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We can say with certainty that 1800s were wild especially when it came to spiritualism, it wasn’t mainstream or even completely understood.

1:21

So it gave people like, Andrew Jackson, Davis, the perfect shot at being a pioneer of sorts.

I feel like it was kind of the Wild Wild West, you know, of ghosts.

Yes of ghosts ghosts and spooky business and the old adage of the early bird gets the worm, but the worm being fame, and fortune in this case, and Andrew Jackson Davis JD is I obviously call him was influential in how people viewed hypnosis something, that we may not hear a whole lot about today.

1:51

Okay, I now, I’m intrigued, you got me.

You got me hooked.

It’s almost like I lured you in.

I mesmerised you, you did.

2:14

Hi everyone, and welcome to rituals a Spotify original from par cast.

I’m M Schultz and I’m Christine cheaper every week.

We’ll explore the evolution of spiritualism and the Occult through stories practices and the impact on Modern culture, I gotta tell you Christine I am very stoked to be talking about hypnosis this week, I can’t wait.

2:33

I’m literally going to be everyone’s guide today on Andrew Jackson.

Guess who I didn’t know existed until about 24 hours ago.

But I gotta tell you.

Any time I can talk about mesmerism or hypnosis.

It’s going to be a good day.

I can’t wait.

So let’s crack into it.

3:02

Let’s talk a little bit about hypnosis Christine.

Let’s talk about it for the whole episode.

Actually I think I’ve been waiting my whole life for this conversation.

Let’s do it.

Oh well, have you ever been hypnotized as there?

I haven’t I haven’t either.

No.

Oh my gosh.

Why not honestly, because I’m scared me too.

3:18

Well, I think when it comes to like psychological I think it’s like going to therapy and getting hypnotized.

I’m more okay with that because it’s in a private space.

But I also think of like the stage shows where you get hypnotized in front of Well and that it just won’t fly with me.

3:34

Isn’t it true that some people are less susceptible to that?

That’s what I’ve seen because I’ve been to those shows before and I think if you’re just not in the right head space, I’m afraid I would be too in my own way to get hypnotized if that makes sense.

I think not knowing what would happen for me.

3:50

Is the part that scares me the most?

Because I think I would actively try to fight it.

And if I found out that I was still capable of falling under someone’s spell, I’d be like, Oh, and it be too late.

As far as I’ve heard from a At least like hypnotherapy you need to be like, consenting willing participant, because I’m pretty sure if you’re like, I refuse to get hypnotized.

4:10

It’s just not going to work.

I believe it in theory but I also in practice don’t want to find out when I’m on stage in front of other people.

You’re the exception.

Yeah, my mom has done it a few times like done the stage shows where she like, she really gets hypnotized.

Like she said, very easy.

4:26

I think she’s been hypnotized at least two or three times.

What?

And there was two different times that worse?

It shows that there was another time that I don’t know if it was hypnosis, I don’t want to like poopoo on anyone but let’s say she wants to like a conference where I think she was just expected to meditate for the first time in her life and it was like she had an epiphany but in the times where she has had to do it like on a stage, she like knocked out before everyone else on stage and she Linda she’s ready to be told what to do I guess this is like Take the Wheel hypnotists.

5:00

There was one show where She, it was like, so mean, I know what it was like for entertainment value, but the hypnotist at the end was like, before you wake up, the next thing you drink is going to taste like pee like something gross, some and then afterwards, everyone got off the stage and all the people sitting at their tables.

5:18

I drink this drink.

This, it’s so and I my mom said tastes like pee.

So we are you serious?

Yeah, like, I can’t.

Okay, kid.

I should if I just made that up.

Yes, I’m serious.

No, I don’t mean that.

I mean like it but that seriously works.

Yeah, thank you made it up, but I’m like, it’s that powerful.

5:35

Oh yeah.

Have you ever been to one of those like nachos?

Oh, they’re so entertaining.

I mean, I my only experience as people who are like doing this for entertainment value versus like truly using it for help, but even from just that angle, I have to believe.

5:51

I’m not going to knock it, I don’t know enough about it to knock it, but also I’ve never been on the receiving end.

So I’m not going to knock it but anyone, I know who has been a willing participant of it has said it.

Works.

So okay I’ll take that testimonial and I’ll run with it.

Yeah.

And if someone has a completely different experience.

6:08

So sorry that I just like chose the side and ran with it, right?

So, as for today’s topic with hypnotism, we’re talking about Andrew Jackson Davis, have you ever heard of him before today?

No, I mean, the only thing I know is that Andrew Jackson, Davis.

Sounds a lot like Andrew Jackson and I’m assuming they’re not the same person.

6:26

I thought the same thing at Christine You are not alone.

I was like the president A hit first, I was like, this is what was he always like, why was our history class?

So boring, when I’m out this kind of information between this and Arthur Conan Doyle and all these people.

6:41

I wish I was just couldn’t like, where was I?

I think I know the answer to this.

But have you ever experienced someone who claims that they have some sort of abilities and they’re taking their claims a little too far, or maybe they’re not as genuine.

I feel like I know here, answer is yes with your one, friend, who You got some bad information about her mom?

7:04

Oh yes.

Yes, exactly.

That’s where my brain went to.

I forgot that I’d even told you that was so long ago now.

But yeah.

Like you said my friend had an experience with like a psychic medium who like told her some really horribly dark stuff about how her mother was going to pass away that year and just I feel like you know I’ve talked to other people who went to nothing true.

7:27

Right.

It absolutely was not true and I feel like one of the things you learn when you’re working That field is like a, nothing is static.

So, you know, you can just be like, oh, they’re going to be dead next week and then for sure that, you know what I’m saying?

Like, I feel like it’s hard to stick to a such a concrete story anyway.

7:43

But, even so, like, if you did receive that information, like, why would you tell somebody who you’re trying to help or try?

And yeah, you know, I think they must have just been misguided or like new at it or something but it was a disaster and my friend had a really really, really hard like took it.

8:02

Very hard and obstacle for a long time with it.

So you’re right like that kind of thing is also a little scary.

Yeah.

That was the first thing I thought about.

Hmm.

When I was like I wonder what would Christine’s answer B?

And I was like, oh, I already know that.

Do you have any experience with that?

8:19

Um, That’s a tough one for me because yeah.

Christine’s already, sorry.

And her laughter, never even asked, I don’t know how to say it in a way and then let’s just say, I have someone in my family, who believes they have some abilities that they they just don’t, well, it’s been put it that way.

8:40

I don’t mean to like, you know, usually if someone tells me they have a gift, I’m going to run with it.

But let’s say, I know this is trust.

Just trust him.

Please trust me that this Person has an ego and thinks that they have untapped certain parts of the Universe.

8:57

I think there’s a series of mental illness involved in that but just to keep it as vague as possible now.

But you know, the thread that I’m seeing here is I think when people take their claims too far or yeah, it’s when they start, harming people intentionally or unintentionally, I think like when it starts to affect other people negatively on a regular basis, like that’s when it’s too far in my opinion, or when it makes your ego too bitter.

9:20

Or you know, whatever it may be.

When it’s like a harmful practice then I feel like it’s taking it too far.

I feel like that’s a thread of like, yeah, taking it too far.

And I say Mental Illness.

But I want to say that when I think of people who are frauds or grifters or whatever, the phrase is just like how you said sometimes I don’t even think of, they are aware of it.

9:37

I think there is a spectrum of people who are completely fraudulent to completely genuine and their abilities and in between, I think there is sometimes a gray space of people who think they have the abilities.

Exactly are being fraudulent are unaware.

They’re screwing people.

Yeah, and hurting people hurting themselves.

9:53

So right.

Right.

The spectrum is very broad, very wide.

Why can’t we see where it does?

Andrew Jackson, Davis fella falls on this spectrum because I have no idea.

He certainly Falls somewhere on the Spectrum and you let me know where you think.

It is.

So spiritualist.

10:10

Andrew Jackson, Davis not to be confused with more president as some and I have both confused him for that.

One plate.

He was born in Blooming Grove for Orange County New York.

New York in 1826, and at a very early age realized that he had a gift.

10:25

Mmm.

So in his autobiography he even has a chapter called I yield to the Mystic power, which bold statement, huh?

I suppose I also yield to the Mystic power, but I don’t think I would title a chapter of my own seem like like that.

10:41

I do not yield to it.

I think all things yield to it, whether or not we are aware of it.

I think it’s too late for us, but he wanted to let you know exactly where he stood on the Marriott.

And what’s interesting is that many people who call themselves Clairvoyance or mediums, they do say that when they discover that they have ability as it happens, especially when they’re young.

11:01

It takes a while for them to fully understand them.

And so, I guess Andrew seemed to be one of those people where he, you know, he found out when he was younger and he’s just trying to make sense of it which is so far.

I’m on board.

Yeah, so his family also moved around a lot when he was a kid so he didn’t get much of an education and that does fall into the criticism of him later.

11:26

Okay.

There are some skepticism on whether or not education is a role in this or whether or not he actually was more educated than he was letting on.

So there’s a little mysterious as there.

Always seems to be.

So when a JD, when he was 17 and 1843, he went to a lecture by a traveling doctor named dr.

11:47

J.s.

Grimes.

And I feel like every doctor From the 1800’s had a name like that.

What I was going to say, don’t you picture that on like a little bottle?

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Like dr.

J.s. crimes, tonic to cure all Onyx, Elixir Elixir.

Aha yeah, yeah.

12:04

And the lecture was on mesmerism or as what?

We now know, as modern hypnosis, I feel like we should have stuck with mesmerism.

I feel like right away with that word, I know what we’re getting into absolutely feels mesmerizing has some like, onomatopoeia, you know, Like yeah summarizing.

12:23

Anyway, as a lecture, he was picked as a volunteer to be hypnotized, but here is a thing, which you mentioned earlier, it did not work.

Oh, and at some point after this failed lecture hypnosis, I think he was maybe I don’t know if he was like, oh let’s give it another whirl but he was able to be put into a state of mrs.

12:41

Merrick trance by a man named William Livingston.

I don’t know what the storyline is there.

Maybe he was embarrassed for getting kicked off stage and he was like back Happen again.

So he’s like next time I get on stage to be hypnotized by a traveling doctor.

I’m trying to be, I’m chugging the day.

12:59

So he went to a man named William Livingston who was able to put him under a trance and when this happened, he came to a realization that he could accurately.

Diagnose medical disorders.

Oh boy.

Aha.

Thank you for saying exactly how I feel.

13:16

Oh okay.

He left the session now fully believing in his own.

Science that he could see medical disorders.

Oh aha, you and I are going to have a lot of talks about later.

So by the time he was 21, he claimed that he could just enter a hypnotic State without the help of others.

13:36

So he could just kind of Boom, go into a trance, got it, which I have heard people are able to do like, but very Advanced meditation practice that part I meant to I would argue.

I mean I don’t think I’m capable of it but I do know that like I have certain routines and I’m trying to fall asleep and it’s very easy.

For me to fall into like whatever I would consider like a meditative trance or like a lot of people when they’re trying to astral project in some way they have you know, mental routines.

14:00

Yes.

So that part I am on board with so far you think you can go into a hypnotic State.

Maybe you are cool but he would later.

Go on to claim that when he’s in a trance the human body was transparent to his spirit.

I his third eye.

14:16

So people just became invisible basically and When he was in this trance, he could look at a person.

But when he was looking at them, he couldn’t see their flesh.

He could see the organs within their body clearly and see what was wrong with them.

So he is basically claiming x-ray vision or something.

14:34

Yeah, he’s like, oh, let me take a little peek at your lungs.

Well, picaro, and I think that’s why he also was so confidently.

Telling people, I can diagnose medical disorders because I can look at your stomach right now until you bop bop bop okay, I get it.

I see I think we can all take a guess.

14:54

This is the problematic.

Yeah, this is certainly problematic.

And like, of course, my first thought is, Let’s test him.

I’m going to swallow something really random and three like, what did I eat?

And I feel like, that’s a dangerous game to play, but it’s the one I want to play like that jackass episode where that movie, where the guy’s like puts a car in his, but if you ever seen that.

15:14

Yeah, I don’t know.

I would love to put that guy in a room with Andrew Jackson, Davis and be like, tell me what’s wrong?

If you can’t find the Hot Wheels in my ass, then leave know that you’re not fraud.

Honestly, that guy from Jackass, would have been doing us all a favor.

15:30

That’s all I’m saying.

So, Andrew Jackson Davis.

He’s got this like hypnotic x-ray vision.

He also said that his Clairvoyance, let him know and understand Divine truths and the laws of the universe.

Okay, as I read that sentence for the first time, and also right now, I just can’t help but roll my eyes.

15:51

Yeah, especially this is particularly too, on the nose for me.

So I don’t know if I’m in a position to have a clear mind reading a sentence like that, because the person in my life that I have to deal with has said, verbatim that to me, really they understand Divine truths and the laws of the universe. 100%, that’s a dangerous.

16:10

Because if you’re convinced that, you know, the laws, the universe and have some Divine truth that other people don’t have.

Then you’re, I mean, not to bring up ego and but like then you think of yourself A as infallible and like, you can’t be corrected.

Or, I mean, that’s just a dangerous space to be in, and that’s why I was also slipping in the mental illness note earlier, because I feel like I can’t speak for Andrew Jackson Davis.

16:34

But if it’s anything, like the person I’m referring to, in my personal life, this fella is a Supa dupa narcissist, mmm, because I feel like you really gotta have a bold attitude about yourself to be like, yeah, I understand Divine truth in the laws of the universe and you don’t so and it doesn’t matter what anyone tells me.

16:50

Yeah.

So truth again, I don’t think I’m in a solid impartial position.

I think I am more or less being triggered in some way with my own personal situation.

But I do believe that there are people out there who are Clairvoyant, who do have gifts and are able to see absolutely maybe Divine truths that I can’t, but I think this is a little too on the nose like next-level stuff.

17:12

That’s, uh, yeah.

I don’t know where he stands for all, I know, you know whatever.

But I am a little weary of the fact that this guy is saying I know the laws the universe when you don’t and also I can see through your body and I can see diagnosis, one of the things that would make me fall for the things that this guy is saying, if I saw a chart of people, he saved with his diagnosis.

17:33

Yeah.

I’d love to see how effective this was like in all seriousness.

Yeah, I would love to see like, oh, how many people had like conditions medical conditions, you were able to use your third eye and and help them with, right?

Like, I’m genuinely curious me too.

17:48

And if I found out that Sky was looking through your skin and could see your heart and your lungs and 100 people survived because of him.

Hey, I’ll shut up, you know?

Sure totally.

I mean we’re not going to shut up but like we change the topic.

Yeah, we’ll stop poking at this.

18:05

But anyway, so a JD did say that he understands Divine truths allows the universe and this is what he said was the superior condition which was beyond Clairvoyance and now right where it gets a little too narcissus tea for me.

He also claimed that he could visit the spiritual World whenever he wanted and was given truths from Beyond the spiritual world.

18:27

So I don’t know how true that is.

I do know that there are mediums out there who actively can speak to spirits out that part.

I’m not knocking, I just, I feel like after the first few things, he said I’m taking everything with a grain of salt.

Absolutely.

Up next, Andrew Jackson, Davis has a life-changing experience that sends him out into the world, sharing his views of the universe.

18:50

Raising more suspicions about what level of Education, he really had.

Okay.

So now, this is where things are getting interesting.

I want to know about this little like potential trickery trickery the mystery is alive and well for us.

Listeners.

19:08

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It’s called Cults inside the world’s most notorious groups and understanding the people who joined them and you can pre-order it today at par cast.com Cults.

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So to commemorate its launch Park cast, will be throwing some exclusive in person and online events, featuring popular, true.

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Pre-order your copy of Cults and sign up for upcoming events at par cast.com cults.

By the time, he’s 18 years old.

20:24

Andrew Jackson Davis is fully immersed into this idea that he has the ability to basically unlock the secrets of the universe.

And by the way, this is a great time to remind you he was only 18 years old.

Whoa, okay no 18 year old should be this self confident in my opinion that they know the universe is secrets.

20:42

And even Let’s Pretend everything up until now.

We 100% Leave to be true.

No. 18 year old should have the power.

Yeah, that’s the thing or the responsibility, like give me a few more years, we didn’t do it.

Let them gradually, learn his power like his frontal lobe is far from developed.

20:59

So give it a second.

Yeah, give it two seconds.

His connection to spiritualism is allegedly on a higher plane than anyone else according to him and he can now travel on the astral plane and diagnose from great distances.

Oh boy.

21:15

So from across Ross, the country he can he doesn’t have to just look at your body anymore.

His x-ray.

Vision is a date.

Basically means it.

It’s irrelevant because now he can just travel to the astral plane and look at you from Paris and be like, hmm actually I know what your situation, you stuck another, Hot Wheels up your butt.

21:33

You can’t trick me.

Hey, I mean sidebar.

But are you seeing the parallels of things that you and I have discussed before?

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

I thought you were talking about the Hot Wheels and I was like, am I don’t want to know?

Ha ha ha.

So the following year in 1844 Andrew has a life-changing experience.

21:54

This is the night of March 6th, and he claims that he slipped into a semi trance State and slipped freaks me out because that means that it’s almost out of his control now.

Yeah, and Powers took control of him that allowed him to travel with his astral body.

22:11

Roughly 40 miles from Poughkeepsie, New York, which is where he lived to the Catskill Mountains.

It’s okay.

Okay, all right, I’m there, I’m following, I like that.

His life changing event, by the way, wasn’t like, becoming a vessel for universal truth, but it was like, checking out the Catskills.

22:27

It like a camping trip.

Yeah, by the way, as someone who’s had a long week, I too wish I could just pop over to the Catskills just saying, but like leave my body behind, you know, leave the husk where it is and just go light a bonfire and like, have a few beers, well, you know, the husk behind and go to like a Are you bougie Spa?

22:47

I don’t know.

I don’t know what was going on in 1844, but the Catskills is certainly where I would accidentally slip into if I could.

And so a JD, he said, he came to the next morning.

So he did this whole 40 mile Trek when he comes to.

23:03

And here’s the part.

That confuses me because he says he comes to, and at that point, this is when he meets the Greek philosopher, Claudia’s, Galen, and the Swedish Seer Emanuel swedenborg and both of these Men had died long before this happened.

Okay, right.

23:18

I was like Galen is a long time ago was he doing in the Catskills?

I’m confused why he came to and then met them because I feel like you meet them and then you come to from the go back to reality and you have a memory of it or something.

Yeah.

So he is like just it feels almost like he’s slipping in Between Worlds or that’s the story.

23:37

He’s kind of telling us that he didn’t even mean to, and then I traveled 40 miles out of my body and then I woke up and talk to Greek philosophers.

It’s Sounding either completely made up or if he truly believes it, it’s miraculous or mental illness.

23:55

It’s one of these three options and one of those three options, only, the best part about this is, It’s considered life-changing.

And yet minimal information is given about this situation.

Like what did Galen tell you, or did you just see him or just, okay?

You had an astral trip that like blew your mind and then you woke up to Greek philosophers and sweeter.

24:15

Ears and your room.

And then he just went on with your day.

I suppose, I suppose a good for him.

Couldn’t be me.

That’s for sure.

I guess it changed his life, right?

Like he called it life-changing.

What did it change?

Maybe the fact that now he can see the dead.

I’m unsure.

But I know what?

24:31

Well, I mean he can see like a bed philosopher and Israel.

I thought you meant like now he’s like he’s like Haley Joel Osment.

That’s what I really I was like em.

This is the story is getting a little too much that would be pretty large a drink.

So now Even with the spiritualist community, there is speculation as to what actually took place that night.

24:50

No, you don’t say.

So, perhaps, you just had a vision and the trip never really happened or maybe he really did.

Go into a trance and travel 40 miles.

I mean, we don’t, I feel like we were not given enough information and even if we were given every second of information, I still don’t know how much I would believe it.

25:07

Uh-huh.

But it sounds like just another crazy day.

In the life of Andrew Jackson Davis.

This is so classic a JD situation, so whatever.

The Ruth was or is about the night.

Andrew was very affected by it.

It caused him to take A New Path where he began traveling a lot to give his own lectures.

25:23

Oh, okay.

He took a page out of JS Grimes book JS crimes in his elixirs.

Yeah.

And I’m, as many elixirs.

So while Andrew was traveling around giving lectures, he met a mesmerist named dr.

Lyons and another man named Reverend fish bow.

25:41

Okay.

I feel like the adventures of mesmerist dr.

Lyons and Reverend fish bow is certainly An acid trip, waiting to happen.

Like this is like some sort of allegory, like, I’m supposed to learn some morality lesson from this, The Lion and the fish, and the man who can travel 40 miles from Poughkeepsie hundred.

25:58

Oh, that was beautiful.

Thank you.

Well, you know me, my ways of just, I don’t know, making you seem interested, whatever I have to say, so dr.

Lyons was able to put Andrew into a trance and while in that trance, Andrew, would start talking which the men found to be gold.

26:15

I don’t know if that was comedy gold or if it was I don’t know what it is that he was saying the whole time, but let’s just say the doctor lines and Reverend fish bow decided that they were going to transcribe everything.

But Andrew said, they took this stand-up routine on the road.

26:32

They were like he’s already giving lectures.

We’ve got the travel circuit book.

Wow.

So basically they decided, okay, we’re going to transcribe everything.

This guy has to say, while he’s under a trance and they kept putting this man under a transfer, 15 months.

To transcribe everything he had to say.

26:48

So I don’t that much to say okay well well probably not I have a feeling the answer’s.

No he’d like three months in there like that, wraps it up and he’s like, wait no, I have one more thing.

Let me add one more thing and it just like happened, 415 full months, I gotta say, based on what I know, so far about.

27:04

Andrew Jackson Davis.

I feel like he truly thinks 15 months of words coming out of his mouth.

All of it was actually true Gold’s philosopher’s, stone gold.

But I gotta be honest, though, I feel like if If I were under a trance and I was just free, associating, I would probably talk for 15 months.

27:21

I don’t know what would come out.

Yeah.

I like we’re giving it a lot of shit but like you and I only talk for a living, that’s all we do.

I got to give him credit.

Where credit’s, due like, if I were put under a trance and told to talk, I wouldn’t stop.

Are you kidding me, ever?

I’m not even under a trance right now and I can’t stop.

Good point.

27:37

We’ve certainly had a podcast for longer than 15 months and we thought we had something important to say so and we still keep it going, despite what the naysayers have probably, right?

Said I fear the day by the way.

Not so like totally break the fourth wall and mention all of your podcasts in one.

27:52

But I do fear the day that you do a beach to Sandy episode on and that’s why we drink.

Oh dear, no never close to the sun too.

Close to the Sun danger.

Okay, well anyway, should bring it back to not reality but whatever this is so Andrew is talking for 15 months and they are just writing everything down that he says And those transcriptions became Andrews famous book called the principles of nature, her Divine Revelations, and a voice to mankind, which came out in 1847.

28:25

I like that.

He calls himself a voice to mankind.

Yeah.

Doesn’t it all confirm my feelings about him?

Yeah, it’s a lot and like, I don’t know what I was expecting but I was expecting a lot of words and that is what the title is.

It’s a lot of words.

I also wonder what parts of his 15 months of dialogue.

28:45

I wonder like He decided State and what didn’t is it like an eight thousand page book?

I could be, it could be all 15 months of talking but I would love to see the other book of all the stuff that didn’t make it end because, you know, he said something and 15 months I was a little cringey and he was like, let’s not put that book.

29:00

Let’s leave that out.

I was having an off day and I kind of made that part up.

That wasn’t really part of the trance.

The part that I made up is where I said, all of this isn’t real.

Those my Panera order.

I was just hungry.

They got out.

So Andrew was 21 years old in this book came out.

So he’s just one One, he’s having a successful successful life, I think, boy.

29:19

And keep in mind, he didn’t have that much of an education.

He had only gone to school for like five months and his life, and he had read fewer than six books in his life and now he’s got a book that’s slut.

I assume selling pretty well since he’s the voice of mankind.

But after this book, the principles of nature came out.

29:38

Andrew would go on to write and publish over 30 books and forty five editions.

Oh my God.

And again, I’m not saying this man is a narcissist or thinks highly of himself even though he has that.

He has a superior condition Beyond Clairvoyance and he thinks he’s the voice of mankind.

29:57

But, you know, I could be out of line saying things like that.

However, in these 30 books and forty five editions, he would write about the seven planes of existence mental and physical health.

Astronomy physics, chemistry philosophy.

You name it even though he had no education.

30:14

Yeah.

So he seems a little big for his britches and my opinion, I’ll give him like planes of existence because that sounds like something.

You could probably just like whip up out of your mind’s eye, whatever.

But to talk about chemistry without any education, that part is where I get a little skeptical.

30:31

Like you got to have picked that up somewhere, if I’m right and he’s got a couple loose screws.

I also find it interesting, but he finds himself an expert on mental and physical health.

Like that’s one of the topics he covered.

Well, I mean he can see your brain.

30:47

Oh right, I forgot.

He literally can look at all of it, just but, can he look at my brain while?

He’s talking to me about the things he’s saying, and watched my brain break itself your synapse.

He’s just like misfiring left and right.

I’ll also give them the planes of existence.

31:03

It’s one of those weird things were, like, I don’t believe he’s giving us at least the full truth.

Mmm, maybe he does have some Clairvoyant gifts and he just really ran with it.

Maybe has no Clairvoyant gifts, maybe he has all Clairvoyant guess, and I’m completely in the wrong here.

31:20

I don’t think I am, though, I’ll be honest, I don’t either and I think most of us would agree.

Yeah.

Well, let’s assume that he is dealing with some mental stuff.

While also being Clairvoyant, and the two were just getting mixed together in a weird.

Venn diagram.

31:36

I’ll give him that he wrote about seven planes of existence because they’re basically my to say, like, oh, that’s not what about my world’s, not a world.

I will knock it off.

Mental health, and physical health, and chemistry though.

I mean I know this was a long time ago but I like you know, you’re preaching on Mental Health.

31:52

Like maybe you should not brag about how uneducated you are in the topic.

It’s like, right?

That seems to not really mesh but okay?

I will say though I’ll give them the seven planes of existence because if he did have some Clairvoyance to him, then he might know about that.

32:08

I’ll even give him begrudgingly.

I’ll even give him philosophy, because maybe he really did talk to a philosopher after his weird cats.

Eels, astral plane, Experian, Borg those are things if only he’s talking about what Galen had to say.

Other than that, I’m not going to go in philosophy.

32:23

Yeah, but yeah, I don’t know what of this Israel.

I have a feeling he was talking out of his little tushy.

I think if we were to look back at his books in today’s world and like, fact check him, we’d find a few errors.

That’s what I’m going to leave now.

That’s a bold statement and but no, it’s really not because within forty five editions of these books.

32:41

Like there has to be at least a typo, right?

Especially 45 editions.

I feel like what 44th one.

You had something else to say, like, you know, I come eat my update, this 15 months of talking wasn’t enough for you.

He also wrote about how he’d see the human body as transparent, and when he was in a trance, like I mentioned earlier.

32:59

So at least he was open about that in his book.

Okay.

Honest, about what ever, he may or may not be honest about sure.

This guy’s a mess in my opinion.

So there is an author named James Wolk, who wrote about Andrew Davis, and his book called history of medicine in New York Volume 2 and 1919 and he had his doubts.

33:20

Because if Andrew was going to write about this stuff, then James walk, she was like, well, Andrew can’t possibly not be more educated than he’s letting on.

If he’s not talking about the stuff he has to have some sort of Education to back up what he’s saying, right?

Like he must have learned this somewhere.

33:37

Yeah really.

So you thanks Andrew did.

In fact, read and study up on these topics which is a fair argument of like if you’re going to write it.

The stuff.

Please tell me, you know what you’re talking about.

Yeah.

So I think that’s fair enough.

That was back in 1919 people were doubting with the sky was saying, or at least part of his story, he had.

33:55

So I was like he’s withholding some truth and I feel like that automatically makes you more skeptical.

It’s like, why are you not telling us everything?

Bingo, bingo.

Coming up.

We’ll chat about how authentic we think Andrew Jackson Davis was and reveal which president he was rumored to have advised, but it was not the answer Jackson.

34:15

Okay, I was like, that’s my only guess, but I never mind.

34:33

Well, I did say when we got back, we would talk about how authentic we thought Andrew Jackson Davis was, and I think I have given my opinion, but so far, where do you stand Christine?

You know, it’s weird.

I want to be like he’s full of baloney, but there’s something about the story that just like, I feel like I’m have two very conflicting viewpoints here, because I I have a really hard time believing people who take like other people’s Health into their own hands and it like, you know, it’s just something you and I have talked about and especially like we’re for someone who has like a chronic illness.

35:05

Like I have Crohn’s disease, and I have had plenty of people in my family and otherwise tell me like, oh well it’s because of like a past life experience and a way to heal it as by like, don’t take those infusions every 8 weeks like, you know, that’s poison.

35:21

And go put like gemstones on your forehead or whatever you know, like I’ve had all sorts of Bologna stuff thrown at me about like how to fix my health problems and if I truly listened to them and believe them like I would have made myself so much sicker and so I brought a hard time sometimes with this but at the same time I have had experiences like I was in Greece, one day.

35:43

I was in Greece.

One day that.

Yeah.

Okay we hang out with gaalan.

What were you doing?

All right, I just took a look, heavy driven fine.

I was in Greece and like on a school trip and this guy was I forget what we were doing.

35:59

I think it was one of those creepy like fish where they eat your dead skin off your feet.

Oh you were at a salon.

We were giving her feet.

Oh sorry.

What school trip.

Were you on where you’re getting pampered?

Must be nice.

You were increase, getting your feet for a, my little fish eating creatures.

36:19

It was a really weird time of my life.

Let’s just leave it at that and so but afterward like they had this like massage therapist guy and he came in and he was like doing like a five-minute foot massage, okay?

This is also like in some ways.

We gotta say it was a on this class.

36:34

It wasn’t hot fancy.

It’s like a bag.

A lie like Groupon basically.

And so this guys doing the swim times and like he like stops for a second and he barely spoke English.

She looked to me and he’s like, you have stomach problems and I was like, yeah.

And he’s like, you have ulcers.

36:51

I was like how do you know he’s like I can just tell by your feet.

I was like what?

And I’ve had multiple people do that.

Like if I’m getting my toe nails done or whatever, like people will sometimes, literally be like you have, there’s a problem with your and I think that’s more an acupressure situation may but I have had a few situations where people will either do Reiki on me and be like, oh my gosh, you have like intestinal issues, it’s really weird.

37:13

And so part of me is like, maybe it’s just, I want to believe there’s some truth to it and that people aren’t just so blatantly like using Vulnerable sick, people at the same time, like I don’t have that much faith in humanity.

So like my gut is sort of, you know, what’s fair.

37:29

I mean, I’m more leaning to the fact that he is full of baloney, but I also will admit that I am not biased in this situation because I have to deal with someone like him on our that, you are bias.

Yeah, I am biased for it because I have to deal with someone like him.

And I were a semi-regular basis and it’s a lot to deal with and like when I think of it from that perspective I’m like oh hell no.

37:50

You know like from the You’ve had I’m like, oh hell no.

I don’t want to touch it with a 10-foot pole, but, yeah, so it’s sort of weird.

It’s like, I have two sides.

My judgment is definitely clouded.

So I’m leaning on to the sky, is not who he saying he’s bang, but I have also had the why I haven’t personally had the same experience that you did, but even my own mom, she had just gone through all of her doctor appointments, she even got her thyroid tested at the hospital, and like, and no one found anything wrong.

38:18

And then she went to some weird back.

Alley Reiki person I was like, you have thyroid cancer and they were right?

And yeah, we’re not condoning.

Just go to back alleys and talk.

Sure.

People can see the future.

But no, I mean, there have just been moments where there are people you run into.

Just, they happen to be right.

38:34

And I don’t know if that was a gift or a good guess or, you know, taking advantage of people.

Like he said, I like to think that he’s, I think you and I are on the same page of like, really hoping he’s telling the truth or at least hoping he believes it in some sense because like it would be just so twisted and dark if he’s just like with You know, yeah, right, I hear you, but so Andrew Jackson, Davis, he wrote this book, the principles of nature, or really spoke it into existence.

39:01

Since he talked for 15 months and he wrote in at the, he believed that spiritualism would continue to grow and soon we would be connecting to Spirits all the time, which I guess if you wanted to, like, squint your eyes and try to find some relevance to it, I guess that’s true in that.

39:17

People are more open minded to spirituality today than they used to be, or Or at least in my circles.

I don’t know what the rest of the world is like, but I feel like if you’re really struggling to like split hairs, I guess you could say he’s right.

Yeah, it’s hard to say because I’m on the one hand I’m like but that was the height of spiritualism.

39:34

Like yeah see I don’t think it’s that pervasive as it was back then as far as like believing whatever you saw but at the same time I’m like I guess a belief in the supernatural has persisted obviously so I don’t know.

I do it’s hard to say well let’s say in the short term of things and the And of things, he was more or less on to something because, oh, he’s like a trend forecaster.

39:57

Yeah, I don’t know if it still Rings true today.

At least.

Compared to, like you said, a time of spiritualism, but right around him making that claim.

As also, when spiritualism started, showing up in the u.s. because in 1848 not long after his prediction two sisters and hides, Bill, New York reported to have communicated with spirits and we have covered them on and that’s why we drink, their the fox sisters.

40:21

What was it?

Episode 201, if you’d like to go listen to that, they knocked with their other than knockers.

Okay.

I’m not going to give any more spoilers, but them and then I think shortly after them was the Davenport Brothers.

I always thought the fox sisters in the Davenport brother should marry and have you know just keep it in the family, why not?

40:41

But no the fox sisters are known to be some of the first big influences of spiritualism and the Uso.

And hey that was right around after he predicted that spiritualism.

I was going to keep growing, so right at least for the meantime he was onto something and this was also prior to the Civil War and if you listen to our episode on Mary Todd, Lincoln Seance, you’ll know the concept of connecting with Spirits, definitely grew on top of that.

41:06

Another interesting fact about Andrew Jackson Davis, is that I said, he was involved with a president.

Mmm?

Really wish it was Andrew Jackson because that would have worked out very well for all of us.

But many people do think that Andrew Jackson Davis, advised.

I’m Lincoln during the Civil, okay?

41:23

So Abe is just all over the place with these spiritualists all over the place.

So if you listen to our Mary Todd Lincoln episode, how she was very involved in seances and the White House and Abraham Lincoln, the said to have even joined her at some of the seances and they had a son died in the White House.

41:40

And so his ghost is still said to haunt the area.

It sounds like Abraham.

Lincoln is just riddled with Spirits, early spirituality or spiritualism.

And I remember in that episode Talking about how Abraham Lincoln might have, originally only been doing seances as a publicity stunt or to like kind of stay relevant with the time, right?

42:02

Right.

But I feel like if he’s also talking to Andrew Jackson Davis, who was this the superior Clairvoyance.

I feel like Abraham, Lincoln actually really had an interest and Elsie was married to someone who had a huge interest in it.

So right.

Right.

Maybe.

Mary Todd Lincoln was like, we got to have this guy over for dinner and that’s where this all stemmed from God.

42:20

I have this very The uneducated genius.

That’s what I call myself.

Yeah, I know.

So, jumping ahead later in life.

Andrew Jackson Davis went to medical school.

Oh my god, I’ve been.

42:35

Wow, the irony.

And he retired in Boston, which again, I don’t want to knock medical school from any point in the timeline, but I feel like maybe the 1800’s medical school.

Curriculum was either easier to follow or it was easier to get in.

42:51

Easier to graduate or this man is completely lying to us.

And he was very well-read and a lot of things, but I feel you can’t just jump into medical school or could you in the 1800’s?

I don’t know.

Maybe you could.

I mean, if you were like a white man, obviously not anybody.

But I do feel like there is some element from when we read these old stories where people could just kind of become doctors if they had the right kind of real Christmas.

43:13

Yeah, or like money but at the same time, like, can you imagine being in the skies class and he’s like, oh, I don’t need to do an exam.

Mike can see their kidney stones.

I got through my invisible, like I just feel like it would be so wild to me.

If he kept up this, like, notion that he can do this throughout medical school.

43:32

I know he was a grown, man, but I’d love to see the comments on his report card.

Like, right?

What are the teachers saying?

Like this guy, clearly deserves to be a doctor yesterday.

Why is he in my class or like know like why is this guy acting like he can x-ray vision people?

That’s not what this is.

43:49

Hey, they still gave him a degree.

Some And agree.

I guess someone either believed him or him out of there thought he was in his right mind the whole time, I don’t know, but he became a doctor which is just the most ironic part for him to be bragging about never reading to just go to medical school and they graduate.

44:07

They even want to be a doctor if he can already well I guess maybe for just the title and the money, I don’t know.

This guy seems like someone who loves titles, remember he is the voice of mankind.

That’s true.

Who am?

I kidding?

So he retired in Boston.

In and he opened up a small book shop and still prescribed herbal remedies to his patients and he died in 1910 at the age of 84 and that is Andrew Jackson, Davis.

44:31

He lived a long life.

I wonder if he could look in the mirror and see his own organs and know the in Haiti for that, he was on his way out.

I wonder.

That’s an interesting point.

I mean he lived a long time.

He lived a long time, but I feel like if you are that connected with spirituality were just slipping in between different astral planes, I feel like you should know something about how Are going to go, you know, maybe you do but like what are you gonna do about it?

44:55

I know I just feel like I would have heard him brag about it.

I feel like I only like I’m going out on Tuesday.

Yeah, you’ll like let’s have a one big party together.

I don’t know.

Anyway, that is Andrew Jackson.

Davis, do you have any differing opinions from what I asked a while ago?

45:10

No, no, I’m just, I’m going to keep my very skeptical mind as much as I’m like, ooh, interesting concept of being able to like send somebody’s internal organs from the outside.

I’m like you know, I got to keep a this is a little too dangerous for me to really fall for.

45:27

I feel like this is a slippery, slippery slope if you will.

Yeah I also agree with you that it I mean I’m obviously going to say more skeptical than maybe even you would, which is so weird.

We finally found our topic where I’m more skeptical in your more, you know, open to it.

45:43

But yeah, I don’t know.

I feel like if I wasn’t sure already that he was getting away with a lot, the nail in the coffin for me was that he just And I waltzed into medical school and maybe, I don’t know, maybe he didn’t Waltz and maybe he worked really hard.

And finally write a book to be able to apply to medical school but it sounds like he went from really having no background to just being able to casually.

46:04

Write about Evolution and get into medical school and all the same time still claiming to not have read any books.

I mean it feels like he got away with a lot.

It feels like sketchy and I’m like yeah once you start realizing he’s lying about being well read or understanding literature or Have you or chemistry?

46:23

Then you’re like what else is he lying about?

And also why is he lying about it?

If he does have these gifts like it really is a slippery slope in that way.

Yeah.

And like I know you said this earlier but maybe he did have some natural abilities, like Clairvoyant, abilities.

And he just took a really far and was like, I know how I can monetize this or I can turn this into a career path and then he took it really far and was like, I’m also a chemist now I guess.

46:46

Yeah or maybe like he thought he was Clairvoyant.

There are true.

Up there, I believe that, but I think maybe with him, maybe he thought he had gifts, but his gifts were actually just being able to like, read a room really.

Well, are like The Gift of Gab or like kind of being able to if he had a thought or he thought something might go one way.

47:05

He had that ability to be able to kind of predict something and be right.

More often than not or I don’t know, I don’t know what his deal was, but I feel like at a young age, he just kind of learned the social skills to embolden, whatever he already believed about himself or convince other people.

47:21

That he was telling the truth.

Yeah I mean there’s something to be said for his confidence so that’s true.

Maybe he was doing things for the title but I feel like for a guy that seems very arrogant and into titles, I feel like he would have loved to brag about being well, versed and being well read.

47:42

It’s weird that he was keeping that so hush-hush.

But I think that was how he was trying to convince people that this was a natural ability from that’s true, the universe.

Like he didn’t read it in a book.

He like got it from some Divine Source.

It’s true.

That’s true but I don’t know.

I mean yeah it seems like he kind of flip-flopped on that when yeah into medical school so maybe he was like, all right, I’m tired of this charade.

48:04

Maybe I should actually go get some real education, I don’t know.

But it’s a weird gray area where I feel like a lot of people listening are probably going to scream from the top of their lungs that he’s clearly phony.

There are other people who might really want to be on the camp that he, you know, was just really good at being Clairvoyant.

48:21

I I really am in the camp of the gray space between like is it Clairvoyance and, you know, maybe there was like a Sprinkle of mental illness in there.

That kind of, you know, you can’t really pull the two apart.

Very cleanly.

I don’t totally know, here’s dr.

M diagnosing, mental illness.

48:37

If he can do it, I can too.

It’s about family.

Nope.

I don’t know.

I don’t know what it is, but I’d certainly especially given my own background with people in my life.

That act a lot like him.

I feel like I am on the cautionary side.

I’m probably going to jump over.

With you, to be honest.

48:53

Yeah.

49:03

Thanks so much for listening.

We’ll be back next week with another great episode.

Information.

On today’s episode came from the Poughkeepsie Public Library National Library of Medicine spiritist, group of New York and the spirit book by Raymond Buckland.

Remember to follow rituals on Spotify to get a brand new episode every week and you can listen to this and all other episodes of rituals for free exclusively on Spotify.

49:24

And if you like the show, follow at Park asked on Facebook and Instagram and at podcast Network on Twitter, you can find me at VM Schultz and you can find me Eckstein cheaper.

Thanks again for listening and we will see you next week.

Rituals is executive produced by Max Cutler and is a Spotify original from par cast.

49:41

It was created by Max Cutler sound design by Kristin Acevedo with associate sound design by Kevin McAlpine fact-checking by Cheyenne Lopez research by Chelsea would it’s produced by Kristen Acevedo and Jonathan Ratliff with production assistants by Ron Shapiro.

49:57

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50:21

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