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Transcript

welcome everyone uh we have another amazing  speaker today dr. zsofia clemens from hungary  

and she’s a neurobiologist the director  of the international center for medical  

nutritional intervention so welcome doctor how are  you i’m fine thank you for the invitation how are  

you doing i’m doing very well and uh first of all  i want to know exactly what is a neurobiologist  

and in addition to that how did you get involved  in what you’re doing right now did you have a  

personal health problem that led you into this or  how do you get so involved in what you’re doing

um so it’s a long story back to 10 years  

so the long story short uh yes  originally i am a biologist um and  

specifically uh i’m a neuroscientist but i  have always been working in a clinical setting  

um actually in top institutes in hungary  for neurology epilepsy psychiatry so  

this was the this was my environment but i  was always um mostly include involved in doing  

research work in clinical settings  in patients and then that involved  

analyzing brain activity brain  electrical activity in epilepsy patients  

sleep and how this relates to memory processes  sleep related memory consolidation for example  

so i i’ve been around this topic for several  years and then i started some research about  

vitamin d specifically actually i was involved  in the study that was the first of its kind  

giving vitamin d3 to epilepsy patients  who had uncontrolled seizures before  

and also had low vitamin d levels and we  looked at how normalizing vitamin d level  

changes seizures epileptic seizures so so so  this was the the first step towards doing towards  

the the nutritional field and then i became  involved in other aspects like brain structure  

related to vitamin d personality traits related  to vitamin d and there were many more around the  

vitamin d and then i stepped forward and i i  became interested in in nutrition as a whole  

and i know that there is there is  a lot of interest around vitamins  

specifically like vitamin d but i had  to realize that the nutritional context  

as a whole is is much more important than  single nutrients singular vitamins for example  

well that’s one of the reasons why i brought you  on because you’re in clinical practice which is  

a huge difference between someone just doing  research in a lab and never had any experience  

they just graduated in their phd and then they  they’ve never worked with actual patients so  

until you do that you really have not applied  these uh these ideas so yeah that’s a huge  

makes a huge difference because there are  a lot of material around the internet and  

it is very easy to set up theories and own ideas  and those suggestions but if it is not confirmed  

um by clinical data then it may not have a  validity that’s right i want to dive right into a  

very specific topic um intestinal permeability and  exactly what that is and maybe you can can we call  

that generally speaking leaky gut a problem  with like a leaky gut yes absolutely okay  

and in the relationship to autoimmune disease  since a good portion of our immune system is right  

past the border of our intestine um tell us a  little bit about um the the link between these two  

topics and there’s a lot a lot of questions that  i have i just want to maybe you can give a little  

introduction and then what occurs uh when you have  that break in that that’s those little junctions  

um so the interstellar permeability  is a is a membrane related phenomenon  

there are membranes all around within the body  that are connecting and separating uh species  

within the body and there are also others  that are separating us from outside the body  

and the intestinal membrane is is one of those  membranes and actually it is one of the most  

important ones because that is the primary  barrier between the content of our gut so  

actually the foods that we are eating and and the  rest of the body so that it is a primary location  

and and and a lot of things are determined  here if we are eating certain food items that  

we are not supposed to eat then a leaky gut and  increase intestinal permeability will develop  

and if it is already there then there are  certain food items that may be the same or  

maybe different from the ones that um actually  resulted in the leaky gut but these food items can  

go across the barrier and they  may get into the circulation  

and then if this has occurred they may form  certain complex with surface molecules of  

certain cells within our bodies and if such a  complex is created the immune system may start  

attacking that complex because the immune system  um regards this complex as as as a as a foreign  

molecule there’s a certain part of your immune  system that is actively trying to suppress  

autoimmune reactions right there’s a it’s a t  cell that’s um trying to prevent that i think  

the t helper cells aren’t they uh and somehow i  know for example in like uh psoriasis there’s a  

higher amounts of i guess it would be  like th17 giving you these cytokines  

and this cascade of inflammation and now you’re  you’re in a situation where your own tissue is  

attacking cells of the skin yeah so the the  the thing is that uh so far you keep eating  

those bad food items the whole process  will be going on so and and there is no  

other cue for this than eliminating certain food  items from your diet and then the whole process  

can attenuate and um i i’m not a scientist at the  molecular level i i cannot tell you whether it is  

uh t hat or cells or not or to what extent there  are these are involved or not and i guess nobody  

else can really tell this because nobody  looked at specifically a certain dietary  

context so that there may be a very different  situation if you are eating a high carb diet and  

another one if you are fasting or doing a low carb  diet so it is the diet itself that that matters  

and you do not have to think about t harper  says or you do not have to be an immunologist  

phd or whatever right the um the interesting  the only point i brought that up is because  

there is one nutrient that tends to suppress  that reaction which is vitamin d again we come  

back to vitamin d which is interesting because  it tends to modulate inflammation in your body  

question i have as far as the  you have a very specific um  

uh diet or eating plan which is very  beneficial to people with autoimmune  

and it’s um it’s not carnivore but it’s a kind  of a paleolithic version of keto um explain that  

uh it is sorry just going back to the  vitamin d point um the thing is that i  

don’t believe that vitamin d alone is enough  to counteract the inflammation process or  

psoriasis it is the elimination of certain food  items that really matters if you do not eliminate  

then then you can have a skyrocketing  vitamin d level and it will not help  

absolutely and that’s the problem with most people  they like they don’t change their basic eating  

they think a pill or a drug is going to do it but  that that’s like it’s kind of an altered sequence  

you first have to fix the what you put in the body  before you even deal with some of these remedies  

yes okay so the other question uh how how this  diet differs from the classical ketogenic diet  

yes this is your question yes so um it it is only  the ratio between meat that protein fat and um

carbohydrate that determines whether you are  entering in ketosis or not it this is very simple  

actually it is very simple to induce ketosis  if you eat the right amount and the right ratio  

of these make macronutrients but um creating  keto this is not not enough it is not enough  

it is enough for something if you are  aim if you are aiming at losing weight  

improving body composition improving blood sugar  hypertension then ketosis alone may be enough  

but if you have an autoimmune condition or if you  have cancer then ketosis alone will not be enough  

i’m not saying may not it will not be enough right  

and that’s something that that you have to keep  in mind that any ketogenic diet will not be enough  

if you are struggling with a specific  autoimmunity or cancer and this is because  

the composition of your diet also matters  not just on macronutrient composition  

and it is only a diet that is based on meat fat  and organ meats that is effective in in combatix  

combating such conditions if you are eating a  classical version of ketogenic diet let’s put  

it in this way that is containing vegetable oils  and dairy which is the case with the classical  

ketogenic diet or there are other mct oil based  and then the other ones that all uh are based on  

unhealthy vegetable oils and dairy let me let  me define the classical for those people that  

don’t know there’s a lot of initial research on  using what’s called a classical ketogenic diet  

for epilepsy in these children where they’re  they’re not looking at the the quality of the  

the product so you so you’re doing like this  mayonnaise and whipping cream and all these  

i consider uh bad quality foods and uh even though  even though it’s uh low carb it’s going to be a  

problem go ahead yeah yeah exactly and here we  come back to the intestinal permeability issue  

because such a diet the classical ketogenic diet  is not able to normalize intestinal permeability  

and if you do not normalize intestinal  permeability the whole process will be going on  

and and this is not out of theory what i am  saying we see this being measured in our patients  

in course of their diseases is there any um  like there’s two there’s two things going  

on you have the elimination of things that  irritate and cause inflammation in the gut  

but you also have is there any direct um healing  factor of either certain organ meats or saturated  

fats on the intestinal lining itself no no these  are separate things so so there are there are  

certain food items like milk vegetable oil grains  nitrates that are creating intestinal permeability  

medicines as well or anti-inflammatory drugs  have a huge effect they are creating intestinal  

permeability their leaky gut and if you have the  leaky gut and go on eating grains milk potato and  

so on then that will create inflammation in the  body that we create an increase in the intestine  

in the inflammatory factors so the the  the inflammation is is the end result  

and you cannot interfere with vitamin d  you can only interfere with elimination  

so when you when you switch your  diet to what you’re doing right now  

um you’re you’re eliminating the um  the irritation the stimulation of this  

this inflammatory process we are eliminating  those factors that maintain the leaky gut  

and as a result there will be a decrease in the  inflammation and the symptoms and eventually  

curing disease love it and so can you give my  viewers an idea of like examples of types of foods  

because you’re going to be doing you’re not going  to be doing low fat protein you want to do high  

higher fat proteins what would be some  examples of that so um speaking of cancer  

you know not this is not aimed at your  general audience maybe but specifically  

those who have an already existing disease  have undergone chemotherapy radiotherapy so  

so the possibilities for them are very narrow  okay so for these people um there is a core diet

which only includes meat fats and organ  meats also autoimmune patients right  

also autoimmune patients yes so so they  they do not really have another choice  

we would love to uh pleasing patients saying  then that you can introduce this and that and  

um but it wouldn’t um be in  the interest of the patient

such patients needs is to restore normal  intestinal barrier because they do not have time  

to lose they they have to do it as quickly as  possible yeah and once that’s done then and  

reach there i used to say they they baseline they  they own has baseline and condition is stabilized  

there without medications symptoms and so on  then can they can think about or we can consider  

allowing for introducing um certain food items  but this shouldn’t be grains this shouldn’t be  

nitrates and a lot of things shouldn’t be and  what um like you would probably find some higher  

quality grass-fed maybe fatty sausage or liver  or other foods that are higher in obviously fat  

because it’s it’s actually i find it’s really  hard in in the us to find fatty protein now days  

at the store it’s like you have to go out of your  way to because everything is so lean and um yeah  

you know this is absolutely a cultural thing  this is not a problem in europe you know we  

grown up eating crazy bread which is  obviously not the best combination of foods  

but fat was incorporated heavily in our  diet this is not the case in america because  

fear has been feared for so long time  that you didn’t you know came across um  

and so this is a cultural thing i think  we have a lot of good food items sausages  

that are already containing eat fat in a good  ratio and or bloody sausage or or many other  

traditional food items and and most of these food  ensembles are coming from from pig pork um which  

in here in central europe is is is more widespread  than the beef actually interesting it is also high  

higher quality than it is the pork is in the  us i can imagine yeah because i uh i actually  

consume a lot of pork and i know a lot of people  are saying well that pork is dirty well i don’t  

i don’t buy it from the grocery store i do  the farmers markets where people that i know  

they they they don’t feed them certain things but  pork is higher in fat it’s higher in nutrients  

actually b1 i feel better on pork especially pork  sausage what um what about the fish in seafood

um so the the diet of pkd core diet is based  on meat fat and organs from four-legged animals  

okay specifically because it is more complete  in nutrients as compared to the fish or any  

fish or seafood so there are certain food there  are certain minerals that fish is very rich in  

but meat fat and organs are containing the  entirety of the nutrients and at the same time not  

um usually not as polluted um as the fish or the  or the seafood fascinating and and uh what um um  

when you take your clients you probably have  people coming in flying in from around the world  

probably and when you see them um they have all  sorts of autoimmune issues and um what um what are  

some of the barriers that you run into i mean this  is a probably a drastic change for a lot of people  

are but i’m sure that they’re motivated and  they’re they’re like hey listen just tell me what  

to do and i’ll do it versus the typical person  that is you know not very motivated yes they’re  

they’re more motivated than than average patients  so they are already familiar of the concept so

and and many are coming from the carnivore society  so they are already not eating a lot of food items  

um it is only the the the ratio and the food  amount that that should be fine-tuned and um  

cutting out a few other additional stuff that  that may not be that may may not allow for a  

perfect recovery but we are in content mostly  online specifically in these times oh good how  

would you differentiate carnivore versus what  you’re recommending which is um paleo ketogenic  

so the carnivore diet  

in most cases not resulting in ketosis so those  who are following an undefined carnivore diet  

are still running their body on carbohydrates  instead of fats despite not eating carbohydrates  

tell me about that but explain that yeah so um  an average people on a carnivore diet is eating  

800 to 1.5 800 grams to 1.5 kilograms of meat  or something like that which is a huge amount  

that put a lot of pressure on your digestive  system because the volume is is too much  

um you are not in ketosis you are still  producing glucose from the protein that you eat  

and overall it is it is an ineffective way  of obtaining energy so i want to cl i want  

to clarify just for my viewers that even  though there’s no carbohydrates in protein  

if you have excessive amounts the body is going to  take a good portion of that and break it down into  

glucose yes because there is  no other way to obtain energy  

you can have energy either from carbohydrates  or fat right protein is not good for energy  

and we need the energy what you eat is  basically for uh covering your energy needs  

it is also a very small amount of meat that  you have to eat to cover the protein need  

okay so um so that’s a big difference you  have um it’s way too much protein and then  

let’s i’ll just let you continue we’re  going to mention something about the fat  

um sorry i didn’t get your question uh i i cut  you off right in the middle you were talking about  

um the difference between carnivore  and um what you’re recommending

um so so the difference is that if you are  following a carnivore diet you are still  

running your body on glucose despite the fact  that you are not eating carbohydrates at all right  

so it is not resulting in ketosis you will not  benefit um you will not have the benefits that  

are coming from the ketosis alone you will have  the benefits of not eating plant food items but  

that’s only that that’s only half of your benefits  you also need to be in ketosis because if not this  

this this state is not sustainable in the long run  and this is what is happening with with patients  

initially they they feel relieved from  from their symptoms and they start  

enjoying having more energy or skin symptoms going  away so there are certain benefits for sure but as  

time is going on um the negative consequences will  prevail over the positive ones you you they will  

be running out of energy they will be fatigued  they will have digestive issues diarrhea um  

a dry skin and and there are many more that  develop over a longer period of time interesting  

so so bringing down the protein to what what  do you normally recommend is actual protein  

um so um we used to do um a  two week follow-up for patients  

because there is no there is no one general  suggestion that it is much less than  

people used to eat okay and then and then we are  in a closed loop with patients on a day by day  

feedback they are doing home measurements they  are sending their home measurements every day  

and then we are giving a suggestion day by day  you should be decreasing you should be increasing  

so so this is a matter of fine tuning i like that  by the end of the two weeks um they will they will  

end up having um ideally good amount of food and  good ratio and then as far as the fat you have to  

raise the fat or else what else are you going to  raise so what’s the ratio maybe a protein to fat  

so speaking of dry matter content it is two to  one two for the fat one for the protein and that’s  

weight that’s not calories this is dry matter  content okay macronutrients if we translate it  

to food that is about 100 grams of meat an  average meat that goes along with 35 grams of  

added fat so this is the basic ratio because  when you’re eating protein or or animal  

meat in its normal form does it come with the  ratio of that much fat or do you have to add  

fat you have to add fat right so you can’t just  you can’t just go on what nature is product  

because we actually have to put your body into  a different but nature is also providing fat it  

is just not entrenched in some cultures you know  interesting just because you do not see fat itself  

at the butcher it doesn’t mean that nature is  not providing the fat you know right and we’re  

not talking about avocados even coconut oil we’re  talking about like talo and um what about ghee  

ghee is a form of dairy that is  containing milk proteins that  

is triggering autoimmune processes even  when you clarify it and get rid of the  

solid materials yes but because you cannot  get rid of all the molecules okay okay not  

have a laboratory but it is simply technically  not possible so you have to go with vitello

or in in hungary you can do smoked  slab which is which is the actual uh  

fat coming from the actual fat tissue or the pork  and there are a few others you know also you have  

something like bacon but the problem with bacon  is when you fry it like all the fat goes away

yes you have to eat the fat that goes away right  right and so for those people are listening and  

that are confused because it may conflict  with some other videos that i’ve done  

we’re talking about people  that are addressing that have  

intestinal damage autoimmune other conditions  that are going to react with this but  

so i just want to clarify that um so can  you give us a couple more examples on  

like let’s say organ meats um would that have  enough fat or like maybe a pet pate right  

what pate which is uh kind of a yeah if you  prepare uh based on your own recipe then it can  

contain enough fat of course yeah so so the fat  is uh predominantly coming from the visceral fat  

of the animal and and for example beef is not  containing enough fat if if if you take the  

whole animal specifically those breeds um that  are designed to be lean that’s for sure so so  

you have to specifically go for the uh for the  fed that is cut of the of the meat that is sold  

for for other clients right right um now let’s say  someone has autoimmune there’s a i know there is  

a test that’s called i guess peg peg400 which um  is a lab test that you you drink something it gets  

filtered out through the kidneys or the intestines  and the kidneys i guess and you can pick up  

some data tell me tell me a little bit about that  actually um this is this is a this is an old test  

you can you can find the references uh  in the literature back to 1970s 80s 90s  

so it has been used in in in in the medical world  or at least somewhere in the medical world but um  

later on they they forgot about it uh mainly  because they didn’t have a solution so anybody  

they measured had high intestinal permeability  and they asked themselves what can we do we can’t  

do anything about it so let’s stop measuring  it so actually the methodology was was given

and we started using the test  there is a laboratory in london  

the laboratory is called biolab and we  first collaborated with this laboratory  

we send measurements to them or the  samples but then we started doing our own  

own measurements and in order to do so we have  we have furthered the methodology behind it uh  

a critical point of the measurement is clarifying  the sample and and and this is uh this is a very  

critical point a critical methodological point so  we have been working a lot at this point but now  

the the methodology is fathered and it is working  very well so patients um can actually buy they can  

can purchase this test even from the u.s they do  not even have to come to hungary or anywhere else

they are getting the test material that is  containing the pegging in a small container  

they have to drink the small container and then  they have to collect the urine across six hours  

and then a small sample should be sent back to  to our laboratory and then we do the measurement  

and and the recovery of the peg in the urine  uh the percentage of the recovery will show  

uh the extent of the intestinal permeability so  basically you have these um compounds that are  

going through the body and if there’s a hole  through your intestine you’re going to have  

more of them on the other side versus less and you  could be able to get feedback on what’s happening  

in your gut yeah so so normally there should be  no uh bad molecules going through the intestine  

or at least very minimal and if there is if  there are peg molecules crossing the barrier  

getting into the circulation being excreted in  the urine it means that there is a permeability  

and it is not only about having permeability  or not having a permeability it is 11 different  

size of peg molecules that is to be found  in the solution so it it it is giving you um

a resolution across the molecular sizes so at  the end we have a we have a certain curve or or  

pattern of the recovery percentages for each of  the specific molecular ranges that is carrying  

information and so far the curve is higher  than uh the range that is regarded as normal  

it is it it is uh regarded as the patient having  a industrial permeability and it is expected  

that uh with following the pkd the intestinal  permeability curve goes back to the normal range  

or actually closer to the low end of the normal  range if it is not happening then that there’s  

still something that is preventing this and and  and this is where the the small details may matter  

because there are small food items or even  medicines or even certain supplements that  

can hinder the normalization of the intestinal  permeability fascinating i i recently looked  

bought and i’m looking through and studying a book  that is talking about vaccine-induced autoimmunity

what’s your quick summary on the  

people getting a vaccine and all of a  sudden ending up with a autoimmune condition

yes that’s uh that’s a big topic and i do think  that there is definitely a connection because by  

injecting the vaccine right into the body you  are bypassing this actual intestinal barrier  

in the same way as having very high intestinal  permeability uh but but this material is is is  

getting into your body into your tissues and if it  is already there and that can provoke autoimmunity  

and and this is this is something that is  frequently uh the case uh with the sudden onset  

type one diabetes in children or suddenly crohn’s  disease epilepsy or many other brain conditions  

and the importance is underestimated by  the medical community but this is happening  

yes there’s certain um i this book was written  in india so it hasn’t reached america uh but  

the other other question is um you have  vegetable oils like the soy oil the corn  

oil the canola the cottonseedle that  is permeated through our entire food  

chain and which is highly inflammatory because  it’s omega-6 not to mention the quality and  

it oxidizes and it creates a lot of inflammation  uh do you think that’s a pretty big factor

um it may be that it is not the fatty acid  um specifically or the fat specifically uh  

but other components that are coming from that  specific plant could it be the glyphosate in  

the gmo or or other factors no because that  that is an additive uh i i’m thinking of  

the the lactine content of the plants so  any any plant is containing thousands and  

ten thousand some different lectins and some  of some of them are more dangerous are more

more dangerous for intestinal barrier  than others like the soil so is the one  

that is heavily triggering industrial permeability  

and there are others for example that are coming  from the carrot which are not that dangerous or  

do not have such a big effect but it is it is  the lactin um component or or the ones that  

are coming from the night shades that are really  bad for okay conditions interesting um what about  

um there’s a patient that i know a while  ago that had um they didn’t have any  

necessarily problems with autoimmune but all of a  sudden they did a colon cleanse and they wiped out  

everything in their gut for about i think seven  days and they ended up with psoriasis um so  

i guess there’s certain factors in  your your microbes that actually  

protect you when you lose those it can create  an imbalance um so actually these screens are  

are not too healthy i have to tell you they are  using these vegetable or fruit-based juices right  

and and while they are doing this they  are not eating the the right foods  

so the combination is what is resulting in a  deterioration of the conditions and also if you  

have an already existing disease it is very likely  that you have certain nutrient deficiencies if you  

start doing fasting or juicing which is something  very similar then your nutrients will be further  

depleted and and you may end up in a in a  condition that is worse than the original ones  

wow wow this has been awesome go ahead no really  there is no no need for overcomplicating things  

you just have to follow the right diet and then  you do not have to take away anything you you  

shouldn’t add anything once you are back to  the diet that is right uh designed for you  

then that is the way to go and people are obsessed  with different uh you know techniques and um  

approaches that that sound good at the level  of the world but that in in reality they they  

usually do not work i totally agree well  i want to thank you so much for uh giving  

me this valuable data and giving everyone  else this very amazing new viewpoint i think  

what i’m going to do is i want to put some links  down below of your your website and how people can  

get a hold of you and as well as maybe i’ll even  put a link down for that test so people can get  

more information about that test as well i will  send it to you thank you very much oh thank you