0:06

You know that feeling when you see someone so talented, smart driven, just crashing It All Around Me, Christine that it makes you wonder what you’re doing with your life.

Yeah, it’s like a year living in a permanent Shadow sounds familiar.

It does I feel for you often know really?

0:21

Is there anybody in your world that you admire particularly?

Yeah I mean a lot of people It’ll cool.

I don’t know on the spot I’m thinking like, wow, a lot of my friends and family I’m just I’m very proud of and impressed by.

0:39

Do you like an idol at all?

I’m trying to think like, who’s yours?

Well, I knew to ask you, I didn’t think about mine.

I think my Tick-Tock algorithm would probably tell you, it’s like, Zendaya or Jennifer Garner or something.

Forgotten our.

Wow, she’s an American Dream.

0:55

Agreed, okay, perfect.

Well, today we’re going to talk about let’s call her the gentleman.

Garner of the spiritualist worlds that sentence has never been uttered by anyone on a history of the world and I’m really proud of you for making it happen.

Jennifer Garner, if you’re listening or Zendaya, probably Zendaya, is actually probably more fitting here, but it’s because this person can sing writes, music plays the piano, she’s an actor.

1:17

Journalist author, philanthropist activist.

Oh also this badass woman talks to the Dead who?

Okay, I’ve no idea who this is, it’s Jennifer Garner.

No.

Ok, so my Tick Tock algorithm is Letting me down, if that’s the case.

1:44

Hi everyone, and welcome to rituals a Spotify original from par cast.

I’m M Schultz and I’m Christine cheaper and every week, we’ll explore the evolution of spiritualism and the Occult through stories practices and the impact on Modern culture.

We are talking about not Jennifer Garner today, folks, but Emma Harding, Britain, who is a woman-101?

2:07

She wore a lot.

Hats?

A few of them involved.

Spookie ookie, spiritualism she really is.

As I was reading it, I was getting more and more impressed, so I’m very excited to teach you all about her today.

Cristina, I can’t wait, I’m already enthralled with this person.

I’ve never even heard of.

If she were alive today, she would also be on my Tick.

2:25

Tock algorithm.

Probably just put it that way.

So, let’s crack into it.

2:42

What do you remember?

This is a while back, but we’ve also covered it on and that’s why we drink.

What do you remember about the fox sisters?

Okay.

Well this is actually a topic that for whatever reason really sticks in my mind.

And I think it’s because they use their little creepy toes.

2:58

Talking sounds on the ground and then I said to you, I can do that.

And you went I don’t believe you but I I want to know and I don’t want to know.

And so I demonstrated it for you and you’ve really never gotten over it.

And I think maybe that’s why I remember the fox sisters so.

Well, they were from Rochester, New York, okay great.

3:16

You’ve given two facts so far.

So here’s the thing, I’m going to officially delete everything I had planned to say because you just said it all, we really do. we talk to each other way too often and you’re in my brain, we spend way too much time, it’s bad, but all I had written about the fox sisters was your creepy, effing feet and So for people who need a quick catch-up, they are two sisters from upstate.

3:44

New York, who were credited with basically, the creation of modern spiritualism because they were the first of their kind to go out on tour and and show their skills of how they could connect with the spirits.

And they did a through all these wrappings where, and wrappings means tappings, apparently.

4:02

And it’s just old jargon not like Snoop Dogg.

They didn’t get like crazy.

On the rap scene at drop the mic, it was more like there, it was knockings, right?

They went on tour with this and were able to ask questions and perform in front of people that these Spirits could actually communicate with them.

4:21

Mmm-hmm and Christine’s feet somehow get involved here because we find out later that it was very likely to be a hoax.

What happened with the fox sisters?

I would argue, like, I feel 99%.

Sure it was a hoax.

Same.

I know is because one of them had some like weird double jointed foot or something, where they could.

4:39

Like a knock on the floor.

And so, nobody was paying attention to their feet.

You’re saying it.

Like, I haven’t shown it to you, like, I can literally do that.

And So Christine showed it to me.

I didn’t think it was physically anatomically possible, and yet, I had to experience it and none of you have to, before you whip your little toes out, but I wouldn’t do that to them.

4:59

Only you, whatever a sight for sore eyes is for your ears.

That’s what it was.

It was a rough time for all of us.

So that is the only member you and I have of the fox sisters.

Unfortunately, thank you for that.

You’re welcome.

And the only reason I bring them up is because the rise of Emma Harding.

5:15

Britain happens around the same era.

So as spiritualism really started to take root in the collective Consciousness, this is where she’s sitting on the timeline.

Okay?

I’m excited to hear about her.

Just throwing it out here.

Can you imagine living in that time?

At all, if you were to Quantum Leap into like the era, the early era is of spiritualism, I would love to be a fly on the wall.

5:36

I would love to hop back and sterile, okay?

In a city.

You’d like to be in ml for all the sites.

I’m very Team New York’s.

I feel like a lot of if there were going to be any shows on spiritualism, I feel like you could catch a lot of them very quickly and maybe London, London York, oh definitely London.

5:55

I wouldn’t want to take the boat back and forth, though, I’ll tell you that much.

Well, you know, the haunted Queen Mary used to travel between New York and England and I just get so seasick.

I’m like not today.

You could have your own ghost experience to and fro Your seances, I could be the ghost wrap it in the corner, you know, dropping beats.

6:15

You be my backup.

I also wanted to say, if I did live in that time, I could probably give the fox sisters a run for their money and be yeah, with your little, your little ankle cracks, or whatever you do, or I could be the Houdini and be like, I know what they’re up to watch.

6:32

I’ll prove it.

You could have made enemies so quickly with them, or you could have fun formed an alliance, you could have shown up in a dark shadow, Corner and been, like, I know your schemes and I want in it sounds more like I was blackmailing them but, you know, either way I could get down for sure.

It’s like you’d be the fourth Fox sister.

6:48

You be like the bonus, Jonas of the fox sisters.

Look at me go.

Okay, well anyway, alternate reality where that happened.

I would like to see a soon in my life like to take a glimpse.

Alright, so back to Emma, Emma Harding.

Britain was kg when I came to details about her early life, spiritualist, Scholars, gathered, a bunch of hints from her and others to try to reconstruct the years before she became a public figure.

7:14

There’s a bunch of contradictory information out there but here’s some of what we could gather about her life leading up to her Fame.

And by what we could gather, I mean, the park asked researchers, that was earlier just handle this show.

So thank you all, so, so much for everything you do next level so they were able to uncover some details that I now get to a eloquently spell out to you definitely eloquent for sure.

7:38

For sure for sure.

As the last sentence I said, was like bonus, Jonas.

So Emma was born, Emma, Floyd and 1823 in London.

So you would have had prime seating at maybe one of her first events.

Amazing Emma described herself as an unusual child.

7:57

Are you already relating to her Christine?

Maybe this was me in a past life.

Well, in her autobiography, she said that she didn’t have a typical light-hearted youth because she preferred Third, quote, the Solitude of woods and Fields and she loved walking through a churchyards cathedral Cloisters and old monastic ruins.

8:17

Which well, I would too if those existed around, I was gonna say that I feel like you can still connect with her so far and the story that I’m so on board as someone who grew up in a cemetery, that’s her.

I’d love to just walk through, I found it so peaceful, she would have totally been friends with you.

8:33

She would have used you for your house, probably how she would he use me for my house.

Yeah.

Well, what do you use her for her monastic?

And so yeah, it would have been a Tale As Old As Time match made in heaven.

So while she was being a loner in the woods she said that she could hear strange sounds in the form of Exquisite music and she’d Hear Voices telling her Prophecies of future events especially incoming misfortunes.

8:59

Oh dear, I am aware of the red flag here for mental illness.

Yeah, but so far.

That’s that’s all we know that she could hear Prophecies of future events and I got to tell you, Yeah, she was kind of right sometimes.

So yeah.

So when Emma was 11, her father died and she had a really hard time with his death and ended up having to support her family by teaching music, which she hated doing, but probably felt obligated at 11 to start helping out with the family.

9:26

That’s so sad.

And in her autobiography, Emma said that she was thinking about drowning herself in a river, but she heard her father’s voice.

Stop her by telling her to go back to school.

Oh, that’s Scary and sad.

Yeah, so even if hearing voices is probably not a great indicator of, you know, something else going on there, at least this one stopped tragedy from happening.

9:53

She later claimed that her late father became one of her Spirit guides so beautiful.

Yeah, it’s nice that she sees him.

Always looking out for her and by her early teens in English, magical Society.

Called Hogwarts.

10:08

No known as the orphic circle, caught wind of Emma and her abilities.

And the group was known for the occult and working with Clairvoyant, people and Emma.

Apparently served as a clairvoyant for them for several years.

Oh, and sorry.

How old was she at this point in her early teens.

10:26

Wow.

So she was very young and they were already spread rumors about her.

This does sound a little like horse.

Yeah, they’re like a mysterious owl appeared on her.

So so still in her teenage years em, eventually started a new life with her mother in Paris studying music.

10:46

And so, remember her father’s message to her and said go back to school.

Yeah.

So now she’s studying music.

And she’s building a career as a Pianist and composer the owner of a piano company allowed her to practice in his showroom to bring in customers.

It’s fun.

11:02

Yeah, I feel like that’s a little I scratch your back.

You scratch mine.

Yeah.

You might as well have people here at And when I practice piano, it was like, every third note was wrong.

So I don’t think he would have enjoyed my practice sessions, but I’m sure she was seemed very talented so she probably was a better live musician.

11:18

But yeah, baby.

She was on top of her game, a little more when she was playing piano in the showroom for customers.

Emma said that she knew what song to play before, someone would even request it.

So she’s got this cool little bar trick now where she’s just playing songs as they’re being played in someone’s head.

11:36

She like All right, is cool.

That’s a cool party trick for sure.

And if the only voices you’re hearing are other people’s favorite songs that’s fine by me.

Yeah.

I mean it seems so far.

I mean, I know you mentioned earlier, impending, doom.

So we haven’t got to that yet but the positive stuff I’m into.

11:53

Yeah, unfortunately, this freak term other out because I guess she was bragging about her party trick and she became convinced that this was all for evil forces.

So so her Mom said, this is not going to work.

So she took Emma back to London where Emma started working as an actor instead, I feel bad for Emma because if she was there studying music and trying to fulfill something her father had told her to do, and now she’s being pulled out.

12:21

Yeah, and being kind of, told to not get into music or cold.

It’s a bad thing.

It’s evil.

Yeah, so she becomes an actor instead, and there are still questions about how Emma Floyd as she was known at the time.

12:38

Becomes Emma Harding.

Okay.

Okay.

She wrote about being married at 15 and then becoming a widow at 18 which you know that’s a dark time.

Definitely.

Yeah.

For sure.

But there’s no official proof or receipts of a marriage or whether it’s like behind the name change or anything like that.

12:58

So we don’t really know if that’s how she got the last name from Floyd to Harding.

There is also speculation that Emma was linked to an English.

And named dr.

Harding and he I guess placed ads for spirit manifestations and seances by a medium and his family at his home in 1853.

13:18

So he had put this ad in the paper and maybe she had worked for him and changed her name to Harding that way.

And some archives her name is spelled Harding without an e at the end.

So people think the lettering change maybe someone was misspelling a stage name or Something like that as she was getting bigger.

13:39

So we really don’t know where the name comes from.

Its so I hate not knowing things, especially kind of like, trivial things like not try not to this trivial but, you know, something that doesn’t in the long run.

Really make a big difference, but I’m just like, why?

Why, why did she change it?

I want to know the wild thing is I have absolute full absolute confidence that five minutes after we stop this episode.

14:02

Christine’s going to get on Google and figure it out.

Like there’s my God we’re gonna have to do like We’re gonna do pickups.

I’m now orchestrating the pickups on this episode.

We got to come back and re discuss this topic.

Once I’ve gotten to the bottom of it, it’s my favorite thing.

I’ll always brag about you with that but like when they say like oh your ex-girlfriend could find out the blood type of you’re the girl who held your hand five years ago.

14:27

Yeah, is.

Christine cheaper through and through and you just always know how to make me feel proud and big, you know?

And not at all chaotic and unhealthy know, exactly, no.

Never.

But anyway, I expect a full report in 24 hours on how she got the last name.

14:44

Harding, thank you so much tastic.

So In 1855 at this point she’s 31 or 32 right around our age and Emma and her mother went to New York because Emma was invited to perform on Broadway, which, like, okay, Flex like, hey, casually something had to have happened between then and now for you to be able to just hop onto Broadway Way.

15:06

I’m very proud of her, maybe it would have followed her on that boat.

Queen Mary.

You know, they’re making the big Trek she would have been performing on the ship on her way there to do another performance and how fun it was at this point.

That Emma said she really became involved in the modern spiritualism movement but not before having some major doubts about it all Coming up an unexpected, turn of events, Emma plans, a takedown of a newfangled idea called spiritualism, that sweeping Across America, okay, talk about a plot twist.

15:40

I did not see this coming five seconds ago.

I threw down this plot twist that she’s on Broadway.

But now I bring this up and it’s your little brain must be like a pinball just like did it is whiplash whiplash.

Every unsolved crime leaves us with a nagging sense that just one witness one piece of evidence, one additional lead, could change everything.

16:08

Hi, I’m Carter, Roy.

Host of the Spotify original from par cast, cold cases every Monday revisit some of the most puzzling crimes in history.

A vast array of offenses that ran cold for decades, from burglary and arson to kidnappings and murders.

16:25

Murder each episode of Cold cases pieces together, the details of an elusive case.

Some eventually had breakthroughs that close the file others remain open to this day solved or unsolved.

16:41

You won’t know which until the very end, follow cold cases free and only on Spotify.

17:02

Around the mid 1800s.

The spiritualist movement was really taking off in America when Emma arrived to perform on Broadway.

But despite her own spiritualists, childhood experiences Emma wasn’t a Believer at first, which is wild some me because I was like, you straight up, heard your dad talking to you, you were able to read people’s minds and play music for them.

17:21

Like, but I wonder if it was almost seeing, like, the way, we don’t believe some of the stuff like because it was like stuff coming out of people’s noses, like the fake right plasm.

And like a lot of it was just so So, ridiculously showy.

I wonder if like if you had a genuine gift internally that you might look at that and be like, that isn’t real, you know what I mean, right?

17:41

Right.

Or maybe some sort of imposter syndrome or I don’t know where she was on that.

But apparently she really wasn’t a big believer and she actually planned to write an article for an English paper discrediting.

Spiritualism interesting.

Wow, she visited a medium named JB Conklin.

17:58

Hua.

President Abraham, Lincoln was a friend of and worked with See, but it did not go well shortly after she arrived.

She freaked out and ran out of the place before.

She could even get a reading.

Oh, Manuel some biographies.

Clean that she heard a message herself, which horrified her, because she had to reconcile the fact that she had these gifts, right?

18:20

Others suggest that she just found the whole thing Blasphemous.

Remember she was with a mom who was telling her that all these things rival, right?

But it affected her either way and in her biography.

She reflected on the experience saying, how it’s easier to run away instead of asking questions.

18:37

When something challenges your faith, she’s right about that.

Yeah, makes sense.

When you’re like I dip out.

Bow out, don’t want this overwhelming.

Yeah, yeah.

And a theater friend, took her to visit another medium when she apparently got a message from her brother who had been dead for ten years.

18:54

Oh, my.

And when she told her mother, what happened, her mother finally came around to the idea of spiritualism and mediumship.

Wow.

So that can The mom because she was hearing from her son, who passed.

Wow, that’s interesting.

And then Emma saw another a third medium who helped her develop her own talents as a Channeler.

19:13

So she’s finally embracing it at this point.

I like that.

It’s getting better.

The first one.

She ran straight out of there.

The second one she’s like oh this is getting weird.

And the third one she’s like I’ll be your mentee.

You be my mentor.

She’s warming into a definitely.

Yeah.

And still in her early 30s.

19:28

Emma was able to give powerful readings.

Keep in mind this all started when she was like 31 and now still in her like early 30s.

So, within the last handful of years, she goes from being terrified of this thing to giving, powerful readings, and starting to hold free seances as her contract with Broadway came to an end.

19:45

And I find that very powerful because it’s, it’s sort of she didn’t go into it.

Thinking, I’m going to fool all these people.

It was sort of like, I don’t know if I believe any of this, and then coming to her own conclusion.

Yeah, I don’t know, I find that more convincing that she It off.

20:02

Not wanting to believe it.

I agree with you.

I think it says something about her character where she was like I’m out.

I don’t want this.

It like lends Credence to her actually being able to do these things in my mind.

Yeah.

And also it shows if this is accurate and she really does have these gifts, I’m just to, you know, play Devil’s Advocate there, but if she was able to actually have all these gifts, the fact that she went from being completely closed off to letting herself be open to it at all.

20:29

And all of a sudden, she’s super powerful.

Like it’s just shows like it was like knocking at the door ready to go and it was rapping rapping at the door.

It was rapping with its little ankles or something.

So Emma soon found herself working for yet.

Another society that I’m sure I would have applied to in some way and they soon found herself working with the society for the diffusion of spiritual knowledge which was the first official spiritualist Society on the record in the US.

20:58

Whoa, fun fact there and she became the editor of its Magazine, the magazine is called the Christian spiritualist and she was a pretty successful spiritualist writer and had speaking engagements across the US, where she would go into a trance and share insights from her Spirit guides.

21:15

Oh, okay.

And it sounds like other mediums.

We’ve covered including the fox sisters where she went on tour, right?

Okay, like doing live, audience type lines, okay.

One Seance in 1856, made her really famous because she reportedly got A message that a ship called the Pacific had sunk with everyone on board.

21:36

Oh no.

And she claimed the message came from a drowned crew member.

Oh my gosh.

Oh my goodness.

And the owners of the ship itself were not on board, and they threatened to sue her.

They were like, that is not true and then it was revealed that she was right in the ship was never heard of again.

21:54

Oh my God.

Yep!

Whoa, that’s pretty shocking.

So after that she really Had people on their toes I guess.

Yeah.

Word of Emma’s Talent spread and she was soon in high demand back in England and she would spend the rest of her life.

22:10

Going between England and America for her work.

Wow!

She ended up finding a very important career or less impressive.

Yeah.

And the years that followed really cemented Emma’s Legacy as the single most influential historian and advocate of spiritualism in the entire 19th century.

22:27

Wow, have you heard of her before literally?

No, and I don’t know what’s wrong with me.

But like, I had neither, I mean, not that I’ve written her name down because I have to learn more about this person.

Yeah, seriously, this is really fascinating.

So in 1870 Emma, Harding, published the book, modern American spiritualism and a covered the early history of the spiritualist movement which is interesting because it was only an 1870s.

22:51

So she really covered like blogger couple decades and like today’s world I feel like are like, modern American spiritualism would have to cover so much more time.

So I feel like it’s actually probably a very Detailed book on such a condensed time frame.

Yeah.

The very early days.

23:06

Yeah.

And during a lecture in 1871, she laid out a set of principles that she claimed were given to her from the spirits cool.

And they eventually evolved into the seven principles of spiritualism, which the spiritualist church adopted and still references to this day.

23:22

Okay, are you going to tell me them?

I sure am.

And I’m not going to let you guess because we could really get off on a tangent somewhere.

I would not even try.

Okay, so the seven principles of Of spiritualism are the fatherhood of God, the Brotherhood of Man, the communion of spirits, and the ministry of angels, The Continuous existence of the human soul.

23:43

Think that’s my favorite one, I like that.

The next one number five is just like a umbrella term.

I think for personal responsibility it’s just a ha ha ha just know where you where you stand here?

Hmm.

The next one is compensation and retribution Hereafter for all the good and evil deeds done on earth.

24:01

Oh, My that sounds like something I would want to look into and then the last one is eternal progress, open to every human soul.

I gotta say that really sounds like a lot of the stuff, you know, that you hear about in the akashic records and your soul growing and developing Life After Life.

24:18

But kind of matches up, I don’t love the use of Brotherhood and man but you know, yeah, I quickly went through those.

I was like, that’s it’s time we just go.

Yeah, I do think, I mean, if those seven principles were college courses, I would definitely Sign up for all seven and just try to put together how they all fit?

24:35

Yeah, very interesting.

I would, especially like to take the class on compensation retribution.

Hereafter for all the good and you call these Catholic School.

I’ve been there done that.

Oh, okay, good, C average, and all of those.

So if you wanted my old notes, I probably have them somewhere.

Yes, I would love your C average notes on all that information.

24:53

Yeah, good point.

It’s not I’m not really offering much sorry.

Well, I guess the church isn’t questioning too much of it.

The spiritualist church because they haven’t really met That since 1871 they still use the same list.

That’s amazing.

And Emma also contributed to the growing calls to unite, the various spiritualist groups across the country into a National Organization.

25:13

And she wrote about this to Flexes in one sentence.

She wrote about this in Two Worlds magazine which she also founded in 1887, look at her go man.

She’s powerful on top of it.

25:29

And by the way, let’s rewind for a moment, too. 1870, when she acquired a partner, both personally and professionally.

Ooh, La La and she married, William Britain who was also a staunch spiritualist when she was 47 years old and they married in New Jersey, okay?

25:46

So we know where that name came from.

I’m glad we finally have some evidence of where these random names are coming from.

Finally Britain make sense?

Yes but Harding okay that’s up to you as of as soon as we hang up in 1878 Emma and William went on a mission to Australia and New Zealand where they set up churches and founded spiritualist groups.

26:05

And this was 40 years before Arthur Conan Doyle came through on a similar Mission.

So Emma’s work is going strong and it’s ahead of its time and I’m just impressed because I feel like we hear about all these other people Arthur Conan Doyle and they just get more recognition, even though she was doing it for two years before.

26:22

It’s really amazing.

That we hadn’t heard of her before.

Now, if you think Emma Harding, Eaton was an impressive woman up till this point, You Ain’t Seen Nothing Yet up next.

26:38

How Emma’s impact stretched far beyond the occult?

How much farther can a stretch?

The limit does not exist, I guess not.

27:06

Emma was a good speaker writer and thinker and she was well-traveled, but her interests went beyond the occult.

She could lecture on Politics as easily as she could on Rosicrucianism, which is saying a lot if you call our episode on Rosicrucianism.

Oh yeah, she was a founding member of the fish.

27:21

Topical Society, she was interested in different medical theories, as much as she was interested in like Spirit photography.

Wow, she worked on political campaigns.

Championing causes including anti-slavery and women’s rights.

She worked to set up a home for outcasts women to learn new skills.

27:40

And after lecturing her way through the u.s. to California, she was hired by the union party to give campaign speeches, supporting Lincoln’s re-election.

Whoa, and she delivered a eulogy for President Lincoln in New York, only a few days.

After his assassination, I could not have guessed all that.

27:56

I mean, that is amazing.

Imagine if she were to create like a hinge profile today of love, this is like what I’m about, what are you about?

And then we’d all just kind of close the app.

It’s like I don’t I don’t even know where to go with this.

This is I like out of my definition of out of my league truly.

28:13

I’d be like, can’t even think about taking you out because what would I have to offer?

How our house?

Mm, you know who she was get along with is a Sarah Winchester, probably.

Oh yeah, yeah.

Sarah Winchester of the Winchester Mystery House was just as powerful and just as on the right side of History it seemed so like ahead of their time, you know?

28:34

So maybe they would have been historians.

Could have called them best friends.

I don’t know, maybe they could just been best friends but whatever.

So Emma and her husband William moved to Manchester England and the 1880s and semi-retired if you can call it that because around 1884, she Pushed another detailed account of spiritualism and America a book called 19th century Miracles.

28:57

Oh, that sounds cool.

And then Emma continued to give lectures and right until she died at 76 in 1899.

Oh wow.

She didn’t even make it to the turn of the century.

She was so close but she’s probably already seen it.

If you know I’m saying like she’s saying it’s not that great.

29:13

Should I time to wrap it up?

We gotta go.

But yeah, that’s Emma.

Harding Britain.

I mean, it’s definitely been interesting.

I guess you could call it a wrap.

To riches story of definitely a darker tone in the beginning, with her dad dying.

And she felt kind of stuck.

I imagine she felt like, she either didn’t have a purpose or if she had one.

29:32

Now, she didn’t take care of her family and being scared of her abilities.

And then she just goes straight to like girl, boss girl balls, girl boss.

Yeah, I mean, just the fact that it sounds like a movie that she rejected her gifts and it’s like, any of those classic superhero movies where they there’s only really powerful and they’re like No And they try to avoid it.

29:51

It sounds like she She was kind of scared of her own power, and then lead into it after that.

Yeah.

And I very much appreciate that of that time, especially she was self-made.

Mmm, she didn’t need a man.

She got herself, a man after she was already a Powerhouse.

Yeah, which I love that for her.

30:07

A professional and personal partner.

How fun is that?

Yeah, I also like that also says, a lot about the man to of like, you’re not scared of that kind of star power.

Oh yeah, you couldn’t be, you know, keep up.

Tell, you know, you found a good one.

Hmm, do you?

Find it curious.

30:23

Because here is where like if you wanted to be skeptical of her abilities, you can certainly insert the idea of like she acted as a child.

And as a young adult and she knew how to perform she had some sort of stage presence and she had just probably seen or heard of the fox sisters doing this kind of thing.

30:44

So I mean do you think that she could have seen what potential she had and just kind of went on?

Door and started making this all into Marvin act.

Yeah I mean I can see why that would have maybe helped her become as well known as she was.

31:00

But I still feel like the fact that she originally was dead set on debunking all of this and then ended up believing it.

And even the fact that she was almost an academic like writing the history of the movement, like doesn’t really strike me as like a con artist move.

31:18

Yeah, so yeah, I can see why that would kind of play in, but maybe Her acting past was just a way for her to utilize her talents to a broader audience.

Like maybe she knew how to put on a show with her real talents.

Well, also, I was going to say she had actual talents, but then her stage presence could have helped her out like on the lecture circuit or with with our campaigns and when she was trying to be an activist and all that when she was an activist and you know, right, it was definitely maybe at least in terms of presentation or public speaking or something.

31:49

I’m sure it helped.

Yeah.

So, I don’t know, I’m sure there’s people out there who could say, like, she felt like me to take care of her family, and provide.

So maybe she just did what she could with what she had.

But I’m with you, I feel like there is a level of Integrity that she showed early on.

32:05

That makes me feel like if there are legitimate mediums out there, I would put her on the list.

Yes, I love that.

I totally agree.

Anyway.

That’s, I’m a Harding Britain, so I’m very excited to look more into her because I feel like talk about a life, there’s no way we could give her the Full-depth.

32:22

She probably deserves in a short amount of time so I’m excited to go learn the ins and outs of how she came to be, do our own kind of Deep dive.

Yeah, I’m definitely going to look into her as well.

She sounds fascinating.

Yeah, definitely.

32:44

Thanks so much for listening.

We’ll be back next week with another great episode information.

On today’s episode came from east end, women’s museum, autobiography of Emma, Harding, Britain, spirited Pioneer, the life of Emma Harding, Britain by Lisa, a how spiritualists National Union and the Unseen worlds of Emma, Harding, Britain, some chapters in the history of Western occultism, remember to follow.

33:05

Follow rituals on Spotify to get a brand new episode every week and you can listen to this and all other episodes of rituals for free exclusively on Spotify.

And if you liked this show, follow at Park asked on Facebook and Instagram and at podcast Network on Twitter, you can find me at VM Schultz and you can find me at Eckstein Schieffer.

33:23

Thanks again for listening and see you next week.

Rituals is executive produced by Max Cutler and is a Spotify original from podcast.

It was created by Max color sound designed by Kristen Acevedo with associate.

Sound design by Me Ryan research by Sapphire Williams fact-checking by Catherine Barner.

33:40

It’s produced by Kristen Acevedo, and Jonathan Ratliff with production assistants by Ron Shapiro.

We’re your host, Christine cheaper and M Schultz.

Hi, I’m Carter.

Roy.

Post of these Spotify original from par cast, cold cases every Monday explore, the many types of crime.

34:00

The many ways, they remain unsolved and how long it takes to find the answers if ever solved or unsolved.

He won’t know which until the very end, follow cold cases, free and only on Spotify.