Rituals - E4 • Your Future’s In These Cards


A lot of people love to have answers or reassurance, or just a sense of foresight when it comes to their lives.

I personally crave reassurance wherever I can get it.

So quietly.

I’m in this camp and Taro is a way to get that in some ways.

I agree.


And I am 110% on board for this episode.

I cannot wait to learn more about tarot.

I’ve been wanting to for a long.


All right, let’s go.


Well, I think what might surprise people to learn though.

Is that Taro started as a game, huh?

This ain’t your average hoop and stick but it was a pretty, pretty fun game.


And now it’s a very personal experience.

I’m very surprised by that.

I did not know.

I thought it was always like a spiritual tool.

I did not realize it was a game and now I double want to know all about it.

And now all of a sudden the competitive person and you is like ready to Plate, are I’m ready to go.


I’m ready.

In actually.


Hi, everyone, and welcome to rituals a Spotify original from podcast.

I’m M Schultz and I’m Christine cheever.

And every week, we’ll explore the evolution of spiritualism and the Occult through stories practices and the impact on Modern culture.

I cannot wait to talk some of the story with you.



I know both of us are big fans of Taro even if our I guess level of knowledge or expertise is kind of always waxing and waning, but fluctuating fluctuating it.

Were to come up organically at a party though.

I would certainly gravitate toward that group of people.


I think agreed.

And if it were a Tarot party you and I would probably be hosting the tarot card.

Let’s be real.

And we would invite all of them were experienced people to, like do it.

So, I would be asking labor of our guests 100%.

We’ve both been big on Taro gifting tarot decks to each other or, you know, I know there’s always like tchotchkes with Taro pictures on it, things like that.


I’ve always they always come up on my feed.

You have your one laptop sticker.

I love that has the coffee on it or something.

Oh, yes.

I have some Etsy shops that I love.

Are some yeah, red bubble.

And that kind of thing that make Taro designs just for Decor.

So I have the coffee.


I have the wine.

I once gave Ava the margarita.

So there’s a lot.

You could do a lot with Taro.

I feel like there’s a there’s a range of like items you could get for a chair because I certainly fall into the campy novelty tchotchke side, which is probably Really embarrassing and Tarot world, but then there’s also certain Decks that do different things.


I mean, it’s it really runs the gamut.

So I love it all.

Let’s crack into it.


For as often as we talked about Tara, we mentioned all the time in our personal lives on, and that’s why we drink, but I don’t think we’ve ever really gone in depth about it together.

Do you have a an opinion about tarot?

I don’t think I’ve ever asked it.

You know, that’s a good question.


I’ve never really asked myself, except I do know that I feel the same way.

I feel the same Max.

I think you and I have briefly.

Like talked about this in that we’re both really fascinated by Taro and we’re both really interested in it.

But we’ve never really put the energy and time.

It takes to really dig deep and learn it.


Maybe I’m waiting on the next type of fixation to do that.

I’m not sure preach.

I like first of all, it’s a great way to put it that like I haven’t asked myself because I think I just knew immediately.

I was on board.

Yeah, and I also knew I didn’t know a lot about it, but I knew I was like team.


Let’s do Do whatever you want.

Like, I don’t know, the art of Terror at all.

I’ve tried to learn what all the cards mean and even on a very Elementary level.

So people out there with more expertise.

I think they would think that it’s like a rudimentary Basics.

It overwhelms me.


I tried to her whelming.

Yeah, I’ve tried to commit and again like you said, I would love to I would love for my hyper fixations to kick in at any moment and then I could fully dedicate myself to.


I actually bought my first Tarot deck.

When I was, I think like 13, I saved up my money and when To a local bookstore and bought it.


Oh and so I have that original one.

It was like a rider-waite deck but I yeah, since I’ve collected them I have so many of them and I’m like slightly ashamed because I have so many of them and I’m like, I really should take the time to sit down and actually do more than just cursory card reading.


So maybe maybe that’s what this episode will inspire me to do.

I feel like half the things you just said, I could also apply to my Pokemon card collection where it’s like I just have so many of them.

M, so many decks, I don’t know what to do with them.

But I just pick a cursory look as fine every day.

Where do you stand on how accurate tarot cards are?


I mean, I know neither of us have a lot of experience.

But yeah, I mean, I’m a very, I’m a big believer in energy and I feel that, you know, what, you put into it is what you get out of it.

And I think I’ve had a few tarot readings that have really changed my perspective, and we’re really accurate.


And I think that’s what it boils down to is, you know, it’s not an exact science.


But each card, you know, means something to the person reading into the person being read, actually, weirdly this kind of just occurred to me.

I don’t know how this didn’t occur to me.

I was scrolling through Tick, Tock, as I got ready for this recording, probably an hour ago and all of a sudden it was like, on my screen.


This, this woman was reading tarot, and she said, if this is on your for you page that you were meant to see this today and I want to give you a three card spread and she read my spread and of course, it said it was what you want, people to see you as what people do.

See you as, and you know what?

You’re going through right now, and number two, what people see you, as she goes.


Oh, the hermit and I was like, alright.

Well message received my friend.

Thank you.

And honestly, The Tick-Tock algorithm has done a lot for me.

So I’m I would trust a taro root.

I do like talk.


I’m on the fence, whether or not, I fully can commit to the results of a tarot card reading.


I feel like it’s just perfectly vague enough.

Then I feel like the skeptical and he comes out with tarot cards because it is.

So when It’s amazing.

This is the first time you’ve been people write this down.

This is first time I think because it requires me to look within and nothing like it becomes a moment of self-actualization and I’m like, I don’t know about that.


I feel like it’s perfectly vague enough that you could always find a way to read into the meaning of Taro or read into the specific cards.

So because I feel like every card has a positive or A negative or this or that and so it’s easy to in my mind I think because I’m so ignorant to what the cards mean.


I I could trick myself very quickly into feeling like I got a full message, but maybe I didn’t, but maybe that’s the beauty of it.

You know, it’s like you’re reading into it.

But that’s the point.

Maybe I’ve had a few tarot readings and Eva actually read my cards on.


She did a live, Eva is our lovely producer and friend and she read our tarot cards at one point on Instagram live, just for fun.

And she read my cards.

She had this, of course, a cat Tarot deck that I think you might have.

Given her sounds, right?

And she was like, oh, this one’s about like fertility, and all this stuff and I was pregnant and I nobody knew.


And she was getting dangerously close to kind of outing outing you.

Yeah, and she was like, oh this is about like giving life and like new beginnings and new, you know, and it was becoming very very clear that I needed to steer the conversation away.

And so later.


I told her like she was like, I was afraid to say anything.

I didn’t want to just go there, you know, but that’s what I was thinking in my head and I was like, well, that’s That’s what it was.

I was pregnant.

Nobody knew.

I think that was the time.

I probably believed in Terra, the most, because I had already had my suspicions, you’re pregnant.

And then she said that and I was like, you know what, this justifies what I believe already.


So let’s go back at.

Drawing told me some things.

Little kitty cat Tara’s.

I know what they’re up to in terms of like the history of Tara.


Do you know anything about tarot?

I didn’t up until until recently.

No, you know, I until about 30 seconds ago.


I did not know it was a game.

Originally, which is very fun.

I mean, I make sense that it’s a card deck of cards, that it would be a game.

But I know the rider weight is like the classic from what I know, which I don’t know if this is true, but I always learned that your first deck of tarot card should be gifted to you too bad.


I bought them for myself.

So I don’t know if that ruined anything or change the energy or what have you but it’s just the first deck.

Not all of them.


The first stack at least is what I learned that.

The first deck is meant to be gifted to you and then the rest you can by yourself.

Buy for yourself.

I was going to say, I don’t know a lot about tarot.


But one of the only things I know is things you told me such as being gifted tarot cards such as facts that might be not true.

So that’s good for both of us.

I feels sweet.

It feels kind, so feels like a night.

It’s a listener actually told me that because I mentioned it and then they mailed me a deck of tarot cards.


And said, here you go.

Like now you have a gifted set and that was very kind.

But yeah, so I don’t know.

Do you know any like, had you known any of the history behind it?

I didn’t know that history.

The only thing I Only knew about tarot cards at all, is that just at the cards can have several meetings?

So like if you pull the death card, it doesn’t mean now you die, right?


Which I feel like is a good thing to know in terms of the Bare Basics.

Because if I talk about, yeah, important knowledge, I have pulled the death card and been like, oh from what I learned hermit actually is pretty spot on because this woman on Tick, Tock was like, you’re withdrawing a little bit and I was like, yeah.


That fits.

Hermit me.


Sounds good.

Well, now that we are aware that neither.

Either of us know, a whole lot.

I guess we should really get into the meat and potatoes of this.

I mean, teach me to meet in pateros.


Oh, that’s a terrible name.


For like an Etsy shop or something.

You should probably not create that.

By the way, speaking about see shops and Taro, lots of fun can be found a lot.

So of have a good time.



So here we go.

The tarot cards are often associated with the occult today, but originally they were just a card game which I Going into this immediately.


Like can you imagine if a different card game was the one that became the good point?

Imagine if like spoons was just like what every occultist you need that in your starter deck.

You need to collect 6 spoons to put in the middle of the group.

It actually does sound kind of a cult faculty.


But what about if it were like Go Fish and it was like, Go Fish, the new ritual.

Can you imagine if it were Old Maid?

Oh, and then there was like, some sort of ritual with the old maid.

I don’t know how to SLI.

This is all kind of fit.


Like I could kind of see all of this working as an occult ritual, the tarot card origin, likely comes from Northern Italy during the late 14th.


Early 15th century.

Okay, and the cards were used to play a card game called Hiroki.


And the images on the card, by the way, which I think is fun, were inspired by costumes and Carnival parades.


Oh, so there was a Hermit running around.

I feel like if I were around back, The day, there’d be a sassy card.

I think to that Sassy, the clown running around yet.

For those who don’t know.

I was once a performing Clem.

Okay, moving on quickly.

It was about time that this show brought that up, we needed to get there eventually.


I think this would be a pisode 45, which is where it happened on and that’s why we drink to so true, who’s to say so yeah.

I thought that was really interesting.

So, I was always like, who came up with the imagery here.


Now, now we’ve got an answer to that.

So back then everything was hand-painted.


So the Odds are very expensive.

I mean, you’re literally however, big the deck was, it’s just a bunch of tiny professionally, done portraits, right?

Like, full-on painful.

I’m predicting the work.

So, you’re basically paying for, I don’t know. 7060 little pieces of art all at once.


I would just hang them all over my house and be like, Oh, I thought this was our person.

That’s so smart.

If I could ever get my hands on like an old vintage, a version of what, you know, 14th century 15th century by original 14th century.

I see the clown card.


This is my hermit from Italy.

If I could get like a whole deck.

I would totally want to do something like frame.

Be a pretty cool artwork piece.

I would say it would certainly be very expensive.

And that is it explains to why the game teruki was very popular with wealthy families and Nobles.


I see so when I said, oh, I would have put it on my walls.

I wouldn’t have because I was probably not a wealthy Noble.

No, and also, they were probably like we paid good money to play this game, but tape that to the wall.

Can you imagine being the artist who is Taking, I mean, back-breaking work painting, all these little things just to know what’s going to go to some like Rich Elites.


Probably gonna spill wine on it.

The first time around, get drunk lose a card, you know, like I can’t imagine, I’d be so over it so quickly.

So in the Italian aristocracy played with the cards, their version, here’s the fun part involved writing, poetic verses about each other.


It seems like a lot of work for a card game.

It’s very similar to mash my favorite.

I love Mash me too for those.

You don’t know what Mash is Mansion apartment check house as its formerly known.

I guess if you’ve never played Mash growing up, I highly suggest you let it distract you in classes and meetings.



It was like a prediction game where you would write down a list of your favorite.

I don’t know, celebrities you had a crush on or maybe someone in school, you had a crush on your favorite cars.

Favor jobs, favorite pets, you pick a number of kids, or whether you’d pick usually, it was, you would get three per category and then there was Always a million different ways that you ended up figuring out what number you landed on.


But let’s say you’ve landed on seven, you’d count 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 scratch it out 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 scratch out the option and eventually, you know, Freddie, Prinze jr.

Is no longer my husband cross him off and then you keep going.

Yeah, and eventually you figure out where you were living a mansion apartment check or house like plain old house and all the other things.


So I always got check without.

I mean, always, it’s, you’re not technically in a shack now, but you do have a cockroach problem, so, I guess kind of it.

Feels about the same.


All this to talk about turo key, which basically was very early mash.


It was also kind of a combo with bridge that bridge was involved too.

But basically you would pull a card at random or be handed a card at random and based on the picture.

You would write down what you thought that picture represented for their future.

And it was a very early version of mash, so fun and the Italian version poems, and all eventually spread through Europe.


Including to Southern France, where it was officially renamed.

Taro also in Tarot today, there’s cups, swords Pensacola’s once.

Do you know what the original four suits were?

Oh, I don’t, I don’t.

So they always had cups and swords, but there’s also coins, which I guess we can Pentacles and polo sticks, which sounds very aristocratic.



Yes, and it became ones.

I am assume whole of stick.

Oh my God.

That wow, that’s power.

Stuff right there.

So jump to the late 1700s where Frenchman Jean-Baptiste Elliot.

He published the first definitive guide to tarot card reading and using tarot cards for divination.


Okay, got it divination being a term.

You’ll hear that simply the idea of connecting to your higher self.

So this allowed for tarot readings to take off the thing you’re not really into the self-reflection.


The having to look with an i, I’ll do it if I have to but I already He don’t like games.


And now if I’m going to game night and someone saying you, it’s this is going to be a really moving experience.

I don’t think I want a game.

It’s my dream like this sound like my dream game night and for you, it’s like your personal hell, like I will order the pizza and then I’ll eat the pizza in Italy.


But hey Propst, I guess to capitalist Jean-Baptiste Ally EDD who saw the opportunity of like, oh, all these really rich people are playing this silly little game about predictions.

Can you imagine if they thought it was real and just ran?


We change these polo sticks to something a little more accessible to other people and then we can just a little more magical move, little more magical.


We can just spread this around so far.

What are your thoughts on the origin of Taro?

I’m surprised I really am.

I thought it was always a more, you know, sorcery based like divination tool.

I really did.

And I think I’m surprised that.


Well, I’m very surprised by polo sticks.

I think that’s my new fun fact at parties.

When no one asked me for fun fact.

Hey, Be true.

Yeah, I love that, but I’m surprised and I’m a little bit like, uh, I don’t know.

It shakes, my my understanding of tarot a little bit.

I think.

Doesn’t it, though.

Doesn’t it, though?


It makes me all of a sudden.

Wonder like, ha.

So it came from a game in which case, like not to be that.

I’m just talking as if I were, like, my father or something.

I’d be like, oh, so I can play Candy Land and all of a sudden.

I know my future, you know, like Chutes and Ladders.

You push me down a slide and that we know, Chutes and Ladders could also be very Lang.


If we wanted it to be a vibrant Downs of life as no, yeah.

Coming up.

What started with John Baptiste, Elliott continues to evolve to this day.

We’ll talk about how tarot became what we know of it now.

I cannot wait to hear the modern modern take on Terra.


So as for the evolution of Taro, mmm, we have Jean-Baptiste Elliot out of France in the late 1700s publishing, the first real guide to tarot card reading our favorite capitalists, as you called, him might be Capital least over there alive, seastrom Baptiste.


I don’t know you’re completely right.

In case you look this all up later Elliot published under the pseudonym atea which was Is it was his last name backwards?


That is fun.

I love that.


He like, really, he doesn’t think that far with his business plans.

He’s like, oh, this thing already exists.

Let’s now make money on it.


I don’t know.

What’s the name it?

So it’s going to be by my own last name, but I wonder too if it’s like, oh I want to distance myself from this but only a little bit because if this goes well and then I can take credit by saying.


Oh, no, that’s just my name backwards.

He also released with this definitive guide.

It was kind of like a whole Package, so you would get the Guide.

He released a deck of tarot cards with the book and gave meaning to each card that incorporated astronomy and the four elements genius.


Wait, there’s more.

He also assigned a specific orders at the cards and ways to spread them out, whether forwards or backwards, which some tarot readers still used.


I got to be honest, that part, I will never understand when cards are throws me off officially.


I tap out when they are like, oh, well, the cards are first.

I’m like, how do you know?

Is it is it reverse towards you?

Ford’s me the facing you is it facing ma’am?

Thank you.

And I have this problem every time and it’s probably a very easy answer but I just can’t wrap my brain around it.

You could tell me to my face with the answers and I will forget it in 30 seconds.


And it honestly, I’m sure I have and I’m sure you have and I’m sure Eva has and we just can’t we just can’t get it.

I’ll never understand it.

It really just completely spoils the taste in my mouth.

I try so hard to remember and it’s just one of those things that just flops on my brain.

Every time basically he created today’s entire taro.


Astri, and the general rule book that I think people still probably bounce off of.

So, you know what, I’m really proud of him for that.

Here’s my favorite part though.

In 1789, a liat released, a new deck of tarot cards.

Only for Supernatural, use, what does what?


That’s where I’m putting my money.

So that’s probably more of what we see today and the in Tarot cards.

So this deck came with had 78 cards organized into the major and minor Arc Anna’s.

So that was the first time Really saw that as it was more for Supernatural prediction use.



Oh, I see for divination and stuff.


So the major Arcana cards apparently held the big secrets of spiritual awareness with cards including the magician, the fool, The Wheel of Fortune, the moon and the sun, plus they also had Concepts including strength, Justice judgment, temperaments, and death.


Which by the way, does not always mean deaf just to remind me.

We’ve learned And that we’ve learned that their cards, we still hear about today, and the major Arcana, also had cards that featured suits, numbered, and Court cards that held smaller secrets of everyday life.


And speaking of major and minor.


I did a bit of little bit of an accidental, Deep dive.

And I decided to take a quiz, on astrology, answers to see which major Arcana cards.

Our personalities are.

Oh so you took a personality quit at this as fun on my behalf, even I sure did.


I answer.

The questions as as what I think you would say.

I love that.

That’s you probably know me better than I know myself.

So I trust you wholeheartedly.

I think there was only like one or two.

I was like waffling between two answers, but I think I answered that pretty well for you.

Oh, I can’t wait.

Anyway, I took the quiz.


What major Arcana card are you?

I am the devil, if you couldn’t guess.

No, you’re not.

I sure am.

First try.

Of course, you are.

Apparently what that means, if you break it down, is that I have determination.

Ation, focus and strong Basic Instincts.


And I have an awareness of my drives desires and doubts.

So that’s nice.

That seems I’m a strong.

Well little fella, I don’t know.

But someone who doesn’t like to look within that seems like a false, but okay, I’ll give it to you.

I’m not going to negotiate this.

Am I the fool?


No, I wish you were.

I was really hoping I thought I was going to be the fool and now in hindsight.

I really wish you were the hermit to but you ended up getting the moon which is very fun.

I love the moon according.

If you are intuitive, emotional and have powerful insight and the ability to sense things, all of which are very true.


And here’s another thing, these Christine.

There’s nothing.

That’s very true.

There’s a quote about the Moon from astrology answers.

You imagine all kinds of drama and crises in your head which are usually all unfounded.

And I was like, yeah, that’s right Evans.


Like I’m gonna sit my drink and just let Christine soak that in because that is what she does.

All the time.

Maybe you needed a little Shelf.

Actualization, but I was like, you know what, I like where we’re heading.

I’m going to 100% Bank on you being the moon because that was a little too close to home from.


And that’s I don’t even want to even take this quiz ever again because I think you nailed it.

I think I did too.

If you use the tarot cards today, you may know the writer wait deck, which you already mentioned.

Mmm, which came out in December 1909.

Oh, I didn’t realize it was so old me either.


I thought it was like 40s 50s, but you I was wrong.

Arthur Edward.


Created his own version.

In of the tarot with rectified, symbolism and got Pamela Coleman Smith to illustrate the cards.

It’s the first tarot with Illustrated miners, aka the numbers, like we see in normal suits of cards.


So like the one of cups to of, okay, I got you.

Here’s a fun fact.

I don’t think I knew when laid out together, all of these cards.

Tell an illustrated story.

Did, you know?

Like the whole deck?

I did not know.


I’m just the moon.

I’m up here.

I’m just Creating drama in my own head.

I don’t know what’s going on down there.

I like how you could have had, you know, whatever an unfounded crisis.

You could have been like if I put all the cards together.

Maybe they tell the story and we would have been like, sure.



Yes, that sounds right Christine.


It was actually true.

I can’t wait to go.

Like without one of these tarot decks.

I have at home now and try to like solutely.

See what’s going on over here.

Okay, in 1970, u.s.

Game systems bought the rights to these cars from weights family.

So here, here’s a fun fact for you, too.


The original first edition of the writer wait cards.

There’s only five known copies left out there.

Oh, so if you, if you happen to be a card collector of the tarot, that now you got a task.


Now, you’ve got an ebay to search for.

Oh, my goodness.

Forget Pokemon cards.

Forget Pokemon cards.

I would love a first edition, one of five in existence.

And of course, since the 70 is our culture has seen shifts and challenges.

And Taro has evolved with the times.


So when we got into the 2000s, Tara got a new life from artists who were able to create their own deck.

Thanks to digital publishing.

And I mean, I love that we’re living in this era where since the 2000s at least there’s just a whole bunch of novelty.

Tarot cards.


We can get, I have a Pokemon deck.

I was waiting to bring that one up.

I love when I can play with my Pokemon cards and my Pokémon cards all at the same time.

Pokemon cards can tell a story about your Pokémon.

Guards, I have a Eva gave me a Lisa.

Frank deck that I love, you know, there’s really an option for everybody.



I just saw last night on Etsy.

There’s a Lisa Frank holographic deck.

Well now and now my wallets in trouble, I would also love a Marvel deck or like a black, like glow-in-the-dark situation.

You can find them all.

I mean, again loving that were in this era of Taro.


Absolutely, a lot of modern decks stem from the empowerment of lgbtq+ POC and other.

Marginalized communities, you know, that’s a couple of our listeners have mailed me tarot decks, and there they are also just powerful.


Like I don’t even like I still have my rider-waite deck and I cherish it because it was my first purchase, my first hair purchase, but the ones that I received as gifts that have been like handcrafted by are hand designed by some of our listeners that have different people of color in the in the drawings and they’re just much more empowering and feminists and awesome.


So, Feel like it adds such a level of, I don’t know.

It makes them feel more powerful.

I also appreciate a lot.

I feel like a lot of people who use tarot cards see themselves as some version of healers.

And so it’s such a nice collaboration of you know, coming up with more inclusive or welcoming absolutely versions of a deck.


Well in healing and one way while healing in another.

So that is a beautiful point.

I’m Jericho, Man.

Deburr created Neo Taro in 2019, which Is a more inclusive deck.

That Jericho says comes from a healing place of quote.


Radical queer understanding.

Wow, I mean, a team Jericho over here.

I was gonna say won me over with three words.

Radical queer understanding.

That’s the only the three words that like my grandparents would flee from.

So she takes a psycho-spiritual approach which revolves around.


This is a quote revolves around intersectionality self-care emotional processing.

Freedom of choice and personal Liberation.

I’m not even exaggerating.

I feel like it’ll tear coming to my eye.

That’s so powerful.

Here’s another one though.

When the Black lives matter movement was in full force in June 2020.


Self-proclaimed Taro geek khalilah.

Dues saw a way to help her community and offered free tarot readings to black people paid for, by donations from white people, take my money, take my money.

That was smartest business move.


I’ve heard of in a millionairess forget.


What’s-his-face, I love this and I love how people are taking this and like, just like you said using it for healing.

It’s just beautiful.

Honestly, I haven’t heard of a Tarot deck.

I want to buy more or or a taro.


Yeah, Taro Community.

I want to be more a part of because between your tarot reader, I want to support.

Yeah, that’s just so powerful.

And after the pandemic was going on that same year, more people were looking for places to find spiritual guidance and Tara was one of those Outlets, so, Us game systems said, business took off with a 30% increase in Tarot Card sales worldwide.


That that’s a, that’s a big guy like that.

There, they bought it right?

They bought Taro from the rider weight that I love that, that’s just kind of a little humble brag like, oh, us.

And I’m like, oh, yeah, just a little slight. 30 percent increase in sales, our business went pretty well.

I guess it’s okay.

I mean, honestly, I bet a lot of those sales were for spiritual guidance, but I feel like a lot of them might have.


Also, just been, we were all stuck at home and maybe every single person like you and me.

A who are waiting to have a reason to, like really commit to learning the craft.

They’re all like, well, I’m I’m bored.

And inside we picked up new hobbies during the pandemic.

Yeah, I looked for spiritual guidance.


So I get that a self-care Splurge.

You don’t self-care 100%.

Also, I feel like supporting I mean, I guess if you’re buying it from us game systems, they probably are you know, nuts not the same as the the Etsy versions, but I bet people were supporting, you know, artists and people were doing from home and For buying more creative, approaches to Taro.


So true in a sense to me.

I know we’ve talked a little bit about your own rider-waite deck.

But do you have any tarot card sets?

That personally mean a lot to you or whether your current decks these days since you’ve got so many of them, you know, I really am.

Mad at myself for not really going through as you know, I live in a state of constant upheaval and Chaos all around.


And so I have tarot decks.

I think you even mention this at one point to me that you have Tara.

Dex kind of scattered about and I do too but I had not in an intentional way.

It’s more.

Just like oops.

I left it here.

They’re under my bed.

No, I I intentionally hide my tarot decks because then I feel like it’s a gift when I find them again.


And then I finally get surprised feel like it’s her like it’s gives me a little sign of like, hey, maybe you should do your Tara today.

So it’s a, it’s nice, I thrive with self rewards.

So yes, usually I will, I’m a big, we’ve talked about this a million times on and that’s why I drink.


By myself gifts in advance.

I buy them so far in the future that when they show up, I’m always surprising myself of you have forgotten.

I forgotten or I do a lot of thing.

I’m very treat motivated.

If I were a golden retriever, I guess.

And so a lot of times I’ll hide things and surprise myself.


I like to leave like a twenty dollar bill and a pants pocket, and then put the pants all the way in the back of a dresser and, you know, things like that.

So, anyway, tarot cards have somehow inserted their way into that world, but I my favorite one right now is the Pokemon deck that Eva got me for Christmas, such a good one.


And you know what?

My favorite is.


I don’t mean to interrupt, I just forgot I just remembered and I don’t want to forget Eva always the purchaser of tarot cards in our friend group I suppose but for Christmas bought Leona a Tarot deck for kids for my, for my daughter.

So I that one’s really special to me right now because I feel like that’s something maybe that will be the time when I’m finally able to like focus and learn is when I’m learning it.


With my child can have a mommy and me.

Road date, where you both self-actualize together and you’ll be like Leona.

Someone’s been pooping a lot Leona and are we?

What are we feeling today?

I don’t know that the look at the stars.

See what happened?

The moon.


Don’t forget it.

I’m the Sun.

Make sure she knows her.

Son and M is the devil.


Well, she’ll learn that soon enough.

I think my my actually my other most prized deck is actually.

It was my first one and it was gifted to me.


It was my mom’s from college.

Oh, that’s.

That’s I really like that because I feel like that also holds so much sentimentality behind it.

I think so, too.

Up next, after hearing that little bit of a terror lesson, will guide you in the right direction.


If you’re ready to give Tarawa, try, I need you to guide me, always and forever.

Please let the double guide you.

So if you want to try Taro there’s a few steps to start with.


So first, choose your deck.

Which one are we going with in this hypothetical Christine?

Well, It’s go with your Pokémon one.

I like that idea.

Love that, love that.

So choose your deck, the classic option, being the rider-waite deck, and most X, you find online, will be a version of writer weight makes sense.


If you want a more modern, take with an emphasis on self-care healing and empowerment.

You can choose like the Neo Tarot deck, or if you love a good tchochke.

Like I do, you can just rock with the Pokemon one.

I mean, personally, I would say whichever one feels right?


I mean, I don’t know how else I Know if people with more experience than me, would say that that’s actually correct or not.

But I would imagine.

Whatever is calling out to you in the moment is the way Jean-Louis.


You want to choose your space.

You want a calm healthy environment.

Maybe Barn in said I know we’ve never seen that maybe burn incense or candles set out your crystals or just get comfy and it’s also about your head space or trying to meditate before reading your cards.


That way you have a clear mind going into it.

What what does that space look like for you?

If you’re going to have Have calm healthy environment.

What in the world does that look like?

Well, you know I made where I’m sitting right now.

My podcast, Studio / room slash office is probably my most it’s just like the only space my house.


It’s like all mine and it has basically all the fun things you have gifted me is mostly what’s everywhere.

You’re welcome.

Yeah, exactly my crystals.

I have a little like Window Seat.

Have my fainting couch.

I have all sorts.

You do have quite the He Cottage of a room like a, thank you.


That’s what I was going for.

Thank you.

It feels modern witchy Cottage in the best ways.

That is the biggest compliment.

I could have gotten.

So, that’s probably where I would be and it’s also on the third floor.

So it’s definitely far away from everybody, which is nice.

What about you anytime?


I need to focus.

I usually have to drown out everything with white noise because my brain is always going a million miles an hour.

So yeah, usually I play thunderstorms like the thunderstorm sound app or I’ll I turn.

Off the lights.

Maybe I turn on a candle or a like a, you know, a little light source somewhere.


But like, not the like, you know, overhead lights.


My calm space is feeling like I’m in a storm with a power outage or something because it also that happens to be the same routine.

I have to make myself fall asleep.

So I think to me being home is getting sleepy and cozy.


I’m sorry fence, makes sense to me.

So, now as for the basic knowledge, take time to learn the basics, which I feel like you and I have tried on and off with and don’t stress about knowing the meaning of each card, just pick cards, look at them and allow the mean meaning to come to you, which I appreciate that.


That’s the way that it works because it really does take away some of the intimidation of being honest.

Being anxiety of being wrong quote unquote.

Yeah, exactly.

So there are plenty of online resources and some decks come with a guide.

Maybe if you go all the way back to like the 17th century, you’ll find the OG definitive deck.


How many polo sticks?

Did I get today?

So if you are more interested in growing and becoming more in depth with Taro, there’s a lot of resources out there and as your skills grow, so will the complexities of your knowledge?

But don’t rush yourself.


So I do really appreciate that.

It says, hey when you don’t understand a lot of it, if the meeting still comes to you, it still comes to you.

And as you get better, the cards will get more detailed and it’s like a grows with you.


I love.

And I’ve heard from tarot readers who have said the cards mean something like the cards mean things to me personally that I can read.


Yeah, like especially with like a certain deck and I think that’s really cool to that.

Yeah, like you grow along with the deck and kind of create like a relationship with it. 100%, The thing that always overwhelms me about Tara though is creating the spread that me too.


Me, too.

So in your head ask a question to the deck, usually my question is How do I put this bread together?

No, it’s usually something.

Like what will my day be like, or what message.

Do I need to hear today?

And you could just pull one card from the deck, and look up the meaning and in the guidebook, but there’s also some more advanced spreads.


So, an intermediate spread would be like a three card spread, where you you ask a question you could be about like, work or love or finance and you pull three cards past present future or what the cocaine present.

Okay, and then I didn’t know about this one, but there’s Apparently a weekly spread, which is now part of my Sunday night routine where you pull 7 cards to represent each day of the week before, turning the cards over.


I love that.

And then seventh day is death and you’re like a real.

It doesn’t mean that it doesn’t mean that weirdly, my deck had seven Death Cards and I just pulled all of them, but that’s what happened.

So, anyway, those are just some of the advanced breads.

There’s also lunar spreads that you can do, depending, on the time of the month.


There’s one called release and let go.


When you kind of try to think about the negative feelings or currently having and trying to channel positive outcomes.

That’s beautiful.

The one I always did whenever I would play with my tarot cards.

I was, I was taught the ten card spread, which again, I don’t have a lot of knowledge of each of the card.


So my answers were always pretty basic but it was a 10 card spread where I think they were where you are.

Now, you’re the potential challenges, your strengths and then there was like your past present.

Future, how you feel about the situation, the outcome, your hopes and fears.


So it had a little bit of everything.

That’s the one I want to.

And that’s probably why we’re intimidated because it was such a big leap into Taro like, yeah, it was like I wanted to learn addition and someone gave me a long division question and that’s what.



Anyway, would you say that the ten card spread is your favorite or now that you’ve done a few of them?


Do you have a new favorite or you know, I actually I kind of like the idea of simplifying it a little bit and going to you.


Yeah, like a three cards for I even just pulling which I’ve done before.

Pulling one card and seeing what that kind of says to me or or what the meaning behind that is for a question or even just like how is there a message I’m to receive.


I kind of like simplifying it and doing either a three card or you know, just a single pole at the weekly.

I had not heard of either so that might be a fun way to try it.

The weekly again, I am motivated what by rewards and I would love to get through every day knowing that there’s a new cards.


And over at the end of the night about what’s coming.

I think that’s super fun.

Well, I think are you supposed to do seven in a row like, oh, this is how your weeks going to go.

Or you just going to, I’m a glutton for punishment also, so I think I would probably make myself.

Wait it out every day.

Just I see.

Okay, you could do your own.

I’ve already pulled the car.



It’s still going to be true.

If I don’t touch it until the day of right?

Oh, I see.

Oh you pull them and then you don’t even look at them until I understand.


Interesting them.

Imagine you pour like your morning coffee morning, tea.

And then you like just flip over the card that you Hold on Sunday night about how today’s going to go and then you go goes hermit and I say, yay and I go back to my bed.


That’s Tara.

What is your takeaway?

Been on all of this?

I feel like I’ve been on a worldwide Journey.

I’m not kidding.

I feel very, it’s has been very elucidating and thank you for calling me.

I got a little, like, with the history.

I felt a little bit cheated like, oh, what?


This is just for like Polo players, back in the day, but I feel like it’s really grown into Zone and the fact that like the symbolism has has adapted and, you know, you can put your Infuse, your own meaning into it and your own energy and I feel reinvigorated and I think I might actually start my tarot learning.


So, thank you for teaching me.

You’re welcome.

Also, I do appreciate that.

It makes me feel like I never aged at all because if Taro is just adult Mash.

I feel like a kid all over again.

Okay, if they had framed it like that to me, I would have hyper fixated on this a long.


Long long time ago.


Thanks so much for listening.

We’ll be back next week with another great episode information.

On today’s episode came from Slate bicycle cards, collectors weekly, my modern met, the world of playing cards, Atlas obscura Vogue and Betty tarot.

Remember to follow rituals on Spotify to get a brand new episode every week and you can listen.


This and all other episodes of rituals for free exclusively on Spotify, and if you liked this show, follow at par cast on Facebook and Instagram and at podcast Network on Twitter.

You can follow me at Eckstein Schieffer and you can follow me at the M Schultz.


Thanks again for listening.

See you next week.

Rituals is executive produced by Max Cutler and is a Spotify original from par cast.

It was created by Max Cutler sound design by Kristen Acevedo with associate.

Sound design by Jamie Ryan.

Checking by Karim acrolein research by Chelsea would it’s produced by Kristen Acevedo and Jonathan Ratliff with production assistants by Ron Shapiro.


We are your host, Christine Schieffer, and M Schultz.

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