.

This is all bad bad, bad, bad bad, but his his net result on society is still so positive.



So but but we live now in a culture where if Picasso was among us and we found out Picasso had done something dodgy.


We would just get rid of Picasso.

He would be banished, right?

He would never be allowed to create anything and then we then would be denied all all that.

So it’s just an interesting.

I don’t know.

I mean you could make the argument that so in Michael Jackson’s case.

Yeah, obviously talk about him to court for possible.


Most eight.

He was cleared.

And I think obviously big fans are like, he was ruled innocent and but you could also not in civil cases though.

No, and yeah, and you that whole thing about being, I being able to identify marks on his penis.


That’s that’s seems like a What do you call it?

I’m gonna court case.

I mean that feels like open-and-shut.

Yeah, you can describe, you know, and so you go.

Yeah, but his music still gets played obviously as it again as it should because I don’t know.


I don’t know why the world should be punished because he had this terrible aspect to his personality.

Why should we all be denied?

This amazing music that spreads joy and makes everyone dance and is happy.

It’s just it doesn’t know when I listen to him like boy.

You can’t enjoy Michael just hard because me, too.


I mean, yeah, I mean that was such a public case, but then you know you read about John Lennon and Julian Lennon.

His older son has said he would never have kids because he never would ever want them to have the same upbringing that he had.


And I was like, oh, that is a mindful ended that lower your enjoyment of well, it does when people go like isn’t he the greatest and I was like, it’s not the greatest father, the least of that first round was no good.


Right, but but that That’s my issue.

Is that for, I guess what?

I’m what at least a how I feel like people people are saying is, unless someone is entirely perfect across the board.

Then I’m great.

Great thing is null and void, and that’s just it’s just Martin Luther King, Martin Luther King had orgies that were recorded by the FBI.


Had those come out in that day.

He probably would have been silenced.

Would we have denied ourselves, the Civil Rights, this that happened, the all these tapes were made public a few years ago.

You know, so you got, you could fucking John F Kennedy.

He had sex with a virgin in the White House pool.


That would probably be like white house has a pool.

That’s that was my biggest shocker to she was making the rounds on, like she did a 60 Minutes thing.

She had been waiting for Jackie O to die to tell her story, but she basically was a virgin and got hit on by him and some staffer and they went into the pool and they had sex in the pool.


And you know, that’s a dodgy situation.

Yeah, that sounds really dumb.

Yes, it does.

But all things aren’t equal here.

I think the level of pain and Injustice is different.

But let me just ask you if there is a man that has the cure for cancer in his basement laboratory and he hates everyone and he uses the n-word at breakfast.


Are we going to punish ourselves?

Because he has that side of himself.

It says to me it’s like the opposite of the utilitarian philosophy where it’s like who’s that?

You could, you can have to fucking tolerate some shit?

It if you want the upside of some of these people.

It’s true but cancer which saves people’s lives.



Different than looking at paintings.

I don’t, I don’t think so.

I don’t think you can say that the value that Picasso added to world history or that Michael Jackson’s added is not commensurate with some scientific breakthroughs it jolt.


I think it’s, but it’s you.

It’s the same thing.

It’s the same sort of theme of somebody who contributes something great to society.

Who’s despicable in a big way?

Yeah, Kitt.

The point is.

Can we handle that?

Are we big enough to acknowledge?


Yeah, that guy’s a fucking scumbag, but I gotta say no one plays a violin like him and that’s worth having in school.

So kids can learn by.


I mean, I do think now that sort of behavior is hard to hide.

Yeah, obviously Ford was open about it.

But now, it’s way harder to keep like Behavior like JFK’s because of I think of having so many never thank God women reporting in news that stuff.


All changed.

So now it’s going to be different.


Look, I’ve floated this opinion out loud at parties and people are quick to say like, okay.

Well, what if it’s your daughter, who’s blank, you know, and I go yeah.

Well that is terrible.

But there’s got to be another solution other than guy with cure for cancer.


You’re in Siberia.

How about he’s not allowed around women or whatever any number of practical pragmatic?

Lucian’s to this stuff where we still allow the one good thing about the person to be nurtured or supported.

You know, I don’t know, Jesus.

It’s, I Think It’s Tricky.


Well, it does give the weird thing.

You’re like, yes.

He’s like, oh, but Society has benefited from this core thing or has it.

You can call me that the ozone or in the yeah, we’re slowly baking ourselves.

But yeah, I would, but I think you’d be hard-pressed to go through history and everyone we hold up if they had lived in the air.


Era of Twitter and whatever else?

I, yeah, I don’t think we’d have many people on Mount Rushmore, you know, and then so what would we be left with?

Yeah, like our moral superiority that we punished everyone who wasn’t Perfect, Right.


It’s so weird.


It’s a, once you get into the weeds of it.

It’s very difficult.

I want to ask you if being labeled a slow starter.

What impact do you think that has had on your, you know, full adult life?

No, I decided not to pursue pop music.

I’m not.

Like, I always thought I’m going to show him.


I fought it and and I thought I know how to get around.

And then so I always was figuring out ways to get around stuff.

I mean, I knew I was good at sports that I knew, I loved acting and Performing so I really do have into that.

And I may school always became secondary and I knew that I was I could tell jokes in class and that always did well, but but, but again, what’s the chicken?


And what?

It’s the egg because the egg were walking, all isn’t high like.

So I developed I think at least a sharp sense of humor on in response to being the fucking dum-dum, who is BL I don’t have classroom.

So do you think like either a load of lead the days the spelling bee would come up like I’m not gonna be able to spell any of these words and then, you know, then I’d make a then it would be fun to make a joke out of it.



I could make people laugh and they would still think I was a dumb kid.

But yeah, but I always I always excelled.

In sports, so I knew I had advantages there.

Yeah, it is nice to be crushing in at least one Department that really gave me like, con fall your self-esteem.


Yeah, but I really was, I didn’t ultimately care.

I, it was that stupid.

Was that thing where?

I mean?

I probably missed out on some good education, but I was saying was like, oh, well, if I can’t do it, I don’t want it.

You know, like I’m stupid.

It’s dumb.

Yeah, and I did see a lot of and I went to college.


I definitely should have not gone to college, and you went to a you w Yeah, it’s a hard school to get into, right?

But my grades were pretty good.

My aunt’s are Great.

Outdoors were a disaster.

So what I did begin, I think it took me a long time.


Was there was a like this year, the go to acting classes and stuff like that.

And like, this is how you do it.

And I realized I was like, oh, I can only use 20 to 30% of this information.

I only I have to take stuff that I can use and throw everything else because it’s not useful to me, right?

So when I began to kind of think for myself and go, oh here’s how I do.


I can accomplish this to my certain level of accomplishment that I can do whether it’s like telling jokes or something.

That really kind of helped.

Oh, I don’t know, my goal.

Like, I know my skill set here and that’s what I think I can do, but I think that athlete part is really key.



Great source of a, you fit in with a bunch of guys on teams.

Yes, assuming and you learn what you’re good at, right?

Your your, yeah, you’re excelling, you’re better at something than other people like I think those that’s a great well, to have.


Yeah, you know, if you’re like when you do well, it helps.


Do you have at all?

I have this is a terrible side of me is, I’m fucking know-it-all in response to thinking everyone thinks I’m a dumbass.

Do you have that?

Um, first of all, knowing you a bit, not too much, but I’ve never gotten that feeling.


I never got the the oh, there’s the insecure guy that has to prove that he’s smart.

Oh good.

I’ve never I all I thought was dead.

This is one of those kind of cowboy Rogue smart, guy, other sort of Freakonomics type of alternative.


Can I use that for my bio?

Do you masher that?

You go like?

Yeah, he’s got like, he’s a motorcycle expert.

He can race cars.

He’s clearly Smart in ways which typically, smart people or typically seen smart people would run screaming and crying from.

So that I’ve never felt you try to pry, but I’m sure there was all in my twenties.


I think.

I was young, I was off for a bowl.

It was so important to me that you understood.

I was not a dumb dumb.

That’s and it really.

I think I was real tough to be around.

I think people would agree.

When did you feel like you became easier to be around?


Well, I think well getting sober helped and I also think being around Kristin helped a lot and I think just generally getting some fucking self-esteem along the way you’d have liked growing.

I mean, clearly our you were good athlete, you’ll know.

I was held.

Different like, obviously the motorbikes or well, right.


So that’s a fact that you’re not dead or completely mangled is amazing.


I do have a theory that won’t when I will die, and then I’ll get to heaven and I’ll go, oh, finally happened.

And they’ll go.

Oh, that’s so cute.

You think this is the first time you died.

You died there in, 1989 you’d like what if they could be a fun reveal that?


Like, we died a bunch of times and then they finally like whatever who cares what I do.

Isn’t totally not like going into if you believe you’ve actually died before.

I don’t believe, I’m going to have it.

There is a heaven, but I just play a fun game where I get to heaven and I go, oh, that’s pretty good.

I made it to 72.


I was expecting to die at 62 and they go.

Oh, no.

No, you did died at 62 and you died at 46.

And then you know that motorcycle accident.

You died.

People don’t live from that you thought you lived and you’re like, so you feel like it’s they just keep you around to you learn some lesson in this story.

An angel grabs, the motorcycle with you on it and goes, whoa, buddy, boy, let’s just know, like, you know, like know, they’ll show you that.


Oh, you were dead like your Dad is kind of what God and they just woke you up.


I know like know you survived this crazy car accident.

I look forward to your book whenever we’re talking about like you know, what, we hope our daughters will leave the house like whatever.

If we could start one skill.


I know you have to do not gorgeous Gladiator, Viking Sons.

Well, they’re really good looking and and I think they’d kill each other right?

If you let them.



I know that which is, I think is going to serve them well, in life.


My brothers and I we killed each other.

Uh, yeah, same here.


But if I had to pick just a single thing that they left the house with forget, whatever, whatever kind of self-motivation, we could bestowed to them.

I would want them to exercise.

A literally, if they did nothing else.

They could be my with horrible awful people.

They can be terrible in school.


Like it’d be all these things.

Poured anti-semites.

Yeah, but just as long as they hit they hit burning crosses in the front yard, I know.

But if they, if they left the house and they exercise three times a week, I would I would be most happy about that, and I’ll tell you why.


Wow, because this is all relates to you.

Don’t worry.

So you’d be like Lincoln.

I’m sorry about the six divorces you’ve had and but I know she’ll be happy because I do think exercise is a huge source of happiness, because, and again, I’ve nothing to support this Theory.


I do think for the bulk of time, humans lived here.

We spent a lot as you were talking about.

We spend a big portion of our day, being Physically Active Gathering food, or actively hunting and you were rewarded for or that work with serotonin and now we’re all sedentary or and we are we have jobs where we don’t do anything physical.


Yeah, and that’s why you have Pandemic depression in this country.

I feel like also in England.

Several years back.

They stopped treating people with mild depression with Pharmaceuticals and they started the NHS or whatever.

That National Health System is called run around.


They will pay for them to go to a gym three days a week because they’ve found that that has better results in treating mild, depression.

Then pharmaceutical.

So yeah, you have this gift.

You work out non-stop, right?

I’m working on right now.

I am just flexing down below and but you are.


I’m doing Kegel exercises that great.

You have the most powerful kegels in the business.

They say it was so well known for but you have this, you might have you ever recognize that?

This is a gift.

You have that like you were into Athletics and then you for whatever reason you’ve kept that going.

Do you acknowledge that?

That might be a big building block of your own self-esteem, in your own happiness?


Oh, yeah, definitely.

And it It’s I do find it rather.

I mean cell, there’s a selfish part of it, obviously, because you want to look good.

And you want to not were vainly.


And you like maybe you could go to a soup kitchen and help out downtown.

Some time.

I got to hit the gym for 40 minutes to measure this salmon out before I.


Yeah, how do I look great?

And so it’s very kind of narcissistic in that way, but I, but the other side of it is keep moving because most American People our age nine, your guys age, but then 2013, 22.


You guys are getting high school credit.


Is that our parent?

I’m not our parents, but the our parents before by the time they were our age.

I mean they were it was there was enough cigarettes and and yeah, whiskey and not moving around for the most part they were like that was it and ya know I the in as you said that endorphin rush the all that stuff is I feel like if I don’t exercise that.


Yeah, because clearly you’ve had periods where you’re working too much and you can’t write, if you had long layoffs of working out and get well, then cut to me in my trailer doing push-ups going.

I need to do, 200 push-ups.


You have a very regimented diet and well if that’s the vanity part it.

So that Jimmy Kimmel starvation diet.


Oh, you’re on that one day a week.

You found.

No, I do three to four you fast. 32 Ford’s today.

I haven’t eaten.

Oh, no, and I won’t eat too late.

Oh my God.

How does this not fuck up your metabolism.

If you like this, has to lie have more starvation mode.

I have more energy on non-eating days than I do on eating days.


That’s no Testament to what your metabolism is doing is so I feel like it’s your a hummingbird.

No human beings did not constantly feed themselves.

Well, that’s very true.

And we now live in a society where we have access to food all day and all night, and that just was not the case.


And, you know, I feel bad for us.

I watch these nature shows with the girls, and You see what a fucking bear will do to get a seal.


I mean, it’ll kill itself to get a seal and you know, o, we have that same hardwiring.

So I’m very sympathetic to like, we’re nearly defenseless against that, you know, if you see what we’ll do to get a piece of meat, of course, we’re fucked.


Yeah, like what is the diet?

Can you break down the day?

It’s not really that difficult.

I mean, it’s not, I mean, I can break it down, its fellows, don’t days, I do three to four usually, three a week where I David dinner and then I don’t Until dinner the next day, really?


And then when the dinner the dinners, what it’s responsible as well, the thing you never can, how are you keeping on this much muscle mass?

Because you’re very guys, the physique is off the fucking charts.

The Jazz literally at the gym.

I literally zipped over from the gym.

The jest is bulging, the biceps are vascular and Powerful.


Do you take like supplements, just know the mass on now.

No, I would just invite him in some Propecia.

We are virtually the slant.

I mean, yeah.

You’re more imposing physically, but it’s not true.

But when this Lexia in the yeah, we could be from the same tribe of cheating.


I only cheated in Spanish on really.

I caught it.

I could not pass Spanish and you had to have it to get into UCLA and I just had the fucking cheat that was.

I had tried it and failed three times and I was like, okay, I got a print up a little tiny piece of paper and bring it to the test and I did.

Oh, yeah, the scratch paper was the best way to G.


And I actually, as you could write all the answers out.

I didn’t feel guilty at all.

Either I left going like Did what absolutely needed to be done?

Yeah, I mean it is it’s essentially wrong.

But yeah, in my numbers, I did as we already talked about, I was like this.


This is the I can’t do this.

So I hate it.

Yeah, so I was like, so it doesn’t matter what I do to get by.


This is why I should have just gone straight to, you know, I Conservatory for acting or something or guns or anything else.

Now, you did play college football, right?


Is that not?

Yes, but not.

You’re welcome.

Yeah, soul even know what that really means.

Means there are some teams have a.

You can just join a team and they’re like, okay, put these pads on.

We’ll see how you do it practice.

Okay, and guys, some guys would be there.

This is the Rudy story.


Basically, basically, yes, but some guys would, you would we need?

You could see him they’d show up and they’d be and then one practice and they believe that would be okay.

And I stayed for two years, but you were like, good-looking, six-foot-four, Rudy.

I think you, what were you called when you were when you are in college?


What were your Dimensions, what did you way?

You are tight end, tight end and I was, I remember getting on the scale naked and I was 245.

God, there was real and I had six percent body.

Oh my God.

Were you doing steroids or anything?



Oh, no.

You were no know if you with another way right now to 16 to 18 around, 2:45 of muscle that were those with a died, reading six or seven Stakes for breakfast.

I was eating non-stop, you are and because you were Practicing twice a day and you were lifting weights.


And on top of doing school and all that stuff.

I’m so intimidated.

And I was bad.

I mean I was uh, cookies and stuff.

Oh, we ain’t.


I ate it was, it was, you’re all so young enough that you almost, you can eat anything when you go to Sizzler.

No, come on, I would, unless I would like to I’ve got a Denny’s there.


Wasn’t a Sizzler and near my school, you the voice of Denny’s.

I would like to be okay and Sizzler.

No, but there was guy but the to Eyes ahead of me.

There was also other guys I, so I was like, I was the funny guy on the sidelines.

Okay, that’s good role to have the yeah, i–‘cause, I held its kit night.



I mean, they had the respect of the players gave me after skit night.


I was like, oh, all right.

When did you meet Sarah?

Wait, after college?

No, I met her once when I was a freshman in college, and she was a senior.

Oh, I was walking home from football practice.


And we had a mutual friend arrived at Five scrunched over because I had just pounded ran into enormous men, two and a half hours and Sarah’s first shoes at Kim O’Neill.

Who was a mutual friend of a woman.


I went to high school with and a close friend of Sarah’s is just happened.

They do and she introduced us.

But she’s like, who’s that guy?

Who looks like he’s injured and slumped over and who the worst posture.

Who’s that old Young’s ever seen?

And and then I didn’t really meet her until 3:00.


Later, but, but prior to meeting her, when you’re on the football, team in your big stud and you’re funny.

Do you have an appetite for ladies and that in those first couple years of college?

Not really, really?

I wasn’t that guy.

You weren’t explained that I just like, I so I was in a fraternity for three or four horrible months.


I met one guy really liked, but I was not the, I just like, I’d say, it’s these parties would happen at the.

I would always, like, I gotta get out of I hear it was just disgusted with that, the scene and I was like, pretty, this is, I know that some people love it and good, I guess good fat, but it just was, I was always be like I’m gonna and I just spent a lot of time in church.


So oh, you did.

Yeah, I grew up Catholic or some group Catholic, but I came a presbyterian.

And to this day.

I still am.

You converted yourself in college from Catholic in high school.


My parents were thrilled.

Was that something weird Act?



It is.

Yeah, there was a lot I no longer eating this Sacrament guys.


I’m now I see it.

Symbolically and it is no longer be weird.

Did you have a good friend who introduced you to their church?

And you’re like, hey, check out my church camp.

And then it bit you because you do recognize, most kids are, just trying to avoid Church.


All together there.


No, I certainly not another Glacier still to this day, when it’s Sunday morning.

I’m like church, I don’t you go, then I go.

But in then like a couple friends would take me to like a mega church, which I I hate it.


People like see week and and I was like, nope, not doing that.


I loved the ritual of this is too fun.

I don’t want anything to do with.


I was like roof, it should be suffering.

Like these people are standing and jumping up and down, their arms are in the air.

I hate it all that.

Okay, I was.

And so, how did you find your own church though?

It was like the Presbyterian Church was like, kind of a happy medium.


Okay, but did somebody introduced you to it?

Or we just kind of do it calling knowledge.

There was there was one across the street and you just walked in because it was close.

Was close.

There was a lot of, I knew a lot of people that it was, you know, like that campus.

It was a quite a, quite a mixture of folks.


They were, I knew they were going there and and you are just bored with the Catholic church that you are.

You know, I disagree.

I mean, I really think they do need to have women.


Yeah, that just should be a thing.


I always disagreed with that.

And but I always liked the ritual.


It’s an ancient ritual.

Yeah, but but but but My brother is an Episcopalian priest and so he is so he basically you go right up to almost being a Catholic but then you can marry and have children.


That’s healthy.

Yes, absolutely.

And so my wife, she went to that Presbyterian church, so that’s kind of That’s So I was like, oh well, we’ll do that.

And when you are shopping for a girl, was it important that she was also religious?


Yeah, probably.

Yes, definitely.

Because, you know, that’s that’s yeah, it’s helping to have that common because you’re gonna raise kids together.

And obviously you’re going to want to raise them.

Yeah that belief and yeah.

Yeah, and I still got you which people when I tell them they’re like what but you say fuck and and I go I’m a little shocked by it.


I want to say but I but I like it.

I like look dude, I go to AA which is not where I was hoping to go and I was growing.

So fuck it.

I can’t be very judgmental of any group that people join Church to in a way.

Yeah, well, it’s your power, but we like to say it’s not the winners Club.


So now it’s not where all the winners congregate.

Oh, it’s like, we were like I did it.


Let’s join this group.

It’s pretty well.

You’re at the lowest point.

Yeah, but it is the winners in that, you made the decision.

It ends up being a winners Club.

You’re not.

I was walking.


I was walking with my nine-year-old to Starbucks from school Starbucks.

And it’s this guy who was talking to himself and limping along.

He walked past.

And it said on it.

He had clearly gotten a, I don’t work out, but just had world-class junkie on this coat has a nice.


Pretty great.

I want to know that guy, but but I was like, that’s not the guy that when I should probably stop doing this, right?

Who knows maybe like 20 years sober.

Maybe the other version of him is actually even worse.


I’m about you does show that when human beings can like yourself can get off that it shows an incredible level of evolution and intelligent.


Well to me, it becomes my dealers.


Sam, Harris has podcast by chance know.

I’ve never, that’s all I talk about it.

It’s a great, it’s awesome.

But he kind of, he’s a neurologist and he is a proponent of this no self-will Theory, right?

He doesn’t believe people really have ultimately self-will because you have so much biochemistry, that’s making so many decisions, really for you and a bunch of other things.


All that to say my kind of proof against that is is my personal is like, oh, yeah, I’m definitely bioengineered to be an alcoholic.

I’m like, you know, ninth generation.

Everyone in my family ends up getting sober.

I was molested that almost guarantees.

You’re going to be an addict.


All those things would definitely guarantee that it was going to happen.

But despite all that you can kind of redirect.

If you could happy answer for that.

I don’t know.

I gotta I gotta get in front of him.

God have been asked that question before, I’ve yet to hear it raised but it’s what I always think when I’m listening to his like, yes, you certainly are predisposed to all kinds of, you know, a suite of behavior, but people are regularly breaking out of that.


I feel like, oh, yeah, but You’re letting everyone is heard.

No, but like a kamikaze pilot is doing some yetis.

No way your bio engineered to crash of fucking are right Mitsubishi and do we do all sorts of stuff that is counter to what?


Yes to our helplessness guys that want to smartest guys in the world.

He would have tons answers for us, but I don’t know.

He would say something they’ve been preconditioned and brainwashed to a point where you just also means they’re born into a circumstance.

Like we don’t choose some of these initial A place where we really get a Kamikaze.


Blue might be a great example of other isn’t for you.

But why the fuck would someone choose to do that?

If some of you have to volunteer you had to be no one was ever chosen to do.

They had to volunteer.

Yeah, but if you could say the pressure to volunteer, but then you could say widen, every pilot in the Japanese Air Force do that.



And then he’d say, oh because the their testosterone levels were such that they would have never made that decision.

Thus proving that, you know, had the guy been born with less testosterone, that would have been as Destinies.

I didn’t really have a dad is whatever.

What I really I want to know, though from you, is that you because you go to church this last year and your dislikes.


I love Jesus and you came out here late.

I want to know about the lows.

So you had, you had Community, right?

Yeah, when you’re on community in the soup, you must have been your self-esteem is through the roof, right?

You’re like I’m so gainfully employed.

I’m not terrified anymore.


No, I was house.


I was very, you know, like okay it’s working and also I was spoiled on, especially well, I had done.

Three Pilots that I’ll never win anywhere.

Okay, before that.

And so, but I always, I didn’t know the difference between the I was like, well you do a pilot, you hope it gets picked up and then it usually doesn’t.



And and then one did it.

But then on with the soup because as you know, you audition for a thousand different things, thousands of things and your you, I just counted it as like, well, here’s another Edition I’m going to do today.


And yeah, I’ll do that.

And there’s that and then when it got on the air I did I’d never did a pilot at a five-minute pilot presentation and they went great.

All right, we’ll try this out and it was no launched.

There was no nothing so that I it was a very ultimately, a very good way to get on TV where they’re alone.


We’re going to put it on Friday night for four weeks and we will see.

And so, and at that point I was like, oh, it’s oniy, it’s not on a Friday night.

The world’s not tuning into the second first episode of the second season.

Lost right?

And so, it was, but can you bring up a great point?


I think there’s a, there’s a perception from the outside of Hollywood, that, that we’re actually choosing where we’re going to end up and that’s just an illusion.

Like, I literally was in a final callback to replace the Blue’s, Clues guy, at the same time.

I was getting punked, like, it was gonna go either.

I was either going to be on Punk’d or Blue’s, Clues, you know, it whoever would write a check and you want to take a plea.





I would have you’re taking penniless for 10 years.

I would have.

Yeah, I would have blown.



To get on Blue’s Clues.

So I just want to point that out there.

Like yeah, I hope I think like why why why did you do this super wide?

You do community, but you know, why did I Dupont what?

You did whatever.


Dude you’re doing, whatever the fuck.

They throw your way.


Yes, when you find something.

That’s when Community comes up.

And I read that script and was one of the first pilot scripts like this one’s really good.


I know I can do this.

This is the one I’m going after I went and did a network test and they were like, you didn’t get it.


Oh, really?

Yeah, and then Joe Russo and Anthony Russo and Dan.

Brett is like, you mind if you all Executives leave and we’re going to put them on camera and then you can watch that.

Ah, and I sat around for another four hours.

So how nice of them aren’t you?



Oh my gosh.

I’m going over to Joe’s house tonight.


Yeah, cause sometimes people take that time.

It changes your fucking lie.

Yes, Rye literally changed my life.

Yeah, but to, I think, people think because like, well, you, you’re married to a movie star.

You’re a movie star.

You have a house that you can, you would like to eat demolish, right?


It was like, I showed Showed up with.

We showed up.

I thank my wife had a job and that’s why we could get up an apartment.


I had no money and I worked at Larchmont wine and cheese when I got here.

So, uh, which I love going into love that place sandwiches, really good was before known for their sandwiches.


Right are known for their scent.

There we go out sandwich, but you really, you’re a part of that rich history.

There are no, yes, there are people that come along in your life that that are cheerleaders and that that help.

Yes, it’s hard to accept help, isn’t it?

Because you’re I’m I’m starting embarrassed.


Like, I can only imagine if in your situation they’re like, hey, you didn’t get it.

That’s a terrible place that now needs.

Yes to do some more acting, right?

I rarely have ever read a role and they’re like, you got it.

We that we stood to this day ever.


Yeah, but that, that never.

It was because Joe and Anthony Russo.

And Dan, I knew they wanted.

They were like you.

We would like you.

We I want you to for this and we’re going to fight it, we’re going.

Yeah, itís hard as we can.

That’s so great.

And I’m like, same thing with Gillian Jacobs.

When she came in, we all and she read.


We went.

That’s, it’s her.

That’s, that’s the character.

It’s perfect.

It’s so good.

And, and the studio, and the network was sending also, they were like, no.


He’s not the, we don’t re and then they were sending all these other people, and we’re like, it’s her, it’s her, it’s her, it’s her, it’s her, and she didn’t get the role until we were doing a, the table.


Read the first table read, which was kind of mean, and that Very mean and then at the table read like oh by the way, you got it and she just burst out crying.

Oh my God.

That was.

What do you think?

Poor girl?

Yeah, and if you seen love if you watched love.

No, but if it’s any consolation, right?


And I haven’t watched love glow or Atlanta.


I was the only thing watch anything.

So I when I had the flu I got through the first two seasons I because Maya, my friend said, I’m gonna stop being your friend unless you watch the first two seasons of Fargo.

Oh my God, how isn’t it?


Fucking awesome.

It’s Magical.

It is.

I start I was so I was like a when I watch this episode that means there’s only gonna be this many.


I mean I’m the addict in me is in a panic from the first episode.

So I’m like, it’s so good.

I can never get enough of this.


What am I going to do?

Every season?

Oh, it’s incredible.

I made the mistake of watching the third season while I was editing chips and I just was watching the show and I thought well, so, they were basically given probably the same amount of money.

I was given for this film to do ten episodes and Every episode is ten times as good as any movie.


I’ve seen in the last 10 years.

Like, this is just an embarrassment to the film industry this show because the the set designs Flawless.

It’s shot beautifully.

Everything is so meticulous that part of it, the music is perfect.

And she’s singing to her kid in that one little scene in the second season.


That’s the song that Holly Hunter was singing in raising raised Arizona.

And but I mean, that guy is Noah Hawley.

Is that his name?

Yeah, but you could also like remember Berg was interviewed and years ago and he’s like, I still haven’t done a movie as good as the Godfather.


Yeah, like, wow, good.

It’s good to know.




The gets everybody, still it?

Everywhere can take a shit on themselves.


So did you have?

Because I had, I had a big chip on my shoulder about coming off of punk.

I had this fear that everyone thought.

Oh, he just a reality act or whatever the fuck I thought, right?


And right.

Did you have a hell?

I was being off of the soup when you start a community.

I never thought I would go into.



I had never planned on it and I had never done it and then you need to read a teleprompter and I had to read a teleprompter, but for the audition, I just memorized all the words.


Oh, so it didn’t matter that.

It was even rolling.

Yeah, and how did you get comfortable with the prompter?

Are you now comfortable with it?

Do you, do they know how to do it for you?

Like where they minimize the words or they make?

Oh, I there was not.


It took me four hours to get through 20 minutes of jokes.

Okay, when the soup first started.

Uh-huh, and it was, I would ruin almost every set up and if the punch line went really well and people were laughing, I would get anxiety because I’m gonna mess up set up.


Yeah, and I would be very gingerly talking through the setup.

You could see are things.

I can producer KP Anderson going.

Like he was like a dad trying like seeing watching you ride a bicycle.



Okay you dare you go and I’d so there’s always anxiety tied to it.


And then the thing that helped me more than anything was starting to do the shows live.

So they were like it’s live and you had to do it right?

And not screwing you can, you will screw it up which I did a lot.

But then I was like, I’m going to head long into this and I’m going to say I have dyslexia.


I’m doing the show live.

I don’t know how it’s gonna go.

That kind of dissipated it a bit.


And then when I Did now I’m bragging, the White House Correspondents Dinner.


Never have, I been, by the way, what?

A scary job to yes, on.

I’m, I don’t want anyone who can do that, and that’s terrifying.



I was terrified.

Remember when you did it.

I was like, fucking good on you, mate.

I think that’s, that’s a big swing.

I were, I worked very hard and I think I was at that one weirdly.

You might have been, I don’t know, I didn’t.

But I’m only gone once, but I feel like I, it was you.


Yeah, if we see my brother that way in parallel, So why don’t I have been everything?

Why don’t I call this?

I really do not think you’ll hop on one of mine and you go.

Oh my God.

I just know how to do this.

And then I hurt myself when you get to do those in did right now, use it been hurt.



Oh, well.

Yeah, hehe on a dirt bike.

Excursion, when she had no business being on, I saw it when I did his shows like you fucking.

What are you doing?

You did that show?

You didn’t know Ryan yet, right?


And you’re like, whoa, who knows what that fucking shows on?

It’s on YouTube Red.

Yeah, Ryan.

I read this always so funny that I was like, oh, this is great.


So that’s awesome.

I think I think when I heard that you had done that show not knowing him.

I just made me like you even more the fact that you would have taken the time to read it and go.

Oh this you know what this deserves someone to support this.

I didn’t think about support.

I thought if the scripts good I’m going to do it.

That’s a great an edict to have.



I was like, it’s funny.

This will be funny.

You played rhyme and yes.

Yes, that’s why I lost the role of his own show.

So this is how funny this episode was.

So he’s playing a factor, that’s playing a cop.

That is investigating crimes on television.


That’s the name of the show, and they decided because of low ratings, even though they pointed out, it was on the internet that is on YouTube, that ratings, didn’t really matter that he was fired and I was hired as him, but it is a realities, right?

But in his contract, he had to us here in every scene.


Yeah, so he they haven’t cast him as an extra in everything.

The Ryan Hands in there in his own show and then In one scene.

We’re at a party and he’s dressed in his party down outfit, which was unenthused.


I can’t believe this, there’s a, he was like in Metal on Metal.


And people are like, hey, that’s really funny bit.

You’re doing how you’re dressed as your old characters.

Like they just gave me this bow tie.

It was.


So anyways, did you have a hang-up about the soup?

That’s what I’m curious about.

Oh, so the hang-up was at the time were like, hey, this is working.


He would you like, you know, we’d like you to do red carpets.

And I’m like, I’m not doing any of that, right?

Yeah, because you keep your keep trying to feel A lot, like, what’s the point that I can’t now return to being an actor?


That’s the fear.

Yeah, and if you’re on a red carpet, now that you’re getting even closer to probably never, I’m interviewing the people that I would like to do acting cozy.


Yeah, wouldn’t do that.

I’d and they wanted to make that show Daily.

At one point.

I was like, we’re not making it daily because then that’s that’s, that’s it.

Yeah, they’ll never act again, right?

So I resisted that.

My thing was like, I need to not, do I want to do things that are not seen as hosting, right?


So, I can do both when you were doing press though.

I would imagine for the first season of Community.

You’re getting a ton of soup questions.


And is that triggering you at all?

Because that’s where I would, I would really be at my worst is like know, I was okay because I knew that that’s what was working.



Who knows if this if this show was going to work.

Yeah, and so I try and that he would always be like, well, he’s going on another talk show to talk about Community.

I’m like don’t worry and every time is like, soups going to come up a thousand.

That’s right, and and it did.


And but so.

So I didn’t annoy me, but it was, it was more like, yep.

That’s totally love it.

That’s the thing.

I do, but this new thing I’m doing.

Yeah, wait till you see it.

Yeah, but it was funny like, even with soup and Community viewers, they pretty they were kind of separate, right?


Keeps the soup was women between like 20 and 40 and this community for a long time.

And then it changed was like men, 14 to 30.

Yes opposite.

Yeah, I was like we’re and then and then Community became much more universally, kind of watched by, not the world, but but by men and women but I think people would be shocked and even the few people we’ve talked to you on here.


I think people would be shocked about how fluid you have to be with your identity with your what, what path you think you’re on how open you have to be.

If you want to find yourself employed in any capacity.

There have been long periods of times where I’m not getting offered any acting.


Jobs, and I go.

Oh, okay.

This is I gotta pick up my writing game.

So I’ll just write a ton.


Yeah, and then that maybe will yield something then I’ll end up acting again for a while, or old, you know, so I think I think it’s good that, you know, people realize you didn’t sit down and map out this crazy trajectory know which is ultimately landed with you owning a home which is all really we’re all trying to do.



Is yeah provide a place for our children to sleep.


And not wake up.

Black bolting awake at night, going.

Like what am I gonna do?

What am I gonna do?

Yes, Miss still do that.


Like when I mean the last year I’ve been unemployed.

And so yeah, and what was that’s what I want to know about is how during that period, which is fucking terrifying.


And you have a family and Sarah no longer works to she sells her art, which does okay?

Okay, so I didn’t mean to in any way, diminish Sarah’s compliment.

So in that period of a year where you have to be terrified or unless you’re not human, what?

You don’t eat three days a week.


So maybe you’re not.


What are you telling yourself to comfort yourself?

How do you navigate that?

Here I go.

Well, I know how it can bring in an income is through stand up, right?

So it’s like this is what I’ll do on weekend, right?

When you go do stand-up on the weekends.

Are you doing a couple shows in a city?


I do four shows in the city.

It’s funny to see which cities like, oh the city’s not selling.

You shouldn’t go there and then others like it’s been sold out for a month.

That’s crazy.

It’s very strange.

Yeah, and also, you’re getting kind of a real-time evaluation of your yes, you’ll regionally.

Absolutely, which is got to be a roller coaster.



Well, the like, even being gone from the soup.

The soup ended two years ago and this new show came on and people go.

Oh, he’s copying Daniel Tosh.0 and I was like, wow, that’s the length of memory the half-life of a yeah you go.


They don’t even they don’t know anybody or doing 12 years of it on eat.

No one eat.

Didn’t even didn’t even cross their minds as so.


So it’s, that was crazy because as you saw with some, with some audiences, it fades away, uh-huh.


It’s scary, right?

But then As soon as this new show got announced, uh-huh.

Like their went.

Yeah, he’s been sold at Dallas has sold out.

Okay, Columbus sold out and I was like, oh well, then what’s hap?

How does it’s it’s so stupid and wonderful.

Yeah, but it’s when it rains it?



Yeah, and when it’s yeah when it’s not so so in your to answer your question.

Yes, a lot of insecurities of, what am I going to do next?

Yeah, and will I be able to provide and do I or do I my moving back to Seattle?


Yeah, and does that does that manifest itself in that?

You’re like rough to be around for Sarah?

Is there?

I think it?

It’s rough in the me leaving all the time.

Mirai leaving on Friday morning and returning Sunday morning.

Yeah, and that’s a Longley being on the road doing, stand-up you as lonely, not know.


I mean, you’re married and have kids.

I’m married now, president.

Well, I get on a plane and I sleep for the, you know, however, and then I get to the hotel and then I take another nap, and then I’m gonna, and then I go and then I Right back on the plane back.

So that’s, it’s not like a road comic, who’s like, I got shows from Wednesday to Sunday.


Yeah, that’s and you’re spending all day in some City.

You don’t know.

I love being in these cities.

I don’t know because I can spend one day kind of looking around and around.

And I’d like in Dallas two weeks.

It was like there’s where Kennedy was shot.

I’ve never seen that Texas Book Exchange that one.

What is it?


The Book Depository, The Book Depository and then they have the pool where he had sex with a virgin.

So, yeah, so that’s a whole museum 2 that he may well.

Had sex with a virgin in Texas, but that’s not the one I never yet seen, but it’s like, even with this show, we’ve done three.


We have tell me the name of your new show.

The Joel McHale show with Joel McHale.

Oh, that’s great.

Let’s get that name in there twice.

That’s what I want to close out on his.

I had a terrible head injury wakeboarding where I had amnesia for about 18 hours.

And I now regularly obsess about the fact that I’m going to have CTE or whatever.


It’s called.

You played football.


Are you terrified?

No, because I already had seven concussions in a skull fracture before I played.

All right, so yeah, so it’s almost certain that you’re going into.



Have to do you think about it?

And is there anything you can do to get screened or there’s nothing you can do.

I don’t think right.


Brain condition.


I don’t, they can’t die.

I don’t think that can.

Can they die.

They must not be able to because all these NFL players who committed suicide, they donate their brains to, that know, my, it scares my wife.


Because I won’t remember anything but I said this is how I’ve always been, but then I realize all those injuries happen but football was different.

I never actually got a concussion playing football, which is miraculous.

But every day after football, I would feel slightly drunk.

You would you do?


I’d feel slightly like buzzed and I was like, oh, right.

That’s what happens.

Oh boy, and we’re the seven previous can cull.

A lot of me going.

Watch this.

That that all we would also have had my beer, but oh, yeah, drink jumping down, flights of stairs, but the the skull fracture.


I lost, I didn’t.

Yeah, I didn’t get amnesia, but I lost my short-term memory.

You did.

So I could not remember one thing to the next.


So so I had that I was on a loop.

I was on a five-minute.



I’m not.

And did you do you have a memory of realizing in that state?

Oh God, you know I’m saying, no, I remember going.


Something’s hot.

It was remember going because I remember going There was just these, it’s just photographs of the rest of the day.

Okay, after this key at because I didn’t, I have no recollection accident.


I have no recollection, cause I collided with somewhat.

This is what I’m told by Dave Johnson went to high school with, can we trust Dave?




Dave was Dave was a very nice guy.

He saved my life basically because then you realize when like, a soldier gets blown up and they just wander into the battlefield and get shot because they don’t know where they are.

Yeah, unless somebody goes like hate Phil, get down, and that was He was my fill and he, I remember, so, I, this accident happened.



He told me later on, he goes, you stood up, and he stood up the other guy and he said, are you okay?

And he and I said, yes, and I go.

Are you okay?

And he said, yes, and we all skied on.

Oh, boy.

And then I remember the day being gray and cloudy and it was bright and sunny.


Okay, later on.

And then David said, I start talking really weird on it and we’re sitting on fucking chair lift.

He’s like, yeah, we’re going down and then they Ashes of me.

I was like, why I remember going.


Is there a Coke in my hand?


And yeah, and this is fucking, it’s getting even weirder.


Can I just say crazy?

Because mine was wakeboard.

What did you hit wakeboarding?

Ice is a board.

I still did the Des.


I don’t know.

I’m on my buddy Dean’s boat, and he’s got a buddy with him that I just met that day.

So I don’t know the other body, right?

So Dean is driving the boat.

I crash.

It’s a bad crash.

I get into the boat and they go, are you?



And I go?

Yeah, I just feel like I got punched in the face.

Pretty hard.

And then, I I am there now, Dean gets into the wheelbarrow real memory of the actual know, the actual impact.

But but so Dean’s, buddy, who I just met that day, starts, driving the boat.


Now Dean’s, you know, on a 40 foot rope behind the boat.

So I all sudden kind of come to on a lake and I know I live in LA and I’m looking at a stranger driving, a ski boat.

And I’m yelling at this guy where the fuck am I?

And he’s like, what am I?

How am I on a lake?

Who are you?


And so, he realizes.

Okay, there’s trouble.

He stops the boat Dean gets in.

I do.

Nice Dean.

They take me to my mother.

We’re driving to the hospital and I say why am I Michigan?

Oh, you’re home for my birthday.


Why can’t I remember that?

You hit your head wakeboarding and I go.



So it’s like that episode of Gilligan’s Island where you get, hit in head with a coconut and I just need to get hit in the head with a coconut again.

No laughing.

I go.

That was pretty funny to say, considering my head hurts if I already said that.

And my mom goes, yeah, honey.

You’ve said that about 30 times the same job.


Ah, and in that moment, I realized oh my God, my brain is broken and I start bawling and I go just left him with it.

The women because I was with my girlfriend, and my mom, wow, and then, I’m crying.


I’m bawling.

And then I go, why am I Michigan make the same coconut joke again?

Burst out crying again.

No, I only cried the one time.

Once my brain unspoiled.

I start.

I remembered everything that is happening.

You are embarrassed that you wussed out like that house.

What were your million like that?


No, I’m fact.

My parents did the opposite, which is they thought it was hysterical that I couldn’t remember anything.

My parents were laughing.

They really are because I walked into the can I borrow your turtleneck?

That you’d be like, no.

Ask me again.

Okay, if you believe this guy can walk right back around laughing.


Can you imagine if one of you boys is on a loop that my parents took me to a dinner party that night.

And I am not kidding you.

I am so serious.

I believe it was They were, we’re going to move to Minnesota and my parents decided not to and all the neighbors were going to throw a surprise party.

My mom and dad, and it was that they were just going to go to someone’s house, but they didn’t realize the whole neighborhood had gathered and then and my parents.


Like we can’t go, Joel’s fucked up his head.

He can’t remember anything.

It’s hilarious.

And they’re like, well, then they were like, okay look, it was a surprise party.

We’re happy, you’re staying.

Can you just bring them?

And they did?

Okay, and I went downstairs and played with this guy named Andy, Rooney, good, and we played g.i.


Joe for like four hours apparently, and I’m Like a fifteen-year-old this point and Danny this little kid.

Basically he can recognize he was just like what’s going on with Joel.

He’s repeating.

It was like in here comes Cobra Kai again, and then I came out of it.


How long did it take you to come out of the room?

The loop that I probably hit my head at noon and I was at the hospital.

I had a CAT scan and then things started becoming I was starting to remember that day and we left the hospital was like 1:30 in the morning.

Okay, so I guess it was, it was about 13 hours, I don’t know.


Is alone, skiing.

Oh, I would have just skied off into Oblivion.

I would be good.


He’s in the Cascade Mountains.

Just a fucking Frozen somewhere.

I mean, it would have been.

That’s the thing.

That was like if Dave Johnson was I was like that was one of those critical moments of my life, where Dave saved my life.


Can I ask a question before we wrap up?

Because it’s for both of you because Henry Ford stuff.


Racism where we’re at?

On a Henry Ford.


No because you guys both had this dyslexia.

Which would be considered probably a defect in some way.


And then you both grew up to have these amazing lives and all these awesome things happen.

Would you?

And you look the way you look great.

This is going to love this book.

So, you know, there’s this crisper.

Have you heard of crisper?

It’s like well done at a gene editing machine edit.


Oh, I thought you meant the stuff they put on lettuce.

That’s getting.

Oh, yeah.


No, here’s the thing.

Where you said dyslexia is a defect which is they is not That there was a reason why people were dyslexic way back.

When is that?

So the this Perfect Analogy that this psychiatrist did.


So bees, they’re all set up differently when they’re born and there’s the worker bees.

There’s the queen and then there’s the bees that fly and go look for pollen.

And when you when those be a those bees come back and do that little dance and those bees go like that, be found all this stuff.


We’re going to that tree.

We’re going to that bush.

We’re going to the Rhododendron and we’re getting all the Palm where come back the hive will be will continue to live.

If you Drip, the drought like ADHD drugs.

On those.

Those bees that fly back, they stop leaving the nest.


And so that sort of scattered part of our brain that goes well, ADHD or this, where we can’t seemed, we can’t get it right.

There was a reason for it, and they think there’s a, they think part ADHD was probably like there was we needed Scouts to go out and see, you know, those you would they’re not sitting Camp, any long know, And then tell these stories because if you were told oh for the rest of your life, you’re going to sit at a desk and you’re going to do this one job.


You would be like going to end my life because that’s not something I could ever imagine doing or prison.

So it’s either, it’s either this life or prison, right?

People in our situation, probably.


Well, in there is a great chapter did Yuri in those Malcolm Gladwell book.


There’s a chapter on dyslexics.

It was long known that people who were dyslexic had like a two times as likely to end up in prison, but was Known until recently, is that you’re also two times likely to be a CEO of a company, right?

That was the part that they didn’t know, right?

So, that’s where I was going.

If you could choose for your kids to have it, would you?


Yes, I, when we had girls, I weirdly found myself going.

I think I’d want one of them to be dyslexic weirdly, huh, you know, or I’m left-handed which is an impairment of some variety as well as left handed.

Get the fuck out of here.

Oh universes are not so happening, but I throw right me too.


I throw right hand.

I kick right handed.

I kick right and I throw right, but I eat left-handed and right-handed left-handed, and if I try to eat right hand and I will stab myself in the eye.

That’s a brush teeth left.



Me too.

If I was like, oh, if all my abilities were in one arm, then I could have played in the NFL.



I was like, I just, by the way, if we were in the market for a wife swap, I can’t imagine a better pairing for you.

And I well, both bringing a ton to the table and I’m worried about the pinworms.

Oh, yeah.

She told that story on your That’s what you because you were like, no, you’re cute.


When you can tell a fucking pinworm story and public.

Yeah, people still love you.

I mean, if that, if she, if there was ever a test of her appeal she has admired worm.

Yeah, she inspired the audience including the president of Netflix who was like, I had pinworms.

Oh, Jesus.


He was so happy.


You were a loser if you didn’t have.

But worms.

That’s basically what it was people like, oh, I bet it’s fun to ditch their.

Yeah, well, but the, in the back story really quick if she was on your show, and she was very honest about the family, getting pinworms, right?

The the girls got it.

School and then Kelly’s based on this the commercial we showed that a guy goes.


He sees a pretty girl and he sits down at a bench and he immediately jumps up and then it says got roids.

Oh, okay.

But yeah, but when she would she probably left out of that story is that she goes, you know, so the girls have pinworm, you know, it’s that’s why they’ve been itching there but a lot lately, you know, does your assets and I’m like, yes, I was born like how fuck why notify him.


It’s an anus, isn’t it?

Just it?

It’s all that the natural state of man and his ass to be itchy.

Yes, it’s foul.

It’s, you know, I always like to end on talking about itching are assholes and I don’t explore off.

I only had jock itch and that was no fun.


Yeah, that thank I don’t know what I was like, that’s one of those things like.

Thank God, I live today because all it took was a couple of other applications of ointment.

Yeah, a little road, tremendous, some kind of an antifungal, and your, or to this day, I’d probably It’d be like yeah it all just shriveled away because of jiayu at a torn a hole and I had strep throat 3 and far back in November and I was like what happened to people who had strep throat.


They’re like, oh they all they died.

A horrible horrible death variety infection went throughout them and their their throat just in see disintegrated on them and it was a terrible death.

Yeah, but now take this little pack of pills.

New be fine tomorrow.


You don’t have to skip the gym.

It’s yeah, I didn’t.


Well Joe.

I hope off.

I hope often.

Are you and I will dedicate an To going out to lunch and figure out even what, what more we have in common because I feel like we’ve just scratched the surface today.

So even the left, when you still look the same we like the same.

I mean your we’ve had more attractive but that’s not true.


Are your Beast then left-handed dyslexic, major concussion.

Yep, we both end up wheel of history is starting on.

I guess you could say a reality program and accepted as an actor.

I bought a perfectly good house and completely ruined it.

We both have 4K TVs.


You’d both like cars.


We, but yep.

Yeah, we love cars.

We love driving.

I’m not as bold as you to be able to drive motorcycles because your, you don’t have a Death Wish.

Well, we’re not going to die of old age.

No, no.

No, you’re gonna drop him off of Mulholland.


Oh, yeah.

Yeah riding a wheelie screaming with a Rebel Yell.

Oh, yeah, and I’m going to thank at the age of 60.

I’m real.

I can swim across that River.


That’s yeah, that’s gonna fucking do that.

Watch this.

Goodbye, I have a similar thing to that’s the problem that the loudest voice in my head is the one screaming.


You’re a fucking coward.

Yeah, that voice.

I have the, I bet you can’t do that.

Oh, you can’t do that.

You fucking little coward.

It’s wrong with you.

Yeah, you know, he’s your brother older.

I have two brothers, one older, one younger, the other ones, an electrician and and reminded you of your cowardliness.


Well, he spends the day, trying not to blow himself up.

Oh my God, so he’s sure a badass when we had.

But when we remodel the house and we reconnected the power, the guy, and the there was two guys on the pole and the guy had the live wire and he dropped off the guy’s shoulder.


Oh, and he is, there was unexplained, you know, there was a rock and he was burned and he was terribly electrocuted.

Oh my, he lived.

But I was like that they found that you were liable for that.

Oh, I had them both killed before they left all the sack.

But but that’s what my brother installs using.



Power him like a Juggle chainsaws.

Yeah, I got how did it go today?

And he’s like I didn’t die.

I made it through the day.

So I’m happy and you’re like, oh they made me take two episodes of my show in a row and be like usually we crank them out in our 40 men.

Like I’m re.

Yeah, and I’m not eating that trough of scrambled eggs.


I will order them separately.

Thank you, my life.

All right for real though.

I love you.

Thank you for always being General.

Thank you.

And please watch the Joel McHale show with.

Oh, yeah.

I’m assuring Kristen and do.

They are those those come out weekly, right?

That’s not a, that’s not a seasoned.


Um, People like their normal.

Well, it, yes.

That stop every day, or every, what day?

What day 12:05 on.

Sunday morning for real?

Yeah, to which I said now, why exactly?

And they went you just shit so you don’t need to know how the sausage is made.

It just just sell the sauce.

You know, what we’re doing, it’s Netflix.


Yeah, and they take nine billion.

They have an algorithm that they realized.

Look at 27% more viewers of it comes out at 12:05 is the yeah before.

And they’re right.

They figured it out.

God bless them.

That’s why they pick the show up from 45 episode, please watch 90 days.

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