What is a Woman

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(machine beeps) (dramatic music)

(static hissing)

(gentle upbeat music)

(group chattering)

(air blowing)

  • [Matt] Being a dad is one

of the great privileges of my life.

(confetti thuds)

Give my son a BB gun,

and that’s just about all the emotional support he needs.

My daughter on the other hand,

I’ve heard people say that there are no differences

between male and female, those people are idiots.

I’m a husband.

I’m a father of four.

I host a talk show.

I give speeches.

I write books.

I like to make sense of things,

but making sense of females is a whole other matter.

Even astrophysicist, Stephen Hawking,

who could come up with a theory on black holes

was completely dumbfounded by women.

  • [Stephen] Women, they are a complete mystery.

  • [Matt] And now our culture is telling us

that the difference is between girls and boys don’t matter.

That if you identify as something,

then you are that thing.

(group chattering)

How do we help our kids make sense of this

when they’re bombarded with conflicting messages

about gender and identity?

Forget trying to figure out women,

the real question is what is a woman?

(fast tempo brooding music)

  • As you grow your body changes

from that of a young girl to that of woman.

  • [Narrator] Soon Molly will be a young woman

having dates, going to dances in lovely romantic dresses.

  • [Instructor] The boys’ shoulders are broad

and his body muscular.

While the girl’s body is more curved.

  • I’d like to know more about different kinds of hormones.

  • [Instructor] Presence of these hormones in the blood

brings about many changes in the bodies

of both boys and girls.

(group laughing)

  • Being a woman is one the things I like best about myself.

I think you’ll like it too.

(slow tempo dramatic music)

(fast tempo gentle music)

  • [Matt] I like to come out here to think.

Nature seems to always tell the truth,

even when we don’t wanna hear it.

Truth is I’m not very good at fishing.

(rod whooshing)

But what is truth?

(rod whooshes)

Is there a truth?

Is this what progress looks like?

Can my boys really become girls?

Do I have four daughters?

Do I now have to pay for four weddings?

Is there a son trapped in my daughter’s body?

If so, how do I get him out?

Are any of my kids who they claim to be?

Who are these people?

Who am I?

I better see a therapist.

(water trickling)

  • In the state of Tennessee,

I’m a licensed marital and family therapist,

which basically means I’ve been trained up

to think about like systems, family systems,

how we were raised up,

how that shapes who we are today.

  • So on your website, quote if you’ll,

if you’ll bear with me.

  • Sure.

  • Quoting, you say, “I use a combination of approaches

in my therapeutic work, including anti-oppression feminist

and narrative frameworks.”

“I rely deeply on systems theory

and understanding that individuals

are products of and in dialogue with our surroundings,

including our families, broader culture, workplaces,

nature, and political climates.”

What does that mean?

  • Yeah, so thinking about the modalities that I use,

I’m definitely informed by like feminist family therapy

and the ideas that we live in gendered worlds

where there are certain imperatives

that are placed on us about who we are and what we do

based on how we’ve been gendered.

From the minute I was assigned female, I was told,

okay, these are the kind of clothing

that you’re gonna wear.

These are the kind of the,

the type of play that you’re gonna engage in as a child.

The path that maybe your life will take

because of social expectations.

  • What do you, what do you mean by assigned female?

Who, who assigns female?

  • Yeah, so most times people when they’re born

they’re assigned a gender.

  • By the?

  • The doctor.

  • Doctors.

  • [Gert] Yeah.

  • Like what do they, what do they base that assignment on?

  • So basically it’s, it’s based on genitalia.

So people looking at genitalia and deciding,

okay, this is a, a girl or a boy.

And we know now that like that sex and gender

are so much more than just this binary.

Some women have penises, right?

Some men have vaginas.

That, that, that’s not how, how gender works.

  • How do we know that, how do we know that that’s not true?

Where, where did we, where did we learn that from?

  • Yeah, well, we, I, I learned that

from hearing from transgender people,

who’ve said like, oh, I’m a trans woman,

and just because I happen to have a penis, right,

that doesn’t mean that this is like who I am as a person or,

or that genitalia doesn’t equal gender.

Who they are, their gender, their gender expression.

That, yeah, a trans woman is a woman.

  • With the fluidity of these things,

how do I know if, if I’m a woman, you know?

I, I.

  • That’s a great question.

  • I like scented candles and-

  • Yeah.

  • I’ve watched “Sex and the City”.

  • Yeah.

  • Um.

  • Yeah.

  • So how do I know?

  • Yeah, Matt, that question right there,

like that question is like,

when it’s asked with a lot of curiosity, right?

That’s the beginning of a lot of people’s

like gender identity development journeys.

  • If my mom who gave birth to me is a woman.

  • Mm-hmm.

  • And my wife is a woman, though I haven’t asked her.

Maybe I should.

But if they’re all women

and also the boy who sits down with you and says,

I, I think I’m a girl actually is one,

then, then what is a woman?

  • Mm.


Great question.

I’m not a woman, so I, I can’t really answer that.

(brooding music)

  • I thought therapy would make me less confused.

Am I the only one feeling this way?

I need to hit the road and find out.

(gentle upbeat music) (plane engine humming)

(traffic humming)

We’re talking about gender in society.

Let me start with a real basic question.

What is a woman?

  • A woman.

(group laughs)

  • I don’t wanna assume, but you guys are all.

  • Yeah.

  • Women.

  • We’re all women.

  • Yes.

  • Yes.

  • We’re women.

  • So how would you define it, like in the simplest terms?

  • That is hard.

  • Yeah, it is, it is a stumper.

  • A woman is someone that likes to be pretty

and think of themself as a delicate creature.

  • I’m pretty and delicate.

  • Okay.

  • I could be a woman too.

  • Yes, you could.

  • Defining womanhood is just a project of someone

who identifies as a woman.

  • Yeah, but what, like, what do they identify?

You see what I’m saying?

What do they identify as?

They identify as a woman, but what is that?

  • I honestly, don’t know.

(brooding music)

  • [Matt] It’s a simple question,

so why is it so hard to answer?

This is gonna take some serious investigation.

(slow tempo jazz music)

For all of human existence women

were understood to be a certain thing,

(screen whooshes)

so what changed?

No one can seem to answer the question now.

Over 2000 surgeries and counting, Dr. Marci Bowers

is the nation’s preeminent sex change surgeon.

Surely someone who does sex change surgeries

can answer what a woman is.

(gentle upbeat music) (plane engine humming)

Dr. Marci Bowers, first of all, thanks for talking to us.

  • My pleasure.

  • So you’re a world renowned gynecologist and surgeon.

You’re also a transgender woman.

Can you tell me a little bit about-

  • No, I mean, I identify as a woman, but.

  • You’re a woman, right?

  • I’m a woman with, I mean, that’s my life day-to-day,

but I have a transgender history.

  • Hmm.

So one, one thing on your website,

it says gender affirm, GAV, gender affirming vaginal plasty.

  • Mm-hmm.

  • What is that exactly?

  • Vaginal plasty is creation of, of female,

a, a female vagina and vulva.

We’re altering the physical characteristics

of the individual to, to fit better with a gender identity

that, that is female.

  • This is all constructed from the penis?

  • Yes, that’s right.

The surgeries are quite refined in the sense

that they really not only do they look like female anatomy,

but they also function that way for the most part.

I mean, certainly it’s a bit of a Faustian bargain,

you know, it’s not perfect.

  • Does anyone ever regret their surgeries

or we know they do,

but how often do people regret their surgeries?

  • Well, actually we don’t know that they do.

There are legitimate detransitioner

and there are people who truly feel that in their journey,

they may have made a mistake.

Now, fortunately, this is a really,

really uncommon phenomenon.

  • I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of people

in the transabled community,

these are people who are physically able-bodied,

but feel like they should be disabled or identify as such.

For example, a man who has two arms,

but feels like you should have one.

If a, if a man in this kind of marginalized community

was, went to the doctor and said,

I want to have my arm cut off,

do you think that-

  • That doesn’t have anything to do with gender identity.

  • Well, it’s someone’s, someone’s self identity.

How someone identifies.

  • That’s some,

that’s someone who has a, a,

and I’ll accept it as a mental diagnosis,

a psychiatric condition.

I don’t even pretend to know

what apotemnophilia is all about.

But somehow it’s the idea that you, and, you know,

you’re fascinated or charmed by having a limb

or part of a limb missing.

  • Hmm.

  • Okay, I would say that’s, uh,

pardon my non-medical language, kooky.

  • You don’t see any, you think this is totally irrelevant?

  • Yep.

  • So the biggest broadest question is what is a woman?

  • A woman is a, you know,

it’s a combination of your physical attributes,

and then what you’re showing to the world,

and the gender clues that you give,

and hopefully those match your gender identity.

  • The critics on the other side of this,

of, of this, of this issue.

  • There aren’t many, but go ahead.

  • There aren’t many who would disagree

with what you’re saying about.

  • Well, you know, the dinosaurs of the world

are certainly out there.

  • Hmm.
  • Yeah.

(upbeat music)

  • How long have you been running the shop here?

  • 25 Years.

  • Wow.

Now you had an incident here a little while ago

that went really viral online.

Lots of reaction in the public.

  • [Reporter] Aberdeen Councilwoman Tiesa Meskis

confronted owner Don Sucher about a sign

he posted in his store.

  • One day I just put the sign up over here,

and he came around the corner,

and I thought, okay, I recognize him.

I says, “Oh, I recognize you.”

“You’re our new city councilman.”

He says, “No, I’m your new city councilwoman.”

So it was, it was kind of on from there.

  • [Tiesa] You know what?

It’s bullshit.

  • No, what your spouting is bullshit.

  • [Tiesa] No it’s not.

Transwomen are women, sir.

That sign is bullshit.

  • I’ve been doing this 25 years,

I’ve never had a problem with anybody,

whether they’re gay, transsexual, anything.

  • Now how, you’re saying councilman, he,

this individual was saying, I’m a woman.

  • Right.
  • And you said,

“You’re not a woman.”


  • Okay.

  • How do you know that that person’s not a woman?

  • How do I know?

  • Yeah.

  • Well, uh, common sense.

  • [Tiesa] Trans women are women!

  • Doesn’t, doesn’t the science say

that if someone identifies as a woman then they are.

  • No, no.

Now that’s completely bogus.

I don’t care, if you think you’re a sheep dog

and you come into my store,

it don’t matter to me.

Just don’t come in and try to shove

that shit down my throat.

  • If it makes someone feel better,

what about their, their feelings?

I mean-

  • I don’t give shit

about their feelings, I’m old.

  • What about the Star Wars universe?

Jar Jar Binks, pansexual do you think?


  • Uh, why would I, why would I even care?

  • It’s if it’s his truth.

  • Well, it ain’t true.

  • You’re not a scientist.

You’re not a gender studies major or are you?

  • No.
  • No, okay.

How do you know that you’re a man?

  • How do I know that I’m a man?

I guess, because I got a dick.

  • Huh?

(upbeat music)

Well, I guess Don isn’t overthinking it.

He admits he’s not a gender studies major

or at the very least a doctor.

Maybe I should go talk to one.

(gentle upbeat music) (plane engine humming)

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  • My name is Michelle Forcier,

um, and I have a medical degree

from University of Connecticut Residency,

University of Utah Pediatrics.

And I’ve worked for a number

of different Planned Parenthoods for 20 years.

I do advanced contraception and abortion

as well as gender hormones,

and sort of looking at the whole sort

of schema of gender, sex, and, and reproductive justice.

  • So you’ve done a lot of work in this field.

Could you just start by telling us-

  • Sure.

  • At what age can a child first begin to transition

into another gender or identify themselves

as a gender different from how they were born?

  • Yeah.

Well, I mean, there’s, there’s research

and data that show that babies and infants

understand differences in gender.

Some children figure out their gender really early,

and the reason why we are say,

oh, that’s, it’s interesting or important

is ‘cause they’re figuring out their gender identity

is not necessarily congruent

with their sexes signed at birth.

  • When the, when the doctor sees the penis and says,

this is a male, has the sex of male,

that’s an arbitrary distinction.

  • Telling that family based on that little penis

that your child is absolutely

a hundred percent male identified

no matter what else occurs in their life,

that’s not correct.

  • So what is gender affirmation care?

You’re a big proponent of,

if we walk through a child is sitting down with you

is questioning-

  • Yeah.

  • Their gender.

What’s the gender affirmation process?

  • Affirmation means that as a pediatrician,

as someone who says my job

is to provide the best medical care for you

is I need to listen really carefully.

And how I put it in words for kids

so that they can understand it is tell me your story.

Where have you been in terms of your gender

and your gender identity?

Where are you right now?

And more excitingly,

where would you like to be in the future?

  • Have you ever met a four-year-old

who believes in Santa Claus?

  • Mm-hmm.

  • So this is someone who believes

that a fat man is traveling through the sky

on a flying reindeer at lightning speed

coming down his chimney with presents.

  • Yeah.

  • Would you say that this is someone

who maybe has a tenuous grasp on reality?

  • They have an appropriate four-year-old handle

on the reality-

  • Sure, agreed.

  • That’s very real for them.

  • Agreed, agreed.

But Santa Claus is real for them but-

  • Yeah.
  • Santa Claus

is not actually real.

  • Yeah, well and, but Santa Claus

does deliver their Christmas presents.

  • Well, yeah, but he is not real though.

  • To that child they are.

  • When I see a child who, you know,

believes in Santa Claus and then let’s say,

this is a boy and he says, I’m a girl.

  • Mm-hmm.

  • This is someone who can’t distinguish

between fantasy and reality,

so how could you take that as a reality?

  • I would say that as a pediatrician and as a parent,

I would say how wonderful

my four-year-old and their imagination is.

(gentle music)

(girl laughing)

  • Aren’t kids famous for their active imaginations?

Should we really let our children define reality?

(traffic humming)

If I say that I, I feel a certain way

then obviously you can’t tell me I don’t feel that way.

  • Yeah.

  • But just because I feel that way

does that mean that it’s true?

  • I mean, if it’s your reality okay.

  • Yeah, it’s yours reality.

  • It’s truly like none of my business who you are.

  • So we all have our own-

  • Identity.

  • Realities.

What if I said, I want you to say

that it’s true that I’m a woman, would you say that?

  • That you’re a woman?

  • I would also say that.

  • If you want.

  • Yeah.

  • I honestly don’t care like whatever makes you happy.

  • [Woman] What’s true to you can be, can be false to me.

So like it, it’s the, it’s like-

  • What if I said that it’s true,

my truth is that you don’t exist,

does that mean you, you no longer exist?

  • [Woman] I mean, if that’s your truth sure.

I don’t, because it’s like-

  • But you do.

  • [Woman] Well, I mean, if you’re saying

that I do then I do.

  • Well, but even if I said that you don’t you still do

‘cause we’re, we’re having this conversation.

  • [Woman] I mean, are we?

  • I think so, I mean, I thought.

  • [Woman] That’s what you think.

(brooding music)

  • [Matt] Well, I should have known

it would be hard to define reality in Hollywood.

I should probably look to the place

where truth is the foremost pursuit,

the American university.

(slow tempo gentle music)

  • What we do in, in gender studies

is not just reduced gender

to what psychologists might call individual differences,

but rather thinking about gender.

And that’s not women and man,

but gender as a, as a social form,

something that kind of infuses itself

into virtually all aspects of social life.

  • Let’s talk about that then.

Uh, I guess we should start with

we’ve got gender and sex, right?

  • [Patrick] Yeah.

  • What, what’s the difference between the two?

Is there a difference?

  • I saw that in your questions and I thought, my goodness,

this is what we spend an entire semester

kind of thinking through.

But what we tend to think about in the social sciences today

is that sex refers to a set of biological characteristics,

and gender is a social construct or category.

What I think is often misleading about that characteristic,

then is allowed to be sort of messy and complicated.

But in that framing, when you split them up

into these holy discrete constructs studies scholars, and,

and really more specifically people

who study gender and sex,

we’re not talking about sexuality right now.

I teach in the kind of,

academic universe that I travel in

is that we see how deeply gendered ideas,

cultural ideas about masculinity and femininity,

maleness and femaleness,

both in humans and in lots of other animals.

  • So are gender and sex two different things or?

  • Well, I think that they, they both are, and they aren’t.

I’d be, I’m comfortable saying that gender and sex

are, are two different constructs,

but they’re deeply intertwined with each other.

  • We’re talking about gender and, and sex,

and there’s a lot of controversies there.

If we’re talking about a trans woman,

has all of the male physical characteristics,

so would that not be a male then?

Couldn’t, couldn’t we plainly say this person is a male?

  • Well, well I guess it’s, it’s like,

why are you asking the question?

I think I, I, I wanna understand

sort of why that’s so important.

So if someone tells you-

  • Just to sort of understand reality, you know.

  • Well, I mean, I think when someone tells you who they are,

you should believe them.

So if a person says that they’re a woman or they’re a man,

then that’s them telling you their gender is.

I’m, I’m not so sure why,

what social in interactions would have to do with,

with maleness or femaleness that would be-

  • Well, I, I’m not even talking about social context.

I’m just, I’m just trying to start

by getting to the truth, you know?

  • Yeah, I mean, I’m really uncomfortable

with that language of like getting to the truth.

Again in social life-

  • Why, why is that,

why is that uncomfortable?

  • Because that, it sounds actually

deeply transphobic to me, and if-

  • And truth-
  • And if you keep probing,

we’re gonna stop the interview.


  • If I probe

about what the truth is?

  • You keep invoking the word truth,

which is condescending and rude.

I’m saying to you-

  • How is,

how is the word truth condescending and rude?

  • Why don’t you tell me what your truth is?

And you’re walking on 30 seconds more of thin ice

before I get up.

  • What my truth is?

Well, I don’t think I really have a truth.

I think that there’s just the truth, like the reality.

And so we should begin by trying to figure out

what the reality is.

  • Uh-huh.

And why are you concerned with when someone else tells you

that they’re a man or even if they use the word male,

why are you concerned with not believing them?

  • Well, you keep bringing it back to, you know,

how do you respond in a social situation, but-

  • That’s what I do, I’m a social scientist.

  • Well, right, but we’re at a university.

This is a place of understanding truth, isn’t it or?

  • Absolutely we are, we pursue the true truth.

And I’m a social scientist and that’s what I do.

  • Well, you just said the truth is transphobic.

  • That, that you would say that you’re,

if you’re saying the truth is

that I get to say you are not a man, show me your genitalia,

that’s transphobic.

  • No, I don’t wanna see anybody’s genitalia.

I, I, I just mean someone can make a statement

about themselves that could be untrue.

Like, for example, if I,

if I were to say that I’m a black man,

could you, would you accept that or would you be skeptical?

  • Are you Black?

Are you African American?

Are you biracial?

  • I don’t think so.

  • Well you don’t look that,

and I don’t think that’s a,

it doesn’t sound like that’s a genuine statement

of who you are.

  • Okay, so that’s my point.

I, I could make a statement about who I am that’s incorrect.

  • Of course, I think it’s well established

that human beings can lie yes.

  • Or not even lie.

I mean, I could just be mistaken.

  • Yeah.

I’m not sure where you’re going.

  • I guess this all comes back,

just it all comes down to really one question,

especially women, gender, and sexuality studies.

So what, so what, what is a woman?

  • Why do you ask that question?

  • I just really like to know.

  • What do you think the answer to that question is?

  • Well, I’m, I’m asking,

that’s why I came to a college professor

who, who’s, this is your, this is what you do.

  • What other kinds of answers have you gotten?

  • A lot of like this,

where you’re, where you’re not answering it,

I’ve gotten a lot of that so.

  • I think it’s interesting that you,

that you say that some of the people

you’ve, you’ve interviewed have been reluctant to answer it.

And I think that has a lot to do with the way,

the questions that preceded it and the,

the way that you’ve conducted yourself in the interview.

  • How have I conducted myself?

  • How do you think you’ve conducted yourself?

  • You, (laughs)

you just really don’t wanna answer the questions do you?

  • I, I came today very willing

and, and enthusiastic about answering questions

about women’s and gender sexuality studies,

which is what I do.

  • You wanted,

you wanted to answer questions about women’s studies,

and so shouldn’t the, the first answer

you should be able to provide

is what exactly as a woman?

  • Well, it’s, for me it’s,

it’s actually a really simple answer,

and that’s a person who identifies as a woman.

  • But what are they identifying as?

  • As a woman.

  • [Matt] So what is that?

  • As a woman.

  • Do you know what a circular definition is?

  • I do.

  • It’s sort of like what you’re doing right now,

where a woman is, is a woman.

  • Well, ‘cause you are seeking

what we would call in my field of work,

an essentialist definition of gender.

I think it sounds like you would like me

to give you a set of biological or cultural characteristics

that are associated with one gender or the other.

  • I’m not seeking any type of definition,

I’m just seeking a definition.

  • Yeah, and I gave you one.

(gentle playful music)

  • Well now I can say I’ve been to college.

Glad I didn’t pay for it.

Is there anyone willing to give me a straight answer?

Ideally somebody with a bunch

of medical degrees on the wall.

Dr. Grossman, thanks for talking to us.

You’re a psychiatrist medical doctor,

and you’ve done a lot of work in child psychiatry.

What is transgenderism from a psychiatric standpoint?

  • The best way to approach it

is by speaking about gender dysphoria,

which is an intense loathing and discomfort

with one’s biological sex.

They exist anywhere between

one in 30,000 people and one in 110,000.

It’s important to distinguish those people

from what’s happening much more recently,

which is kids that never had any discomfort or dysphoria

as it’s now called with their biological sex.

And then quite suddenly as preteens or as, as adolescents,

they come out and they announce that they are gender fluid

or they, they start to question their sex.

So first let’s define the terms sex and gender.

  • Yes, please.

  • Sex is biology.

Sex is unchanging.

It’s based on chromosomes 99.999% of the cells in the body

are marked either male or female.

Gender on the other hand is a perception.

It’s a feeling, it’s a way of identifying,

it’s a, it’s an experience.

Okay, that’s, that’s subjective.

  • It sounds like what you’re saying

is that if a man is male,

but thinks of himself as a woman, he’s not actually a woman.

  • That’s correct.

  • Male gametes, that’s what makes me male.

  • No, your, your sperm don’t make you male.

  • Then what does.

  • It’s a constellation.

  • In reality, in truth, okay.

  • Whose truth are we talking about?

  • The same truth that says we’re sitting in this room

right now you and I.

  • No, you’re not listening.

  • If I, if I see a chicken lying eggs

and I say that’s a female chicken laying eggs,

did I assign female

or am I just observing a physical reality

that’s happening in the world?

  • Does a chicken have gender identity?

Does a chicken cry?

  • Well, a-
  • Does a chicken

commit suicide?

Let’s frame it-

  • What does that

have to do with?

  • Because you’re talking, you’re trying to-

  • Chicken has sex like any, like any biological organism.

  • A chicken has an assigned gender,

but a chicken doesn’t have a gender identity.

  • So we assign female to chickens when they lay eggs?

That’s a, that’s-

  • We assume they’re female

if they lay eggs.

  • Now I was told that really everyone agrees

with the current approach to gender and transitioning kids

and all of that.

And if you don’t agree that you’re a dinosaur and a bigot.

So are you a bigoted dinosaur?

  • I’m not bigoted, and I’m not a dinosaur.

I am rooted in reality and in science.

  • Who’s reality?

  • There’s one reality.

  • [Announcer] Coming up girls 100 meter final.

  • The first race that I competed

against a transgender athlete was during my freshman year.

(gun bangs) (group chattering)

And once the gun went off,

the two transgender athletes took off flying

and left all of us girls in the dust.

Throughout all four years of high school

I was forced to compete against biological males.

I only competed against them in the sprinting events,

but I raced against these athletes

over a dozen times throughout the years,

and every single time I lost.

  • Did, did they inch you out of metals

that you would’ve won otherwise

or trophies you would’ve had?

  • They beat me out by 20 meters out of metals

and qualifying spots.

I missed out on qualifying for New England.

I had, and I had to go in the long jump

and the four by 200 meter relay,

so I was forced on the sidelines in my own event,

and if they were not there, I would’ve been able to qualify.

So I missed out on so much throughout my high school career.

  • Did they win all the events or almost all the events?

  • Between the two of them

they won every single event they competed in.

  • How does that, how does that feel?

  • It is so frustrating and heartbreaking

because we elite female athletes train so hard

to shave just fractions of a second off of our time

and going into races

knowing that we will never be able to win.

  • It feels like all that work gone to waste?

  • It does.

After so many losses it just gets to the point

of why am I even doing this?

Why am I keep, training so hard and sacrificing so much

just to place third and beyond.

(traffic humming)

(birds chirping)

  • Case in Connecticut, there were two male track runners,


  • They were trans girls.

  • Right.

And who, who decided that they

were gonna race against the girls.

And you look at the, those individuals,

you look at their times against the men, against the boys,

so they were kind of middle of the pack.

And then they’re racing the girls

and they’re, you know, first and second place.

Is that indicative of some kind of unfair advantage

that those individuals might have against the girls?

  • No, it’s not indicative of an unfair advantage.

And I think part of the proof of this

is that more transgender girls

are coming out in high school and still playing sports,

and they’re not winning.

You know, the Connecticut case is the exception.

It got a lot of attention

because those two trans girls performed well,

but there are many, many-

  • Yeah.
  • More trans girls competing

in sports and they don’t excel because-

  • Yeah, we could-
  • ‘Cause at the end

of the day, whether or not you win a game

is not just, is about how hard you work in your practice,

and most of us aren’t gonna win,

and that goes for transgender athletes too.

(upbeat country music)

♪ Let’s go girls. ♪

(group cheering)

The norm is that transgender youth

don’t win that much in sports games.

  • [Announcer] Alana McLaughlin was very appreciative

for Provost to take this fight.

I don’t know how appreciative it’s now,

but she got a couple punches in.

  • [Rodrigo] It is the very much the exception

when a transgender young person does win.

  • And the tap!

  • The tap.

  • [Rodrigo] And it’s because there’s not really

an advantage to being trans.

Only a few people are going to lead the pack.

  • There are some slight differences,

but does it translate to a competitive advantage?

I think you’d be very hard pressed to prove that.

(group chattering)

  • If there was a big advantage

to being transgender in sports,

then we would see transgender women totally dominating.

  • [Announcer] And over the last half of the pool,

nobody will touch Lia Thomas.

♪ Man I feel like a woman ♪

  • [Reporter] Transgender swimmer, Lia Thomas

breaking barriers and records,

but in a new article Sports Illustrated

calls the college senior

the most controversial athlete in America.

  • Lia obviously helps us do better, right?

Lia swimming really fast.

Lia’s performance helps

the University of Pennsylvania swim team.

The feeling of winning doesn’t feel as good anymore

‘cause it feels tainted.

There was a lot of things you couldn’t talk about

that were very concerning.

Like a locker room situation

if you even brought up concerns about it,

you were transphobic.

If you even bring up the fact that Lia’s swimming

might not be fair, you were immediately shut down

being called a hateful person or transphobic.

  • But there’s never any conversation?

The coaches don’t sit everyone down and acknowledge

what everyone’s really upset about.

  • So Penn actually brought in people high up

in the athletic department to talk to us.

They brought in someone from like the LGBTQ center.

They brought in someone from the psychological services.

  • So you’re upset about what’s happening and so-

  • Yeah.

  • You need psychological help.

  • Yeah.

And they told us in this meeting, they said,

“Look, we understand there’s an array of emotions,

but Lia’s swimming is a non-negotiable.”

“However we can help you make that okay

that’s what we’re here for.”

  • So you’re anonymous for this interview.

Why did you decide that you can’t have your face out there

saying these things?

  • They’ve made it pretty clear that if you speak up about it

and you say anything negative that like your life

will be over in some way.

Like you’ll be blasted all over the internet as a transphob

if you come out and then you’ll never be able to get a job.

Like anyone who wants to hire you will look you up

and see you’re transphobic and your life will be over.

(siren wailing) (traffic humming)

  • Let’s say that I identified as a woman tomorrow

and I wanted to go into the same locker room where you are.

Should I be allowed to do that

as long as I identify that way?

  • I don’t know.

I just feel that other women

would be uncomfortable by you walking in there.

(man speaking in foreign language)

  • No.

(man speaking in foreign language)

(woman speaking in foreign language)

  • Controversy at a health club in Koreatown

over the issue of gender.

  • That’s right.

Video of spa goers complaining was posted on social media.

  • [Woman] I just wanna be clear with you.

It’s okay, it’s okay for a man

to go into the women’s section,

show his penis around the other women,

young little girls underage,

your spa, Wi Spa condone that,

is that what you’re saying?

  • [Man] Like I just said.

  • [Woman] Like I asked.

  • [Man] Like I mentioned-

  • [Woman] So he, he could stay there?

  • [Man] You cannot just come-

  • [Woman] He could stay there?

  • [Man] Sexual orientation.

  • [Woman] What sexual orientation?

I see a dick.

  • [Reporter] Police identified the person involved

as 52-year-old Darren Merager of Riverside county.

Merager who has been a registered sex offender since 2006

now faces five felony counts of indecent exposure.

  • Hello, I’m Congressman Mark Takano.

Trans month of visibility is a time

to recognize the strength, diversity, and resiliency

of the transgender community.

Together we can make our country and our world

a more accepting place by speaking out

against transphobia at the source,

and supporting the trans community

by getting the Equality Act signed into law.

  • Congressman, thank you for, for being here.

Thanks for joining us.

You are the first member of Congress

who’s a member of the LGBT community

and also a person of Asian descent.

You’re also a big proponent of the Equality Act.

  • Yes.

  • What is the Equality Act?

If you were to just summarize it very briefly.

I know it does a lot.

  • The most simplest way to talk about the Equality Act

is that it simply amends the 1964 Civil Rights Act

to include sexual orientation and gender identity.

So public accommodations is one area.

  • What’s a way that someone whose LGBT is,

could be discriminated in public accommodations currently?

  • Currently, you know, public accommodations

is the whole area of, you know, hotels and motels, and.

  • Bathrooms, and sports teams is that?

  • I’d say bathrooms-

  • Yeah.

  • Sports teams, athletic events.

  • Let’s get into more specific policy issues.

There, there are some women who say, and I’ve,

I’ve talked to a few who say this.

They say, “Hey, you know,

I’d like some privacy in the bathroom.”

“I’d prefer not to encounter,

you know, naked penises, frankly.”

They say even that the penis is a telltale sign

that someone is a male.

I mean, there, there are people

who kind of really bought into the,

to the rumor that only men have penises.

What, how do we account for that?

How do you respond to that?

  • Um.

Well, um,

well, what I would say is that most transgender people

that I know, um, and it’s a very I think

distinct minority of people,

it’s a very, it’s a, it is a, it is a very

I think we’re talking not about a lot of people.

Um, I think a person who wants to use a woman’s bathroom

who identifies as transgender

really does think themselves as a female.

So how we go about trying to,

um, you know, respect their basic right to live.

I think will be an important part of this law and um-

  • With a law-
  • Bathrooms.

Well, wait a minute, bath, bathrooms are,

bathrooms are, you know,

where you want to take this conversation

instead of the basic right to just life

is something that I’m kind of mystified

that you’re kind of not focusing on first.

We’re going straight to the controversy over bathrooms.

Um, so you know what I think this interview is over.

  • [Woman] Yeah, I think we’re gonna wrap it there.

  • I think, I think this interview is over.

  • I just said one last question.

  • Uh, no, I, I, I, the interview is over.

  • We want to know-

  • Please turn off the cameras.

  • What, what is a woman?

  • Please.

Just turn off the cameras.

  • [Woman] Excuse me.

So we’re gonna end the interview.

If you guys could please pack up

and return the office exactly as-

  • I just wanted to know-

  • As you found it.

  • Okay, thank you.

  • I came all this way

to know what-

  • Thank you.

  • They’re fair questions.

I just wanted to know what is a woman.

  • [Woman] And you’re not gonna find out.

(slow tempo jazz music)

  • My trip to California isn’t providing many answers,

but at least I’m making new friends.

You worry about kids walking around out here?

  • No, because I raised two daughters.

They’re two of the most well-adjusted adults.

They grew up around naked people.

And there’s been studies that have shown

that children raised around non-sexual nudity

actually have fewer hangups when they’re adults.

  • People do have hangups.

There’s a lot of things hanging right now.

  • Yeah.
  • During this conversation.

Uh, can anyone be any gender they wanna be?

Can a man become a woman if he wants to be?

  • I leave the, I mean, what people do

that’s personal choice.

People can live the life they want to.

I, I’m trying to live the life I want to, an authentic life.

  • Yeah.

  • And I-

  • I can see that.

  • That’s why I respect

other people’s rights to choose what they wanna do.

  • Well, why are you asking a gay man

as to what it means to be a woman?

You should be asking women what it means to be women,

especially trans women who, what it means to be women.

  • Well, I’m asking all kinds of people.

Can anyone have an opinion about it?

  • Only people who are women.

Gay men don’t know nothing

about what it means to be a woman.

  • Have you told gay men here in San Francisco

that they’re not allowed to talk about this?

  • No.

But I have, it’s not like I come around

and say what a gay man is allowed to be.

  • So you’re saying, so you’re saying if you’re not a woman,

then you shouldn’t have an opinion.

  • Where does a guy get a right to say what a woman is?

Women only know what women are.

  • Are you a cat?

  • No.

  • Can you tell me what a cat is?

  • This is actually a genuine mistake.

I am sorry I even came up here.

  • Do you wanna tell us what a woman is?

(slow tempo jazz music)

If my friend in the purple hat is correct

and only women can tell me what a woman is,

I guess I need to go where the women are.

(upbeat music)

What, what is a woman?

Can you tell me that?

(group laughing)

  • Uh.
  • Well, you’re at

the women’s march, you must to have some idea.

So I see girl’s vagina.

Does that mean that they’re the only people

who can get pregnant?

  • [Brunette Woman] If men could get pregnant too,

I think they want the right to choose.

  • Yeah.
  • But they,

but men can get pregnant?

  • We’re saying someone who is born as a woman,

but identifies as a man, that-

  • Is that a man?

  • [Blonde Woman] Real man.

  • It’s a real man.

  • Yeah.

  • So they, so men can get pregnant.

  • [Blonde Woman] Yes. (laughs)


  • If they have the parts

to do so.

  • Is it just women that get birth or is it?

  • Or I guess yeah.

  • So, so men, so men can give birth too?

  • Anyone with a vagina.

  • Well, that could be a man or a woman.

  • [Blonde Woman] Well, I mean, I think

that’s the whole point, right?

That it’s fluid.

The way that we define these things changes a lot.

  • [Brunette Woman] What are you doing here?

  • I’m asking these questions.

  • Okay.

  • Trying to figure out

what a woman is.

That’s why I’m here.

And this is the women’s march,

I figured this is a good place to find out.

I’ve come all this way to ask that question.

Can anyone tell me what a woman is?

  • If you’re not here for women we ask you to leave!

  • What is that?

  • [Crowd Member] He’s going to harass you.

He’s probably gonna harass you.

  • Am I harassing?

I’m asking a question.

  • [Group] Our bodies, our choice.

  • Who’s body?

  • Our bodies, our choice.

Our bodies, our choice.

  • What, what is a woman?

  • Our bodies-

  • Can, can anyone-

  • Our choice, our bodies.

  • Here at the women’s march tell me what a woman is?

  • [Group] Our bodies, our-

  • [Man] Wear a mask, wear a mask!

  • [Matt] How about you tell me what a woman is

and I’ll put a mask on?

  • Wear a mask!
  • Sir, tell me

what a woman is and I’ll put a mask on.

(body thuds)

(body thuds)

(group chattering)

  • [Group] Asshole, asshole, asshole, asshole, asshole.

  • [Matt] Please if one person could tell me what a woman is.

(upbeat music)

Do you guys know what a woman is by any chance?

  • No idea.

(slow tempo jazz music)

  • I’ve been all over America, I still can’t find an answer.

Maybe I’m looking too close to home.

(upbeat music) (plane engine humming)

(dramatic music)

(group singing in foreign language)

(group singing in foreign language)

(group singing in foreign language)

(group singing in foreign language)

(group singing in foreign language)

(group singing in foreign language)

(group singing in foreign language)

We came a long way to come and talk to you guys.

Thousands of miles from, from America.

So thank you for inviting us into your tribe first of all.

  • I can say it is my pleasure to, to meet you.

And feel most welcome.

But you’re here to learn with me.

I’m here to learn with you too.

  • Great.

(man singing in foreign language)

What’s the right form here?

(man singing in foreign language)

  • It’s just.

  • Just with the elbow.

  • Yeah.

(arrow thuds)

  • I mean, they’re laughing, so I guess it’s not good,

but I thought it was pretty good.

Not good enough to be a man yet in your tribe but.

What does a man do?

What, what are his roles within the tribe?

  • The role of a man you need to work for your woman.

Secondly to have children.

If you have children

and you don’t have something to feed them,

you are not still a man.

(goat bleating)

(man speaking in foreign language)

(metal clanging) (group chattering)

(man speaking in foreign language)

(blood squirting) (group chattering)

(tribe member speaking in foreign language)

  • [Matt] There you go.

All right.

  • Yeah.

  • Okay.

  • That’s the blood.

(man speaking in foreign language)

(Matt gasps)

(man speaking in foreign language)

  • Was the best raw kid I’ve had in my life.

(tribe member laughs)

(group chattering) (stick scraping)

What if a man decides

that he wants to do the roles of a woman?

(tribe member speaking in foreign language)

(tribe leader speaking in foreign language)

  • Uh, in Maasai community, it do not exist at all.

  • Doesn’t exist.

What if a man decides that his,

his gender identity is, is woman?

(tribe member speaking in foreign language)

(tribe leader speaking in foreign language)

  • A woman has it own duty and a man has it own duty.

And a lady cannot do the duty of a man

and a man cannot do a duty of a woman.

  • Can a man become a woman?

(tribe member speaking in foreign language)

(tribe leader speaking in foreign language)

  • No.

  • No?

  • [Tribe Member] No.

  • What about a transgender?

  • What?

  • Transgender?

(tribe member speaking in foreign language)

(tribe leader speaking in foreign language)

  • No.

  • No?

  • It’ll look like to,

if you want to become a lady but your man

you have something wrong-

  • Something wrong?

  • In your mind.

  • Something wrong in your family.

Something wrong in you.

(group chattering)

  • What about if someone was non-binary?

  • Come again?

  • Non-binary.

  • Uh-huh.

  • Do you know like non, like someone is, is-

  • You’re not a woman, you’re not a man.

  • Yeah, someone’s like, someone is, is neither.

They’re something else.

Is that?

(tribe member speaking in foreign language)

(man speaking in foreign language)

(tribe leader speaking in foreign language)

  • He’s saying we have never seen things like those.

For a man he has a penis.

For a woman has a vagina.

So we know this is a lady, this is a man.

  • What if it’s a woman with a,

what if it’s a woman with a penis?

  • What?

(group chattering)

Is that?

(tribe member speaking in foreign language)

(man laughs) (group chattering)

People are laughing.

Is that, is that a dumb question?

(tribe leader speaking in foreign language)

  • Uh, they’re just laughing

because they have never hear something like that.

This they’re first time.


  • Never heard it before?

  • A woman have a penis and she’s a woman.

  • In my country, I can’t go day without hearing it.

We hear it every day.

So in my country, sometimes you’ll hear people say,

a man will say, I, that I’m a,

I’m a woman trapped in a man’s body.

And so they say that I have a woman trapped inside me.

(tribe member laughing)

(tribe member speaking in foreign language)

(tribe leader speaking in foreign language)

  • They want to know a woman has the breast.

  • Breast, yeah.

  • Secondly, she has, she has a vagina.

  • Vagina.

  • And the question is, does this man deliver?

  • Does he deliver babies?

(group laughing)

No, not as far as I know.

(tribe leader speaking in foreign language)

(group chattering)

  • The question is, let’s say, if you want to sleep a woman,

definitely you’ll do sex.

  • Sex with a woman, yeah.

  • And you (beep) the vagina is it?

But for the man where do you (beep)?

He asked that question.

  • I don’t know all the logistics of it.

(group laughing)

Based on what I’m saying,

would you ever wanna move to America?

(tribe member speaking in foreign language)

(tribe leader speaking in foreign language)

(group laughing)

  • They say no, never.

  • What, what is a woman?

If you had to give a, a definition.

(woman speaking in foreign language)

  • She say a woman delivered.

  • Yeah.

  • A man cannot.

  • So it sounds like you,

you don’t spend a lot of time thinking about gender.

You don’t, you just kind of live your lives.

You don’t think much about it.

(tribe member speaking in foreign language)

(tribe leader speaking in foreign language)

  • He said “No, because we believe that’s a God plan.”

  • God’s plan.

(tribe leader speaking in foreign language)

  • He’s saying, “That I’m shocked on what you’re telling me.”

  • He’s shocked.

  • Yeah.

(group singing in foreign language)

  • [Matt] The Maasai people don’t think much about gender,

but they have a firm sense of their identity.

It’s clear that gender ideology

is a uniquely Western phenomenon.

So where did all this come from?

Who came up with it and why?

(group chattering)

  • Matt, I, I want, I wanna show this to you.

You’re a parent, right?


“It’s Perfectly Normal”, for 10 years and up.

Here’s just one page I want you to see here.

  • For 10 and up, huh?

  • It’s it’s unspeakable what these people

have done to our children.

  • When, when did that start?

When was it decided that we need to start teaching kids

about this stuff at such a young age?

  • So I’ll answer that with one word, Kinsey.

Kinsey was a social reformer.

(slide clicking)

He wanted to rid society of Judeo-Christian values

when it came to sexuality,

and he worked very hard to do that.

And I would say he succeeded.

  • [Matt] Kinsey would be very happy with our culture today.

His idea was that children are sexual from birth.

That we’re all inherently sexual creatures

from cradle to grave.

He believed that true happiness is found

in a life of perverse sexual experimentation,

no matter the age.

  • What came out is that his research was fraudulent.

  • Kinsey based, his fraudulent conclusions on data

he collected from convicted sex offenders

and child molesters.

(slide clicking)

His research was conducted in prisons, not everyday America.

(slide clicking)

He also performed horrific sexual experiments on children,

some under the age of one.

(slide clicking)

His most influential book,

“Sexual Behavior in the Human Male”

contains an infamous chart called table 34,

which documents the orgasms of very young kids,

including babies as young as five months old.

But instead of suffering the consequences

for his heinous actions,

he was and still is celebrated by academia and Hollywood.

His ideas formed the foundation for sexual education

in public schools today.

How do we get from this to you can choose your own gender?

  • Okay, well now we have another

and very important character,

and his name was John Money.

  • [Matt] John Money was a psychologist and professor

at Johns Hopkins University.

Gender ideology was his brain child.

In fact, he coined the terms

gender identity and gender roles.

And according to Money,

babies are gender neutral at birth

and ultimately environment determines

whether a person is a man or a woman.

  • Money was telling the world about his theory

that a boy could be raised as a girl

and do just fine and vice versa.

  • [Matt] And so money tried out his theory

on two young twin boys, the Reimer twins.

  • When the twins were eight months old

and they went to be circumcised,

the first twin, whose name was Bruce,

something went wrong with the machinery

and his penis was burnt off.

They stopped and didn’t do a second circumcision

on the other twin, as you might imagine.

And the parents of course didn’t know what to do.

How are they gonna raise this child?

  • [Matt] John Money convinced Bruce’s parents

to transition him into a girl.

Money also conducted sexually abusive experiments

on the twins throughout their childhood,

including forcing them to simulate sex acts on each other.

  • He reported up to the age of 10

that this was a complete success.

Well, wasn’t true.

  • [Matt] The results were a disaster.

Bruce could never fully accept his female identity.

Eventually his parents told him the truth

and he chose to transition back to a boy,

taking the name David.

As an adult, David spoke out

about the abuse and the damage done to him by John Money.

  • The girls would do their things with their Barbies

and things like that,

and that wouldn’t interest me.

  • Mm-hmm.

  • And things such as trucks, and building forts,

and, you know, get into the odd fist fight

and climbing trees, that’s the kind of stuff that I liked,

but it was unacceptable.

So I never-

  • As a girl.

  • [David] As, as a girl, I had no place to, to fit in.

  • The trauma that he and his brother

and his entire family went through left deep scars.

His brother died of an overdose when he was 38,

and then David died, committed suicide.

  • There was never a retraction

or an apology from John Money,

instead his ideas were adopted by mainstream psychology

and they formed the basis of gender ideology today.

Why don’t more people know

about John Money and Alfred Kinsey?

  • Evidently there are forces

that don’t want this information out.

(gentle brooding music)

  • I, I never fit.

I was a, I was an alpha female,

a sales executive that kind of just didn’t fit in any box.

When psychologists, or somebody that I was in love with,

or whatever said that I was in the wrong body,

I started to think, well, maybe I am.

I’m a biological woman that medically transitioned

to appear like a male

through synthetic hormones and surgery.

I will never be a man.

Is it transphobic for me to tell the truth?

Why is it in a couple hundred years from now

if you dug up my body,

they’re gonna go, yep, that was a woman.

Had babies.

  • Can you tell me about the procedures that you, you had?

  • I’ve had seven surgeries.

I’ve had one stress heart attack.

I’ve had a helicopter life ride with a pulmonary embolism.

I’ve had 17 rounds of antibiotics.

I had six inches of hair

on the inside of my urethra for 17 months.

Nobody would help me,

including the doctor that did this to me,

‘cause I lost my insurance.

I get infections every three to four months.

I’m probably not gonna live very long.

  • Was there any real discussion

of the risks and the side effects and?

  • No, no, there’s not.

And I know that people want to think that there is,

but there’s not.

The truth is, is that medical transition is experimental.

We have studies that said that medical transition

helps mental health, helps mental health with kids.

They’ve all been retracted, modified, changed.

But the only long-term study tells us seven to 10 years

is when transgender people are the most suicidal.

  • After.
  • After surgery.

But that’s transphobic to say.

For the first time in history

a marginalized group has a huge dollar sign

on the top of their head.

We have five children’s hospitals

in the United States promoting that.

  • What?
  • That’s a phalloplasty.

That’s a bottom surgery.

We have five children’s hospitals in the United States

telling girls that they can be boys at $70,000 a pop

in a surgery that has a 67% complication rate

that will kill me from infection that I can’t sue on.

We’re butchering a generation of children

because nobody’s willing to talk about anything.

I have three kids

at the age that they’re doing this to kids.

I’m not transphobic.

I love my kids and I love other people’s kids.

And you should too.

This is wrong on so many levels.

  • Can kids consent?

Do you think kids are-

  • No.

  • Capable of consenting to this?

  • No, they’re not.

Being a parent is loving the hell outta your kids

and helping them see around corners.

  • What’s the, what’s the youngest patient

that you’ve operated on?

  • The youngest patient I’ve done vaginal plasty on

um, is age 16.

  • Do you worry that minors

just don’t understand enough about themselves?

They’re not neurologically developed enough yet

to make permanent life altering decisions.

  • Absolutely not.

  • A young person’s self-perception

one day they may be clear,

the next day they may be totally confused and not sure.

And you’re affirming it with hormones

that have never been used in this way.

In the, in the field of medicine.

  • You’re talking about puberty blockers.

  • Blockers, and then opposite sex hormones.

  • At what age does the medical transition

begin with medication?

  • So medical affirmation

begins when the patient says they’re ready for it.

So that could be a, a kiddo

who is just starting puberty and panicking

‘cause they’re getting breast buds

or their penis is getting bigger and busier,

and they’re worried about all kinds of masculine changes.

And that way puberty blockers,

which are completely reversible,

and don’t have permanent effects

are wonderful because we can put that pause on puberty.

Just like if you were to listen in music,

you put the pause on, and we stop the blockers,

and puberty would go right back to where it was,

the next note in the song just delayed that period of time.

  • You can just pause puberty.

  • No you can’t.

  • And then pick it up-

  • No you can’t.

  • In the future.

  • No you can’t.

How many studies do they have, long-term studies

on hormone blockers with children?


  • I just spoke a month or two ago

with a mother whose 14-year-old daughter

was put on blockers.

They discovered after two years

this 14-year-old girl has osteoporosis.

That’s something that like old women get.

  • How can doctors assure parents

that a certain medicine is totally safe?

If based on what you’re saying,

they can’t possibly know that.

  • How can they be removing the healthy breasts

of 15-year-old girls?

How can they be sterilizing kids?

How can this whole thing be happening, Matt?

  • Every child that they convince is, is transgender

and in need of medical transition

it generates 1.3 million to pharma.

And we’re believing a pharmaceutical company, Lupron,

hormone blockers reversible so they say.

Well, the truth is that in 2003 Lupron was sued

and deemed a criminal enterprise by the US government.

They paid the most fine of any pharmaceutical company

at that time, $874 million, wrote a check.

  • Is Lupron chemical castration?

  • Yes.

We’re giving it to pedophiles aren’t we?

We’re giving it to people that are dying.

And we’re giving it to kids telling them

that they were born in the wrong body

and it’s completely safe.

  • One of the drugs used is Lupron, right?


  • Mm-hmm.

  • Has actually been used

to chemically castrate sex offenders.

  • You know what?

I’m not sure that we should continue with this interview,

because it seems like it’s going-

  • Why not?

  • In a particular direction.

  • Well, you’re a medical professional.

  • I am a medical professional.

  • So you don’t wanna talk about the drugs

that you give to kids or?

  • Again, I’m a physician and I use medication.

You’re choosing exploitive words, drugs I give to kids.

  • I’m, I’m choosing a-

  • Chemical castration.

  • Word that was

in a dictionary.

  • That’s not a correct term for puberty blocking

in a transgender person.

  • I mean I could

look it up on my phone,

but I’m pretty sure if I looked it up like-

  • You, you can look it up on your phone.

  • It says, “Medical definition,

the administration of a drug

to bring about a marked reduction of the body’s production

of androgens and especially testosterone.”

  • And I’m saying as a pediatrician

who takes care of hundreds of these kids,

when you use that terminology

you were being malignant and harmful.

  • I mean, there are some who would say

that giving chemical drugs to kids is malignant and harmful.

  • It’s about the context of caring for a child

and, and seeing the, the suffering that kids

can have that have not been an affirmative home situations.

  • What do you say to the claim that,

well, we have to do this for these kids

because if we don’t, they’ll kill themselves,

they’ll, they’ll resort to drugs and self harm?

  • A lot of them were hurting themselves.

A lot of them were suicidal

before they even discovered gender.

That is never part of the discussion.

And they say, what would you rather

have a, a living daughter or a dead son?

If this is what the professionals are saying,

it’s terrible emotional blackmail.

(brooding music)

  • [Man] Hello?

  • [Matt] Hey, is this (beep)?

  • [Man] This is yes.

  • [Matt] Hey it’s it’s Matt Walsh.

Are you, where are you right now?

  • [Man] I’m, I’m in Vancouver, British Columbia,

Canada right now.

  • [Matt] Are you, can, are you able to leave?

  • [Man] I’m not able to leave B.C.

I can’t even go to another province in Canada right now.

Uh, and it’s because I’m technically out on bail.

  • [Matt] What happened exactly?

(dramatic music)

How exactly did, did this

get into the courts to begin with?

  • [Man] Right, so what happened

is we set up a meeting with B.C. Children’s Hospital

and according to the B.C. Children’s Hospital website,

there’s gonna be a thorough evaluation.

and I’m thinking, good.

This is gonna be the end of it all.

They’re gonna clearly see that my child

is not the opposite sex.

So my ex-wife brings my child into B.C. Children’s hospital.

I get a call less than an hour into that appointment

that they were gonna pump her full cross-sex hormones

within the hour.

And I put a halt to that.

I said, no.

They agreed to, to stop for the moment.

They figured, well, let’s get the dad on board too.

This is all gonna be better.

Let’s just get everybody on the same page.

I said, it’s not gonna happen.

So I get a letter from B.C. Children’s Hospital

in December of 2018,

and it says, “That under the B.C. Infant’s Act

they will start injecting my child with cross-sex hormones,

and I have two weeks to respond with legal action

if I so choose.”

And so that’s how I ended up in court

‘cause I did respond with legal action.

  • [Matt] So you called your daughter a she,

and you, you went to jail for that?

  • [Man] It’s considered criminal violence

to not use the preferred pronouns.

It’s no different than let’s say

I were to take a broomstick

and whack one of my kids over the head.

So they were treating it in a similar fashion

that misgendering, mispronouning my child

was the equivalent of family violence.

  • [Matt] Is she on the hormone pills now?

  • [Man] She is.

The court ordered that she could do whatever she wanted.

  • 2010 until I would say 2016,

I would say 80% of my clients were trans youth.

Now it is you identify, you take hormones, you do surgery.

There isn’t any other pathways.

  • So if you have two parents,

one parent wants to affirm the trans identity,

the other parent doesn’t who wins that battle?

  • The one who wants to affirm.

  • Every time?

  • Every single time.

The goal is to get the parents to affirm the kid.

(plane engine humming)

(dramatic music)

  • There’s no such thing as a gender affirming therapist.

That’s a contradiction in terms.

  • Why?

  • Because you don’t affirm if you’re a therapist.

It’s not your business to affirm.

You come to see me ‘cause there’s something wrong.

Maybe you come to see me

because a destructive element of you

is wreaking havoc in your life.

I’m on the side of the part of you

that wants to aim up, man.

That’s what I’m on the side of.

Okay, now I don’t know what that means in your case,

but we’re gonna talk about it.

Am I gonna affirm what you think?

No, it’s not up to me to affirm it.

You don’t get a casual pat on the back from a therapist

for your preexisting axiomatic conclusions.

That’s not therapy.

That’s a rubber stamp.

  • Is anybody at any point explaining to these kids

the, the, the real long-term consequences

of hormones and puberty blockers?

  • I don’t think they’re explaining it to the kids.

So that has frightened me,

that it’s become that we’re even talking to the kids

about it at 10, we’re presenting it in schools.

  • So this generation, they’re the, they’re the lab rats?

  • Biological sex binary.

It’s been binary for like a hundred million years,

longer than that.

Temperament is not binary, temperament or personality.

  • So that’s gender.

Temperament is gender?

  • Well, gender’s not a good word,

because it’s vague and it isn’t measurable.

  • So do we need it?

Why can we just say temperament?

What do we even need the word gender for?

  • Well, I don’t need it.

  • Yeah.

  • But what I would say

is that people who talk about the diversity and gender

are actually talking

about diversity, and personality, and temperament,

but they don’t know it.

You can have a masculine temperament if you’re a woman.

Maybe one in 10 women have the average temperament of a man.

And you can have feminine men temperamentally.

And it’s not that uncommon, because the differences

between men and women temperamentally aren’t that great.

There are masculine girls.

There are feminine boys.

What are we gonna do about that?

Carve them up.

  • You as someone who, who started your professional life,

you know, transgender care.

  • Yeah.

  • Now you’re sitting here talking to me

um, and I’m a dangerous man I’ve been told.

  • Mm-hmm.

  • Are you worried about reprisals?

Are you worried about how this is gonna be,

how this is gonna play among your professional peers?

  • I am worried that I can’t have conversations

with any other peers.

I don’t know any other peer

that will speak to me around these things.

That question it.

I just don’t think developmentally

this is helpful to our children.

  • You step wrong as the therapist,

you say the wrong thing once,

and like your bloody career is over.

And now it’s the same with physicians.

How’s that gonna work?

You’re gonna go have an honest conversation

with your physician when he’s terrified out of his mind

that he’ll say something politically incorrect

during the diagnostic processes.

Hey man, you’re sick with whatever you wanna be.

See you later.

You want a prescription for something.

  • I left academia because the climate

had become too stifling politically,

especially when it comes to the topic of gender identity

and the science of gender

it is absolutely impossible to do good research.

You basically have to decide beforehand

what you’re going to find,

so that you don’t upset activists.

And that is not how you do science.

  • Why has this shift occurred

where all of a sudden gender and sex

have become so politically and culturally charged?

  • There is a really ugly history

between sex researchers and transgender activists.

In the past if any sex researcher spoke out

about science that went against activists orthodoxy,

or particular narratives that activists wanted to promote,

they would basically have their personal

and professional reputations ruined.

So what you see is that only experts who tow the party line

and say the things that activists like,

those are the people who get attention.

Those are the people who get lifted up in the media.

And also, I would say people are incentivized to go along

with the activist narratives and gender ideology,

because that helps their career.

  • Trans is very cool.

Trans is a way of, of, of giving yourself value.

Given the way society at the moment is functioning.

All of the things that used to give us anchors of identity

have become very fluid or very volatile in recent years.

And into that context, I think what, what you find then is,

is new identities start to, to fill the void or the vacuum.

Whereas in the past, I might have got my sense of self-worth

from being part of the village where I grew up.

Now, I might get my sense of self-worth

through being part of the online community

that I connect with or part of the,

the sexual identity community.

  • So now we are seeing kids

that are identifying as animals going to school,

and they are purring instead of answering questions

and they meow,

and the teachers are not allowed to question it

because it’s considered a queer identity.

  • So you have kids that are going to school

and they’re saying I’m a cat.

  • Mm-hmm.

  • And the teachers have to affirm them as a cat?

  • Yes, so it’s not-

  • So schools are-

  • Just the young ones.

  • Like literal,

literal zoos now basically.

  • They are.

(Naia howling)

  • I am a 27-year-old transgender woman.

I am a wolf therian and a member of the furry fandom.

  • When and how did you discover this inner wolfness?

  • Probably around age 10 or 11.

I was watching an anime about wolves,

and see the wolf running across the screen,

and I’m somehow just intrinsically like, oh, that’s me.

  • Have you spent any time around biological wolves?

  • Yes.

  • That sounds dangerous also.

What, what context are you?

  • So I was a volunteer with a preserve,

and I’ve, I’ve also visited many wolf preserves.

  • Are you able to communicate with the wolves?

  • Am I gonna have a conversation with the wolf

in the way that I’m communicating you and I?

Obviously not.

Am I going to read their body language,

respond appropriately to their behaviors

and their nonverbal cues?


  • Would you be able, would you be able to give us

an example of this wolf communication?

  • No.

I’m not comfortable doing so.

  • Okay, all right.

How exactly have these ideas become so pervasive?

  • First of all, I think we need to remember

that in the West at least,

we have it drilled into our minds

from childhood onwards that personal happiness

is the key to individual flourishing.

Secondly, we think of ourselves in psychological terms.

I am my feelings.

And in order for me to be happy,

I have to be able to express my feelings.

I have to be outwardly

that which I feel myself to be inwardly.

Thirdly, we are taught that interfering

with somebody else’s happiness is very bad.

We need to acknowledge that there are powerful lobby groups,

powerful cultural and political lobby groups

driving this thing.

Hollywood is pressing LGBTQ+ matters in so many movies.

We’re seeing it in the way Amazon sets up its algorithms.

There are all kinds of factors in society

that are pushing what would really be numerically

a fairly minority interest into being one

of the main political focal points of this generation.

(dramatic music)

  • After my operation, I will be a woman.

  • Why can’t she just be a lesbian?

  • ‘Cause she’s not a lesbian mom.

She’s a boy.

  • Because I was born in a girl’s body.

  • Can I ask you a question?

Why don’t you kiss me?

  • [Preston] The whole idea of social contagion,

that there could be something in one social environment

that could play some role in somebody coming out,

identifying as trans,

would you say that that is definitely part of your story?

  • When I look back, I don’t think I would’ve ever even

considered in seeing myself as a boy

without these social aspects.

Especially if I hadn’t joined these online communities.

(fast tempo dramatic music)

  • I identify as non-binary.

I’ll officially be changing my pronouns to they/them.

  • My pronouns are he/him and demon/demonself.

  • I’ve been going by they/them pronouns for four years now.

I’m pretty-

  • They!

  • Comfortable with it.

  • They!

I use they/them pronouns.

  • There was literally a period

of a few weeks to a few months,

I started out as an ally,

and then eventually I starting to identify as transgender.

  • [Both] We are trans models.

  • So they go on the internet

and they’re told that all of their problems will be solved

if they become a man.

  • Kids are being taught you might feel like you’re a boy

even if you have a vagina and you’re a girl,

you are what you feel you are.

  • Some people are girls, some are boys, some are both,

some are neither.

Gender is all about how we feel on the inside

and how we express ourselves.

  • Ah, the gender fluid teacher.

What do I go by in the classroom?

I go by teacher Fambrini.

  • As a queer and trans teacher my agenda

is to show little boys that they don’t have

to be like as stereotypically masculine.

That they can like paint their nails and wear earrings

and like still be a guy,

and like it can be cool.

  • So you worry that there,

there could be a sort of social contagion element of this?

  • A teeny tiny bit, maybe.

(dramatic music)

  • [Helena] Looking back on it was the same pattern.

Just kids who were really struggling.

Kids who were very alone and isolated.

  • [Miriam] They have anxiety.

They don’t fit in with their peers.

They don’t know where they belong.

  • Maybe they didn’t have a welcoming family life.

They just got caught up in these communities online.

  • Then they discover, hey, there’s these group of people

and they also don’t fit in.

They’re different.

They’re not sure who they are.

Gee, that’s where I fit in.

  • Today is the day before my top surgery.

I am waking up tomorrow at 5:00 am

to have a subcutaneous mastectomy.

  • We’re telling children when they haven’t fully developed

that all you have to do is medically transition

and you fit in.

I was one of those kids.

It got me at 42.

Your child doesn’t have a chance.

(dramatic music)

  • Trans rights.

This is only going in one direction.

You will respect us.

(slow tempo electronic music)

  • As parents come to understand more about gender identity

kids are coming out at younger ages.

  • It’s exciting.

And you know, who gets it right?

Is this next generation.

  • The next generation who’s already telling us

that our antiquated ideas of things

have to be a certain way just don’t apply to them.

  • They’re rejecting a lot of our social mores.

They’re tweaking the system.

(dramatic music)

  • I just don’t think it’s realistic

to put this decision on them that is basically saying,

are you okay with the risk of permanent health effects

that you can never, ever reverse?

How can you ask that of such a small child?

(gentle dramatic music)

(dramatic music)

  • [Michelle] I’m a physician and I use medication.

  • [Marci] Certainly, it’s a bit of a Faustian bargain.

  • [Michelle] Puberty blockers,

which are completely reversible.

  • [Patrick] You keep invoking the word truth,

which is condescending and rude.

  • [Gert] Some women have penises, right?

Some men have vaginas.

  • [Michelle] Does a chicken cry?

Does a chicken commit suicide?

  • [Gert] I’m not a woman, so I, I can’t really answer that.

  • [Don] I guess because I got a dick.

(ominous music)

(brooding music)

  • [Matt] Somehow this madness

has infected our entire society.

Am I the crazy one?

I’m done asking questions.

(chair thudding)

(board thuds)

  • Tanner Cross is on administrative leave

for what he said about gender identity.

He said, “He would not call a student

who’s transgender by their preferred pronoun.”

  • I can’t lie to children.

And, and I gotta also represent a whole community

that believes in biological facts and scientific facts.

And I just can’t, I can’t do that to kids.

  • You get into teaching because you love kids.

This policy started coming into play

and I was like, wait a minute,

It’s causing me, I’m gonna have to lie to my kids.

The ones I’ve always wanted to protect.

  • Do we have assaults in our bathrooms,

in our locker rooms regularly?

  • [Man] To my knowledge, we don’t have any records

of assaults occurring in our restroom.

  • [Woman] My child was raped at school,

and this is what happens.

  • The predator transgender student is,

or person simply it does not exist.

  • The Virginia Department of Education says,

“It is now reviewing whether

the Loudoun County school district

has properly reported cases of sexual assault.”

This comes after a 15-year-old

was charged on two separate occasions

for assaulting two different students at different schools.

  • Dozens rallying tonight in Loudoun County

to protest the school’s policies.

  • So that includes limiting who can talk

during public comment portions of board meetings.

One speaker leased property in the area

just so he could speak tonight.

Fox 5’s Perris Jones is live with the details.

  • That’s right, conservative commentator Matt Walsh told me,

“He’s leasing out someone’s basement in Loudoun County

so he’d be able to speak during tonight’s meeting.”

  • I decided last week to fulfill my lifelong dream

of being a, um, a Loudoun County resident.

You know, I’ve always felt like I’ve lived in Tennessee.

I felt sort of like a Virginian

trapped in a Tennessean’s body.

I identify sort of state fluid, I guess.

  • [Reporter] This is Matt Walsh, he tweeted,

how do you do, fellow Virginians?

  • Now I just got explain to my wife and kids

that we’re gonna be staying in someone’s basement.

(brooding music)

They tried to muzzle me by not allowing me to speak.

And when that didn’t work,

they tried to muzzle me with a mask.

I would thank you all

for allowing me to speak to you tonight,

but you try not to allow it, yet here I am.

Now you only give us 60 seconds, so let me get to the point.

You are all child abusers.

You prey upon impressionable children and indoctrinate them

into your insane ideological cult.

A cult, which holds many fanatical views,

but none so deranged as the idea

that boys are girls and girls are boys.

By imposing this vial nonsense on students

to the point even of forcing young girls

to share locker rooms with boys,

you deprive these kids of safety and privacy,

and something more fundamental too, which is truth.

If education is not grounded in truth than it is worthless.

Worse, it is poison.

You are poison.

You are predators.

I can see why you tried to stop us from speaking,

you know that your ideas are indefensible.

You silence the opposing side because you have no argument.

You can only hide under your beds,

like pathetic little gutless cowards

hoping we shut up and go away.

But we won’t.

I promise you that.

(dramatic music)

(gentle brooding music)

(keys clicking)

Johnny’s a boy with a big imagination.

One day, he’s a dog, the next day a crustation.

Johnny’s mom loves her son’s make-believe time.

You’re Johnny the Walrus till you change your mind.

  • Matt Walsh is out with a new children’s book.

The book is called “Johnny the Walrus”.

What is this about?

  • It sold out on Amazon in a few hours.

  • So I have embraced my true calling

as a, as a children’s author.

Hence the cardigan.

The book is about a little boy

who’s very imaginative and, and playful.

And like I have four kids and they all have an imagination.

  • Yeah.

  • And he likes to pretend to be different things.

And one day he pretends to be a walrus.

And unfortunately, his mother

is, is very progressive and thus confused.

And so she’s convinced by the internet and by society

that if your child is, is identifying as something,

then he really is that thing.

And so she tries to raise her child as a walrus,

as a sort of trans walrus, respecting his self identity.

One morning, he came downstairs barking and clapping,

wood spoons for tusks, and sock fins of flapping.

It spoons in his mouth.

He’s pretending to be a walrus.

(group laughing)

“I’m Johnny the Walrus,” he said with a roar.

  • Johnny the Walrus.

(speaking in foreign language)

  • [Phil] This is a hot topic.

  • [Addison] Yes.

  • [Phil] That’s a good thing, right?

  • Yeah, absolutely.

It’s good for us to have these conversations,

so people open their minds and relearn and unlearn

to what we’ve been taught.

  • So I want this to be a safe place to talk about and learn.

  • As you can see, there’s an ongoing evolution

of language and how people can identify.

  • My next guest author and conservative host

of Daily Wire’s “The Matt Walsh Show”

talking about his recently published children’s book

that has since been removed online

by a popular large retail chain.

Now Matt says, “Gender is not a social construct,

but rooted firmly in biology.”


  • True.

As human beings we have a sex, male or female,

that is a biological scientific fact.

Now gender is a linguistic term.

Words have gender, people don’t.

You can have whatever self-perception you want,

but you can expect me to take part in that self-perception

or to take part in this kind of charade,

this theatrical production.

You don’t get your own pronouns,

just like you don’t get your own prepositions

or your own, your own adjectives.

You know, it’s like, if I were to tell you,

my adjectives are handsome and brilliant

and no matter whatever you’re talking about me,

you have to describe me as handsome and brilliant

because that’s how I identify.

  • So you think it’s a delusion?

  • Well, this is one of the problems

with this left-wing gender ideology

is that no one who espouses it

can even tell you what these words mean.

Like what is a woman?

  • Well.
  • Can you tell me

what a woman is?

  • No, I can’t.

  • Womanhood is something that is an umbrella term.

It includes people who-

  • [Matt] That describes what?

  • People who identify as a woman.

  • What is that?

  • What’s to each their own.

Each woman, each man, each person

is gonna have a different relation

with their own gender identity and define it differently.

  • That, so that’s the problem.
  • You wanna reduce women,

you wanna reduce men down to maybe just their genetics,

our genitals.

  • No.

  • Our chromosomes, right?

That’s what you’re saying.

  • What you do is-

  • That’s what we are-

  • What, you, what you want to do is appropriate women.

You wanna appropriate womanhood.

  • Okay.
  • And turn it into

basically a costume that could be worn.

  • Joining us on stage is Dr. Suzy D’Enbeau

associate professor at Kent State University.

Dr. D’Enbeau how do you feel

those who oppose using pronouns

are taking the wrong approach in this conversation?

  • There’s the extreme approach

that you are admittedly taking.

Um, and then there’s also just ordinary people

that might not be comfortable with the language change.

  • She began by saying that my view is extreme.

Okay, so the view that every single person on earth

has held up until 15 seconds ago is extreme.

They are conflating gender and sex because on one hand,

they say, well, you got your biological sex,

but then your gender is whatever social construct.

But then they turn around

and say that trans women are women.

So a man who, who, who identifies

with the, with the, the gender,

the social construct of womanhood actually is a woman.

  • Part of me wants to ask why you care so much because-

  • Right.

  • It’s really not

that big of a deal.

  • Can I answer that?

I care about the truth.

So, so basic truth matters.

I wanna live in a society where people-

  • Okay, fine.
  • Care about the truth.

Um, I care about children and this, these insane ideas-

  • I do too.
  • About gender are being,

are being foist on kids.

Um, and that, that bothers me quite a bit.

I care about the women

who are having their opportunities stolen from them.

I care quite a bit, yeah.

  • I wanted us to have a safe place

to be able to talk about this.

And it seems like we should just keep the dialogue going

and, and hopefully find some middle ground.

(slow tempo brooding music)

(dramatic music)

(gentle brooding music)

  • What do you say to parents?

A parent comes to you and says,

my eight-year-old son is telling me he’s a girl.

  • Yeah, great.

You’re gonna have him do an experimental procedure

that creates the most suicidal ideation

of any other population

seven to 10 years after, you know, transition.

And here’s what I tell parents,

you don’t have the right to medically transition your child.

  • We have no research on long-term hormone use.

We will be seeing the first generation

of long-term hormone use.

And we already know, at least with 10 years of hormones

you’re giving yourself cancer.

  • [Matt] What’s your message to parents

who are trying to cope with this?

  • [Man] The first thing is to tell parents

that they’re not alone.

It is our responsibility as a parent

to be the frontline defense for our children.

And, and I know with my child,

a lot of people will say, was it worth it

‘cause you now seemingly have lost your child?

And I’ll say, yeah, but at least I’ve saved my conscience,

and my morals, and my convictions.

And when my child turns 25 and says,

Dad, where were you?

I’ll say I was there.

I was fighting as hard as I could.

I was not prepared to let this happen.

  • Does this really matter is, is another question so?

  • Matters for those who are getting double mastectomies

when they’re 16.

  • Why should we care

if we live in a society where gender is fluid?

  • Well, I cared because my government decided

that I had to call people by the terms that they were,

that they designated or I’d be subject to legal penalties.

It’s like, no, I’m not doing that.

I don’t care what your reason is.

You don’t get control of my tongue.

  • We live in a climate now

in which no one seems to care

about the safety of women and girls who are going through

a very developmentally challenging time in their lives.

They may not want to share spaces with their male peers.

I would not be surprised in a few years,

there will no longer be women’s sports.

It will literally be men’s sports and transgender sports.

  • The question being asked by the trans person

is, is a legitimate one, how can I be happy?

The answer being given by having my body transformed

to look like the other gender,

by having myself pumped full of hormones,

clearly isn’t working,

and we have to find a better

and the more humane way of dealing with individuals

who are struggling with gender dysphoria.

  • I have the utmost compassion

for people who suffer from gender dysphoria.

It’s a nightmare for them and their families.

The vast majority, up to 90% of kids

if they go through a normal puberty, they’re gonna be okay.

They will be at peace with their bodies,

and they will have avoided dangerous

and experimental medical interventions and surgeries.

  • [Man] Maybe we’re up against a battle here

up against a hill that perhaps,

you know, we’re not gonna necessarily win today,

but if we don’t pave the way for a win,

we’ll never get there.

  • So we’re going on this journey,

boys can be girls, girls can be boys,

men can be women, women can be men.

It makes me wonder what, what is a woman?

  • What is a woman?

A woman is someone who claims that is their identity.

It could be many things to many people.

  • I think the question really brings up

the, the fact that it is pretty relative, right?

That if you ask women across race, across identities,

across class, across culture,

you will get a different answer.

  • Some of it is, you know, based on biology,

some of it is based on hormones.

Some of it, it is based on what you wear

and, and how you present yourself.

  • A woman is not anything in particular.

It’s not, there’s no one particular thing.

  • There is not one particular thing.

  • A woman is someone who says that she is a woman

and transitions to be a woman.

  • Who says that she’s what?

Can you define the word woman without using the word woman?

  • I mean that’s actually kind of like,

it’s a curious question, but I.

  • We’ve been journeying across the country

asking people this question,

and almost nobody can answer it.

  • What is a woman?

  • [Matt] What is a woman?

  • Marry one and find out.


  • So I should go home and ask my wife, I guess.

  • Yeah. (gentle music)

(plane engine humming)

(water splashing)

  • Hey, I’ve been meaning to ask you something.

  • Uh-huh.

  • What is a woman?

  • An adult human female who needs help opening this?

(gentle upbeat music)

(lid pops)

(slow tempo gentle music)

(Matt chuckles)

(upbeat music)

  • Can you provide a definition for the word woman?

  • Can I provide a definition?

  • Mm-hmm, yeah.

  • I can’t.

  • You can’t?

  • Not in this-

  • Okay.

  • Context.

  • So you believe-

  • I’m not a biologist.

  • The meaning of the word

woman is so unclear and controversial

that you can’t give me a definition.

  • Senator, in my work as a judge,

what I do is I address disputes.

If there’s a dispute about a definition,

people make arguments,

and I look at the law-

  • All right.

  • And I decide.

  • Well-

  • So I’m not.

  • The fact that you can’t give me a straight answer

about something as fundamental as what a woman is

underscores the dangers of the kind of progressive education

that we are hearing about.

Just last week, an entire generation of young girls

watched as our taxpayer funded institutions,

permitted a biological man

to compete and beat a biological woman

in the NCAA swimming championships.

What message do you think this sends to girls

who aspire to compete and win in sports

at the highest levels?

  • Senator, I’m not sure what message that sends.

If, if you’re asking me

about the legal issues related to it,

those are topics that are being hotly discussed,

as you say, and-

  • Right.

  • Could come to the court.