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hey guys I have an exciting guest Zach

bitter is here zach is an endurance

athlete ultra endurance athlete a

hundred miles he runs an incredible

world and American record holder so

thanks for doing this

Zach and welcome to my little interview

here yeah thank you for having me on

absolutely does that’s gonna be one of

our speakers guys at the summit so I’m

really excited to pick his brain and

find out how the heck that he runs a

hundred miles and and not only just

running on her mouths but taking the

record and also you actually in the this

is an America right but in the world

you’ve you’ve taken some records too

right yeah I have an American record for

a hundred miles and that’s just the time

the time it takes to run hundred miles

and that’s 11 hours 40 minutes and 55

seconds I also was able to kind of

double dip a bit with that sales of a

world record which is distance run in 12

hours so I’ve run 100 1.7 miles than the

12 hour time frame so ultra running

communities goofy enough where they have

distance races and timed event races and

all kinds of other things so it’s a

that’s kind of where I’ve been my niche

has been the last few years Wow so a

couple things I want to know like that’s

this is like a set on average 7-minute

mile right yeah so that’s like your

truck and you’re not like jogging slow

really good pace and then how do you

know when you have to like do you just

go by thirst and hunger like how do you

know you have to eat or drink before you

kind of like I’m gonna pass out yeah you

know it’s it’s interesting I guess you

know that’s definitely been something

that’s changed for me like before I had

ever done a hundred mile race I done a

whole bunch of 50 mile races and one

thing I kind of noticed was that in

order to kind of feel decent or feel

like I wasn’t gonna kind of crash and

burn I would have to take in tons and

tons of carbohydrates like to the tune

of 400 calories an hour and a lot of it

is pretty simple because you know you’re

moving so it’s hard to take in a complex

energy source set during the exercise

and that kind of catches up to your your

gut is still trying to process all that

and your body needs the energy

presumably but your gut has to also

handle it and well one thing I noticed

is like by the end of those races you

just kind of feel bloated and kind of

disgusting and it was like you know kind

of a question in the back of my mind I

was always like well how do how do you

do that for 50 more miles or you know

further yet and you know that wasn’t the

only thing I noticed which kind of led

me to a different approach but um you

know what I do now I mean since I’m

following a high fat approach is I can

get away with a lot less fuel while I’m

running because I’ve essentially tapped

into a much larger fuel tank which is

body fat and the way I like to view that

is even at the leanest state like you

know an athlete’s has got a much bigger

body fat reserve and they do glycogen

stores so if you can teach your body to

burn a high level of body fat you

minimize the amount of carbohydrates you

need and then you also bypass the

digestive system when you’re you know

taking fuel right doctor body as opposed

to through eating food in the in the

event itself so what I found is just a

lot of trial and error and workouts and

races and things like that is that if I

am gonna race you know an ultra marathon

it’s gonna be kind of a peak efforts

I’m usually aiming for about 100 to 200

calories an hour and then depending on

the weather will depend a little bit how

I kind of structure that so like if it’s

hot enough or even kind of room

temperature which is actually considered

kind of warm for running I’ll tie a lot

of those calories to the hydration and

I’ll just drink to thirst and try to

make sure you know whoever’s prune for

me is putting in the right amount of

fuel into that and usually I’ll do that

with like a carbohydrate source and that

being similar to the reason I gave

before where the gleich my glycogen

stores or the small tank that’s someone

I potentially need to reload in the

event itself I think that I can take

care of that afterwards if I get off the

lean from running a hundred mile race I

can just you know add a bunch of butter

to the steak after the race and catch

back up on that post

race and worry about you know that sort

of thing then

but yeah you get pretty intuitive I

think and one of the benefits of having

what I would consider a very clean

healthy biologically appropriate diet is

like my body is pretty good at telling

me when I’m hungry and when I’m thirsty

and I don’t necessarily fight that so if

I do get hungry or something during

during the race or thirsty I trust that

it means I need something and then I

guess you also have to at some point use

the bathroom yeah the efficiency is part

of the variables that come into the

ultrarunning stuff and you know at my

back past in the event called desert

Soulstice track invitational where I

actually broke that hundred mile

American record I think I stopped twice

to use the bathroom for probably a total

of sixty to ninety seconds but other

than that I was moving the entire day so

some of it is just kind of playing a

balancing act and act and I think that’s

where where it also kind of becomes

really important to be in tune with your

body because I want to hydrate enough to

not lose performance but I don’t want to

hydrate to the degree where I’m stopping

every you know a couple miles to use the

bathroom or something like that so I

literally dialed in that day so that’s

interesting now you’re competing against

a lot of guys that are doing the

carbo-loading thing right mm-hmm yeah

doing carbs right and they’re not doing

high fat they’re doing probably well I

don’t know what they’re doing but

they’re just doing a lot of

carbohydrates um are these guys stopping

very frequently urinating and like

because of fluids uh I don’t know if

they’re necessarily you know the people

are taking in fuel and all sorts of

stuff some people are taking in like gel

packs or like bars and things like that

so they’re not necessarily tying their

nutrition to hydration and you know one

of the reasons I’ve like this approach

is because that is a huge logistic and

ultram running like you know even even

guys like myself and guys like Jeff

browning he’s another kind of high fat

ultra marathon runner you know we’re

still consuming calories during the

event

but that logistic is just way more

manageable and a lot smaller to kind of

to kind of work through during an event

than say like I was earlier when I was

taking in easily twice as much

more and then you know that’s pretty

typical I think for a lot of the other

athletes that our high-carb is that kind

of three to four hundred calories an

hour type of a format so um yeah I mean

I think you just set yourself up for

more potential problems you know in the

hundred mile distance there’s no

shortage of stories of people getting

sidelined at Mile 7080 and puking up

gels and sports drinks and all that sort

of stuff so you know it’s a pretty wide

range of what people can tolerate some

were better at it than others and I I

suspect that the folks that stick around

on the carb wagon are the ones that just

happen to be able to tolerate it a

little more than others and some people

kind of come over to the high fat world

just because they’ve had those

experiences where they realize I need to

take in this much with my current diet

but I can’t so um you know that usually

kind of is a good indicator that you

need to change something and there’s

other variables to that kind of affect

that like heat plays a big role if it

gets hot out it becomes harder to digest

and you know your body’s trying to use

blood volume for a variety different

purposes so it’s kind of use it for

copious amounts of digestion as well as

taking away from some of the other

performance-based functions and you know

it’s just a lot of kind of interesting

aspects to the sport that kind of you

know it’s all running but it’s just a

lot more variables when you’re out there

all day long versus four no half an hour

or an hour or even two hours yeah I mean

when you train for a 100-mile race how

many miles do you run every day to train

or do you run every other day how do you

structure your training yeah you know

it’s interesting I think in the

endurance world specifically I think a

lot of times you’ll see someone like

Nayla race and you know people will look

at what do they do to build up and look

at those eight weeks kind of leading

into into the race and they’ll put a lot

of stock and what they did in those

eight weeks when in reality you know

most guys and gals who are breaking

records or you know competing at a high

level you know they’ve got years and

years if not decades of running

experience that they’ve kind of been

building off of so you know I’ve

certainly kind of fit into that mold

where

been doing kind of a very high volume

training approach for quite some time

now and it does Evan flow throughout the

year as I’m kind of recovering from

events or recovering from big training

sessions and stuff like that but the way

I do it is I kind of periodized things

so like after an a race I’ll kind of

shut it down I’ll give myself like at

least two weeks if I need it to not do

anything structure usually my body comes

back around quite a bit quicker than

that and then I’ll just kind of just do

some kind of light running and build up

start building up just kind of low

intensity stuff and I’ll work up to

usually well over a hundred miles a week

then I’ll start adding in some specific

stuff depending on what race I’m doing

next and what race I’m preparing for you

know a lot of times I’ll try to keep the

workouts that are least specific to the

race pace kind of earlier in the

training so once I have that aerobic

base kind of established I’ll be doing

maybe some shorter intervals earlier in

the training session some shorter speedy

stuff like that and then as I get closer

to the race itself I’ll be going putting

a lot more efforts and energy into like

making sure I get in the long runs which

you know for me usually are in the

neighborhood of thirty sometimes 50

miles in length and then like longer

interval or tempo type sessions so you

know I’ve had a variety of different

kind of peak mileage weeks when I broke

the American record I had a three week

block where I think I had like 130 mile

150 mile and 170 mile week somewhere

right around there and then that kind of

led into my taper and that was what I

would call wonder maybe a more

aggressive high mileage training blocks

I’ve done other ones where it’s a little

lower where I averaged closer to around

120 miles for maybe a little longer time

and just kind of put a little more stock

in consistency as opposed to one really

really big block but yeah you know it’s

a when you when you back out and look at

the year as a whole I probably average

or at least I have historically averaged

a little over a hundred miles a week

when you add in all the rest days and

the big training days and stuff like

that so it’s definitely time consuming

no matter how you kind of look at it

yeah and then the day before do you do

anything you’re not training the day

before I’ll do some light running

usually I’ll definitely it’s all

relative at at that point I think you

know like if you want a taper you know

I’ll scale things back but I won’t

necessarily completely shut it down

because I don’t want it’s a it’s a fine

line but I don’t wanna like teach my

body that like I haven’t been doing

anything either I just want to give it

enough rest to be ready for the race

itself so a lot of times that means I’m

just about 2 or 3 weeks out kind of

cutting down volume and intensity

gradually throughout that time frame

until I get to the race itself so you

know I’ve done as much as an hour easy

run before the before a hundred mile

race but I have taken off completely too

a lot of times that last week it’s a lot

of listening to my body I’m feeling

sharp already then you know I’d probably

be a little less some less aggressive

with like off days and still get some

lights to let some light running in and

kind of keep that that locomotion intact

and then as far as what you’re eating

the day before are you are you having a

little more carbs or two just to build

up a little glycogen Reserve or you are

you just kind of going what do you feel

like cuz I mean it’s like I don’t know

yeah it’s interesting I think I’m you

know the the carbo-loading phenomenon I

guess has I think gotten really goofy

over the last few years where it’s

almost become I think more of a

celebration than it has an actual like

tactical thing where you know people

will go to these big pasta feeds and

stuff just as part of the event itself

and you know I’ve kind of tried to put

the carbo-load back into perspective to

what I think it was originally intended

to do so for me like carb planning for

an event actually starts probably about

seven days he’s out six or seven days

out in the way I kind of structure it is

I’ll spend the first four to five days

of that week going really low carb like

kind of clinical ketogenic or almost

zero carb type of approach and

Murli just trying to set myself up to be

like really heavy fat-burning in those

days and it makes a lot of sense because

like I said before that’s when my

training is kind of ramping down so I

really don’t have a whole lot of need

for carbohydrate from a training

standpoint at that point and it also

kind of I think that cycle will make my

my glycogen stores pretty sensitive to

anything I do take in the two days or so

before the race so then when I get if

it’s like a Saturday race maybe Thursday

night

I’ll start kind of sneaking some carbs

back in with dinner and then some carbs

during the meals the day before and

things like that and you know for me a

lot of that a lot of the ones that have

worked well for me are like sweet

potatoes fairies melons

raw honey and that that sort of type of

carbohydrate is usually what you’ll find

kind of on my on my plate or in my tea

or whatever alongside some of the fats

and proteins that would be more typical

Wow laughing hey guys we’re talking to

Zack bitter and he’s going to be one of

the speakers at the summit and there’s a

couple of things that you told me we’re

not going to get into them but you’re

right now you’re experimenting

researching on your own body about the

proteins in relationship to quantities

of protein and ratios of carbs and you

and you’re finding some interesting

things so you’re gonna be sharing that

right you’re gonna talk about protein

which is kind of like a new territory

because it’s like there’s not a lot of

people that do what you do in the area

of and eat what you eat so you could

just basically read a book you’re kind

of creating this thing as you go and

you’re experimenting on your body

because if it doesn’t work you’re gonna

find out that’s simply because there’s

no way you’re gonna last you know that

long to do this so I think it’s tough

it’s like your body is kind of a great

tool to get feedback to see what was

working what’s not and then you’re also

going to be talking about electrolytes

and I think you also did you do that

interview with doctor Noakes yeah we

actually just released that one to

public it’s episode 29 of the human

performance outliers podcast folks our

interest

did and we dove into electrolytes

hydration as well as nutrition on that

one so yeah it’s an interesting

discussion central governor theory - I

suppose which I guess plays a role in

hydration and electrolytes perhaps oh

yeah

I mean like he’s a guy that started the

whole carbo thing with the I think it’s

called the GU right and he was like

promoting that until him I guess three

friends got diabetes and this is the

problem we this is not good and then I’m

not sure oh yeah he told me he was the

whole water thing like you he’s you know

it was like hardly when he started out

they weren’t even drinking any water and

then they started drinking a lot of

water people were dying and then he

wrote a book on it’s called water logged

correct yeah yeah so because guys if you

don’t if you’ve never heard about

there’s a condition called hyponatremia

which is basically you’re drinking too

much water and you’re depleting your

sodium which you need for muscle

physiology and your heart and your brain

can swell and your heart can you can

basically get a heart attack so people

have died so there’s a there’s a

technology to electrolytes and fluids

and at the summit zach is gonna talk a

little bit about that so I’m excited

about that and I was gonna I won’t take

too much of your time but I wanted to

find out like here you are you’re gonna

run you may be like you’re gonna run on

a flat surface on a track and you’re

gonna go hundred miles how do you

confront doing this repetitive it seemed

like it’d be so boring for hour after

hour running the same thing over like

how do you mentally do that like I don’t

know yeah you know it’s a little

different and in in the United States I

think like with ultramarathon in the

trail scene has kind of been the one

that’s picked up the most momentum in

terms of popularity and one of the

appealing reasons for that I think is

because your scenery is constantly

changing you’re seeing some of the most

beautiful areas of the country and

you can kind of Bank some mental energy

on that that you’re kind of experiencing

this this area but you hop on a 400

meter high school track you don’t have

that luxury necessarily you’re kind of

completely exposed and you’re gonna say

this see the same thing over and over

all day long

so I think that approach certainly from

a mental side is is quite a bit

different where on one hand logistically

it’s super easy so you can have peace of

mind knowing that you can get whatever

you want every 400 meters you there’s

always people there the environments

never gonna throw you for a kerb for the

most part - some weird weather system

coming through so you kind of have a lot

of those things that you can you can

rely on being consistent but then you

know you have to be able to put up with

the monotony so for me it’s always been

like you know doing a lot of kind of I

guess the best way to maybe describe is

zoning out and it’s like it’s more or

less just kind of getting a rhythm like

if you if I do the training right and I

kind and I have an idea where my fitness

is that which I have a fairly easy time

doing in the train is not necessarily

easy but the you know becoming in tune

with where I’m at is pretty easy because

I’ve just done it so many times now

where I can almost just kind of get in a

rhythm and I’m not necessarily fixating

too heavily on on pace I can kind of

just dial in an intensity or a perceived

effort and then just kind of more or

less daydream or try to picture myself

somewhere else other than the track it

does get a little more difficult near

the end because you know as you can

imagine 80 miles into a hundred mile run

you know your body’s getting getting a

little worn down and you’re getting a

little tired of being out there and your

mind starts to kind of convince your

body that it needs to stop or slow down

so it’s a little more difficult to

really hit the splits intuitively and

then you kind of have to pay a little

more attention to kind of watching your

pace which for me tends to kind of slow

the clock down in my mind because then

I’m just you know looking at it more

often and that’s where it kind of gets a

little more difficult you have to push

through some of the some of the mental

hurdles do you have tips like for me

what seems

probably would happen if I would have

all of a sudden my left knee will start

talking and like hurting and then my

shoulder will do you have like things

that kind of just turn on like on your

body until you just run into all this

and they’ll go away just push through it

yeah to some degree you know it’s it is

kind of interesting a lot of that I

think the physical whole this physical

toll it almost hits a plateau and then

it’s just about being able to kind of

keep pushing through that kind of low

dull pain or that low doll-like

annoyance I guess is of a way to say it

you know I usually try to compare it to

you know the opposite whereas like

someone’s racing like a three-kilometer

a 5 kilometer race you know they they’re

their peace of mind is that it’s over

relatively quick but the hard part is

it’s kind of a sharp pain it’s like it’s

just it’s really intense pain that you

don’t want to last too long whereas with

a hundred miles it’s like it’s not

anything really drastic that you

wouldn’t be able to handle for a few

minutes at a time but over the close for

hours and hours it kind of eats away at

you and it kind of way I describe it

depletes your mental energy and then you

you just develop less patience to be

able to tolerate it and I think that’s

where you know the whole mental side of

the sport becomes that much more

important because a lot of it comes down

to you know how much are you willing to

kind of push through versus other days

where you’re maybe not able to push

through as much Wow interesting

awesome well I’m excited to have you at

the event and so I hope you guys could

make it

it’s going to be this October 13 14 so

I’ll put some information down below so

thank you so much Zach