Rituals - E21 • Man of Science, Goddess of Sexuality

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You know, the dinner scene in the movie, Beetlejuice, where they all become possessed.


Yeah, that’s dream dinner.

Party is what I call it, sort of seems like, what we do every Saturday night, but that aside the entire idea is contacting the spirit world and being able to talk to them in the real world, that’s kind of the idea there.


Aha, been there done that next.

Well, this episode is sort of a Twist on that concept.

So Babylon working was a series of rituals in the 40s where a man named Jack Parsons wanted to turn a spirit into.

Get this a full-time real human being so nothing temporary.


No, temporary possessions.

Just like full-on, bring them down to earth.

Make them human.

Oh, like a zombie.


Only permanent possessions Beyond this point.

Thanks Herrmann it.

No, going back.


Hi, everyone, and welcome to rituals a Spotify original from par cast.

I’m Christian Schaffer and I’m M Schultz and every week, we’ll explore the evolution of spiritualism and the Occult through stories practices and the impact on Modern culture.

Today, we are talking about Babylon working and I don’t even know how to introduce this topic in Of a casual way because it’s just so off the wall.


So we’re going to get into the nitty-gritty of it, but just buckle up them.

It’s a roller coaster.

I hear.

Let’s crack into it.

Today, we’re talking about the Babylon working experiments.


But the story involves being part of an occult organization.

Seems like a running theme through this podcast.


That’s the one thing that probably won’t shock me today.

The least surprising part.



So would you consider yourself to be?

Part of an occult group, I guess that’s not really the right phrasing.


You’re part of a few like societies by Christian grandfather would for sure.

He would say I’m part of many a cult communities along the same with.


Same with my family as well.


I’d say Paranormal Societies that.



That sounds a little less traumatic.


I’m not sure.

But if you were to compare being part of an occult group to say, a fraternity and sorority, even maybe a religion, some sort of, like, group organization, how would you compare them?

Well, as someone who’s also been In fraternities and sororities.

I could do still will Trifecta Venn diagram?


I don’t know anything about religion though.

So I could, I could take a whack at it, but I feel like they all got pretty strong, similarities at least in their main tenants of like camaraderie and common values with your peers and also having like rituals or ceremonies or symbolism, that’s a good point.


I hadn’t thought it.

Well, I was never in a fraternity or sorority as you know about it’s just like in a cult group it.

Just see that.

See if I known that.

I would have been part of my Greek life at my school, and I don’t know about the rest of them, but in my sorority, we absolutely summoned the devil.

So I don’t know.


It was, I guess that’s a similarity also.

I guess that’ll be summoning the devil.

Yeah, that seems maybe religion is not quite in that Venn diagram portion, but that part’s the outlier I think.

Yeah, you’re right.

We’ll have another question for you.

Have you ever believed in something so much even if it sounded crazy to everyone else around you and you just Still stuck with your gums?


Well, I mean, I guess some people would say that ghosts is one of those topics but I have, I feel like the me believing in ghosts has kind of been a Mainstay since I was like 7, right?

So and I feel like people wouldn’t be like, wow, that’s absolutely crazy because I’ve, you know, so many people do maybe time travel.


I don’t know.

I’m a big believer in time travel.

I like the Multiverse.

I feel like nothing is too far out of the realm of possibility, though.

Yeah, I think, for me, it was when I started To doing like the akashic record stuff and I tried to call you out to people and I was like oh it’s a vast library with all the information of past present and possible Futures.


And people were like, oh so like a symbolic library and I was like no it’s a literal library and you go meet your Spirit guides are and people are like cool.

Thanks for meeting me on this fun, bumblebee FF date.

I’m really not interested in talking anymore and I was like, oh bye.


I got to be honest, it does sound bananas, but I also know you You well enough to know the like if you’re on board like ride or die Christine if you’re into it I’m into it.

Like I love that about you and also you did my akashic records one time and predict a lot of very odd things.


That even you could not have known, I don’t even remember, but I’m going to trust you on that.

You did a good job.

I was asking about relationships.

You said, like, wait a week and then I met Alison like something crazy like that or and then I waited a week and introduce you to Alison and said, I’m the best Matchmaker.


You know what, I have to reconsider everything you’ve ever told me now.


I’m just saying not to be Devil’s Advocate on your complement of me.

Well, I’m still going to fight against you and say, you got something going on there.

Oh no, thank you.

I guess I just always felt left out, not being part of a sorority.


And so I decided to do my own Li sorority.

I will say if my sorority sisters knew that akashic records were possible, you would have had a lot of followers.

I think you could have turned that into a very different group, really quick, my own sorority, I love it.

Well, do you know anything about Babylon working or Jack?


Jack Parsons sounds, so familiar.

But I don’t know where I know the name from but I Babylon.


I’ve never heard of.

Yeah, I hadn’t either and I’m sort of surprised I haven’t heard of it because it’s so off the wall but then again, I’m not so surprised because once again it’s so off the wall so it’s hard to say.


I feel like this story is a big tail of contradicting, LOL.

I love a tale so well I’m going to spin you a pretty good one.

So Jack Parsons was an extremely smart guy.

He was a man of science and he found his way and got really passionate about these spiritual experiments and I feel like we’ve talked a little bit about when science meets the occult and it’s something I find very interesting.


Do you have any thoughts on that before we dive in just like the scientist kind of delving into this whole world I do just because I feel like we’ve talked about how they Go hand-in-hand.

But I feel like this guy takes it to a whole new level.

And I’m always fascinated by the topic of quote, smart people ending up in Worlds, like this, where it’s like, people could justify, it was saying, like, I thought you were really smart.


How did you end up here, right?

But I don’t know, I guess I would compare that to like when people say like, oh, you’re really strong.

How did you end up like as a victim of abuse or something like some strong people end up in that position?

Some smart people end up in a position where they’re believing some real kooky stuff and like Is that where the story ends up, by the way?


Like, I can’t, I don’t know how if I can justify where the story ends, but as someone who’s like a big, I was about to say a big fan of Q and on, but I’m a big.

Whoa, It’s like a fascinated by people who follow q and on.

I feel like I’ve used the argument a lot of like there’s a lot of smart people out there that just fall for very silly stuff and that’s why it’s so dangerous because yeah, it doesn’t just affect a certain group of people Well yeah, I think they’re smart people who are quicker to skepticism than others but I think there’s also smart people who the reason they’re they’ve been considered smart their whole life is because they challenge or question brought to them.


That’s a good point.

I think they just question a little too hard in the wrong direction and end up on a very silly path.

I love this use of the word silly.

It’s my favorite word.

Yeah, it’s a good word.

I feel like by the end of this, we might have graduated to a more advanced word than silly just because things I try to keep.


As diplomatic as possible currently.

No, I like it.

I feel like we gotta keep it even Keel.

And then as we go on, will kind of determine where on the silly scale.

We’ve landed also diplomats if you need a good word, next time, you’re challenged by something.

Just silly.

Always works because the first people oscillate fits the bill, no matter what you’re talking about.


Well we talked about the wickedest man in the world.

Aleister Crowley in a previous episode.

So I’m goin to that one.

If you want to hear more about him, but Basically just as like a recap Crowley had a somewhat scandalous approach to the occult in the early 1900’s in that.


He promoted following one’s desire while combining magic and sexual Freedom.

So mhm, we did a whole episode on this but he really especially for the early 1900’s was pretty out there for people, silly, very silly guy, Crowley joined the occult Society, the Ordo, templi orientis Oto.


And this group would sometimes X engage in what they called Sex Magic.

So aha.

How can I forget about?

How could you forget?

It’s a very big part of that episode we did.


Was so Crowley was named National Grand Master, General of the English branch of the Oto in April of 1912 occur.


And then three years later in 1915, Crowley and another Oto member founded.

The Oto chapter named Agape.


Number one, in Vancouver, British Columbia, Okay, so now we’re in Canada, he’s started this first Lodge, then we fast forward, 20 years to decades later Agape.


Lodge, Number Two held.

Its first meeting in 1935 in Los Angeles.

So, now, we’ve landed in Allah, and our main character today.

Jack Parsons joined this Lodge in 1941.

I did look it up to see if it still exists.

That’s a hot know, folks, just okay.


I just because I just wanted to know how close by it might be to me, it’s not there anymore.

So I’m glad you checked, I didn’t think to check then again, it’s I’m not in a position anymore where it could be my next door neighbor and you are, that’s what I was worried.


Yeah, I thought it could be my upstairs.

Neighbors were full of cockroaches from it would explain a lot about their paper.


So yeah, Parsons was a respected chemical engineer and Aerospace Pioneer.

So, we’re talking not just smart guy but like next-level smart and you know it’s interesting because I feel like you sort of touched on this that some people who have been considered smart all their lives.


It’s because As they kind of went against the grain and Challenge and I feel like there are some examples today to where like you meet like the most successful people on the planet and they’re really like off the wall like kind of not totally.

It’s almost, I’m just going to finish your sentence for you because I used to like, interrupting I, my coffee hasn’t kicked in.


Please do, but I think we’re going is it feels like their intelligence started as a superpower and becomes like, they’re, you know, the thing that actually hurts them like they flew too close to the Sun, that’s actually not.

What I was saying, but it is a emit a good point.

Well, I was like ready to let you take over, but I know yet.


No, I mean, that’s a good point, too.

But I think what I’m trying to say without, hmm, I guess I’ll just say it.

So, people like Elon Musk where they’re very successful, but then in real life, you know, are pretty off the wall and like, strange and hot butter for work.

You know what I mean?

Like, people who are like very successful, but then have like pretty wild philosophies ideas behaviors in their personal life.


Or Even professional life.

So I guess what I’m saying is, oh, you can see somebody who might be like a narrow space Pioneer, very successful.

Also has these kind of wacky or one might say silly philosophies ideas beliefs, the word you’re looking for in the South.


I’ve been called at many times is eccentric eccentric precisely that doesn’t work the southern way of saying a few, you’re really weird.

What’s the matter exactly?

Just a little eccentric.

A little quirky every now and then.


So that’s that’s basically all I was trying to say.

So he is this very well-respected chemical engineer Aerospace Pioneer.

He actually helped found both the California Institute of Technology’s jet propulsion laboratory and aerojet general.

And so once Parsons joined the Agape Lodge, he quickly got Aleister Crowley’s attention and within the year Crowley named Jack Parsons head of Agape.


Lodge number two.

So they Crowley I saw something in him that impressed him and promoted him right to the top.

Oh hey, okay, so Parsons eventually moved a lodge to his own mansion in Pasadena, which once again, is, is close to you, when Burbank, I looked it up.


That one is 13 minutes away from me.

So, oh boy, a little close close for comfort.

I don’t, I don’t feel safe anymore and so as the man in charge, Parsons was then allowed to allowed to perform Advanced magical rights.


I’m glad he got the Okay, well, you’re like Crowley was like, alright, I like what I see in.

You like, what kind of green light do you meet?

Like, what do you need to do?

You have to prove himself or was it just like a title so I couldn’t use it for all the test was it like, oh, you put so much money into this and you moved it into your Mansion.


I guess you could do your own magical rights.

Now, by the way, his Mansion was it’s I checked the neighborhood.

It is.

It’s millionaires row.

So like, that’s so sure.

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

So I’m sure Aleister Crowley saw that place.

And yei you You can be whatever you want, you can, you do all the magical writes that you’d like and I’ll support you or at least I’ll turn a blind eye.



So Parsons increasingly became interested in the idea of breaching, the border between the spiritual and material Realms to bring a supernatural entity into the real world.

So, this is sort of what we hinted at up top of bringing a spirit into human physical form on Earth.


Hmm, it just like first time I’m hearing of anybody.

Passionate about this side of the occult.

So what he would do is he would conduct magic rituals in an effort to merge, the worlds of the spiritual and material Realms.

And those series of rituals were called The Babylon working.


I feel like that spiritual realm was like I do not wish to be written into your narrative or leave me out of it.

Coming up.

I’ve got the details on how Jack Parsons experiment played out and whether it was ever truly successful, I am going to guess it does not work but if I’m wrong the stories about to get so interesting.



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Let’s get into story time here.

M Aleister Crowley also known as if you recall the great Beast. 666 world best nickname.


Your favorite screen name there ever was, I know, I know, I’m so jealous I didn’t come up with it so he allowed the Ordo, templi orientis, or the Oto to expand a California in the 1930s.


Their chapter, there was named the Agape lodge number two, and they were known to deal in Sex Magic.

And then by the early 1940s Jack, Parsons was going to their nightly meetings, he was witnessing, these strange rituals that took place and some of these rituals, which I found interesting personal anywhere weird twists on Catholic mass.


And Catholic bass is pretty weird already as a performer reformed Catholic.

I was going to say as someone who is not Catholic but had to attend a few Catholic ceremonies, I walk on in with fresh eyes and I was like whoa this is this is a very silly place this and have not.


It’s because I grew up with it.

And so it was only when I kind of went back after not going for many years that I went.


This is a little odd.

Yeah, so I’m interested to see what his version of a weird Quest is on what I consider an already.

Very weird twist well, buckle up because it gets weird.


So there was a black-and-white stage with an altar.

That was embossed with hieroglyphic patterns.

And then, the group’s leader would come through an upright, coffin that they had covered with a gauze. 10.

I mean, it sounds like a makeshift haunted house.


First of all, love the theatrics of it.

Like, I do it again, Circle.

I would love to enter rooms from an upright coffin, perhaps accompanied with a flurry of bats.

I don’t know.

This sounds so dramatic.

I love the god curtain.

Like I just wondered who which assistant had to like hang that curtain up for helmets.


Also Catholic, it’s like a veil.

Like is it like to like walking Avail or is it?

Posed to be like a sassy Cape.

You just kind of fling to the side as you walk out of the coffin.

Or is it a double entendre and it’s both.

I love.

When you say, double a beautiful beautiful symbolism there with this curtain or is it just being dramatic for the theatrics of it?


Who knows?

I think we both know it. 100% feels like Community Theater.

It feels like somebody said oh okay.

My 15 year old brother works on set deck and he got to bring home some of the set of, I don’t know.


Play it feels like Halloween drag like yeah during the rituals poetry was read swords were drawn breasts.


Were kissed wine was drunk.

I’m okay with that part and cakes made out of menstrual.

Blood were eaten.

Okay it’s take such a turn so quickly.

I was cool with every other thing you listed but the period blood cake I got a Be honest as a Humdinger.


It’s um it’s a little too eccentric for me.

I not feel and I feel like we’re gonna blow right past that fact very quickly but I just need you to know.

I’m going to be researching the entire process and really horrid detail later because I need unfortunately I’m too fascinated that I won’t be able to rest until I know like who was responsible for providing the blood that week did they also have to make the cake Was the cake made?


Was it how was it served?

Did you have to eat it?

If you enjoyed this, did you get to do in your free time?

Did you get just a bite?

Did everybody get their own little cupcake?

Like, was it a big cake is our frosting like, what’s the frosting made out of?

Is it tiered?

Mmm seasons.


Are we eating at a dinner table?

A fancier, like around a campfire.

I don’t know.

I think around a coffin.

Alright, okay, so that part, we know.

Okay, I’ll figure out the rest later.

Okay, we’ll fill in the blanks later.

Yeah, this is Some very eyes wide shut.

But like, but like off brand, knock off any theater version.


That went off the rails.

Sort of cakes made out of menstrual blood.

Whoa, that’s a big one.

That’s like a hard one.

I was gonna say hard to swallow, but like, literally, and figuratively her to swallow, at least for me.

I’m, you know, there are clearly people who do this, so that’s true.


That’s true.

I guess some people were into it, including Jack Parsons.

What was the thing I said last week of like, it’s not my world.

Oh my God.

You just like show up with these.

What do you call them?

Opinions know.

Like idioms like things that you just suddenly start saying and then faster than you learned them, they’re suddenly gone and you don’t even remember what they are.


Well, whatever the idiom was last week, where I was like trying to be as non-judgmental as possible.

Throw that in here.

I’m not going to knock it.

It’s not my world.

I’m not gonna knock it.

And you know what, I’m not gonna dock it for other people.

For me it’s not my vibe but not my vibe.

Either it is a little out of the box for me.


So, there you go.

Oh, stop miss the moment where you said we’re gonna Breeze, right?

Past this, because I really wish we had.


Okay, that’s probably the funniest, like I’ve said the next five years, so let’s just move on quickly.

Well, as out-of-the-box slashed, He swallow, there’s a whole thing.

Sounds Jack Parsons was all about it is his world, so don’t knock it.


Couldn’t he loved it.

He loved the stuff.

Aleister Crowley was his Idol and like we already mentioned, Crowley had taken a liking to him and so Parsons just shared his and the group’s beliefs mainly that sex could be an important part of magical rituals, okay?


So after Parsons became one of Crowley’s favorites Parsons was put in charge.

Of Agape Lodge Number 2 and he soon got very interested in the idea of blending, the spiritual and material worlds because he wanted to bring a supernatural entity into the real world.


And remember, this guy’s a literal rocket scientist.

He co-founded, both the California Institute of Technology’s jet propulsion laboratory and aerojet, general, very successful Arrow.

Jets business was doing really well at the time he had a lot of cash flowing in and with that he bought a mansion I guess in what is it?


Millionaires row and he moved The Lodges operations into his own house.

So now he’s like really in charge of this thing working from home.

Oh gee.

Yeah, I like right to taking working from home to the next level, he nicknamed his Mansion.


The parsonage and he got a ton of visitors and partygoers, he had witches and artists scientists and writers coming in and out of this place.

That’s a great time sounds fascinating.

Yeah, speaking of going back in time, I think maybe this Is where I would go.

If I were sent back in time just to like peak in doesn’t sound like everyone that went, there had to be a part of this like cake eating ceremony like no I don’t think so.


If I were to someone’s plus-one that sounds like a real eccentric group of people, you know they got to have an open bar like I would have been full of blood so watch out.

Yeah you’re right.

I probably would have trusted.

I would have been BYOB that that party but still fascinating.


I would have love to be a fly on the wall.

Jack Parsons followed an Aleister Crowley’s footsteps.

Many ways including the possibility of establishing contact with Spiritual Beings.

So now we’re back to Babylon working, and we’re going to get into more of the details of this silly.


Mmm operation.


In January, 1946 Parsons held a series of ritualistic experiments.

Called The Babylon.

Working Parsons goal, was to summon a spirit and using magic.

Turn it into a tangible being essentially, he wanted to turn the filament goddess.


Of female sexuality Babylon into a human being.

I’m going to sum it up here.

Well, I’m not, but I’m going to read to you a quote that the Sunday Times in London published in 1969 about Parsons experiments.

This might some it up a bit.

Here’s a quote to carry out this intricate Mission Parsons needed, a female sexual partner to create his child in the astral spiritual world.


If this part of the fixture when successfully Parsons would be able to call down the spiritual baby, And direct it to a human womb when born this child would incarnate the forces of Babylon.


Why are you laughing?


This is serious.

Also stuck like this.

We have entered full-blown stereotypical occult ritual territory and right.

Also again, leave it to a man set.

Aside that a woman, I’m sorry, a goddess.


It’s cool with doing this with him, by the way.


How do we know that the goddess is like yeah, this is I think I’m also into I haven’t heard anything about that.

I imagine like she wouldn’t be I mean I wouldn’t be I don’t want to speak for her but yeah, this is definitely a one sided project.


They have going here for like I heard in the introduction to the book of Babylon Parsons explained that the purpose behind Babylon working is to save the world from being destroyed which to me seems a little like a stretch.

I don’t really know how or why that would be the end result of this project.


But right, well, that’s what he said.

Okay, good for him.

He also said that the force of Babylon was to be found in each man and woman, but it could also manifest in a specific woman, which was the ultimate goal of Parsons.

This is just getting super cringe, how many complexes can someone have?


Because like, okay to reiterate, that lovely, quote from the Sunday Times, he is preaching that he needs to sleep with the ultimate woman to say Save the world and his baby compared to all.

Others is superior as a demigod like.


Like that’s his offspring.

No one else’s.

Okay, well, it’s not my world’s knocking knocking knocking.

He says, I’m the one to do it.

I’m the only one who can pull this off and save the planet.


Yeah, we’ll get there.

We’ll see if it actually works.

We’ll figure out if this mission was successful or not.


Uh-huh, so the ritual is done in the parsonage over 11 days, which were basically inspired by the 11 rights that Aleister Crowley wrote about After the first phase of the ritual is finished, there was this strange Supernatural tension in the house while Parsons waited for results to manifest Parsons and one of his magical helpers drove out to the Mojave Desert and there the tension suddenly stopped because they kissed.


It was all over.

We all felt that tension.

They just needed to do something about.

Unfortunately, I wish that were the on big, but no Parsons told his helper quote, it is done.

And felt sure that the tension had ended because he had accomplished the ritual check great.



As soon as Parsons and his helper arrived back at the parsonage, he found a woman at his house who said she was the one who would carry the Incarnate of Babylon.

Oh, good for her.

You know, I’m glad someone volunteered before I became like a, like a not volunteered.


That’s true.

I mean, you’re you’re right at least this person came willingly.

Yeah, the woman was Marjorie Cameron who had been to Parsons house before but they had never spoken.

This time, they took things to the next level and fell in love and of course, part of that included performing sex magic.



I just want to say are we still on the the Catholic twist thing because this is kind of feeling pseudo.

Christian hmm in what way because every Christian right now is having well many aneurysm that you’re even saying that but that’s fine whatever.

Sorry time out like a A Virgin Mary said.




Like it feels like he thinks he’s God and now a woman has shown up and he’s like I’m going to impregnate you with my demigod baby.

Okay I’m interested I see what you’re saying here.

Yes that feels Virgin Mary if by the way equally as crazy as the original version, Mary story.


So sorry if I’m blowing all the Christians Minds out there but they’re both not making sense to me.

Yeah, hmm.

I can definitely see the Here that you would have a woman who is basically carrying.


I see it.

I see it.


Thank you.

Thank you.

You’re so welcome.

I validate your views on this story Parsons believed.

He was fulfilling the next part of the Babylon working by trying to conceive.

The moon child.

It has a name now the moon child.


Okay, but it seems that Marjorie.

Cameron didn’t quite know about this goal.

So now I’m starting to get a little, it feels a little fishy now.

That she showed up said, I will carry the Incarnate to be fair, all of this is very confusing and I imagine that in it.


There’s probably day-to-day things that don’t add up.

So I can’t blame anybody for being confused but yeah, apparently trying to conceive.

The moon child, she didn’t realize this was the goal and then on February 22nd.

Parsons wrote to Aleister Crowley to tell him the news about Marjorie, and how is experiments were working.


I would pay big money to get my hands on that letter.

I think it would be so wild to be able to Like see that by March of 1946 Jack Parsons had reportedly completed.

The final parts of the rituals in the Mojave Desert, but in the end, although no moon, child was conceived.


Parsons believed Babylon.

Working was a success.

And that Marjorie Cameron herself was an elemental Spirit of Babylon.


So we are doubling down like the proper cultists, we are.

Okay, like it things.

You didn’t have a moon child to show for it, but he Still.


Yeah, doubled down and said don’t worry I did it right.

Okay, well this is what I wanted to happen from beginning to end.

This guy sounds like he’s got a real superiority complex so I guess I’m not surprised.

Up next was it all a success?


Hmm, we have all the spoilers about what happened after Jack Parsons got out of the desert and stopped trying to bring spirits to life at this point.

Folks, I have no idea what to expect.


You’ll be shocked to find out that blonde working was not quite the great success that Jack Parsons thought it was surprised.

Yeah, of Heroes.

It must be a lag or delay in the audio, because your gas became a little better than expected.

I was actually just still processing.

I was like, this.

Can’t be hang.

Oh, I see you in a bit Mi for a second.


I got it.

Well, he thought it would be this huge success after he finished the rituals to turn the goddess of sexuality.

Blonde into a human unfortunately.

He didn’t have much to show for the success and to be fair if you remember Aleister, Crowley was wary of Parsons experiments the whole time.


So when Parsons wrote to tell him, the good news about Babylon, working Babylon, working working, I guess, oh, Crowley thought he was overestimating himself, so even Aleister Crowley.

Who had seen you?

No, such promise.

In this man is really questioning questioning the results and a shocking Twist of events.


Events you and I agree with Aleister Crowley.

Whoa, I told you you’d be shocked and awed, a few months later, Parsons.


What an interesting twist was no longer Lodge master of Agape, Lodge Number Two drama, but I feel like Crowley was kind of gung-ho about this guy.


From the beginning like put said, you can perform all the advanced Sex Magic you want.

Take over.

You have my blessing and now it sort of feels like oh your experiment didn’t work.

Well, let’s just take him out of the equation and we don’t want his likes the stain on a reputation.


Almost, I don’t know.

That’s just that’s just my insight.

That makes me feel like, Aleister, Crowley was hoping that the Babylon working was going to work and I’m not on the side of Aleister Crowley anymore.

Yeah, I thought we were, I mean, it’s hard to know because like clearly Parsons failed and then Aleister Crowley was like, oh yeah, I’m not.


I’m not part of the, you know, I feel like it’s easy to hindsight.


Remove yourself.

One yappity failed at something.

Even if you were like gung ho about in the beginning, kind of distance yourself.

I feel like Crowley was like, go back to building Jets or something.

Go back to your rocket science.


Okay, so yeah, there was some drama Jack Parsons no longer Lodge master and this is a fun little personal aside, Parsons ended up marrying Marjorie Cameron in October 1946.

I think you have to after that kind of trauma Bond, I guess you’ve bonded over Something he later said, he believed he was mistaken.


That Marjorie would be the mother of an incarnation of Babylon and that actually, she was Babylon herself.

Oh, look at those heels, just digging in that.

Is he fun?

Okay, yeah, it’s no wonder people try to distance themselves.

I sort of feel like he took it really far and then he wouldn’t back down and I think gave Aleister Crowley maybe an easy Doorway to say.


All right, we’re gonna push away from this whole thing you’ve got going On in your pouch, so Jack Parsons died, seven years later in June of 1950 to and Marjorie for what it’s worth held on to his belief that she was Babylon in human form.


So even she believed it about herself, which I guess you’d have to I’m glad they found each other, right?

They really were fit like a match made in heaven.

Yeah, I think that’s probably the wildest ride you’ve taken me on so far.

I am glad I ordered coffee earlier because I feel like my brain needs a little jolt after trudging through that.


It With period blood cakes and the ended with things so wild that I totally forgot about the period blood cakes for exactly when you know, things went off the rails.


I feel like that should have been the craziest thing I’ve heard in the last hour.

But no and yet and yet that was certainly a doozy.


I’m going to still run with the word silly.

I’m going to say very silly that I’m on the silly scale.

You know, I would even argue to bring back your other word you used earlier, which is a humdinger Ha ha ha.

Yeah, we could we could insert a lot of words.

It’s at this.


I think those are maybe the to dices.

I think it’s also interesting that he is a man of science and therefore brought in the Whatsit the scientific process or the yeah.

This is what I was talking about earlier where you fly little too close to the sun because I think he ended up trying to incorporate data into this and ended up ruining people’s opinion of it.


I feel like if we had never tried Babylon, working Aleister Crowley.

I never really believed, it could have still happened or something, that’s a good point.

Like if he hadn’t kind of inserted himself and said science will do it and then failed majestically failed.

Maybe this belief system would have lived on and you would be neighbors with this place.


I almost want to be on his side because he took something so bananas.

And I respect that.

He was like, okay, well let’s put that into practice then and see how real it is.

I don’t know if he was doing it more of a science expecting Heat.

Truly believed it.

Oh yeah.


If he set the framework of like, okay, well as a scientist, let’s test this Theory out, I could have respected him being interested in this stuff for a lot longer before I judged him.

It reminds me of the spr where they tried to.

I mean to be fair the spr is much more analytical.


I would say, I think Jack Parsons like you said, really did believe this and was doing like 11 days of rituals and things that the spr probably wasn’t necessarily on.

With, but it is a similar idea of like a scientist coming in to prove or disprove a theory or hypothesis and he once again failed pretty magnificently in my opinion, not in his own.


I think that’s the other problem, though.

Is that as a scientist?

You would think once he had.

Yeah, but something in the practice and it didn’t work, he should have like, ran with the data, right?

Instead of just like, had some weird faith-based conviction about.

Yeah, that’s a good point.

He didn’t really follow the scientific method because I think the scientific method I would argue would maybe promote saying maybe I was wrong my head, how this is probably wasn’t right.


Not gonna know.

I was right all along, but it wasn’t a moon child, baby.

It was my wife.

She’s actually a goddess of sexuality.


I mean, you know.


I feel like if he didn’t own his own Corporation, I think at work, he might have been taken down a couple ranks with some based on like, how stood.



I think based on his like lack of keeping The the scientific formulas.

I don’t know.

The right word is I think scientific method is the thing that he really press through out the window.

You know, like that he should have stuck to that a little more.

That’s the first tenet of being a scientist and I feel like he was like, nope, never mind.


Actually, never mind.

Actually I have better things to do and it’s to create a moon child baby.

He also does sound like a narcissist to begin with.

So it doesn’t surprise me that he could be the literally one of the smartest people in the world that sounds like.

And he was like, ah, that means I know better than the actual science.



That means I’m going to force a goddess to become a human against her.

Will, this was a wild ride.

Christine Thanks so much for listening.


We’ll be back next week with another great episode information.

On today’s episode came, from the Oto, Vice LA s, The Babylon working 1946.

L.ron Hubbard.

John Whiteside Parsons and the practice of Anunnaki and Magic by Henrik Bogdan, the collected writings of Jack Parsons and an article, the journal sensor titled, the Gnostic l.ron Hubbard, was he?


Influenced by Aleister Crowley, remember to follow rituals on Spotify to get a brand new episode every week and you can listen to this and all other episodes of rituals for free exclusively on Spotify.

And if you liked this show, follow at Park asked on Facebook and Instagram and at podcast Network on Twitter, you can find me at the M Schultz and you can find me a text and Schieffer.


Thanks again for listening and we will see you next week.

Rituals is executive produced by Max Cutler and is a Spotify original from par cast.

It was created by Max color.

Sound design by Kristen Acevedo with associate sound design by Jamie Ryan fact-checking by Hayley Milliken fact-checking by Claire Cronin research by Chelsea.


Would it’s produced by Kristen Acevedo and Jonathan Ratliff with production assistants by Ron Shapiro.

We are your host, Christine Schieffer, and M Schultz