Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Erika Christensen


Hello, welcome to the armchair expert.

This is Dax Shepard your host.

I’m joined with Monica your co-host.


And before we get into this episode, which is with my ever beautiful town to TV sister Erika Christensen.

I guess it’s a disclaimer.


I’ll say this is something I’ve been wanting to bring up for a while and it’s just kind of a context.

I’m hoping people will think of this podcast in end.

The thing that I liked a lot about majoring in anthropology was this kind?

Of mindset, they forced you to adopt so that you could understand other cultures.


And at the time it was called cultural relativism.

I don’t even know if it’s popular anymore.

If that’s even what they’re teaching.

But the point of cultural relativism was to not, go into learning about something with the goal of judging that thing.

Because if your goal is to judge it as moral or immoral or good or evil, it really gets in the way of you understanding that thing and a very tempting thing I quick I am.


Often quick to say, whether I think someone’s an asshole or there are there a saint but when you want to study things your your knee-jerk reaction is this is this is evil.

That’s the explanation.

That’s all we need to know about it.

But as you learn more about the culture and the environment they’re living in, you may ultimately come to the conclusion.


That this is a very bad practice or whatever.

But by not jumping to that yet.

It allows you to learn about why when how things happened and my Goal in this podcast is to do that to understand why something is the way it is.


And from that person’s point of view and the interest is in more of the the pursuit of causality and not and not a conclusion.

So that is my disclaimer to say that we’re going to talk a lot about scientology in this episode and I applaud Erica for being so honest about it.


And you might be at home saying, you should be trying to prove to her, why that’s wrong.

And I just want to do.

Say to you.

That that’s just not my interest.

My interest is to find out what it does in her life and why she’s drawn to it.

And I think she did a very good job of letting us in on that.


And no one’s trying to convince you.

That’s right.

No one here is trying to convert you to anything, not even a, as much as I talk about it.

Oh, one more thing before we get into Erica this week.

We’re going to have a bonus episode.

Something new were starting called experts on Expert, where we’ll talk to people who actually know what they’re there.


Talking about and this week we’re going to have a really exciting person who’s a childhood psychologist.

A clinical psychologist who knows quite a bit about child-rearing which then extends to adult life as well.

It’s not just for people who have children.


I found it endlessly.


Yeah, I gotta say it was my, my very favorite hour and a half.

We’ve had, in fact, it was so intellectually stimulating.

She’s so smart and well-spoken and fun.

So I really hope everyone on Thursday.

We’ll check out X It’s on Expert.


He’s an object.

Hey, Robbie recording Erika Christensen.

Long time, sister.

Welcome to the armchair expert.


Thank you so much.

I’m really excited that you’re here.

You are, highly requested.

That’s you are.


That makes me.

Feel nice.

Yeah, but we’ve known each other for a long time prior to Parenthood.


It was probably Ten years before Parenthood or something is that?



I feel like you’re much better at dates than I am.

But I’m not with you were in traffic in 2000.

Okay, let’s have a little Benchmark.

Okay, so I was 18 years ago.


So how old were you 17?

Okay, and I met you.

Well, I met you after swimfan and swim and is 2002’s.


Is the correct 2002, at least whatever.

Yeah, 2000.

Basically at some point.

I’m going to need to make these dates work where you were an adult when?

I met you.

It was important.

Okay, I can’t say that.

I thought you were hot and that’s all.



You were probably 19.

Yeah, and we met because you hung out, with all the 70 show kids.

Yeah, it was completely my social world, right?

It was a lot of people social World.



It was such a hub.

I mean, it’s crazy on a Friday night on shoot night.

It was like 50 of There are kids that we would just come hang out.

Yeah, 100 audience, members and 200 guests.

Yeah, those guys didn’t even watch the show.


We’re just going into all the dressing room.

Yes, and I was late to that because I shot Punk with Kutcher.

Yeah, and then he invited me but that was like your six or seven.

So you were already well established in that.

That group God.

I guess so.

Because I think we shot traffic between season one and two of 70s, maybe that early and you are involved with those guys that you Well, you knew Danny for a long long time, right?


Yeah, but I mean tangential socially, I’d like, but then it was Topher traffic.

Oh, right.

Yeah, Atlas, that was your gateway.

Yeah, and so I guess I don’t know.

I must have just invited me.

Like come hang out on a shoot and I and then it was like welcome to this world here here have some friends.


Welcome to this world of 20 year, old millionaires who all owned homes in our applauded everything.

It’s a pretty wild thing to witness.

I mean less.

Over you probably having grown up in a lie, but for me, for sure, I was like these all these young people have Escalades and Corvettes and shit, and it just seemed like the high school had won the lottery or something.


Yeah, and then whenever I go visit like there’d be, especially a well, MERS there would be a different car every time in wilmers parking spot and I’m like, this is amazing.

This guy’s like 22 and just living like a lottery winner.

Yeah, and they all have the, but they were all very very friendly.


Yeah, nice nice welcoming inclusive.



And so, on point at work, which is great.

That, that like the show didn’t suffer.

Everybody was still funny.

Everybody is still just there when it came time for their scene, even though they’re out like playing craps.


Yes and drinking.

Probably probably.


No, I mean, I feel like I saw some like drinking I think some do yeah during the shoot or I have word.

Hmm four hours.

Yes, definitely, heavily afterwards.

I feel like maybe a couple of loop Lube up cocktails, just to loosen up before you take stage.


Totally probably.

Like, I saw that, but maybe I imagined it upon another unique thing about them is it was Strife for jealousy, which I did not witness because you had like, say Ashton at that time.

Had a number one opening movie with just married or whatever and then Topher been in traffic and people are doing different things.


But no one seemingly getting jealous of one another.

They’re all very supportive and loving.

Yeah, that’s pretty unique.

Yeah, it was Was, it was very cool to win as they were very supportive of each other.

And, and let’s just for a half a second for people who have not met Wilmer Valderrama in real life.


I don’t think people have any sense of what he’s like in real life of any like of actors.

I know and on-screen and off-screen.


In real life Wilmer.

Could we say, he’s like, tops five, sexiest human beings to ever live.

Do you think that would be fair?



He’s so charismatic and person right here.

Literally, I feel like the first time that I met him.

He grabbed me and said, let’s run away to her and I was like, what is this and party?

You were saying a fuck?



When do we leave?



What do I need to bring?

Do you do need to wait?

And then not only is his personality that like very outgoing, very funny, very Smiley Charming, but to see this man dance Monica.


I know you think Bruno Mars.

The Sun rises and sets on his dancing and it is exceptionally high.

That it’s an exceptional dancing.

But Wilmer is a better dancer.

Yeah, let me tell you why he and his sister remind me of the sisters named Marilyn Marilyn and he grew up his kids.


Dancing Tango together.

Is that with Dance Theatre in Venezuela?

Yeah, I wouldn’t say it would be Tango.

It must have been salsa.

Yeah, my whiteness is going to really show through here, but suffice to say, I’d never seen this variety of Dance.

In and it was as electric is anything I’ve ever witnessed in.


Every time, we would all go out to any kind of nightclub or whatever.

Those two would invariably do some of these routines.

They knew his kids and it was like, whatever Dancing with the Stars is times for those two because they had been dancing together as infants and build 2013 yeses.


And also, when you say every time we would go out, that was very frequent.

Yes, every Friday night was followed by certainly every Friday night.

Night, and then there was the whole just Pantera Sarah’s week, who was a club promoter?


Who kind of knew every night to be at every club, right?


I was never tight with her but you are very tight with her, right?

Well, yeah, I mean, I don’t know, she, she has certainly much closer friendships.

But like we had a love and I certainly respected, basically what her business was like.


Yeah, she built a social structure.


I was like, well, if you want to see your Friends on Monday night, then you better go to Joseph’s because that’s where they are.


Right, right, you know, and I never got to do.

I never got to like dive headfirst into that because I was also living with my girlfriend and I could only go out maybe twice a week when she was working nights at the restaurant.


So I couldn’t do like Monday Joseph’s or Tuesday.

You would come and I would have been dead.

Yeah weekend back to wilmers sex appeal it all circles.


I can I’m going to resist the urge to compare it to something food oriented because again, that’s that’s to dicey but white-hot flame of sexual appeal from this guy.


Yeah, it’s um, some people really own it.

Yeah, like and he just owns it.

He used sex appeal like he knew he knew that you don’t you don’t pump the brakes on this.

You just let it flow.


No, I’d find myself even as a male talking to him.

Just kind of Mixed up and confused and lost and what was happening because he has super Charming accent and everything and he’s talking very smooth.

I can’t say enough about him and then let’s just get right to this.


Then so one night at wilmers house.

I took a nude swim, correct, right.

And we were just, you just, yeah, shockingly just me.

Lots of people were swimming.

One person was heading dipping.


I had not brought a suit swimsuit.

Shoot in my defense.

I, I was drinking you and I have the, we share.

Most of the people I know professionally.

I’ve never really drank around.

That’s true.

Yeah, that’s true.

It’s so interesting.

It’s so satisfying.


I have actually that with a few other people that I basically knew like, when they were kids, you know, and when they were wild and then to see kind of the growth and the wisdom, and all of that accumulate and and all kinds of whatever it is that gets them.


To be passionate about life in a new way.

Yeah to see that.

Adulthood is so cool.

And for you you were so immersed in this younger acting Community.

You must have also seen tons of fatalities.

I mean, whether literally or just you’ve witnessed some stuff right where people were they self-sabotage door.


They just took themselves out.


Yeah, whether literally or not, certainly thankfully nobody’s jumping into my mind right now, right?

Right, right, but it’s funny too because I I think that there was probably a level of Ignorance.


I had about what was going on, just like, you were saying, like, you were part of the drinking likely if there was drinking going on or is just that thing of like when you’re pregnant, you see pregnant people everywhere.


It’s so you were aware of things on a level that I just not being a drinker.


Yes never was.

Uh-huh, and I didn’t drink until I mean like I had a half of a drink here and there or something like that, but I didn’t have more than one drink in a night.

Until my 21st birthday.

And then I was kind of bummed about it because it affected my balance and I wanted to be Dancing.



Well, I’m gonna go through a laundry list of what I think are unique eclectic character, traits of Erika Christensen because you are definitely in my top ten, most unique friends.

Just as a person that came out of the womb.

This way.

I’m presuming but that right there you didn’t drink, right?


Everyone drank and you didn’t drink and I was intermittently.

But that because I was often trying to quit drinking or maybe quitting for three months.

So then when I would notice someone else wasn’t drinking, I was uniquely drawn to that.

Yeah, and I would be saying, do you like why aren’t you drinking this?


If it was impossible to and you just, I could tell you as Eero attachment to it one way or another.

You’re just like, oh, I just don’t.


What do you mean?

What does that mean?

It’s so funny because it is it just wasn’t part of the equation.


Like it just didn’t calculate, do you think that’s from parenting?

Like, had you been kind of born like, hey, stay in control of yourself.

Don’t do that.

Well, it’s part of definitely parenting.


Part of that the warning this but like, tempered with no set, like rules and potential punishments.


And that kind of thing, like nothing to rebel against essentially.

Oh, uh, huh.

And so when I remember, I think the first drink I ever had was, I went to a frat party with a friend when I was 16, very dangerous.

And yeah, and was looking around, like, oh, okay.


I’m not relating to much of any of this.

But okay, I can have a beer and so, like, had half a beer and was like, not taken with.

It was like cool, got a little buzz from a half a beer and then went home and told my mom mom.

I went to this party and had half a beer and she was like, oh I was like, okay cool.


Okay, so is is Neutral.

Yeah, she had already given me a bunch of her viewpoint about essentially retaining your Lucidity and, and not for safety reasons, but just the value of that, the pure value of Lucidity.


And that, that’s I think what hit home to me and what struck me in what I took pride in and and and what I still do, you know?

And you know, what’s so interesting is that that is also the same, I believe.

Well, Only motive, for why you get fucked up.


Is I find Lucidity oppressive sometimes, you know, like, my mind is very, very busy, and I need a fucking break from it.


So, like that that over Clarity, maybe that, I think I have on certain things, or the obsessive mind that that Lucidity is cumbersome for me.


Sometimes I totally understand that and I know other, I’ve talked to other people who have said the same thing.

Like I got it.

I got there’s an off button, like, please.

Yeah, but I want the punch-out card.



My wall.

Yeah, give me eight hours here.

Yeah, take a nap.


Do you still get your eight hours?

I’m doing better.

I have a magic bed right now.

That tracks my sleep.

Yeah, when I wake up in the morning, I look at this app and it tells me like, when I got out of bed, how long I was Restless?

Want my heart rate was my oxygen level as with everything else.


I look, I just basically wake up my look at Kristen how good her sleep was compared to mine.

And that’s really all it’s about him.

Like you got twice as good as sleep with me last night in the same amount of Of time, uh-huh.

Yeah, cause she goes that that head hit the pillow and sayonara Sucka.

She’s gone.

Oh my God, that’s brilliant cold.


You’ve already asleep.




No, I definitely should try drinking.

Oh, it’s a great relief, you know, I never thought of that may be great.

If the end result of this whole thing was that, I talked you into becoming an alcoholic, such a peer pressure.


I am Monica hates us about me.

She thinks I’m a bad.

Peer pressure, which I am because Monica is very enlightened.

Very smart did great in college, just an overachiever across the board.

And I said to her, you’re going to die.

Not knowing.

When having taken mushrooms is like, doesn’t that bother you?


Don’t, you want to have that experience before you leave the planet?

I could care less?

No, see I’m with you.


I also I mean I can justify things in all kinds of different ways.

But basically like, as a Scientologist.

Yeah, and I definitely cannot speak for every Ontology, just about anything, right?


Because everybody has their own beliefs and comes at it from even other religions and all kinds of stuff.

However, I don’t believe this is the first time I have lived on this planet.

Mmm, and I basically think, I’ve probably done absolutely everything before.




Yeah, you don’t have that panic.

I have or it’s like I got to stand on top of the Sears Tower.

I got a fucking dig a hole that brings water, whatever.

Ticking clock is ticking gasps.

I always feel like the climate that can be very useful.

Yeah, that’s not like I don’t need to win an Academy Award this go-around.


I might do it a three times already.

Because I want to because you and I have had many great conversations over the years about it because we work together for six years and I like talking about that kind of stuff and you are very open about it.


I love that you’re curious about deeper things.

Like, what do people actually believe not just like, yes, what are you driving?

And I think it’d be useful for me to give because I can take either side of the argument.

It which I’m a fan of doing.


If I’m talking to people who are super critical of Scientology.

These are the things I’ll point out you’re going to definitely correct me, but I’m just going to go against the common perception of some things.

Okay, but let’s just say I’m talking with somebody and he goes that person says, oh they make they believe in aliens.


Okay, and then they say, oh, and they got to pay all this money to be in the religion.

Mmm, and then I point out.

Okay, let’s say, they believe in aliens.

I find Aliens to be at least scientifically speaking a lot more plausible than a man in the sky.


That has a beard.

Who had a son?

Who sent the sun down to planet Earth, only to be killed to come back up to him, yet.

There’s still three of them.

There’s those two in the Holy Ghost, that isn’t more plausible than aliens.

So just if the Genesis of both religions, you can’t say one’s crazier just by its concept.


Even if you believe there’s aliens again, this is where you’ll probably go.

We don’t believe in aliens, but even if you do or dump, let’s just say you do for the Take this sure.

Okay good.

I think I do.

Okay, great.

I think yeah, I think it’s pretty plausible.

Like the fact that we would be completely alone.


In this universe.

There’s billions of billions of stars just within our cluster and we’re a yeah.

Yes, they’re in a cluster of galaxies that are cluster of cluster cluster of its.


Well, the universe is infinite.

Yeah, stay tuned for more armchair expert.


If you dare.

So, from the get-go, you know, it’s not more Preposterous than any of our main religions being judeo, Christian or Islam and then money, you got to pay a lot of money to go go through the ranks.


Well, so that I say, my grandparents were Baptist and they, they were expected to and did give 10% of their income to the church.

Yeah, one of the five pillars of Islam is donations.

So there is generally a financial commitment to any major Legend.


So in that there’s nothing really different and then third, oh, there are people there that are they’ll say slaves that work for nothing to Baba.

And I’ll say, how much are the choir boys?


How much are the guys?

Who carry the stuff in the Catholic procession?


Like service to your church?

Is also very, very, very normal.

And then to your point, which I think we should get out from the get-go in, I’m glad you said it, is you have your take on Scientology.

You’re not speaking for Scientology.

You’re not saying what everyone’s relationship with it.

I really, I too am in a group that people think is a cult, which is a, and there are as many different people that, you know, at your crowded bar room.


That’s how many different kinds of people are in a.


So you could meet someone at a, who’s a fucking lunatic.

Not question.


And his interpretation of a, my I might think is batshit crazy and his likewise of mine, he would think was crazy.


So, I don’t think either of us will be speaking for either of our organizations.


All right with that said, what is also unique about you is there are in my experience with scientologists, in La, which I know, probably a dozen.

Yeah, there are people who found it.

And there are people that were raised scientologists.


And you were raised scientologists.




It’s funny because I like to really be specific about that too, because it’s hard to, it’s hard to raise someone as a Scientologist because it’s something that you do.

Do is not something that you believe.


And so my parents definitely are scientologists.

Mmm approach to Parenting from a Scientology Viewpoint.

I know, I know that now, as an adult, I can see that in the way that they approached me as a kid and really trying to trying to do what I’m doing now, is a parent, which is trying to temper.


Absolutely necessary, discipline and rules and structure with fostering, independent, thought and freedom of personality, you know.

Just it has to be true for you.

It can’t like, don’t take anybody’s word for anything, ever.

Basically, without being a cynic or without being, you know, close mine, some kind of paranoid.


Yeah, it’s just the, what do you have if you don’t have yourself, mmm, so that and then various things like, you know, No, drinking and drugs and stuff like that.

We basically think it’s counterproductive like, right?

If you get right down to it.


And again, I’ll point out.

Yeah, but my understanding of it you can tell me if I’m wrong but sure drugs for sure is and that’s just off the table for.

Yeah, that’s right.


Drinking is allowed in.

Yeah, right.

I’m saying he’ll just drink.

Yeah, but they generally do not do drugs and are strongly urge.

You never to do drugs.



Yes, because it’s it, as the action of G when you are picking apart the chronology of your life and its effects upon you, it really helps to have that Lucidity and so like it’s almost now.


I’m circling back to the other topic but it’s almost just selfish on my part.

Like I want to be able to remember everything.

I want to be smart.

You want to be at your Peak, I do.

And I want to consider that I’m always just driving toward the my best self.


Yes, you were homeschooled.

Was that based on being Scientologist or being a child actor or a combination of both, being an actor?


Yeah, that was, that was a practical thing because I was spending so much time like in classes and auditions and work and all that stuff.

So, but Communication being just the key to solving any problem.



That’s I feel like that’s where my parents really also succeeded in making themselves safe to talk to ya.

So that when I did go and say I had my first beer, I told them instead of going, I’m going to be in such deep shit.


Like I can’t do that and then driving and like really getting into that the phenomena of just teenager dumb where everything they say is wrong.

No matter what it is.

And you know, I’m just like it’s so Defensive.


I never had to be so defensive because I was like it.


Well, this happened.

You want to say you that?

You did take the path of either.

I’m going to lie about it or I’m gonna be in trouble.

So now your brain gets very busy going.

Okay, so I’m going to be in trouble.

So I’m going to explain to them.

Well, Mike and Jenni also drink, right and you know, I’m the only person that doesn’t ring, right.


So now you’re creating this entire chatter in your head as fake argument.

That’s going to ensue in your in your bolstering, your side of the case.



So now you’re occupying, your whole brain with your side of the case.

That’s inevitably.

Coming your way.

Yep, or you’re gonna lie to him and now you’re building like, well, I did you drink tonight.



Because we went to Kathy’s and Kathy’s, mom is evangelic own.

There’s no booze in that you like, well, so exhaust your auto.

Yeah, you’re completely Off to the Races, right?

And either direction and you, you dig your heels in so hard.

When you know that, like when you’re going global my congenial, so drink it that added so you can’t own it.


You It’d be like, I’m not sure if that was the right thing to do.

If you’re, if you are already on the defense, right?

Yeah, it would be the feet to admit error.



It’s me against you right now and I have to win this and which is always the case, right?

With like, all of life, you know.


Yeah, and and they were never like, you need to go to church or anything like that to.

It was like, this is what we’re interested in.

These are the some of the things that we believe.

Oh, so you are not required to go like, oh, you’re going, you’re going in, we’re taking a tour, your know, like ever know.

No, it was like we think this is a good idea.



Would you check it out, you know.

And always with the choice and always I was like, yeah.


I mean I was a kid.

I was like, well, it sounds cool to me.


And then when I actually when I was like 12, I started doing a bunch of the little introductory courses that they still have.


Now that a few hours each.

They’re Guided by some type of teacher.

They’re not a teacher.

It’s a supervisor because it’s between you and the text.

But if you’re if you get Stuck not understanding something, the dictionary.

They right there and you know, they’re going to help you out.


Well, yeah, and then they’ll so let’s just go again.

This is all my Layman’s.

What I think I’ve gathered over the years.

Yeah, one of the big tenants right in Scientology or the learning technology is clearing words, right?

So when you’re reading something and you come across a word, which we all do, and you don’t know what it means and you just think whatever I’ll blow by it.


Maybe the context afterward, will help me understand what that was that.

Now, everything after that moment, after you’ve passed this word that you Don’t understand.

Now, all the information you’re going to gather after that is going to be a little bit skewed.

Is that my do I have it?


You do?


So one of the recommendations is that folks carry a dictionary or they have one around at all, you know.

Well, yeah, except if you’re gonna sit down and study, yeah, absolutely should do it with a dictionary and then every time you get to any word, you’re even a little bit confused about you.

You’re obligated to really look it up and really understand her before you go forward, right?


All the definitions that are in use if their archaic definitions, whatever.


But just I want to keep running into the same word.


It’s a different definition and you ignored that last time.

So it’s a very thorough process.

Okay, there’s four different definitions.

There’s two verbs in to add you know, like oh and there’s this noun one that’s super weird.


Nobody ever uses it like that but it’s grammatically.


Part of the English language.

Fine, you know, yeah.

Clear it and then you look at the etymology of it comes from Latin mostly, you know, yeah, check it out.

And then you get it and it becomes that part of you that you don’t have to like, Fill in the blank with, you know, as you’re reading the sentence, you know, how you do that?



How you’re like and the synonym for that word?


Conversely to clearing words.

I actually enjoy the challenge of.

I have no fucking clue what that word is, but I guarantee with five more sentences.

I’ll be able to figure out what they meant.

Yeah, like I almost enjoy that challenge of it.

That’s a, that’s a fun game.



That’s just the Dax Shepard approach.


Yeah, and maybe probably informed, by being dyslexic.

There’s like, if I to look up every fucking word, I would have just never dictionary 12.


Did you find that laborious?

A kid, or did you find it fun?

Like a, like little bits of research?

I think it’s just kind of, to me.


It was just like part of like, that’s schooling, you know, and being in the school age.

It just kind of made sense.

I have to imagine a built a real.

You probably have a, quite a catalogue of words in your vocabulary from having done that.


It’s pretty good.


Cold loves to challenge me.

He loves.

Yeah, he’s like, there’s no no way.

You’ve heard of this word.

What does this mean?

And I’m like, oh, yeah.

Means he’s like no way.

Coal is Erica’s very, very handsome.

Physically fit, Mustafa geode husband.


I’ll drag it in 2000 good.

So so around 12, you started doing it and then you start liking it and are they giving you tools to go through your normal trials, and tribulations as a 12 year old?


Like are they?

Yeah, they’re giving you kind of like techniques to use when you run into challenging.

Relations even at that age.

Sure the the names of those introductory courses are like Success Through communication, right?


How did genuinely communicate one person to another not just like talk at each other.

And there’s a really simple thing about this too.

I has been explained to me by one of our mutual friends which yes when scientologists talk to people there.

They’re committed to listening, right?

Isn’t there’s like a specific approach to listening.


Well, it’s literally just that it’s my turn to Be receiving you, if you are talking to me.

I’m not supposed to be talking to you.

I’m supposed to be listening.

Do you?

What about planning?

The next thing you’re going to say while you’re talking to me?

No, that’s not listening bummer because what whatever it is, you could give an example as if we’re just playing ball, right?


So I can’t be throwing and catching it at the same time.

You’ve got the ball, you’re throwing to me and I that means I’m catching it once.

I’ve received the ball, cool.

Which is also an acting exercise that they play with young kid actors.

Someone was just telling me some butt.

Oh, yeah, May was explaining that she had an acting coach, that kind of explained listening and talking to her by doing that on the set.


Yeah, which is fascinating.

It’s great.

You would just hope that the person that you’re listening to can actually Express the concept that they want you to grasp.


And so your goal is to be able to grasp what it is that they’re telling you.


Yes, and vice versa.

You’d hope that That what you’re trying to express is actually grasped as.

Yeah, but it does sound like you’re actually making an effort, which was one is one of my soapbox things of you’re making an effort to understand the person’s point of view, which I don’t think any one teaches us really.


It’s almost like from the second you engage.

It’s like you’re trying to plant your flag in their brain or vice versa.

I think it comes from insecurity that like if you actually let that person’s point of view seep into your brain enough and really be empathetic and if so to really try on Have that your stance may change but I think there’s fear in that I think that’s part of the reason we’re so resistant to it, like God, if I really do hear them out and I really imagined myself being going through all those steps.


Maybe I’ll reverse my position and that’s scary to people.

Oh, it’s terrifying.

Scary to me.

It’s scary too.

I think, you know, most people, what did I just reverse my position on Monica?

Forget it was really a good one.

I’m sorry.

No, it’s very brave of you.


It’s so stupid.

Monica said the other day.

Look, you have changed your opinion on something.

We said.

Remember and I forgot like me and the I bet we’ll have it by the fact.


So at any rate, yes, the willingness to really hear someone out without fear that your position is going to crumble, right.


Under this new point of view is just kind of Healthy and ever.


For a lot of folks.


Well it brings me to another interesting Scientology principle, which is that In a confusion.

Also likening it to a physical thing.


If you’re in a storm with leaves blowing all around you, you know, it’s disorienting and confusing and when you’re losing well, okay.

And so what you do to solve that is grab one piece and that’s where you start, right?

Hmm, and then everything else is related to that.



Like, you’ve zeroed in your focus and your your literal, I focus and your attention to one thing, right?

And you can So you can do that mentally with any subject and you can be completely wrong in the leaf that you grab.


But you feel so much better to have a leaf.


And so if someone’s trying to pry it out of your hands, mmm, it’s you, you feel the, your reality is going shit.


Oh, yeah, and so, if you’re willing to just, wait that out and then decide, if you’re going to grab a new Leaf, uh-huh, then you can call them back down as soon.


Soon, as you have a new one, but you need to have a stable datum against which to relate everything else.

Right, but it’s so uncomfortable to go through the switching.

Yeah, that it’s and it makes you feel like you’re wrong, and it makes you feel like you’re losing part of your identity and all of those things.


So, in our identity once, that is even remotely threatened, that’s where the worst side of ourselves comes out because that’s what we’re protecting is.

If it were our children or our source of food, like that’s very threatening to people Okay, so when so then what a physical steps, like when you you, I’m sure find yourself in situations where it’s very chaotic and all this is happening.


And what is it that you tell yourself to steady yourself and and be able to focus?

It’s basically like will say it’s a decision that needs to be made is that like, yes, so you have all these factors and basically the the step-by-step process that I can put myself through is it’s actually it’s written out.


By L Ron Hubbard, and it’s called the doubt formula and you can go through it.

And basically, I mean it’s like a an expansion of like a pros and cons list where you evaluate, what are my intentions for this thing?

And then what are this?

What are the other intentions and then did the intentions and actions of these two things match up or do lets you hypothetical.


You get offered a job next week in New York City to be on a new TV show.


And so what in your mind, well, I have a kid and I have one on the way that goes in the That’s right.

Do I want to be traveling to New York with a new?

The two babies?


Well, wouldn’t be in the causeless.


It would be, what are my intentions?

So my intentions are to preserve my family unit, whatever, whatever, you know, like continue on that way.

And then what are the intentions of this show?

Who knows, maybe they’ve really really respect that.

And they want to make that transition as smooth as possible, and figure out how to have my family life there and all that.


I don’t know.

I have to find out.

Okay, right, but say they’re like no, make it work.


Okay, good.

So noted, their intentions are to make their TV show.

Under whatever circumstances.

My family be damned.

Hahaha and then go through that way.



And just look at all of the intentions and all of the resulting actions from those intentions.

And essentially, the efficacy of those actions in accomplishing those things.

So even you could find that You know, we’re totally on the same page with the intentions, mmm, but the actions are really not working.


So I don’t want to join in your actions when you’re like failing at whatever you’re doing.

Right, right, and yeah, you just take yourself through until it becomes clear.



I need to I need to be on your team about this or not.

And do you find that most that you are decisive person that you generally can come to a decision that you feel good about it.


Don’t regret.

Yeah, but I mean, it’s funny cuz if you are just asking if I’m a decisive person.

I feel like I’m better at making the bigger choices than the smaller choices.

I don’t tend to regret those like real life changing.


Yeah, but then if I get stuck on something and I and it’s just not Feeling like I’m able to do it.

Then I then I have to do the doubt formula.

I don’t have to always do it right now, a lot of the time, you’re like Gathering the information from the other person and you’re just like, oh, yeah, that’s not gonna work, right?


There’s some instinctual gut-level.


Ooh, that’s yeah.

Or you just know yourself.

Well enough to see like that doesn’t match up.


Or have done this in the past and didn’t pan out or yeah, right.

I think it.

I think people myself included could get really bogged down in what the theory is behind.


Certain things at the expense of evaluating the outcome, right?

So for instance, there are many parts of AA that I think are either misogynistic because it was written in the 30s or way to God.


Centric for my taste.

There’s a whole batch of things in there.

I maybe don’t agree with, but then if I look at the results of this thing, and the results are these, people were either going to be dead in prison or in an insane asylum, and now they’re healthy thriving.

And have kids, right?


I could choose to continue to focus on these three elements that I disagree with in theory, or I can just look at the results and care a little bit more about that.

Like, it’s a choice.

I get to make sense.


I’m naturally not drawn to Scientology.


Just because a, I don’t you, and I, this is one of the long debates.

We had in a car driving back from Seth’s wedding.

Yeah, remember this.

And this was one of my one, my one issues with it.

Okay, so there’s a book Dianetics by L.


Ron Hubbard, right?

It teaches you how to go clear.



There is a Bible.

There’s a Bible.

That’s all the information there is on on.

Catholicism is in that Bible, right?

So why is there a priest?

I don’t understand why there’s a priest who has to tell me what the meaning of the words in that book is that that’s always been my objection to Catholicism is how it why is there a hierarchy when it’s based on a text?


We all have the ability to read the text.


One’s a better.

Or Worse interpreter of text.

It’s just I mean that’s not true.

Obviously, some people can interpret what they re but all things being equal, the pope and I have the same intellect and the same reading comprehension level.

Why on Earth.


Does that guy know more about the same book that we both read and why is he been elevated to a position of power and authority?

I don’t trust that totally invalid.

So my criticism at one point of yours was well if this is based on text why on Earth are their levels?


Why is there a hierarchy?

Why is A president.

The old were the only things I think is absolutely miraculous about a a is it’s a completely structureless organization.

There is no president’s, there’s no secretaries.

There’s no nothing.

Nobody knows, more than anyone else.

Dude, with two days sobriety as just a valid as pinion as I do with 13.


That is amazing.

That’s magic.


The one thing I’ll say is the coolest part of it.

Hey, right?


So, and then, what was your defensive that when I was saying I don’t understand what you Erika Christensen who I know is a smartass motherfucker and has access to the text.

Why would you need in?

Struction from someone else, or why would you elevate or put Faith in someone above you when it’s based on a text?


Well, mostly, I don’t, and I don’t remember what I would have said at the time because this is why I recorded it’s like 7 years ago, but basically you’re absolutely right.

You read something.


And your relationship is with the information there and Observation of those things as true in the world around you or not.

Now, there is definitely the, as far as the levels is just that you, you don’t take trig like before you finished your arithmetic and and they’re not going to let you read it.


They’re going to say, no finish, your addition and multiplication tables before you get there.


Because it’s not going to make any sense because you’re saying like level, let’s say level 7 has has 6 levels of prerequisite knowledge.


That you couldn’t really even comprehend, what you would be reading.


Yeah, it’s just sequence.



Well, that makes sense.

Yeah, but what I was going, I started to say and then I got sidetracked with our debate, which is I know a lot of scientologists and I don’t I don’t think I agree with many of the tenants or maybe the origin or I might not hold l.ron Hubbard in the same degree that you guys do any of that stuff, almost unilaterally, all the scientologists.


I know.

Yeah, very Happy pretty damn healthy, pretty productive, pretty responsible, great communicators.

So when I can I can get bogged down in like, you know, the history of l.ron Hubbard and certain things like this or I kind of just go like fuck man.


I know 12 of them.

They’re super duper happy and they’re doing their thing and I can just look at the results of this thing and I can say whether or not, I agree with it.

It’s totally working for you guys.

We have a lot of mutual friends where I’m like, yeah, there’s some of my favorite people and they’re happy as hell.

Yeah, and then some of them have overcome.


Got to get there and and all that.

That’s I mean, that’s very cool.

That’s very, that’s really taking a step back on your part, to be able to observe that.

It’s kind of what l.ron Hubbard was is saying throughout Dianetics and throughout a lot of his books.


He’s like, listen, I don’t, you don’t have to believe this but this keeps happening.

So it seems to be true.

So look at this for the from that Viewpoint.

Yeah, because I know it sounds crazy and and like a bunch of people that Were doing it in 1950, when he wrote the book were like, what are you talking about?


And he’s like, yeah.

Listen, it works when you do it this way, right?

So that’s that’s what I’m telling you.

Yeah, but you don’t have to believe it.

How much of the critique of you consumed any of it?

No, because I don’t think that.

It comes from an actual place of like your critiques of like I don’t think it comes from critical thinking.


I think it comes more from maybe that phenomena were talking about of being threatened, something goes against what somebody believes in really identifies with.

And so they feel very threatened and go on the attack about something.


And so I just think it doesn’t really have anything to do with me and my relationship with these books.


Things that I do.

I met a really cool dude at the White House Correspondents Dinner like four years ago, and he happened to be high up in the Huffington Post or some newspaper journalistic thing and we got to talking and then I came up that I was sober and he goes, oh, I’d really like your input on this piece.


We’ve been working on for like months.

There’s been two stages of it and it’s all about the Opium epidemic, our opioid epidemic and this kind of controversial use of Suboxone.

This this pill you can take that will prevent you basically From OD nor has good success in doing that.


He said, and I would like your opinion on it.

And I said, yeah, be happy to give you my opinion.

So I end up reading all of their stuff, you know, and generally in a were pretty anti Suboxone.

We’re pretty anti another pill, you take two and it does, it does get you your you are in an altered state even when you’re on this thing, right?


And so it’s like methadone.


It’s Better methadone, I guess.

And at the risk of I don’t really know that much.

Don’t take my word.

I don’t want to get sued by whoever owns Suboxone, but, you know, most of us are pretty much against it because we don’t really know how you end up doing the real work that really calls you to be an alcoholic to begin with if you’re in an altered state, right, while you’re trying to do that work, right?


And said it’s a cheat for.

Well, in my point to him was well, let’s just go as because their argument which is very solid and I understand why it has traction is Look, all that being said, sure, they’re not going to do it.

Perfect like you want to, but a fucking 100 teenagers are dying a year in Cincinnati and your fucking, your little high on a soapbox stance about evolving as a person and self-actualization, albeit, maybe a good goal.


These are people’s kids that are going to fucking die and if we give them this pill, we find that they don’t die on it.

In two years at a third of the radio is when people just go to treatment and try to do it without it, right.

So that’s a really compelling, great argument.


And then I ended up saying well great.


And if that’s the bar if that’s what we’re just trying to prevent overdoses, then let’s go a step further.

Let’s just have one of these like diabetic implant systems you have and soon as someone you detect is Odeon from from an opioid.

Just shoot them back up with adrenaline so they can just keep going.


Like if that’s all we’re doing this, but I don’t think anyone would get on board with a pump that administers adrenaline when you vote deed as a solution to this problem.


Yeah, it all got very complicated.

But all I would I bring that up only to say, I read a lot of critique of AA in those pieces.


And then it also brought me down a rabbit hole of reading other like, academic critiques of it.

Uh-huh, and it’s kind of brainwashing capabilities, and it’s cult-like attributes, and all these things.

And now I’m fine reading that.

You know, I’m saying, like I can read that, I can even acknowledge.


A lot of those points are really good points.

And then I also just then, step back and go.

Yeah, but I have two kids and a wife now and that was impossible.

When it before AAA.

So you might be right, but I don’t really care.

I’m still going to stay on this path.


But I’m open to that critique.


And most of my Scientology friends that I’ve asked about it, which I’m always nervous about asking because I don’t want to offend anyone but I always wonder.

Why couldn’t you just watch the going?

Clear documentary or something?

Because it, honestly, it doesn’t have anything to.


Do with what you’re doing.

Well, yeah, and honestly with anything that I’ve ever learned about the group or organization as a group or organization, there are the I mean to be specific about that one.

Yeah, like if somebody has read a book read Dianetics or some Scientology book and wants to philosophically, tell me what they disagree with cool.



Like that is a totally different.

Thing or to say like I disagree with organized religion and I disagree with it.

Like that’s all fine.

But specifically with that documentary, a documentary was based on a book.

The book was not even published certain English speaking countries because the libel laws are stricter than they are here.


Ah, it’s so there’s so much that is actually Talking about sources, right?

Since I don’t actually, since I can’t refer to specific data.


Talking about sources.

They have proved themselves to be irrelevant.


And so it’s like it’s like with certain political figures when there came a point where you just reached like, oh, it doesn’t matter what he says, right?




Like, where you realize that like, oh, it literally doesn’t matter what he says.

He’s lying.



There are people like that.

Like that’s what I look at mostly is the source and I get to evaluate the source and go.


That person has been convicted of perjury, uh-huh, previously, right?


So, no, there’s nothing like there’s no relevance Rim what they’re saying, what they’re saying.

Have you though had any really close personal friends over the years who have left as a kid?

It was more like people, you know kids that were like nah, not me not for me, right?


Which I totally understand.

And I’m like, okay, cool.


Southern Baptist wasn’t for me as it turned out, right?

Yeah, although man, no better food than after Southern Baptist Church, at least the way they did it.

Michigan man, you know that long sermon ended where you could barely get through it.


My Grandpa would slap my brother and I 20 times.

Side note, we’d loved yelling.


That’s the only thing that got us through church is that they healed?

Amen, you know, they were, they were permitted to yell.


And so, my brother, and I would try it.

We would think we could feel it out, and we would just yell a man.


It was never the time to yell at him.

We could smack.

But anyway, immediately after you walk, right outside in the backyard and a grassy lawn.

There’s like seven, picnic tables.

It is fucking barbecue Time game on it was worth it for me.


If you ever break down in, you’re hungry, find the closest Southern Baptist Church on a Sunday and dig in it, really?


And into the southern part, they’re going to be braced.

It they’re all from Kentucky.

So I think that’s why that I’m going to go completely off the topic for one second, because on that same trip when we had that debate.

I can see the exact Road in my head.

We were in my Tahoe at the time.


Yeah, and we were driving to a really romantic hotel.

So everyone already knows.

I’m with Kristen Bell.

So there’s nobody that really would know me at this time and not know that.

I’m with Kristin.


Also, anyone that would see us in knows, would probably knows we’re both on Parenthood together and playing brother and sister.


We’re about Midway home from driving back from Seth’s wedding in Northern California.

And I go.

Should we get a hotel?

I know this hotel.

It has the most amazing grilled-cheese in.

You’re like fuck.

Yeah, let’s do it.

And then I’m like, do you want to get two rooms?

Or should we just get one room?


You’re like, yeah, let’s just get one room will get two queen beds.

We’re both Frugal.

Yeah, so we basically Checking in this room manic, were the only people there that are not on a honeymoon or like trying to repair their marriage and then come to find out in order to get to our room, to have to walk us through the restaurant.


The Outdoor restaurant in many, many.

People are.

I don’t want to over exaggerate how popular you are, but suffice to say, many people recognized that it was us and we’re being led by one guy with one key to a room and we both have overnight bags and then we just fully check into a room together and we just thought the whole rest of the trip like Like certainly, they’ll be a story that were yeah, and were each other’s side pieces.


You were like if I read that there’s no way that I would disbelieve if it’s true about any other two people, absolutely related are grilled cheeses Chandler and Monica.

Check into a fucking where were there?

We were in like out, Carmel.

Where my heart?

I read a story Chandler, and Matthew Perry, and Courtney Cox Mac, Matthew Perry, and Courtney Cox checking into a really romantic hotel for the night.


And Think about how everybody in the restaurant.

Must like, are they is somebody to somebody care enough to like, try to leak it to the Press?

Yeah, be kind of fun, right?

If they did.

Yo, absolutely.

Yeah, because Kristen, of course, would well, even before we had done that.

We, this all happened, not too long after we shot the pilot of Parenthood and when we shot the pilot of Parenthood, we were up in Berkeley for about three weeks and at a certain point Kristen got in this gift card to go to this out.


Outrageous Hotel Calistoga Ranch in Napa Valley.

And then we drove up there to go for the weekend.

And when we got there, they gave us the key and it was like four little houses.

It was like a compound that one little house was this amazing kitchen.

One house was like a living room and then there was two little houses that were bedrooms and we were both immediately as romantic as it was.


We were like, we would feel guilty just having this to ourselves, like, other people need to enjoy the.

So, we called Erica, and we’re like, bodge.

Do you want to come up to this out?

Regis resort with us.

Yeah, I showed up we had some hot tub time.

Yeah, we got in the hot.


So we’d already really been kind of cohabitating, eat it and hotels together.

Prior to the Carmel Lover’s Retreat.

This is stories.

We could tell I love cc.

This is an example of the way.

You can take a bunch of facts and make a story and make it sound like whatever you want.


Yeah, and some of the facts are absolutely true.

True and we fucked and well that to several time only punctuated by grilled cheese, grilled cheese and strawberry ice cream and a grilled cheese.

Are we talking?


Holy shit.

Well, first of all, use cut in the most.

Extravagant shape remembers like round on the outside, but then, a diagonal crispiest bread.

You ever had real long about this long just for everyone knows I’m holding up my hands about the size of a Subway footlong sub.


I can’t believe this.

Must be before my obsession with food.

Really started to sink in.

No, this was right.

Smack dab in the middle of your obsession with eating lots of supplements and that hasn’t changed doesn’t change.

No, you open the pantry and I think I even did ask you one time.

I’m like, is this Scientology related?


Because by the way, here’s what I am.

Guilty of any time.

I observed.

You do anything?

That doesn’t make sense to me.

I go straight to all this.

Got to be a sight.

I think definitely is that are the supplements anything to do with that.

Nothing Mets.


There’s that’s mandatory.

Okay, there is well, the purification Station program.


You must know about take a lot of nice.

Yeah, exactly.

You take a bunch of supplements.

You take a lot of niacin which is a particular B vitamins, B, 3.

And then in order to keep your bees and balance, you have to take a bunch of other B, vitamins and a bunch of other stuff that just helps the detox process and a lot of people just end up being like, I feel so good.


Maybe I’ll just continue doing some vitamins.

And there are certain things that help also with the Lucidity, when you’re working on things mentally.


What would be one of those I think Single blow blow.

That’s how you say it.

But I think everyone know what I’m talking about.

Surely it into ginkgo biloba, low plank 0 plus h, so the little ginseng.


Yeah, I mean, hey, I’m game, but the, but the one, the Scientology one is vitamin B1.

Okay, you guys love your bees.

We do.

It’s all about the babies.

By the way.

Alcohol is burns up vitamin B1.


So it does it like so binds to it or something.

Yes, somehow.

And so.

So then you have to either replenish it or have nightmares.

Okay, or, or just take.

What is that a product of b 1?

D deprivation is nightmares.



I mean, I have you ever done like like a painkiller or maybe?

I don’t know if you’re done.

Couple hundred.

Yeah, but yeah, yeah.

When you do painkillers, and then you have gnarly Dreams.

Yeah, that’s be 10, logistically one with it.

Oh God.


I can finally go back to my own.

Your addiction.

It was the nightmares.

That was keeping you away.

Yeah, I was taking a lot opioids.

When we were first started knowing one another, your episodes of Punk’d where I was on 30 or 40 Vicodin.



I’m sure my liver was doing great at that time.


Yeah, but your bounce rate that may still look at me young and very often.

When we signed on to do Parenthood.

We had all agreed to do that show in San Francisco.

Yeah, and I had told myself at the time.

Oh, no big deal.

That’s a 40-minute flight from LA.

I’ll be able to fly up and then fly back.



I can deal with that and on my very initial flight up there.

For the pilot.

I had a full panic attack was like, oh my God, I can’t live in a fucking airplane, four times a week.

I’m gonna kill myself.

I can’t do this.

And then luckily they moved the show to La for all of us.

Yeah, but I think it was I want to see was in your hotel room there, but maybe it was just in.


I’m thinking of your trailer, but when I say you have a lot of supplements, I can’t put too fine a point on this.

I want to say that I have witnessed at least 60 bottles.

You had you had huge moving boxes like when you’ve had too Travel, it’s true.


I think.


I said that hasn’t waned at all.

I would like to revise that.

I think definitely it has okay, but as a whole just throw away, let’s not go there because that would be like another boring hour of conversation.


I have had health problems.

And so I have seen even at that time, like as a teenager seen, you know, naturopaths and stuff like that and they’ve said like yeah, this will help with this and this will help with that not to mention.

Me just devouring nutrition books.

So there was just a lot.


Yes, going on.

Well, the vitamins, like, I don’t know how you found the time to eat.

All those are if you were even hungry for real food, after that you what?

I’m gonna guess that you could probably swallow a real handful of.

Yeah, because you had a problem not even you do you mean water?




No, I mean, do you ever gangster enough that you just fucking chew them up in your mouth?

What there were some that I would chew.

Oh, wow.

That was Europe.

It was a specific doctor who was like, hey, you know, what for the absorption?



Come on.

Yeah, you gotta get it to absorb.

How can tell us what happened?

The affect you.

You were, you were born in Seattle, but you you grew up here in l.a.

Right at what age did you guys move?


We moved here when I was four.

Okay, so Dane and Brando were one, they were one now, Erica’s brothers, and I’m sure you can find pictures of them online and I implore you to do.


So there are these, do they are they are gorgeous specimen there.

What are they?



No, Beethoven 5.


All right.

Well, I’ll compromise it 64.

So if you see any photos of me with them, they’ll look seven feet and you’ll be in heels, probably in those pictures but these two Monica.


Yes, because they’re your age.

How old are they?

They’re 30.

Yeah, Bullseye one of them is single.

What are your thoughts on Scientology?

Well, they are fucking studs there.



They’re physically fit, like, you can’t imagine.

And then they’re both weird as fuck.

And I say that as the ultimate compliment, they both have like really specific interest, right there?

Always like kind of pursuing something bizarre.

I love that.

One of them is super into his nothing shocking.


Oh, yeah, I probably probably.

Well they’re both in their into motorcycles.

They have great style they had and they definitely they like have a level of not giving a shit about any of this.


Like they respect people at work hard and have success and they one of them is a painter and a writer and the other one is a photographer and an actor kind of both of them very artistic, but that could flip that.

Look, you never know.

Which ones.

Which Noah are they twins?


Yeah, they’re identified.

Oh, wow, there’s to the price of one.

That’s really.

If you ever seen this, they must get this all the time.

There’s like a real estate show or these twin brothers.

Sell real estate of you ever seen that show the Property, Brothers, Property, Brothers.


I don’t like this this comparison, although I totally understand it.

They nand Brando are very studly.

There are more steadily than those guys, but but my God, it’s almost the exact same thing.

Monica, so if you’ve seen those guys, you ain’t getting a feel know what’s happening.

No, but their Venom’s, those, they’re they’re not attractive to me.


That’s the only.

I think that’s mainly that must be what my objection is.

I’m like, yeah, but, but Dana Brandon are not selling them.


I know selling that.

I agree.

I agree.

I just know that when I first clicked on it, like I was blowing through the station’s, I guess.

Yeah, Jesus Jonathan.


Randall and Deena are selling fucking condos in Manhattan.

That happened.

It’s pretty good.

Much more like, I feel like this is a, like, the grandma way to describe it.

But they’re very rock and roll compared to the they are these guys are very silver.

Like, very chic, and cool, and sexy.


And you started young, you’re in a McDonald’s commercial which just makes me so happy.

This was before, dot dot dot dot da.

What was the campaign you do?

You even remember what was?

Are you like getting chased by the Hamburglar or something?

No, I wish.


It was just a sweepstakes thing.


Like oh my God, Monopoly things.

Yeah, I guess so.

So you would peel off and then you we want a trip to Disneyland is I?

Yes, like that was the audition and that’s what we did on.

The day of work was just like, jump up and down like we won something.


So Mom and Dad want a trip by pulling on the yes, super-sized Coca-Cola.


And then you went apeshit.


Did you think you did a good job?

I mean, I got a job.

Well, sometimes you get the job and then you do next.

It’s you’re good at the setting.

Like a lot of people.

Yeah, I remember Like just the first foray into this world.


How old are you?

12, 12, okay.

In your parents, any resistance to it or fully supportive from the get?

They didn’t tell me, they kept it between themselves but their agreement was to just give me a shot at it.

And like, let me go on auditions for a few weeks or whatever, right?


And so within six weeks, which was I think they’re they’re they’re like, let’s give it.

Yeah, let’s re-evaluate and six weeks.

I I’d booked three National commercials.

Let me just say though if you’re, if you’re in Milwaukee right now and you’re thinking I’ll go give acting six weeks, you know, I know it’s crazy.


But that’s that.

It was a very it was it was so clearly.

Yeah, you know, worth pursuing for me and I had no doubt about it.

Like I was like, yeah, this is I like, I’m getting married to acting sold rest of my life.

When did you, did you love TV to do?

Love musicals as you love?



No, this is weird because it’s a, it’s a mental leap that, I don’t know exactly how I made, but I had been performing live with this amateur group of kids, singing and dancing all over La at like the LA County Fair and old folks homes in whatever right?


Right funerals.

Yeah, surely.

He had a singing and really being electrified by that experience and by connecting with people from the stage and being whoa.

When I sing to someone, they invariably will come up to me afterwards and talk to me and like, it’s so exciting for both of us and then there was A girl in school, who was an actor like actually was getting jobs getting work as an actor.


You can say it Cate Blanchett.


She was also a, she’s in my class.

And so I knew that to be an actor, you had to have an agent and you had to actually be an actor, like you had to go on auditions and get work and stuff like that.


And not just perform with your church group like, huh?

And so my parents just started to You like gently dig around like so what’s, what’s your interest in?

You know, you’re taking singing lessons and dance lessons, uh-huh, going to rehearsals and all this stuff.


So basic surgery, all the bulimia.

So is that is that leading somewhere.

So, but never support because you were clearly good at it and you were going to and I was spending a bunch of time with all of these things that were somewhat related to Endeavor anyway, so I was like, yeah, I want to be an actor.


Her right?

Like I want an agent and I want to do it.

I want to go on auditions and get work and being active, you are in a fucking Mike Jackson commercial.

Oh, yes, music video.

See I’m sorry music video.

I got so hung up on wanting to say Mike Jackson and I wanted to nail that, that I forgot the second held the Mike Jackson.



So, so Mike Jackson, he decides he’s going to do a music video or unlike doing the many commercials.

He’s done, right?

Yeah, um, a beautiful ballad called childhood, which is a really Add song.

Okay, but you know, he says, have you seen my childhood?


Yeah, but it’s a very Whimsical music video where there are ships in the sky like flying through the clouds and and they hired some kids to be in the ships and so much happening clouds my tear off my Jackson back then.


I mean, yeah, it was like he’s so beyond comprehension though.

It was Like we were going to get to meet him and then he can blame him.

He was out trying to find his childhood.

Yeah, he sent me a an autographed photo.


Well, we did.

Yeah, I still have.

I mean, I I have two storage units so I’m like, oh, please don’t have it again.

Okay, now I want to go to the first time.

I knew you as an actor, which is traffic right.

And one of my, I got some my top 10 movies of all time.


I so good.

Boxing love that.

Movie so much.

Um, and you in particular, like stood out to me.

So you and Benicio del Toro was like, who are these people?

We both love him?

Yes, if Libya flip you for real, which by the way, if you follow Eric on Twitter, her bio.


Is he flip you.

He could be for real?

It’s all flippy-flippy for all.

Yes, but it is the quote.


Yes, from Benicio del Toro.

So if you’re deep diving America, that’s what that means.

But yeah, you were so unbelievably.

I think we worked together for three years on Parenthood before.


I finally got the courage to say to you, when you smoke the heroin in that scene and you look up in your eyes, are so dilated and that single tear falls out of those big blue eyes.

How the fuck did you do that?

How many takes did that take?

How do you do that at 16 or 17?


I think it’s the most powerful image in the whole movie which has a ton of powerful images in it.

You remember your answer your like acting Gods?

Yeah, I guess I do remember that because I, it’s funny, you know.

Have certain things you get asked, that’s one of them.


So it is, well, it was certainly wasn’t the time being that much closer to it.


I’m not the only person who recognize how brilliant I was so young.

So people have asked you that in the past prior to me saying that to you.

Yeah, and it’s what I remember meeting Don Cheadle for the first time because none of us work together, right?


Right, and he said, how did you get to be so good?

And I was like, oh, thank you.

And he was like, no.

How did you get to be so many the rest of like Oh, thanks.


No, that’s that’s not what you’re asking.

Okay, I just took it as a compliment, which is really, yeah, but you just said it just happened.



Yeah, essentially.

I mean, honestly, the dilated pupils didn’t just happen, that was done that.

I called props and asked them if we could hook me up and I went to an optometrist or whatever got them.

Those were content.


Yes, and they always that was that was driven by you that Isn’t it wasn’t that?

You know what, that was in the course of all my research since I had done and still have done as, you know, no drugs, right and had to actually built.


I got a bag of Boom.



You guys are gonna have your first mushroom trip.

I’m sure one of the ways that I approached.

It was very scientifically.

I wanted to know everything that was happening to your body and during these experiences and then extrapolate what, that might feel.


Like, in all of that and so learning the difference between like, oh, your pupils are Pandora, other super dilated like, okay, cool.

And in the course, of all of that, I think I was talking to my mom about it and she was like, well, you should contact and I was like, you’re absolutely right.

That’s right now.

And see if they can do that, and then they did and it was and I was need that school.


That’s what being prepared and caring results in.

But and I was always confused because yeah, Coke and meth always make your pupils gigantic, right?

But opioids.

Usually Pin holes, right?

I think it was actually by that.

We were freebasing crack in that scene.


Okay, it was never just clear as I wanted it to have a totally that’s a smoking off a tree, but at any rate, I I fucking love it.

You’re so great in that when you get traffic.

Now, this is a completely new, chapter starts in your life, right?


That I mean, it’s funny because I feel like my life started as me when I was 12, when I got on board with like, this is what I want to do and then absolutely We, that was a completely different chapter.


I mean, traffic.

That’s nominated for everything.

You want a sag award.

You won.

I looked you one like nine different best performer, you know, and best new performer of the Year.

This person is going to be the greatest person of all time Awards.

Like, there were a lot of those Awards.

I wish.


I like Breakthrough stars of 2001.

You want it from people.

So when I got up, I got the popcorn.

I got the MTV Movie Awards.

Yeah, which is really exciting.

Yeah, so at that time you were 17.

Yeah, or I must be 18.


Okay the time.

Yeah, and when that’s all happening, what kind of thoughts do you start having?

And I mean, specifically career-wise, do you think?


Now I’m going to do get to do blank.

Did your, does your imagination run away with you?

And what’s coming next?

I’m sure it did.


But what it felt like the most was like, there’s this big and it is pretty big, but there’s this big group of people that make up, you know, quote-unquote Hollywood.


And like, now I’m part of it.


They let me in the door for this party, you know, so and I I knew it too, like from the beginning when I got the job.

People ask, you know, what did you ever think in your wildest dreams that this movie would be the success when I was like, yes, like you have you seen this cast?


Like yes, I thought it was gonna be a big deal.

Yeah, and it was a big deal.

Thank God because it’s a great movie and it’s done a lot for, you know, really interesting things, you know, like families being able to broach the topic where they never were able to before and yeah, all that kind of stuff.



Well, I was a really comprehensive.

Look at all three sides from addiction to policy.

Making to what’s really happening in Mexico is very, very even-handed with what the the quote war.


It is.

Yeah, that was probably the first movie of that kind, I think of.



Usually, it’s one-sided.

The DEA guy.



Or the drug cartel boss, or yeah.

This is, I don’t want to nerd out.

But yeah, just the idea that he decided to shoot it with three different film stock, so that it was three clearly different perspectives and everything’s blue.

He’s with you guys and everything is yummy and red when he’s with Benicio and all that stuff is so cool and sophisticated.


So that happens you win these Awards.

Do you develop any fantasy?

Any any like I’m going to be a star?

I’m going to live in a certain house.

I’m going to have a boyfriend.

Who is Justin Timberlake?

Like, do because you don’t, you don’t strike me as that type of person.


I did have all of that.

Oh, you did.

But but from way before, all right, you know, like it was like, Like, I used to lay awake at night, you know, to fall asleep.

I would think about, like, what’s my life gonna be like, you know, what do I?

And I would mostly just like to entertain myself, like, just try to think of pretty things.


Like, you know, think of a pretty house or think of, you know, in the details of like what is it like to live there and what is it like, to have that life.

And but then it just like all of that validation, definitely seem like, well, you’re on the right path, you know, you’re gonna get to the things that you set out to do.


Just, you know, selfishly just accumulate, you know, as far as tangible things, but but really, it was like you’re allowed to play in this game.


Yes, and and I, you know, what was the stress?

Level recognizing?



I’m now in this club, the stress of picking correctly.

Was that did you feel that or did you not care?

I did feel that and I did care.

What would have been?

A cooler approach was to really do what I try to do, you know now and since at some point past that time, but really try to find the things that resonate with me.



Yeah, what what are the you know, even if I can’t express y, just like I’m a fan of this script for whatever reason, you know, like I think it’s awesome for whatever reason, at that time.

I was more concerned with just like It’s striking while the iron was hot.


Yeah, making a great business decisions.

Yeah, and like and just continuing to work, you know, which is which is something that most of us also still have as actors you’re like, but I need to continue to have so they’re like because that that feeling you had standing there, receiving a popcorn.



Unfortunately, that is a very short-lived, feeling as great as it feels.


Within five weeks, you’re waking up and if the Phone hasn’t rung.

You’re like did that even happen?

Everyone forgot?


Oh, shit.

I pass.

I had it.


And then I passed it on accident, like your mind.

Just starts telling you, you’re on such a different time frame than the real world.


Your days are long in your head, but you’re not in other people’s.

Well, it’s the his funny though, that.

I mean, the value of having a goal anyway, is not in achieving it.


It’s in having.

Its you have a reason to wake up in the morning.

And so, that’s kind of playing the long game is then what you start to.

Eyes and start to switch over to like, oh, it’s great.

It’s so unique and special and wonderful that I love my job.

Yeah, and so, and that it affects people in positive ways and like all of the real reasons why you do it, you know, and then you GI just refocus on.



I don’t think people realize how critical those decisions you make when you get the keys to the kingdom are and you have no practice.

Yeah, there’s nothing there’s there’s almost Almost nowhere to go, but down.



Yeah, it’s, you’re like standing on top of a mountain.


Yeah, you just gold medal.


Yeah, and you definitely can continue to ride that wave and build on it, but it’s so critical.

And so just like it’s such an interesting position that that you have to make it past that to, then be just fine and, you know, have the, the significance of every individual decision matter less.


So, your first Big Choice Is swimfan, Right.

The first leading role, like, you’re going to be on the poster.



I had done an independent movie right after that.

That I like.

I was just thrilled that I could, uh, you know, and I and it totally resonated with me.


And so that was cool.

And then I guess.

Yeah, I guess the, the the like first critical decision really that people would be aware of was swimfan and I was very unsure of it because because I because it just didn’t resonate.

With me and they had offered me first Shiri.


Appleby is roll.


And I was like, I don’t, I don’t even know what to do with this, you know, like but you’re the seductress didn’t swim van.

Is that accurate?


Yes, you could become obsessed with a girls father’s.

I would happen.

No girls.

High school boyfriend before all in high school.


Have a certain charm is like 69.

Well, you did see it.

There is a movie like that from my childhood in the 80s where the girl does like the best face America American Beauty?


Oh, well, there’s that and that’s not even know what I’m I don’t even know what I’m think.


There’s more than one.


So this was Fatal Attraction.

Good old-fashioned Fatal Attraction will attract year among peer.

Yes, in high school.

We are all whatever 1817 were you.

Were you comfortable playing like a sexy figure?


Yeah, it’s funny because I kind of was like willing to take other people’s word for it.

I was like whatever, you know, like if that’s what you see looking at me than great because that’s all that matters, you know, and and your smoking-hot at that it will you still are but you are crazy hot.


So that’s amazing.

You know, I that was the that was the consensus my my Gauge of that would swing wildly.

I’m sorry.

I was like, okay fine.

But, but the Wardrobe designer was fantastic and super collaborative and very Just bolstering of my confidence like yeah, you look amazing.


And this is how we’re going to do it and going for a kind of a retro.

Femme Fatale.

Look, everyone was awesome about it.

And I was just ended up being like I will take your word for it.


Yeah, which is still my philosophy on actor.

Well, I got to say because we work together for six years and um, you’re the easiest person on set and 100-plus episodes that we did.


I think my favorite moment acting in the whole series was you and I outside the restaurant.

I love that.

I do too.

I love it so much, you know and it’s all because of what you did that made it.

So amazing the most genuine affection.


Well unlike you I’m not like a true so I could see the the switch flipped when you became Crosby.

Yeah, alright, but in that moment the line wasn’t what ended up being it wasn’t written what ended up being in the scene.


And I was looking at Erika.

Christensen my little buzz and I said to you, it would be impossible not to love you because that’s how I feel about you.

I’m gonna cry again.

How do you have used a grinding and I started crying.

It was just so truthfully.

How I felt about you that it would not be possible to not love you.


Oh my and that whatever Joel’s going through is his own shit because not loving you is really not an option for anyone.

But that was the sweetest moment for me that I can think of other than like acting with Belle a few times and hit.

It was like really personal stuff, but that was like a very sweet moment out on the sidewalk in Westwood LA and I remember me, you and Larry just being like, on a little Cloud about how lovely it was just to get to say that to someone you really feel that way, about it was amazing and to have it be on that show where they do.


Let us finesse things and or find those things that that what is it that we’re really trying to express here.

And yes Larry completely being on board.

More like well, that’s amazing.

Yeah, do it.

Do that.

Larry drilling literally went off at come over after it.


Take any go.

Well, you can’t do it.

Perfect or so, let’s move on and you be late.

Yeah, or are you say you can’t do it?

Perfect or so one more for the joy of chinnamma?

Oh, yeah.


That was the, yeah, he’s gonna call him.


The last thing I want to talk to you about because it’s one of your other very eccentric, neat things about you is that just out of absolutely nowhere.


You became the Most dedicated cyclist on planet Earth.

Yeah, that was and I mean bicyclist right?

There was a moment in Monaco was excited.

Either day.

We were talking about this.

She didn’t realize that you that when you had a cast on the show, your character had a cat, a big fan of the show.


We should do most cast watch their own shows like we would watch the show.

Well, remember my trick was once, I stopped reading the script, then I watch the show and I really liked it.

I remember that I didn’t do that until the last season, isn’t it different?


It’s yeah, it’s really cool.

It’s so fun and exciting.

And if there’s something that you need to know as a character, someone will tell you, I would be sometimes in this position, right?

Because, like, I’m not reading the whole script because I want to enjoy the show and I’m thinking, well, I need to know my stuff.

So, I’m reading, I’m definitely rehearsing my scenes, but I will have Miss that.


Like someone gave some exit.

Exposition, right.

Like so let’s say Adam and Kristina would have a scene where it’s like, your brothers still not, Talking to you from the blank fight.

So I’ve not read that and then I get there.

We’ll have a fight.

Then I’ll be talking to the guest director and I don’t want admit to him.


I don’t read the scripts.

I’d be like, yeah, this fight boy.

I’m, I’m really mad, huh.

He’s like, yeah, you’re really mad.

I’m like, because man, that upset me.

I’ve been trying to get him to tell me why I’m mad without saying, why am I mad?

Cause I know I should have read it at some point.


Oh my God, Jesus in the oh God.

You know what?

Fucking drive.

You crazy about Mae, Whitman.

When she came over the other day.

You know what her?

I guess I can’t say were like, yeah, I can say what it says, because you won’t really be able to figure it out.

Her license play on her car made Monica, and I want to kill ourselves her fucking license plates.


A Clear Eyes, Full Hearts.

Come on, isn’t that devastating?

That’s it.


Because that’s what we really bonded on over at the boy, Kyle.

Yeah, pilot.

We started watching Friday Night Lights Week, 1 week 2.

And the whole we became so obsessed.


As in ring, you had such a crush on saracen.

Oh, I did.

Oh, yeah, I think we’re gonna try to get a hold of him and I did but I was willing to just say try at least to you whether you’re gonna say you did, I have made certain choices in this conversation, but but I totally got in touch with him and then, and I’ve seen him in recent years and he’s like, Married with Children and I told him, I think I told him like, I’m engaged, he was like, that’s so awesome.


And he was telling me how great married life is about was like, oh, full circle.

It’ll look as good.

Yeah, but maybe just one weekend out in Santa Barbara, wouldn’t hurt anyone.

Maybe some mushrooms, little light, MDMA all of it.

Okay, but how did you get into this bicycling thing?


Because it was really bizarre.

It’s, it’s still so bizarre.

But okay, the sequence was I was over at Ethan’s house.

Our mutual friend, Ethan simply who had lost 200 pounds.


Yeah, I think at that point literally 300.

I think he was 510 in butterfly fact.

Well, he’s 200.

That is cycling.

He continued to lose weight after that, I think because they were so we were so gnarly about it.

But but I hadn’t seen him since, like, 100 pounds.


And so I was just like, okay, what is happening?


He was like a bodybuilder.


So what’s happening?

And he was like, I started ride bikes and he took me to the garage and showed me all of his beautiful expensive.


And I’ll have him on here someday because I think you and I will both agree.


Is the most fascinating person.

I’m planet Earth, right?

Fucking wonderful.

Yeah, magic.

And he, and his whole family extended family.

They’re just the best people.

He mentioned a couple guys that I knew from two completely separate social groups.



Neither one.

Would he have any connection to other eyes and he’s like, do you happen to know him?

Do you have to know him?

We all ride together we go.

Friday’s 6:45 a.m.


I’m out right there.

I know, right?

I know, I was never a morning person, except for work.

Like the only two reasons I would get up, early are for work or, and then cycling.


Yeah, and he said, he said, here’s the deal.

This was a Sunday, right?

He said here’s the deal.


Bike shop tomorrow.

Talk to Matt.


Get yourself a bike and then show up at 6:45 a.m.

On Friday.

And I was like, done and I went and I talked to Matt and I was working.


Yeah, so I had to come after work when I finally I bought a bike and then they had to fit me for it, you know, and I had to buy my Lycra and everything and they stayed open late Thursday night.

In order to get me all hooked up for the Friday morning ride.



And that first morning ride.

I was living right down the block from here.


That way actually.

Yeah and I rode to West Hollywood meet up with everybody at 6:45.

So I gotta be like 5, I mean, I was like so excited and eat and I didn’t know how long it would take to get there and and then we rode 30 miles together and then I rode back home, and I was for the next 48 hours.


Is could not eat enough food.

Like my body was like, what is happening?


Just famished, but obsessed.

And then wrote essentially the next day and the next day, and the next day.

And the next you wrote.

Yes, you wrote every single day, you road to Parenthood, you rode home, but that would have my think.


I drove you home once or twice.

Yeah, I bet that’s true too late or something again.

More just rumor mill stuff for us to meet drop his time.

They spend together alone.

Who is there to witness my corroborate your body changed.


So, radically so quickly.

Like within six months of doing this.

I used to call you.

What a Robert crumb drawing.

You are just like powerful ass and legs amazing.

Yeah, I and it’s funny too because it’s one of those things that like You know, I have a feeling that people when they get plastic surgery or they’re transitioning or whatever, like there’s something.


So just feels so innately.

Like, this is actually who I am.

I mean, obviously, transitioning, but I imagine with plastic surgery and stuff like you see a different face or whatever.

You’re like.

Yeah, but this is who I actually am.

Yes, it felt like that.

It was like, but yeah, but this is who I actually am, right.


I’ve been under all those extra curves.



And and so it was, I mean it was jaw-dropping like it was a really radical transformation.

Now that you didn’t have a great body before him, but you just all of a sudden look like you could kick through a fucking steel door.


I think I spend 90% of our conversations just talking about your cabs and stuff.

When you say I couldn’t get enough of that.

I mean which and they’re crazy still.

And I haven’t ridden a bike and God knows how long that’s where you kind of met Cole through this bike riding.

In your husband, Cole rides, I guess as close as you can ride to being a professional and not do it for a living and ensure.


Well, and not even race to have a gauge against how fast you really are.

But he, he definitely was deeper into it than I was.

Yes, and for many, many years.

Yeah, for way longer than I have been.


If I could, I mean, it’s embarrassing to even like, try to claim.

It now because it’s been a long time.

Yeah, and it’s something you want to go back to it is I definitely it was an addiction right?

Like you recognize it as.

Oh, yeah.

I don’t know if I would have time for that addiction, right?


It’s yeah, absolutely.

Because Ethan to fell out of it and then we’ll go back and forth, but it’s like a whole thing.

It’s like whole thing.

It’s really hard to like, can’t go half-assed.

Yeah, because also, you have a memory of the level of skill and Isn’t that you once had so to try and engage on a lower level is just not fun.


It’s just demeaning.

Yeah, I mean, I, the last ride that I went on was four months ago.

And then before that, it had been at least that long, okay, and I was really glad that I didn’t just die on the ride.


That I went that I went on a few months ago because I was already a couple of months pregnant and I was like, I haven’t read My bike and forever, but my buddies that I went with were like, don’t worry.

We’re going to take it easy.

It’s gonna be fine.

I did 50 miles and it was, it was okay, you know, I was like, all right.


Nice little light job.

So easy to take it even 50.


Now when you crash what happened, you weren’t you weren’t, I’m dying to.

I’ve been dying to ask you this question for three years and I always forget to ask.

Yeah, I see you, but you cry somewhere in Malibu, right?


Actually, it was on Mandeville Canyon, which is kind of notorious for being dead sunset.



What is that?

Brent, Brent would ya in between Brentwood and Palisades?

Yeah, so over there.

We’re coming down that hill, right?


And a steep hill.

Yeah, I mean, yeah.

Yeah at the end it is it was not even, you can get a lot of speed going.

And so there was a little clump of us little cluster of Us, coming down this hill and this car in front of us, I guess.

Slammed on their brakes or was just going slower or something, huh?


And so fully operator error on my part.

If I in Motocross, we say you ran out of talent.

There you go.

I fully just ran out of talent if I had.

I like that because it’s not that he’s not the weather conditions, not the road conditions, the bikes perfectly fine, but I if I had just been able to keep my cool.


Half a second longer, uh-huh.

And not Grab A Fistful of breaks.



I’m sure you can relate.

There’s it was just too much and front and washed out.

No back wheel locked up and was all of a sudden here.

Okay, so like okay.



It’s right there.

So then I think I think I high-sided and bounced and then rolled so like it went out from under me and then when I went over landed on my right wrist, that’s what broke.

And then I tumbled down the hill and I was like, I’m fine.


And I was like, no, I don’t think so.




Your I’ve been in many crashes and I always leave slept up.

I’m fine.

Many times been emergency room an hour later God, but, um, here’s the thing.

I’ve been dying to ask you.

So I knew that part of the story.


Yeah, but then someone told me that months after that crash.

I can’t remember what friends like.

Hey, man.

I think I saw your sister on TV.

Like on Mandeville Canyon with a few other people just kind of Milling around on the street and I was like, did you go back to the crash site?



So this is real.

This is true.

Oh my love that.

Oh my goodness.

It’s and then here’s where I took it in my fantasy.

Yeah, tell me how inaccurate I love it.

I’m familiar with this concept from Dianetics called engrams, right.


And I’ll tell you, my laypersons understanding of engrams.

Okay, my even saying that part, right?

Yeah, you are and G.

So, the example, I believe in the book is a woman’s in a house, an intruder comes in.

She gets raped.

She was in the middle of doing dishes.

This is his traumatic terrible experience.


And then for the rest of her life, without her really, having any awareness of it when she sees drapes flapping In The Wind that triggers.

Raises our anxiety when she hears, running water.

That triggers her anxiety, when she sees just an open door that no one shut that triggers anxiety.

So that she has linked.


All these things in her environment to this trauma that happened to her and that those things are almost.

Now, permanently in her as traumatic, even though, obviously, drapes blowing and is not traumatic and vice versa.

And that the goal is to deconstruct an engram into disattach all these things you’ve put on to this trauma.


Do is that an accurate that It’s that’s pretty accurate.

Yeah, because everything that everything that occurred at that time, everything that you took in time, yes were part of that and are embedded.

We logically associated with that.



And then the only thing you have to do is examine all of it closely enough that it no longer has any power and then you’re fine to leave the drapes blowing, right?

So is that what happened?

Did you go back to that site to unplug?


Certain things you may have accidentally connected with the experience.

Basically it.

No, but it is a Scientology thing but it is so so here’s our satisfaction.

So the way that you would address the, the mental aspect of it and those associations is just sitting in a room with someone else who is trained in Dianetics and they take you back and you re-experience it and fill out as many details as yeah, and then once it all is completely clear to you.



It’s like it’s like if you were hypnotized and told every time I say apple you have to scratch your neck, but as soon as someone tells you no, you were just hypnotized to scratch your neck.

Every time I say apple menu like, oh fine.

You don’t have to anymore.

All right, that’s that’s all it is.

Yes, you’re aware of.


It has no power anymore.

But the physical aspect of it is that the body can kind of go through a similar process of retaining that trauma.

And then So in re-experiencing that gently not to reinjure yourself, huh?


You can kind of erase that and let it heal better.

Oh, really?

So you in like as we’d say in acting you did like a half speed rehearsal on the crash.

Yeah, you did.

I did which was not easy because the first of all, I had to figure out what the hell.

It happened.


Yeah, and then I had to figure out how to do it again, which is like super awkward.

Like, okay, so I felt this way and then I felt Over the bike climb over this way, but do it enough times that all of a sudden there is some relief.

They’re just some sense of relief and like, you experienced that.


Yeah, and I’m just like, yeah, I took a while.

So you did this more than one time.

Oh, no, it was all at like over the course of maybe an hour or whatever.

Okay, so but I did kind of reenact the accident more than one time.


Okay, and then the folks that are there, what are they there to do to make sure?


I don’t get hit by a car in the meantime.

Oh, oh, okay.

So you’re kind of on your own.

As far as reenacting the trauma and everything.

Yeah, I mean you could have somebody if you want.

You could have somebody.

Tell you.

Okay, let’s start at the beginning or whatever, but you basically would go through it.

I mean, it’s much more.


It’s interesting because it’s such a complicated.

Injury to normally like if you stubbed your toe or whatever you’re like.

Oh that’s a I could be equal to a plus b equals c.

Yeah, I could just stubbed my toe.

Yeah, more gently several times.


It’ll hurt worse at first and then, it’ll go away.

Okay, finally, it takes 10 seconds and it’s over and you don’t need anybody’s help or whatever, but being that it was such a complicated situation.

I had like my mom out there asking people not to hit me in the meantime.

Like, you just wait a second.


I can you get my friend mine.

Actually been in a traffic jam.

You create a probably probably the neighborhood is will not leave.

Yeah, clearly this person couldn’t have like driven by you at 40 and noticed it was you and all this.

No, they probably saw me right up close real slow and and me like acting out a bicycle accident.


And are you self-conscious while this is happening?

Are you don’t give a flying fuck?

I mean somewhere in the middle, like part of me is totally aware that it looks bizarre.

Yeah, like yeah.

I mean, I don’t know people don’t know what I’m doing, but it’s Totally worth doing so I don’t care.




You know, I have sorry Attic arthritis, super sexy disease.

I’ve tried every single thing under the sun and I mean everything.

I’ve been frozen, I’ve had stem cells, put in my bris.

I’ve had PRP.

I’ve had, you know, every kind of Western medicine therapy and then Kristen was like you’re going to an RV to cleanse for a week.


Yeah, and I’m like, yeah, I don’t believe in that all, but I’ll go on one second while old scientist wouldn’t I fuck?

Try every conceivable solution to this thing and I was on a table getting it and amano’s like, how did I end up here?

What is going on?

There’s a stranger pumping my ass full of coffee, but fuck it.


I did it.

I don’t care, didn’t it didn’t shatter my identity to have some coffee enemas.

Hey, look, I’ll try any results oriented.

I like it.

So, is there anything?

What do you know what you’re doing?


You’re just having a baby next.

That’s what your focus on.

I’m having a baby next.

I got to do a movie that’s going.


Come out at some point, uh-huh called Clover 0, which is not Cloverfield.

No, no Clover.

Okay. 0 really?

I hope people are confused though.

That’s a huge movie Cloverfield.

I’m in this movie Clover blank.

It’s like, it’s a mafia comedy.


It’s like, Goodfellas is a comedy, right?


What’s up?

Yeah, so it’s, it’s a comedy in that vein where it’s very violent, but it’s a comedy, great, and Dark, but it’s a comedy.

And are you doing any TV?

You’ll eat.


No, I want.

No, I’m feeling right with kids, isn’t it?

So appealing because you’re at home.

And what if I were?

I mean if I had the opportunity to Parenthood six years of Parenthood right now, that would do that.

I’d do 100 Years of Parenthood.

Yeah, but I wanna get paid a little more but, you know, still.


But yeah, I don’t, it’s so interesting, you know, that phenomena were talking about with pleasing, the director and the producers in the writer and then and all the higher-ups in that that hole.

Phenomenon is the worst in network television.

There’s so many cooks in the kitchen and for Parenthood, we didn’t even have that.


No, but it’s really, it’s a real tough game.

And when they get it, right, they get it right.

And when they don’t, they don’t.

And so I’ve been, I’ve been trying to play that game and it just hasn’t been working out for me and I’ve just been like, yeah.

Well one thing that’s unique about film which is so great.


Is you go away.

You’re in Camp for three months.

No one knows if it’s good or bad because As fuck.

It’s not going to be edited for another six months.


So we were all just working under the assumption that you’re making Citizen Kane and that’s really liberating and fun.

But when you’re on the show, man that thing starts coming out and you start realizing I’m in a stinker or I’m in something great.


But but you get the proof and now people start panicking around you.

And now the whole environment, right?

Becomes scared and trying to save something, as opposed to create something.

That’s all scary.

Yeah, and are you going to get canceled, which never happens in the movie and also, Ratings is so specific.


Such a weird factor in everybody’s lives and we never had great ratings anyway, so so it was like, well, they’re not going to take you off the air.

That was always were like, well, we get to keep making art.

Oh, okay, good.


Well, I love you.


Tell people how to get a get a follow you on Instagram and Twitter.

What are your handles?

I love you and my Instagram is.

Erika Christensen, okay.

Well, by the way, I can’t spell that.


Yeah, it’s essien not son.


I would think son the day.

It’s still is son, you know, the meaning, but it’s, yeah, it’s Danish.

Fucking Danes.

Hey, what are you gonna do?

They do not want to know at the end of their now is also not Christians and it’s CHR is teh Iain.





Good luck spelling.

Hey Google will figure it out.

Yeah, Google her.

Go just Swimfan and buckle up guys.

Erica’s with a queso, their dad to.


Hey, in case the last name didn’t fuck you up at first.

Well, I adore you.

Thank you for helping me assemble the whole Parenthood.

We’re slowly chipping, our way through the, the most loving cast on to my knowledge.

What I realized at a certain point that I was taking us for granted.


I was just like everybody’s brilliant at their job.

So there’s no Basis of comparison.

Everybody’s brilliant on this show.

Uh-huh kids a man of riches yet exist was just like and everybody’s great to each other.

Like oh it’s not always like this, but hey, but it is right now and it was glorious.


I made a lot of mistakes.

That’s the one of the few.

I didn’t make.

I was like, this is having this is heaven on Earth for days a week.

Say what?

You want eight hours.

Are you love everyone?

Fucking get real?

When does that happen?

If we could just do it again?

Yeah, there’s that.


I love you.

For real.

This time.

Stay tuned.

If you’d like to hear my good friend and producer, Monica Patman point out, the many errors and the podcast, you just heard.


Walk us through the errors.



I will Erica was a little hazy on when swimfan came out.

Mmm came out in August of 2002.


I was only a baby your your what has four year old baby.



Tiny four-year-old spit up.

You said that when punked came out, a lot of they were pretty far into That 70s Show seasons wise when you were invited.


And then you had fun there and you met all those people, right?

And punk C’Mon 2003, which was season 6 of That 70s Show.

So, you were right.

Okay, good, good.

You are a well-oiled machine.

By the time I started, although we started hanging out when we shot the pilot and the pilot was delayed for a year because of Lawsuit blah, blah, blah, so, maybe I started going there around season 4 5.


But regardless, they were, they were in their stride.

They had nice cars.

They had renegotiate, they knew how to party.

She said that she thought they shot traffic between two seasons 1 and 2 of That 70s Show and traffic came out in 2008, which was season 2.



So yes, they must have shot between those two seasons, right?

Yeah, so she was right.

She had a good memory.


Yeah, she really she is Crystal Clear.

Yep, talking about wanting to maintain her clearly and she is very Crystal Clear.

Yeah, it was funny.



Do not you’re not naturally drawn to Scientology.

Is that weird?


I’m not drawn to Scientology.

I’m not going to become a Scientologist.


But there are many things that she said that I was like, I really get it.


What she’s saying?


And I understand, I understand some of the drawers, especially when she was talking about clearing words, right?

I was like, that’s great.

We should all probably be clearing words.

Literally and so you what you are having is the experience.


I’ve been having now for about 12 years, which is I have a lot of personal friends who are scientologists.

So that was probably the first person you around talking about scientology.



And looking at the human being and going.

Well, I mean, yeah, there’s maybe there were slaves or whatever.

I don’t know.

But this person I’m looking at is very clear is very bright and is very happy.


So you gotta put that in, you know, into the stew.


It’s got to go into this.

Do with all the other elements.



I agree, which I think I was honest about right.

I told her I read going clearing all.

Yeah, read the crew, the critical stuff and the positive stuff.



I know.

It’s a weird dilemma, right?

Because let’s say you are a part of an organization that’s doing wonderful things for you.

Of course, you’re going to keep doing that and you’re going to defend it and you’re probably not going to look too hard.


At some of the, why would you, why would you exactly happy and feeling self-actualized to you?

This thing’s working.

I tried to parallel with a a and yeah, I totally sympathize with people who think it’s a cult.

Yeah, and maybe they’ve lost.

You know, they’ve had loved ones who got weird after they joined it.


Yeah, my point kind of was I don’t mind it in acknowledging that I also don’t mind reading criticism of.

Right, you know, I guess though.

It’s it’s a little different with a a maybe because I’m some of the critique of Scientology is really like they are doing criminal criminal stuff.



I guarantee you in the history of A since 1930, there have been sponsors who have molested sponsees.

I bet there are people have Valley abusing their their their heightened position in the program that seems more individual and I wasn’t supposed to institutional.


Yeah, so I guess it is a dilemma.

Like, how if something’s working for you?

But potentially is causing harm to other people to other people.

How much is it?

I mean, I don’t know the answer to that.

I really don’t, but it’s interesting.


Here’s the great thing.

We all get to do our own thing.

You get to pick whatever thing you’re going to be interested in.

Yeah, it’s your prerogative and it’s great because you’re free to do that.


Well, I like that.

You are.

But I don’t think we should Outlaw anything to you.


I mean, yeah, I shouldn’t Outlaw.

The A local religion or yeah, it just everything becomes.

So fine line, right?

Because, no, I wish we can’t.

We should not and cannot outline any religions and we shouldn’t.


But I don’t want to use this example because it’s like the stoop.

It’s such a, it’s such an extreme.

I don’t even want to use it, but I can’t think of a less extreme one the Nazi party.

What if there are people who are getting tons of fulfillment out of that?


Not engaging in any of the The Killing right or anti-Semitism how you see?

It’s still that has to stop.


That’s it.

As you as you owned.


That’s a pretty extreme example, there’s a there’s some extreme.

There’s some extreme stuff being said about scientology.

No, but to go back to our favorite documentary.

Wild Wild Country.

Hmm, what I did there will a moment for me.

That was a good warning sign for myself.


I was at the very end of the documentary.

There is a guy in Antelope basically bragging that he was never outsmarted by the rajneeshees and that they they were following a false prophet and the whole thing was exposed to have nefarious goals with poisoning.


The people in the Dells, blah blah blah.

He felt very Victorious and he felt very validated, but then I just looked at that guy, look at that guy in his life and how much joy was in it.

And what is maybe he’ll ‘The level was versus these people who had been duped, who are dancing and fucking and are thin and are eating well and are living this great, Beautiful Life.



The result of which you can get really hung up in what the process by which Bears these results.

You can start tearing apart this and finding holes and you could maybe miss the bigger picture of like, well, I got to pick one life.

I’m living at 65 years old.


I’m going to pick that lawyer in the documentary, not the guy who was right because I often think who I’m Right, I think intellectually.

I proved my point but then the results of me being right?

Might be a shitty life.

That’s worth considering.

Yeah, it’s worth considering.


I mean that translates to Christianity to.

Yeah, absolutely, which you are not.

I’m pretty critical.

Yeah, but I’m Chris.

Yes, but to be specific about what I’m critical about is that I am I’m critical of patriarchal hierarchies, but you’re also critical of in the belief.


In what you presume to be.

Totally unbelievable.

Thanks, huh.

Preposterous ideas.

Well, I also, I think, I think that one of the things that bothers me is, I think it’s laziness and a total lack of belief in our own powers and competence to think that a book that was written by people. 5,000 years ago, who thought the Earth was flat was that that we should continue for the all of I mean to follow what they knew that there were that there’s no progression that there’s no more understanding that.


You’re locked into this text.

You’re living your life based on a text that was written with very limited, knowledge of how the physical world works.

Yeah, that’s troubling to me.

That’s, I’m concerned about that.

I also, I get a little nervous when people I cherish our constitution, but I do not Revere it as the most perfect thing that’s ever been written in that.


It should never evolve.

Of to acknowledge new information.

I think.

Reverie for a text is a little dangerous.

Right, but it’s all reverie for a text reverie.

For a person wrote, It’s all that.

Yeah, it’s all just picking and a token to worship.


And if in keeping with this conversation, if most people are their lives are better because they adhered to the Bible and they trust and they believe the point Ryan and Amy, I’ll say all that stuff.

I just said and then I look at Ryan and Amy who I think are two of the most perfect people I’ve ever met in my life.


They’re living the best most wholesome.

Wonderful Life.

There were the best parents.

They’re fun.

They’re everything, and it is 100% grounded in them being Christians.

That is really the driving force for that.

So I acknowledge that.

Yeah, who’s laughing?



That I said?

Oh, well, your book thinks the world was flat and then runs like yeah, great.

I’m an awesome dad and I’m a great dude and you’re, you know, so yeah, so I acknowledge that.

Well, it also isn’t It doesn’t mean you can’t be those things without it either, correct, but it just for them, them happens to be.



Yeah, really great results.

And then there’s people who, you know, they’re getting their babies bit by a rattlesnake because that’s how you cure them according to their texts.

So as the bad version, right?

Okay, so, so you talked about Wilmer Valderrama.


Great job pronouncing his name.

Thank you.

And City and what-a-light he is.

And then you also talked about his sedan sing with his sister.

And you you could not recall the name of the dance.

I see I think Eric and I both suggested salsa and I don’t know what he did because I wasn’t there and he’s from Venezuela, right?


Yes, Venezuela.

He’s from Venezuela and the I’m probably going to pronounce this wrong.


Horror Oppo.

Geraldo Rivera is the national dance of Ayla and it originated in Spain and it consists of 36 steps and it’s a dance for couples, so it might have been what he was doing.


It’s fucking beautiful.

Whatever it was.

You can call by any name.

What is it?

What’s the Shakespearean thing was something by any name, is still a something.

Yeah, I can’t By Any Other Name.

A rose, a rose by A Rose.


By Any Other Name still smells as sweet.

Oh, rose by any other name would smell as sweet.


Okay, I’ll just stop is called the poop flower.

And so and you were introduced to the Rose as the poop flower.


You might your brain actually might Boggle.

The sent you might you might file at the wrong cabinet or night, but it shouldn’t.

It does it does.

Is not it smells the same objective Lee, it smells.



So you said one of the five pillars of Islam is donations.


Yeah, making.


Is that, what it’s called charity.

Charity is probably the one you’re referring to Faith prayer, charity, fasting, and pilgrimage to Mecca.

Mhm, which I’m done twice, but according to the Quran, I guess the charity.


Portion has to be distributed in the community from which it was taken.

So, it’s interesting, they take it.

And then they give it.

Well, it’s not donation.

It’s charity, right.

But what’s interesting about that?

So it’s supposed to go to the community from, which it was, it was taken or mind, because I’m reading this book called Shadow, something.


I’m listening to it on Audible, that is about the cia’s operation in Afghanistan to fight back from the Soviet invasion.

Ian, uh-huh, and we were funding a ton of the mujahideen’s that were fighting, but also Saudi Arabia was, funding a ton of that.


And the reason it was so easy or at least, says this book, it was so easy to get money from Saudi Arabia, is that it is a pillar of Islam.

So they are, they are very charitable.

And so they were very quick to donate lots and lots of money to the Afghans to help fight off the so.



Umm, it’s, you know, very institutionalized in there called.


It’s Part of it charity, but it was leaving.

That’s only thing.

I guess.

I was see pointing out that the money was in Saudi Arabia that might be additional.

It might just be like I will do whatever to Foster this.


These ideas.

I guess, I guess.

But the of the pillars five pill donations is now one charity.

Yeah, that’s what I mean.


It’s not the same donations to the church is different than charity to the community.


Oh, I got I see what you’re saying now.

Yes, because tithing is you give 10% of your income to the church.


I got you in suits to help the church.

Well, no, but then the church distributes that they have all sorts of programs for kids and feeding people and they run.


They, you know, yeah, I don’t think the assumption is that you.

Well, although the Catholic Church.

They have to do a lot of it because you’ve ever been at the Vatican.

Yeah, but I do think the premise is they’re going to redistribute it.


You don’t think so?


Yeah, okay.


When she talked about clearing words as I mentioned earlier and she said, most words are Latin, which is pretty clear.


But 80% of the entries in any English.

Dictionary are borrowed mainly from Latin over 60% of all English words have Greek or Latin roots in the vocabulary of the sciences and Technology.

The figure Rises to over 90% those crazy the genus and species names are always so, yeah at me.


Are there hard to remember?

Almost say p.

Yeah, you like that one.

How many levels does Scientology have 15 levels?

Oh, but the church only offers eight.

That’s interesting.


Yeah, where’d you get the other seven?

Maybe you can again, as I said, 15, I subtracted. 8, okay.

Okay, so she said, going clear.

Ear isn’t available in all of all countries because they have stricter, libel laws under English and Welsh law.


The burden of proof, in defamation cases, resist exclusively on the defendant, which means that if someone Sue’s you, it’s up to you to prove.

It’s true.

Ah, does that mean that books not available in England?


Oh, really?

Isn’t know.

Yeah, cool.

But I mean, cool and that, she was right.


Oh, yeah.

She’s right.

Yeah, definitely.

Oh, I haven’t asked you this before.

I wish you could tell.

List, the name of the romantic hotel with the great grilled cheese because I’m sure people want to go there.

I want to.

Yeah, it’s it’s the Carmel Valley Ranch.


What a great grilled cheese.

I want that right now.

Yeah, I’ll take you on a Lover’s Retreat there and walk it’ll be very similar to Erica nice experience.

Because many people be like, oh God, they do a podcast together.

Now, they’re checking into one a lot of things will.

Wow, your brain.


It’ll be worth it for the girl.

Add cheese because I want that 100%.

Even if I get divorced totally worth it.

The grilled cheeses that good.

How many Cheese’s in that grilled cheese?

I don’t think it’s a, it’s a bunch of different cheeses that makes it so good.


It is the broken a toe bread.

The way the bread is the quality of the bread away.

They cooked to Perfection and I’ve had a dozen there and they’ve all been cooked to absolute perfection.

I hope they give me like a free stay there and a free grilled cheese out of talking about.

Do you think they’ll post mate?


From Carmel and I bet it won’t be that crispy by God.

I wish Postmates sponsored us.

It’s five hours and 12 minutes away by car right now.


So if we order it, now will have by dinner, we could be eating there at 7:40 tonight.

Then the barring, any traffic really want that.


I’ve been thinking about it ever.

Since you said it.

I’ll make that dream come true.


I’m going to pledge that I can do it.

You refer to going to Seth’s wedding a lot in this and that’s Seth Green, correct?

Yes, not Seth MacFarlane to the bird higher or Seth Rogen?


Seth Meyers Myers.

Well, almost, at the end.

There are a lot of sets that could have been really truthfully, could have been Seth.

Avett actually, I think originally, when you were telling the story, I thought it was sets because you went to Seth Avett sweating.


I did in North Carolina with Lincoln.

So I thought maybe she also knew Seth Avett and that’s what It’s Seth Green.

Yeah, lovely.

Sell screen itself, green.

Seth Green.

So we’ve had on this podcast before and is a delight.

I think he’s if I had to rank favorite episodes.


He was definitely in the top.

Three from the feedback.

I’ve gotten.

It’s a good one.


You pronounced it Ginkgo Balboa.

Great, ginkgo biloba.


Yeah, just so you can you say it that’s enough of you.


Try to say it, ginkgo biloba.

Yeah, you said it?

I did like that version of it.

You like Balboa.

Absolutely Rocky.

Balboa Balboa Island.

There’s a lot of great, Balboa’s, ginkgo biloba, Vietnam.


You did.

That’s not what it means.

Yes, Vietnamese.

Yeah there.



I don’t know.

I just really pray that no one takes that as like me having a lower opinion or no, fury your opinion.

How can anyone think that it’s just Well, because they go like you can’t take take the time to learn how to say the damn name, right?


And that’s a, that’s a, that’s a good complaint.

But I just have, I have limitations as a display.

All we all have limitations.

All right, but we isolated for you.

What’s happening, right?

You’re mixing the m and the N.

Which again is I think is is yeah.


Fall the dyslexic I do too, but maybe the Vietnamese.



Okay, everyone happy.

Things really took a turn.

I got defensive.

Yeah, she mentions it.


Vitamin B1, right?

Alcohol depletes vitamin B1 that you get nightmares.

This is what she said.

So I did read that.


However, I will be really honest.

I didn’t read it in any article that I trusted.




I looked a lot.

And there were a lot there were a handful of articles about that.


But I didn’t recognize the validity of any of these fancy my quality sources crap so I could not really I can’t cry.


Can’t corroborate that.

Okay statement or dispel it, correct?

Yeah, but I did find that I do trust thiamine, which is vitamin B1.


Helps decrease the risk.


Symptoms of a specific brain disorder called Wernicke Korsakoff.

I’m definitely saying that wrong.

Wks, okay, that’s what it is.

And yeah, it’s related to low levels of thiamine.


And what what are the symptoms of that?

Do I have it?

I don’t know, but it is often.

It is often seen in alcoholics bad dreams.

I could not find okay, III, minor.

If I have it from being an alcoholic between 30 percent, 80 percent of Alcoholics are believed to have a thiamine deficiency.


Well, to me, that’s pretty conclusive evidence.

I know you couldn’t find anything.

No, not in the nightmares.

Well, the nightmares.

Okay, but by the way, I totally believed her because when I did a bunch of opiates, I would have the craziest fucking Dreams.

They’re so weird.

And they be violent and right as I’m trying to fall asleep.


I’m just having images in.

That I’ve never had.

Yeah, but that could also just be the drug, right?

Well, but the drug would do something it.

Would it would alter my chemistry in a way that would create that.

So there’s some chemical is being depleted or blocked or yeah, inhibited from uploading or whatever.


Yeah, right.

We just don’t know what it is or where she does or should I I did some that’s my job here, right now.

You do great.

So good job.


Good job.

We talked about Erica’s brothers, and I asked if they were Twins and I’m embarrassed that, I ask that.



Because we had already established that they were 30.

Let’s say they were both 30 well with it was like, how old are they?

30 ra so obviously they’re twins.

I just didn’t put two and two together.

It’s I imagine it’s conceivable.


That one brother could be born on January first and then a second baby could come along by December 30.

Would be so hard to do because generally speaking.

Well, I guess you’re right.

It depends because because generally speaking you can’t get pregnant if you’re breastfeeding.


All right.

I don’t know that.

That’s true.

Let’s have a think it’s true.

Okay, but not that you might not breastfeed.

That’s right.

So, it could happen.



But really, I should just know they were twins.

We talked about Matt saracen and that is put in.



Saracen is a character on Friday Night, Lights played by Zach Gilford.

Yeah, total babe.

Great actor.

I use my favorite.

He was more than Reagan’s way more God.

I like you.

I like you have a really specific.

You know what?


Yeah, Riggins is way too.


He did not have his shit together.

OK, he’s scared.

You didn’t scare me.

I would be so annoyed if I was in a relationship with him, right?

Because he just couldn’t figure out how to do the right thing.


I just he’s like his face and hair couldn’t get you through.

That doesn’t mat that.


We talked about this.

So often those things just personality Trump’s it so much as hear some was taking care of his grandmother.

I mean, he was so nice and very, Very kind to his girlfriend.

The tailored child.

What was her name?





Coach coach to use daughter.

Yeah, Tammy and coach’s daughter.


We’re going to name any way.

He is a superior love for you.


I look at Riggins and I go, he’s the rebel.


I’m always attracted to the rebel.

This guy’s taking the rules, and he flushed him right down the toilet.

Let’s watch him.

Go, please.


He’s like, you know, drunk on the cow missing class nothing about that is appealing.


And I know that people are really attracted to the rebel like they are.

That’s yeah, that’s without a cause.

But in life are they like maybe at first at first?

Yes, but then once you have to start dealing with the real-life shit that comes along with it.


Yeah, that’s not fun or interesting.

I Agree, it’s not sustainable.

What you want is the rebel.

The reformed Rubble.


That’s right.

But look, I was a rebel who was also graduated college, magna cum.



Like you would have been living with me.


I’ll be drunk on the couch and I’d miss a few days.

But I was also crushing it something.

I wasn’t that’s different.

He wasn’t.

He wasn’t right?

Yeah, but you could be a rebel who’s also accumulating some accomplishments.

I wonder if I knew you back then, what I would have thought me too.


It’s just a little look.

I did a little chaotic.

We can reverse-engineer it a little bit.

It’d be like, I think a good test of, that would be.

If the people who liked me back then now I have no relationship with because I’m a different person.

So the fact that Nate has been my best friend through the whole thing and Aaron and Scotty.


Yes, right.

I think that says a little bit.


And the thing you would have hated about me.

I think would have been so drinking related as much as I would get drunk.

And then my ego would need validation.

Nation Non-Stop and I would steer conversations in directions that you would end up having to give me a compliment.


And it was just disgusting that part of me.

Yeah, I think is the most Dreadful that was that I’m sure Nate witnessed a lot and somehow got through and Scotty and all these people.

Yeah, and I think I could have lived with that.

You think.

So, it’s more the chaos.


That makes me a little.

I would be, I would be, I guess you’re right.

I would be afraid of that.



You called Erica.

You like and turned to a Robert crumb drawing.

I say that with peace and love and peace and love.

That was like that’s a compliment from my aesthetic by the way.



Yeah, and he was a cartoonist, an amazing documentary that I say it and you didn’t.

But you cannot get David Lynch produce a documentary called crumb.

God crime 1994.

That’s just awesome.

It’s in my top 5 documentaries of all time.


Yeah, and it is a troubled person.

He what he Very interesting human being.

He has two brothers that are super fascinating.

They’re all equally weird Krug.

There’s an example, they all have this really weird recipe.

That was super destructive in two out of the three of them.

He somehow kept it on the rails enough to be the most brilliant cartoonist of all time.


Yeah, but I encourage people to look up what that means.

Or maybe I’ll post it.

He was obsessed with the Amazonian.

Like the conventional Amazonian woman.

Like Hugh Jass, huge tits.

He was always tiny in the drawings, the women.


He be caught between their butt cheeks or caught between their boots.


Or you just love to being emasculated by these big powerful.


Buxom me women and he talks a lot about it in the documentary.

It’s very fascinating.



Check it out.

Oh, I have a correction.


So in the Marc Maron episode, I said the Golden Bears, were the WNBA team and a lot of people have told me that that’s Wrecked.


That they that’s Berkeley’s team.


Yeah, and the WNBA team is the LA Sparks, right?

So correction.


I made that mistake, everyone, but I’m only human and I’m glad that you corrected me.

I’m happy to be corrected and I still have not figured out what you changed your mind on.


Remember, we were in the car and you, it’s you.

I was a death penalty.


We were in the car and I said, oh, that’s something you changed your mind on.

And we lacked couldn’t remember, then we brought it up on the podcast and said, and said, you’ll probably remember by the fact check.


And I still don’t because it was so stupid.

It was like, I decided I liked dark chocolate.

Yeah, something silly and I’ll never will never know the world will never know.

The other thing that we’re hearing a lot of is that is the last week.

You said, so, hey, I’m not going to go into detail about CTE because I did it in the Joe Joe McGill fact-checking.


Of course, that’s the fact Jack.

That is long with missing.

So, we’ve decided that instead of re-recording it.

We’re just going to double down.

And from now on, we’re going to go.

If you want to hear Dax have sex with a pumpkin, just check out the Joel McHale fact-check.

That’s where we recorded it.



So that’s going to be The Dumping Ground for us.

Exactly of anything.

We’re too lazy to do.

We’ll just say, just just see the Joel McHale fact.

Yeah, correct.


I love you.


Love you.

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